**CAR OF THE WEEK! Friday 18/05/12 Carroll Shelby Special**

[Ross]

We were driving this car in CRAP casual racing for this weeks time trial around Spa. I managed a 1:40.900 on Sports soft tires with everything else stock.

 

[McClarenDesign]

We were driving this car in CRAP casual racing for this weeks time trial around Spa. I managed a 1:40.900 on Sports soft tires with everything else stock.

Think I'll try this tonight. Eau Rouge should be entertaining.

 

[Ross]

Think I'll try this tonight. Eau Rouge should be entertaining.

It was, going round with traction control off is very difficult. Eventually, I had to give in and put TC on 1

 

[Woodski_427]

We were driving this car in CRAP casual racing for this weeks time trial around Spa. I managed a 1:40.900 on Sports soft tires with everything else stock.

The Shelby Cobra?

 

[Ross]

The Shelby Cobra?

That's the one!

 

[McClarenDesign]

that's the one!

abs?

 

[Ross]

abs?

Automatic
Sports Soft
Traction Control 1
SRF Off
ASM Off
Active Steering Off
ABS 1

 

[McClarenDesign]

Stolen from another thread, but still relevant.

It would depend on exactly what was sitting under the hood (the specs are pretty correct for a street GT350, but the number you have is a bit off for a GT350R), but I've had so many people argue with me over power figures of the old muscle cars that I gave up so I'm not giving out whatever exact numbers I may or may not know. My source is probably an anonymous guy I know who used to work for Shelby as an engineer or a dyno sheet from a car someone in my family had, and yet someone will sit here and tell me my information is wrong because an internet site said so. Now I don't bother trying, but I could scrounge up a story or two in my memory that could possibly point you in the right direction (for the Shelby GT350, anything else just PM me).👍

Let's get one thing straight: Carroll Shelby was not some big wig guy in a suit on the board of directors, he was a hometown hot rod builder. Regardless of my opinion of some of his business decisions (having nothing to do with the GT350) the man had a talent for turning horsepower into cash. Quick story (I'll try, I could write a book about this!) of the GT350! Ford's 427 big-block was a wild animal turned loose: it won NASCAR in '63 (1-2-3-4-5 finish at the Daytona 500 set the pace for the rest of the season) and the NHRA Super Stock title in '64 (I'm sorry Mopar guys, it's hard to hear you over the Thunder!👍). This same engine was available with a (try not to laugh) "410hp" or with 2 carbs they said "425hp" was all it had (as long as you add 50 or so). Pontiac dropped the 421 Super Duty in '63 for the GTO with a 389, leaving the 427 as the king in '64 and let's just say people had heard of its exploits by now (you don't nearly sweep NASCAR unnoticed). Below the 427 in the Galaxie was still the venerable 390 (later achieved fame in Bullitt) with its 330hp and 425ft-lbs, not exactly a slouch. Now Ford is set to release the Mustang with a 271hp 289 as the top motor, and it has to sit in the same showroom as the 427. During this time, Carroll Shelby had been using his 260/289-powered Cobra to bend Zora Arkus-Duntov over on pretty much every track in the country and after the '63 Sebring 12 hour race Enzo Ferrari knew he was next on the list. This California driver turned hot rod builder was using the same small-block 4.7L V8 to do better than just a couple wins; he made Duntov his b**** and Ferrari, who laughed at Ford after their buyout attempt fell through and they announced a Le Mans racing project, was now running scared from a some guy from California with a car he built in a garage with some friends. It didn't take long for Ford to figure clearly Shelby was the guy to build a high-performance Mustang, and the result was the GT350.

The street GT350 made roughly 300-310hjp, this has been documented and proven on a dyno more than once (there was even one done in a magazine where they built replicas of both the K-code and Shelby motors, Mustang Monthly I think it was). The car was stripped, suspension reworked, brakes improved, and a lot of lightweight parts cut about 300lbs or so off the standard Mustang 289 4-speed car. A GT350 should come in somewhere at 2800lbs or thereabouts, it wasn't just max power than increased but the rev range got stuffed up top harder so once you got that Shelby 289 north of 4000rpm it hit harder than the 306hp sounds like. The specs in GT5 are all for a street GT350, I did replicate some GT350R specs as close as possible on one of my own and it's a hot little machine to drive! The R was pure racing machine with significantly enhanced performance over the street version, they were stripped of their backseat and the GT350 was homologated with the SCCA as a separate model that is now a 2-seater sports car. Duntov's favorite headache was back, now with full factory backing and a fleet of racing vehicles to chase him across the country with! Less than 40 fastback GT350R models were built, all were homologated as sports cars in the SCCA (not including some "Ford" notchbacks that went into Trans Am sedan racing, not too many people could race-prep a fleet of Mustangs for the '66 racing season so there were more Shelby Mustang raced as Fords).

The real deal, 2-seater, SCCA B/Production, Corvette-stomping GT350R was built under interesting circumstances (the detective types will probably see where this going in a minute) and these were probably the busiest years of Shelby's life. He was highly modifying the Mustang, turning his new version into a racing vehicle that had to beat the Corvette, the Corvette went from a 327 to a 350 leaving the 289 an entire liter of displacement down, he was still racing his 289 Cobras, and he was currently working on getting an FIA-legal Cobra ready in order to sock it to Ferrari on their own turf! In the next few years he would continue beating up the Corvette, his Cobra would fail FIA homologation, the new big-block 427 Cobra would be a total flop that nearly ruined him, he popped out the GT500, he was selected to help redesign what Ford considered their most important racing project, and he finally handed defeat to Enzo Ferrari at the 24 Hours of Le Mans with the GT40 he had been helping with. He had pulled his 289 Cobras out of their class when the new GT350 came about, this was about promoting the Mustang it was largely left to to others while Shelby focused on new horizons. Like I said, the detective types probably read that and know where I'm going with this.

What I know of the engine itself is it was radically different from the street 289, when Shelby said "competition use only" that had nothing to do with the car being too fast, it meant this car is not designed to drive on a public road. The interior went from stripped to gutted, most (if not all) were fitted with a one-piece fiberglass front end, the suspension and brakes were improved to racing specs, a quick-detach gas cap, lightweight wheels, most any body panel or piece went to aluminum if not fiberglass, they were meant for racing and built for just that. All said and done, 2600lbs would be about right and I've heard a few different people say between 2500 and 2600. The engine consisted supposedly new internals, a bigger carburetor, an engine oil cooler, and a few other bits and pieces like intake and headers I'd say it's safe to assume since it was intended for racing. The heads and cam are what made this motor; the two ways to make power are more displacement and more revs so with less displacement that little Ford would scream like a Honda Type R motor! The cam was pure racing design and hot as hell, the car was pretty much useless below 4000-4500rpm, once past that it was breathing fire up 8000! The heads were a custom Shelby design from what I understand, static compression in the realm of 13.0 to 13.5 so not even leaded pump gas would stand up in there.

I included all of the above history lesson for good reason. Shelby was busy and I mentioned him being a hot rod guy at heart because he went about cars the same way a shadetree mechanic does. He's wasn't a factory engineer that always wants to design something new from the ground up. You can put 2 and 2 together to figure out what I'm getting at here, from there it's clear 325-360hjp is incorrect (street car is 310-ish, pretty easy to find the direction you need to go:tup. I'll say this as a last hint: there was a certain incident in Britain that is related to how incorrect 325-360 is.

 

[MustangManiac]

I mentioned last week that given my name you might guess that I was a Ford guy. If you could see the cobra snake tatoo on my arm you might guess where my true passion lie. The very first car I took for a test drive when I got GT5 was none other than the 427 Cobra.

I bought a second Cobra this week with the intention of maxing it out, but didn't quite get that far. After running the first one I thought that just wasn't much more this car needed. I did give it a mild tune however: opening up the intake,exhaust and installing a custimizable transmission so I could fine tune it for a given track. I finished that off with a racing drivetrain and RS rubber for the added grip.

The stock one came in at 474hp/533pp and after maintenance ended up at 498hp/540pp. The modified at 555hp/553pp pre maintenance, 591hp/561pp.
Out at the test track I posted:

1/4 mi.......11.022 / 10.609
1.0mi........28.706 / 26.328
0-60.........2.993 / 2.985
0-100.......6.550 / 5.980
maxG........01.24 / 01.23
maxSpd.....159.1 / 211.2

Deep Forest:

The runs out at Deep Forest quickly became an excersize not in tire management, but one of air management. There were six spots in the track where you could catch air as well as a few large curbs that could result in the same. Braking and shifting became as useful for staying on the ground maintaining traction and control as it did for cornering! My best of ten laps in the stock car was 1:18.536 and with the modified ride I got 1:16.515.

I decided to take the modified Cobra somewhere that I could let her stretch her legs out a bit. I set the tranny at 240mph top end and took to Monza for another best of ten laps. I posted a 1:49.780, just a tick over a second slower than my maxed 458 Italia rated at 689hp/610pp. Not bad for a nearly 50 year old hot rod giving up nearly 100hp and 50pp to a modern exotic Italian supercar.

For competition I took to Laguna Seca raceway where the stock Cobra started P7, reached a high of P3 before suffering two offs dropping me back to P11. I was able to battle back to my original P7 on the last lap.

My version of NASCARs infamous "pass in the grass"

I had a great running battle with this Mark IV for a couple of laps

Getting by the Mark IV for P3 in the Corkscrew

I faired a bit better with the modified car starting again in P7, attaining a high of P2 before falling off to a finish of P3.

I like the feeling of speed in this shot

Dropping into the infamous Corkscrew

Slideways through turn one a Laguna

I had a great time with this weeks COTW! If I have time I may take out the GT350-R later in the week.

 

[McClarenDesign]

We were driving this car in CRAP casual racing for this weeks time trial around Spa. I managed a 1:40.900 on Sports soft tires with everything else stock.

I think you meant 2:40, as 1:40 is impossibly short. Best I could do was a 2:43, but I only spent a few laps on it while waiting on the servers. With enough practice, 2:39s should be feasible.

 

[Ross]

I think you meant 2:40, as 1:40 is impossibly short. Best I could do was a 2:43, but I only spent a few laps on it while waiting on the servers. With enough practice, 2:39s should be feasible.

Yes sorry, it's because I'm used to doing short laps. That 2:40 was achieved after about 3 hours and nearly a broken controller.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Yes sorry, it's because I'm used to doing short laps. That 2:40 was achieved after about 3 hours and nearly a broken controller.

I'd like to spend more time on it, but by then the servers were up, and I'd rather race than do time trials.

I did too many in Prologue. Good combo though. Great challenge.

 

[JLawrence]

I will be completely honest, when I met Carroll Shelby at VIR a couple years back the man was a categorical jerk to me, but all ill feelings aside, he was a legend and was the creator of what are certainly my favorite cars.

I wiped off the dust and took my Cobra and GT350 out some hot laps last night. After some practice laps and relearning the handling I began to put out some pretty quick times. With the Cobra I managed a 1:10.9xx on Deep Forest, and a 1:24.1xx on Trial Mt, while I put in a 1:29.7xx on the same track in the GT350, then a 1:29.1 on Laguna Seca.

They're certainly not easy cars to handle, but once you get the hang of them they can keep up with basically anything out there. I had forgotten how much fun they could be and I will certainly be taking them out a lot more now.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I will be completely honest, when I met Carroll Shelby at VIR a couple years back the man was a categorical jerk to me, but all ill feelings aside, he was a legend and was the creator of what are certainly my favorite cars.

At that age, I'll probably be a jerk too.

 

[byegad]

I remember reading a British test of the Shelby Cobra. They knew the British AC car it was based on and concentrated on the power, after mentioning that it retained the excellent handling of the AC.
They eventually tried 0-100mph and were very impressed. So they did 0-100-0-100-0mph in just under 30 seconds! Some car, some engineer.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I think it held the 0-100-0 mph record for quite some time.

 

[Woodski_427]

I've not had much time this week but have managed to get a bit of Cobra action.

In a fit of masochism I first took the AC Cobra 427 and then the Shelby version onto an extensive Touge style track, both with SH tyres. Sticking with no ABS and using the DS3, it took four attempts to succesfully make the first corner. Braking from 140+ mph on a downhill proved to be rather troublesome and after adjusting the bias to 3:0 I took the first double apex in a marvellous sweeping drift.

Actually, I do often use the stock Shelby Cobra on CH for the drift trials, and after three laps in each car I was enjoying the experience: the AC variant being slightly better handling but along with more HP and torque the Shelby seems to have a wider power range and revs more eagerly.

How we normally experience the Cobra...

Reading the post from Ross about his Spa TT, I thought I'd give it a go with both cars, this time using my venerable Driving Force Pro. With his 2:40 as a target, I got in the AC and set off with purpose:

Out of the chicane and controlling the wheelspin in first and second, the little Cobra accelerates at a fierce pace. Hitting the red line in third, it's hard on the brakes and turn in for the tight hairpin: the back starts to come round, so I counter steer and have to power slide around the barrier. Cooool! I rocket off down the hill, hitting 140 MPH before a hard dab on the brakes at Eau Rouge and ease to the right, the back end twitches...knuckles are white, a bit late on the power (careful - not full throttle), I clip the curb to the left...slight correction for the crest and BOOMSHANKA! The rears have gone, can't catch it, and as I take my foot off the gas I'm mockingly propelled into the wall. So, this is how it's going to be my slippery friend...


Running Wide...

After three laps I achieved a way-off pace 2:53 and decided the Shelby might be a better option. Only then did I realise the AC was still shod with Sport Hard tyres, probably shredded after the hooligan touge ride. Oh well, this should be a breeze then!

Not quite. With SS, and no driving aids, I did achieve a 2:44 something after 5 laps. The Cobra really is a love/hate relationship: when things are going well it is great, a really satisfying drive; but the car is so unstable at high speeds and under braking - any sudden movements and it will bite.

Terms like 'legendary' and 'iconic' are used much too freely these days, but Carroll Shelby and his insane creation are more than worthy of such labels.

 

[MustangManiac]

1965 Shelby GT350R​

The car came from the garage rated at 286hp/446pp and after maintenance showed 301hp/453pp. I bought another to modify, I opened up the intake and exhaust, installed a customizable trans and upgraded the rest of the drive train. Not wanting to permanantly modify the motor I chose to bolt on a supercharger. Of course I had to paint her black, everybody knows that black is the fastest color. I ended up with 416hp/500pp. 500pp on the nose, just right for a little A-Spec seasonal fun!

Here are the numbers they posted at the test track:
1/4 mi.......11.022 / 10.609
1.0 mi.......28.706 / 26.328
0 - 60.........2.993 / 2.985
0 - 100.......6.550 / 5.980
max. G.........1.24 / 1.23
max. Spd....132.0 / 183.3

Best of ten laps at Deep Forest:
Stock: 1:28.306
Tuned: 1:20.917

Both cars had no trouble taking first on the track, the stock ride 5 lap event at Trial Mountain and the tuned version a 3 lap event at Daytona roadcourse.

These cars are great fun to drive and I can't wait to go after some of the 500pp events with the "super-snake" version!

 

[McClarenDesign]

Great work, guys! Bring on next week!!

 

[SmileyOr]

I remember reading a British test of the Shelby Cobra. They knew the British AC car it was based on and concentrated on the power, after mentioning that it retained the excellent handling of the AC.
They eventually tried 0-100mph and were very impressed. So they did 0-100-0-100-0mph in just under 30 seconds! Some car, some engineer.

Some things I remember that I have not seen mentioned here:

What I remember: it was a car magazine advertising a Jaguar that was capable of doing 0-100-0 in under 25 seconds. So they took the Cobra out and did 0-100-0 in 13.8 seconds to show up the Jaguar people.

Carroll Shelby was a WWII fighter pilot before he raced cars.

I have photos of a 427 Cobra, race prepped that was clocked at 198.something mph. It was owned at the time by Dick Smith of Fresno California.

It had an air dam mounted to reduce lift for the race where it was clocked at 198. This was in the 60's. I have photos somewhere.

I have my tickets for the Rolex Motorsports Reunion this year

I have the book "Carroll Shelby's Wildlife" that is where I've referenced the 0-100-0 time from.

I have a few other books from that era about the Cobra.

My dad raced sports cars in SCCA from the late 50's to the early 60's. He was the local Team Continental chief driving instructor at Portland International Raceway in 1960. He had the opportunity to drive an AC Ace/Bristol up to it's top speed of 140 mph back then. I just saw on an televised auction program that an original condition AC Ace Bristol sold for around $400,000 (might have been $225k).

 

[300SRT8Fan]

Sweet pic with the top up!

 

[Badasp5.0]

1st of all great great tribute to Shelby and his great cars.

I hate to be that guy but the info on the Series 1 is wrong. The 320hp for the early cars is for the non supercharged version (It had little tweaks to bump the HP from the orignal Aurora 250HP specs) and the supercharged versions were rated at 444HP.

If you ever want to read a good book on these cars look up "Snake bit" by Eric Davison.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Some things I remember that I have not seen mentioned here:

What I remember: it was a car magazine advertising a Jaguar that was capable of doing 0-100-0 in under 25 seconds. So they took the Cobra out and did 0-100-0 in 13.8 seconds to show up the Jaguar people.

A few posts before that...

I think it held the 0-100-0 mph record for quite some time.

I'd love to know Shelby's pilot callsign.

I hate to be that guy but the info on the Series 1 is wrong. The 320hp for the early cars is for the non supercharged version (It had little tweaks to bump the HP from the orignal Aurora 250HP specs) and the supercharged versions were rated at 444HP.

Translator-san covered this in my review.

 

[MustangManiac]

GT40​

I chose three versions of this car to test this week. A stock '06 rated at 538hp/564pp, a tuned '05 model rated at 696hp/618pp and finally the GTLM Spec II race car at 606hp/636pp. The numbers I got at the test track:
................GT '06.....GT '05.....GTLM
1/4 mi........11.511....10.185.....10.273
1.0 mi.........28.113....25.143....25.641
0 - 60.........3.225.....2.647......2.757
0 - 100.......7.494.....5.309.......5.346
max. G........1.05.......1.35........1.24
max. Spd.....215.7.....223.9.......205.3

I was a little surprised that my tuned version posted better numbers all around than the LM car, but the LM would show its strength later at the track. I took to my usual track, Deep forest, for a series of best of ten laps. I started with the stock '06 and after ten tire screeching laps posting a rather poor 1:18.827 I came to the conclusion that this track was just too tight and small for these cars. I decided to try Trial Mountain and after an unimpressive 1:31.909 where I never made it past 4th gear I had to rethink things. I then proceeded to Monza where I knew these cars could really stretch their legs.

I posted a 1:55.841 in the '06. a 1:42.706 in the "05 and a 1:42.781 in the LM. There were a few surprises out at Monza. First was the stock '06's handling, she pushed very bad in these high speed corners. Second was my just edging out the LM car with the tuned '05. However I did run the LM first, my first laps of the day, and then run the '05 after getting warmed up. The more I pushed the '05 the more she pused back. I made two excursions into the kitty litter in 6 laps. I am sure if I had then went back to the LM I could have posted some better times. I was running short on time though, there was racing to be done.

I chose the old A-Spec challenge #1 and took the '05 out on the track at Grand Valley. I posted a 1:50.300 finishing 3rd to a McLaren F1 and a Zonda LM.

Itching for a re-match I unloaded the LM Spec II and went after it once more.

Who's the rabbit now?

I posted a 1:46.016 on my way to a 1st place finish beating out another Spec II with a MK IV running 3rd. That MK IV sure is one beautifully angry sounding car!

What a fantastic COTW...bring on the next!

 

[SuperMan184]

Where is this weeks car of the week?

 

[McClarenDesign]

Where is this weeks car of the week?

Probably waiting on the previous winner's choice.

 

[McClarenDesign]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/25/watch-country-musics-mac-davis-sing-a-carroll-shelby-tribute/

1966 Shelby 427 Cobra
Carroll Shelby's iconic 427 Cobra is indisputably one of the most recognizable and iconic American sports cars ever created. The 1966 Shelby 427 Cobra that will be offered at the Pebble Beach Auctions is just one of 260 road cars produced. An excellent representation of what collectors look for in an authentic Cobra today, CSX 3216 has a genuine, date-coded 427 FE big block engine and has been extensively restored to its original livery of Wimbledon White over an original, beautifully-patinated, black interior. The car is equipped with a complete file of documentation dating back to its first owner. Its estimate is $750,000 - $950,000.

Moment of Noise tribute

 

[iainn]

Better late than never, but here's my post for the Shelby special COTW.

First up is the premium Cobra which is a real handful to drive, but can be great fun to drive and in the right hands very quick.

Visiting Jenkins at Kyoto-Gion


A beautiful car, here it is at Laguna Seca


I decide to use a Matte paint for this special COTW and end up choosing Matte Light Gray and some new wheels.



I tried the GT350 and the Series One and I think I liked the GT350 best.


Cheers

 

[Woodski_427]

^ nice Laguna Seca shots. I normally avoid the place so have never taken pics there. The sky looks pretty good.

Matte grey? Unfortunately looks like primer to me I was considering it for something the other day but gave it a miss.

 

[iainn]

Thanks Woodski.

I try to use a "home" track for the COTW if I can, and you can get some good "wide open space" type shots at Laguna.

It does look like primer but I quite like that!

I've looked at the matte paints several times, but as I don't want to waste them, I end up not using them at all.