Car of the Week | Porsche Cayman GT4 (981) '16
- Thread starter XSquareStickIt
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jrbabbitt
Premium
- 3,051
- Charleston, SC
- TCR_JimyBee
- 1,791
- Singapore
- XSquareStickIt
Me, loathing the C-HR and dreading having to run the Saturday lobby.
PSN: Dies.
Me:
PSN: Dies.
Me:
Last edited:
- 1,791
- Singapore
- XSquareStickIt
So, you know how we collectively voted the 2011 Toyota Aqua S as not only the worst looking car we've ran in 2024, but also outright Beater of the Year?
The C-HR is a worse version of that.
Yes, part of the charm and spirit of Gran Turismo is that it includes run–off–the–mill cars that have no business on a racetrack, allowing players to upgrade them into visually ironic monsters that can compete with full–blown racecars on a track, or simply to be sampled as they are to provide context for the sporty and exotic cars the players will later earn their way into. Gran Turismo 7 has attempted to continue that by including cars like a diesel Demio and an electric i3, but those are cars present at launch, with the Demio even serving as one of the three starter cars of the game, meaning it has some (fleeting) purpose in the game. The C-HR is a slow and unenjoyable car to drive added nearly three years into the game's life cycle, with no comparable competition. What the hell does it do? What are we supposed to do with it? Fully upgrade it so that it can compete at the blistering pace of a bone–stock A80 Supra?
Just as Obelisk notes that the C-HR failed sales wise in the States due to a questionable transmission, the C-HR here in Gran Turismo 7 is dead–on–arrival thanks to the bizarre choice of being represented in the 1.8L Hybrid CVT trim. This immediately means that, beyond the initial 53kW (73PS) that the electric motor is capable of, the C-HR has the worst "turbo lag" of any car in the game, despite being NA, and that's because every time the throttle pedal is fully released in the C-HR, the engine shuts off, and will need a fair bit of time after the throttle pedal is depressed again to start back up again and hook up with the CVT before it can provide propulsion again. This not only makes gauging when to give the car throttle out of a corner extremely counter–intuitive, but also how much throttle to give a cumbersome matter as well; drivers will want to give a hard stab initially to wake the engine up from its brief stasis, only to come off the throttle pedal to modulate power delivery to control the understeer coming out of a turn. One would think then, that this gearbox ill–suited for track use would be the first thing to go once its owner starts to upgrade the car, but as with the Aqua, there's no option in the tuning shop to give the Toyota hybrid cars proper throttle response via conventional gearboxes; the cars are just stuck with that curse for life, to say nothing of their extremely limited upgrade potential as a whole. While GT7 debuts the ability to swap engines, hybrid cars to this day (nearly 3 years after launch) have never been given the option to transplant their pacemaker assisted hearts, meaning that the C-HR is stuck with its 1.8L Inline–4 for the foreseeable future as well.
And because the C-HR was programmed to be economical first and fast never, the C-HR will never give drivers the full combined power of the ICE and electric motor. According to the car's brochure, the engine's and motor's peak outputs are 72kW (98PS) and 53kW (73PS) respectively, and adding them up gives us 125kW (171HP), yet, the C-HR is listed in the game as having only 101kW (138PS). One might think then, that this should at least mean that the charge levels of its Lithium–Ion hybrid battery would last the car for most races, but around most tracks, the battery stops providing juice after around four minutes of hard driving, meaning that the C-HR only performs to its 356.40PP rating for for four minutes, after which its performance drops to a level akin to that of a Kei car.
In a "racing" scenario, this means that whoever is the lead C-HR in a One–Make race is just effed to ess, because the quickly dying battery means that the strat is to sit behind in slipstream, lifting and coasting to baby and conserve the battery, and then sailing past the lead car once it runs out of juice punching through the air, and the sheer performance difference between when the car has charge versus when it doesn't is simply impossible to compensate for unless there's a gargantuan skill gap between the drivers. While most slow and isoteric cars can at least be raced against copies of itself, Toyota hybrid road cars suck at even that.
Look, I appreciate being able to sample a normie crossover and a sporty pickup truck. But when the only ambulance we have is a Himedic and the only minivan we have is an Alphard, it starts to feel less like a game and more like an advertisement. The A80 Supra didn't gain its legendary cult status in GT because it was the only 90's sports coupé in the games; it gained its legendary cult status in GT precisely because it shone on its own merits against competition from other makes.
All that is to say, the C-HR would probably be less reviled if there were other mundane crossovers in the game to compare it against. If there was a Crossover Championship or the sort to give the car some purpose and competition. If it wasn't hobbled by bizarre decisions not only in its drivetrain, but also upgrade potential. If it didn't take up a update car slot in a game that still omits many highly–requested fan favourite cars. It's almost a shame, because past all that boneheaded BS, the C-HR actually doesn't corner terrible; certainly a much appreciated improvement over the Aqua and Prius' anesthetic laced jelly suspension fumbling around corners. I just don't know if it's the exception or the norm, which makes it impossible to truly appreciate.
Also, this livery should bolster the sale price of my C-HR to at least a quarter million Credits when being sold:
The C-HR is a worse version of that.
Yes, part of the charm and spirit of Gran Turismo is that it includes run–off–the–mill cars that have no business on a racetrack, allowing players to upgrade them into visually ironic monsters that can compete with full–blown racecars on a track, or simply to be sampled as they are to provide context for the sporty and exotic cars the players will later earn their way into. Gran Turismo 7 has attempted to continue that by including cars like a diesel Demio and an electric i3, but those are cars present at launch, with the Demio even serving as one of the three starter cars of the game, meaning it has some (fleeting) purpose in the game. The C-HR is a slow and unenjoyable car to drive added nearly three years into the game's life cycle, with no comparable competition. What the hell does it do? What are we supposed to do with it? Fully upgrade it so that it can compete at the blistering pace of a bone–stock A80 Supra?
Just as Obelisk notes that the C-HR failed sales wise in the States due to a questionable transmission, the C-HR here in Gran Turismo 7 is dead–on–arrival thanks to the bizarre choice of being represented in the 1.8L Hybrid CVT trim. This immediately means that, beyond the initial 53kW (73PS) that the electric motor is capable of, the C-HR has the worst "turbo lag" of any car in the game, despite being NA, and that's because every time the throttle pedal is fully released in the C-HR, the engine shuts off, and will need a fair bit of time after the throttle pedal is depressed again to start back up again and hook up with the CVT before it can provide propulsion again. This not only makes gauging when to give the car throttle out of a corner extremely counter–intuitive, but also how much throttle to give a cumbersome matter as well; drivers will want to give a hard stab initially to wake the engine up from its brief stasis, only to come off the throttle pedal to modulate power delivery to control the understeer coming out of a turn. One would think then, that this gearbox ill–suited for track use would be the first thing to go once its owner starts to upgrade the car, but as with the Aqua, there's no option in the tuning shop to give the Toyota hybrid cars proper throttle response via conventional gearboxes; the cars are just stuck with that curse for life, to say nothing of their extremely limited upgrade potential as a whole. While GT7 debuts the ability to swap engines, hybrid cars to this day (nearly 3 years after launch) have never been given the option to transplant their pacemaker assisted hearts, meaning that the C-HR is stuck with its 1.8L Inline–4 for the foreseeable future as well.
And because the C-HR was programmed to be economical first and fast never, the C-HR will never give drivers the full combined power of the ICE and electric motor. According to the car's brochure, the engine's and motor's peak outputs are 72kW (98PS) and 53kW (73PS) respectively, and adding them up gives us 125kW (171HP), yet, the C-HR is listed in the game as having only 101kW (138PS). One might think then, that this should at least mean that the charge levels of its Lithium–Ion hybrid battery would last the car for most races, but around most tracks, the battery stops providing juice after around four minutes of hard driving, meaning that the C-HR only performs to its 356.40PP rating for for four minutes, after which its performance drops to a level akin to that of a Kei car.
In a "racing" scenario, this means that whoever is the lead C-HR in a One–Make race is just effed to ess, because the quickly dying battery means that the strat is to sit behind in slipstream, lifting and coasting to baby and conserve the battery, and then sailing past the lead car once it runs out of juice punching through the air, and the sheer performance difference between when the car has charge versus when it doesn't is simply impossible to compensate for unless there's a gargantuan skill gap between the drivers. While most slow and isoteric cars can at least be raced against copies of itself, Toyota hybrid road cars suck at even that.
Look, I appreciate being able to sample a normie crossover and a sporty pickup truck. But when the only ambulance we have is a Himedic and the only minivan we have is an Alphard, it starts to feel less like a game and more like an advertisement. The A80 Supra didn't gain its legendary cult status in GT because it was the only 90's sports coupé in the games; it gained its legendary cult status in GT precisely because it shone on its own merits against competition from other makes.
All that is to say, the C-HR would probably be less reviled if there were other mundane crossovers in the game to compare it against. If there was a Crossover Championship or the sort to give the car some purpose and competition. If it wasn't hobbled by bizarre decisions not only in its drivetrain, but also upgrade potential. If it didn't take up a update car slot in a game that still omits many highly–requested fan favourite cars. It's almost a shame, because past all that boneheaded BS, the C-HR actually doesn't corner terrible; certainly a much appreciated improvement over the Aqua and Prius' anesthetic laced jelly suspension fumbling around corners. I just don't know if it's the exception or the norm, which makes it impossible to truly appreciate.
Also, this livery should bolster the sale price of my C-HR to at least a quarter million Credits when being sold:
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- 1,791
- Singapore
- XSquareStickIt
I can't believe three whole people brought a C-HR around the freaking Nordschleife...
Congrats to everyone for their immense patience with this hopeless lump, and great effort by jrbabbit for his first SPC participation!
It's time for our Road Atlanta Anthusiast (sorry) to pick the next Car of the Week!
Which car will he run At Atlanta next?
Why, it's a car that's been having issues since its debut in the infamous v1.49 of GT7, the BMW M3 '97!
The E30 M3 was one of the best regarded sports cars in the industry, with it even being crowned our Car of the Year 2023. Following up on such success is an unenviable task, but that was exactly what the E36 M3 had to accomplish. Sandwiched between the two most well–regarded M3 generations, the E30 and E46, can the E36 carve out a niche for itself? Or is it doomed to suffer from middle child syndrome in the history books?
Whether you have an eligible E36 or not, you're welcome to join us both in writing and racing to see for yourself!
Of course, we always welcome opinions, tunes, liveries, photos, videos, or stories about the car here on the the thread!
| Tuned | Stock |
Obelisk | | 10:12.540 |
jrbabbitt | 8:28.933 | 9:57.690 |
Vic Reign93 | 8:00.863 |
Congrats to everyone for their immense patience with this hopeless lump, and great effort by jrbabbit for his first SPC participation!
It's time for our Road Atlanta Anthusiast (sorry) to pick the next Car of the Week!
Which car will he run At Atlanta next?
Why, it's a car that's been having issues since its debut in the infamous v1.49 of GT7, the BMW M3 '97!
Dogbox BoneStock: Biewer Terrier by RMedia_Obelisk
#biewer #bonestock #dogbox
#biewer #bonestock #dogbox
The E30 M3 was one of the best regarded sports cars in the industry, with it even being crowned our Car of the Year 2023. Following up on such success is an unenviable task, but that was exactly what the E36 M3 had to accomplish. Sandwiched between the two most well–regarded M3 generations, the E30 and E46, can the E36 carve out a niche for itself? Or is it doomed to suffer from middle child syndrome in the history books?
Whether you have an eligible E36 or not, you're welcome to join us both in writing and racing to see for yourself!
Join Our Weekly Lobbies!
Our weekly lobbies are ongoing as usual, and anyone (not a dick) is welcome to join us in racing E36s under BoP conditions!
Click on the hyperlinks to convert the times to your time zone, and feel free to add the hosts as friends on PSN to make searching for the lobbies easier!
Tracks: Randomly selected by lobby participants (~5 mins practice, ~10 mins sprint)
PP Limit: 507PP
Car: No Limit
Tyres: Comfort Soft
Click on the hyperlinks to convert the times to your time zone, and feel free to add the hosts as friends on PSN to make searching for the lobbies easier!
The Americas Lobby
- Tuesday. 11th February, 10 P.M. CST
- Host: Victory_Reign93
The Asia/Oceania also kinda European Lobby
- Saturday, 15th February, 4 P.M. Singapore Time
- Host: XSquareStickIt
Tracks: Randomly selected by lobby participants (~5 mins practice, ~10 mins sprint)
PP Limit: 507PP
Car: No Limit
Tyres: Comfort Soft
~Single–Player Challenge!~
Of course, we always welcome opinions, tunes, liveries, photos, videos, or stories about the car here on the the thread!
- 51,653
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
I don't mind the E36. I just felt the car was becoming too fast too soon. However, in the USA, at the time, we didn't get the big power 3.2L. I think the 3.0L- US spec was only rated at 235hp or 245hp(?). Plus, I preferred the sedan due to the boom in four door touring cars.
Anyway, finally having this car in the franchise is a win for us all.
I guess it's a sleeper because it doesn't look like a car with 320bhp. Should pit it against both 993 CS/RS to see how it goes.
Anyway, finally having this car in the franchise is a win for us all.
I guess it's a sleeper because it doesn't look like a car with 320bhp. Should pit it against both 993 CS/RS to see how it goes.
- 1,852
- Space City, USA
- GTP_MPower
- JetsE36
- 51,653
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Ah, that's what it was. I swear there was a Car & Driver magazine issue that mentioned we didn't get the 3.2L. That was probably when the E36 M3 initially debuted in the USA.
Okay, looked up a couple things. Goodness, thirty years ago. Goes quick. The 3.2L-US came a year later while Europe already debuted the M3 a few years earlier. Plus, the 3.2L-Euro same year we got the M3. All good.
jrbabbitt
Premium
- 3,051
- Charleston, SC
- TCR_JimyBee
Believe it or not, but i am guessing I am a rare one the actually likes the CH-R....
and I'll give the Bimmer a try....
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- 527
- Singapore
The Toyota C-HR, the very definition of boring and unassuming. Honestly, they should have called it the CAR - the City Appliance Runabout because at least that would have been slightly witty and memey.
Also, why did PD model the pre-facelift Gen 1 with its very fugly front fascia instead of the much nicer facelift (that also looks much closer to the original concept)? It’s not the ugliest thing in the world (that goes to the Gen 1 Kia Picanto and its atrocious grille), but the C-HR is already a contender for Worst Looking Car of the Year.
Another disappointment is the choice of powertrain: the 1.8L 2ZR-FXE hybrid. It suffers from the same issues as the Aqua: the engine is tied to a CVT that is meant for city driving and not track work, an overly restrictive battery deployment that forces lift-and-coast to harvest sufficient charge to deploy the electric motor and a drastic performance loss if the charge falls too low.
And to make matters worse, the C-HR does have an alternative engine/transmission combo that would have arguably been much better on track: the non-hybrid 1.2L turbo 8NR-FTS mated to a 6 speed manual. It may only have 116 PS to the 2XR’s 138 PS, but it would have distinguished the C-HR from the Aqua and Prius, the manual would been a much better match for the surprisingly nimble C-HR’s chassis and it would have left open the possibility of an engine swap for even more power.
The C-HR is a ‘what could have been’ - an agile handling crossover let down by a lethargic and counterintuitive engine and transmission that arguably leaves it outpaced by the starter hatchback trio (let alone the AFEELA or the majority of the MFGT roster).
Also, why did PD model the pre-facelift Gen 1 with its very fugly front fascia instead of the much nicer facelift (that also looks much closer to the original concept)? It’s not the ugliest thing in the world (that goes to the Gen 1 Kia Picanto and its atrocious grille), but the C-HR is already a contender for Worst Looking Car of the Year.
Another disappointment is the choice of powertrain: the 1.8L 2ZR-FXE hybrid. It suffers from the same issues as the Aqua: the engine is tied to a CVT that is meant for city driving and not track work, an overly restrictive battery deployment that forces lift-and-coast to harvest sufficient charge to deploy the electric motor and a drastic performance loss if the charge falls too low.
And to make matters worse, the C-HR does have an alternative engine/transmission combo that would have arguably been much better on track: the non-hybrid 1.2L turbo 8NR-FTS mated to a 6 speed manual. It may only have 116 PS to the 2XR’s 138 PS, but it would have distinguished the C-HR from the Aqua and Prius, the manual would been a much better match for the surprisingly nimble C-HR’s chassis and it would have left open the possibility of an engine swap for even more power.
The C-HR is a ‘what could have been’ - an agile handling crossover let down by a lethargic and counterintuitive engine and transmission that arguably leaves it outpaced by the starter hatchback trio (let alone the AFEELA or the majority of the MFGT roster).
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Obelisk
Premium
- 9,804
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
I am having a mental dip this week, so I'm sorta going back and forth between writing a full review and not saying anything - might as well just write off-the-cuff here and get some thoughts down.
The E36 is a perfectly capable car, even with some minor issues still remaining after all the fixes made post 1.49. It's got really good punch for its power and weight, and it's a very nicely balanced FR platform. It loses grip pretty progressively on its factory C/S tyres, but be careful if you overdo it and slam the front of the car down, because the tires will lock up against...something and send you off the track.
SRC has run a season with the E36s downtuned to SCCA spec, and they're incredibly well-behaved cars at those speeds. It was a hoot, even if our first reverse-grid race at Eiger was a train wreck...
Sleeper.
P.S. I represented Dogbox Racing in the "Biewer Terrier" livery for this past season of the E36s. I've shared a replay of one of the races so folks can see how action packed these cars were (even though these races were before the most recent fix).
Link to the replay.
#src #e36 #race
The E36 is a perfectly capable car, even with some minor issues still remaining after all the fixes made post 1.49. It's got really good punch for its power and weight, and it's a very nicely balanced FR platform. It loses grip pretty progressively on its factory C/S tyres, but be careful if you overdo it and slam the front of the car down, because the tires will lock up against...something and send you off the track.
SRC has run a season with the E36s downtuned to SCCA spec, and they're incredibly well-behaved cars at those speeds. It was a hoot, even if our first reverse-grid race at Eiger was a train wreck...
Sleeper.
P.S. I represented Dogbox Racing in the "Biewer Terrier" livery for this past season of the E36s. I've shared a replay of one of the races so folks can see how action packed these cars were (even though these races were before the most recent fix).
Link to the replay.
#src #e36 #race
- 1,852
- Space City, USA
- GTP_MPower
- JetsE36
The second generation of the M3 is sandwiched between the Homologation special E30 generation M3 and the absolute benchmark that is the E46 generation M3. The E36 is the unloved middle child in every enthusiast’s mind, except mine. It was the car that clutch-kicked my obsession with cars, particularly when I saw those PTG E36 GTRs, that was perfection in my 9 year old eyes. Doesn’t it look absolutely stunning!
Right, now that I am done waxing lyrical about my memories from 30 years ago, let’s get to the facts and onto the proper review. Normally, I travel to Road Atlanta with the featured car and two competitors from that era. This week, however, there is only one that compares to the E36, the A80 Supra, aka the Mk4. I’ll admit that I’m a bit biased towards the M3, but the stopwatch isn’t. So let’s get started.
The specs are nearly identical between the two, the Supra is 100lbs heavier and rated 4hp more powerful than the M3. It’s crazy to think that their lap times are so close, but the way they get to that time is totally different. The Supra pushes the nose like a Quattro Audi, but at least it feels like it makes more power than advertised. I managed to get the Supra within 2 tenths of a second, but it wasn’t fun at all to get that time. I don’t see what makes the A80 Supra so loved.
Now on to the feature of the week, the E36 M3. For whatever reason, the stock tires on the E36 are Comfort Softs. So, to ensure everything is level, I bolted some Sport Hard tires on and hit the track. The E36 feels light on its feet, then slightly kicking the tail out under acceleration. It only takes a little provoking to drift and easy to control that slide, whereas it takes significantly more effort to do the same in the Supra. The E36 is just heaven to lap the track in. It was so fun that I ended up doing 18 laps, I just didn’t want to stop driving it.
To conclude, the E36 is still a dream car of mine to own one day. Its hooks have sunk in even more now that it is finally in Gran Turismo. I buy at least one every time I see it in the Used car dealer, I have 12 now. Sure, the E46 is more planted, but the playfulness and the classic BMW face of the E36 generation just does it for me. It’s lap time doesn’t shock me to the point of amazement, but it sneaks up on those unsuspecting people. I guess it’s no surprise that I’m calling the E36 M3 a Sleeper.
Right, now that I am done waxing lyrical about my memories from 30 years ago, let’s get to the facts and onto the proper review. Normally, I travel to Road Atlanta with the featured car and two competitors from that era. This week, however, there is only one that compares to the E36, the A80 Supra, aka the Mk4. I’ll admit that I’m a bit biased towards the M3, but the stopwatch isn’t. So let’s get started.
The specs are nearly identical between the two, the Supra is 100lbs heavier and rated 4hp more powerful than the M3. It’s crazy to think that their lap times are so close, but the way they get to that time is totally different. The Supra pushes the nose like a Quattro Audi, but at least it feels like it makes more power than advertised. I managed to get the Supra within 2 tenths of a second, but it wasn’t fun at all to get that time. I don’t see what makes the A80 Supra so loved.
Now on to the feature of the week, the E36 M3. For whatever reason, the stock tires on the E36 are Comfort Softs. So, to ensure everything is level, I bolted some Sport Hard tires on and hit the track. The E36 feels light on its feet, then slightly kicking the tail out under acceleration. It only takes a little provoking to drift and easy to control that slide, whereas it takes significantly more effort to do the same in the Supra. The E36 is just heaven to lap the track in. It was so fun that I ended up doing 18 laps, I just didn’t want to stop driving it.
To conclude, the E36 is still a dream car of mine to own one day. Its hooks have sunk in even more now that it is finally in Gran Turismo. I buy at least one every time I see it in the Used car dealer, I have 12 now. Sure, the E46 is more planted, but the playfulness and the classic BMW face of the E36 generation just does it for me. It’s lap time doesn’t shock me to the point of amazement, but it sneaks up on those unsuspecting people. I guess it’s no surprise that I’m calling the E36 M3 a Sleeper.
- 1,791
- Singapore
- XSquareStickIt
Results for last week's SPC, the Good Things Come in Small PP challenge, are in!
And that concludes our second week in a row in the Green Hell! Surely this week's SPC won't take place at the Nürburgring again, right?
...right?
I'm pulling rank this week for... reasons. And I'm choosing to finally feature the Porsche Cayman GT4 '16 (the road car)!
The Boxster/Cayman line has always been a rung lower on the Porsche hierarchy to the venerable 911, but things started to change in 2015 when Porsche decided to enter another model into motorsports. From this, the first "GT" grade of the Cayman was born, the GT4, and it uses many big boy parts from the 911, including, but not limited to, the engine, brakes, and suspension. With better balance from being rear mid–engined as opposed to the rear–engined 911s, is the Cayman finally set to take the fight to its big brother?
If you know me, I think you already know my answer to that
But in any event, you're welcome to join us both in our weekly lobbies and here on the thread to try the car out for yourself and make your opinions known!
Do you buy a new 981 GT4, or go for a used 997 GT3?
Oh, and just because it's me who's setting this SPC, the test track you'll be driving those two cars on will be Mount Panorama
Which car did you set the faster lap time with? Let me know which car of the two you'd pick, and why!
Of course, we always welcome opinions, tunes, liveries, photos, videos, or stories about the car here on the the thread!
jrbabbitt | 535.63PP |
K31thc0m | 529.81PP |
And that concludes our second week in a row in the Green Hell! Surely this week's SPC won't take place at the Nürburgring again, right?
...right?
I'm pulling rank this week for... reasons. And I'm choosing to finally feature the Porsche Cayman GT4 '16 (the road car)!
The Boxster/Cayman line has always been a rung lower on the Porsche hierarchy to the venerable 911, but things started to change in 2015 when Porsche decided to enter another model into motorsports. From this, the first "GT" grade of the Cayman was born, the GT4, and it uses many big boy parts from the 911, including, but not limited to, the engine, brakes, and suspension. With better balance from being rear mid–engined as opposed to the rear–engined 911s, is the Cayman finally set to take the fight to its big brother?
If you know me, I think you already know my answer to that
But in any event, you're welcome to join us both in our weekly lobbies and here on the thread to try the car out for yourself and make your opinions known!Join Our Weekly Lobbies!
Our weekly lobbies are ongoing as usual, and anyone (not a dick) is welcome to join us in racing 981 GT4s under BoP conditions!
Click on the hyperlinks to convert the times to your time zone, and feel free to add the hosts as friends on PSN to make searching for the lobbies easier!
Tracks: Randomly selected by lobby participants (~5 mins practice, ~10 mins sprint)
PP Limit: 588PP
Car: No Limit
Tyres: Sports Hard
Click on the hyperlinks to convert the times to your time zone, and feel free to add the hosts as friends on PSN to make searching for the lobbies easier!
The Americas Lobby
- Tuesday. 18th February, 10 P.M. CST
- Host: Victory_Reign93
The Asia/Oceania also kinda European Lobby
- Saturday, 22nd February, 4 P.M. Singapore Time
- Host: XSquareStickIt
Tracks: Randomly selected by lobby participants (~5 mins practice, ~10 mins sprint)
PP Limit: 588PP
Car: No Limit
Tyres: Sports Hard
~Single–Player Challenge!~
So, picture this: you're looking to buy a Porsche sports car, and you have a budget of just 140,000 Credits.Do you buy a new 981 GT4, or go for a used 997 GT3?
Oh, and just because it's me who's setting this SPC, the test track you'll be driving those two cars on will be Mount Panorama
Which car did you set the faster lap time with? Let me know which car of the two you'd pick, and why!
Of course, we always welcome opinions, tunes, liveries, photos, videos, or stories about the car here on the the thread!
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,804
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
Sure!
195 HP
2824 lbs
Parts:
Sports Soft tires
Weight Reduction Stages 1 and 2
Engine Balance Tuning
Racing Air Filter
Racing Muffler/Silencer
Racing Brake Pads
Close Ratio: Low Transmission
Two-Way Limited Slip Differential
Fully Customizable Race Suspension
Full Control Computer -- 72%
Power Restrictor -- 71%
Ballast -- 70 kg - Position 0
17 inch wheels, wide rim width and wide offset
Front Aero: default
Side Aero: default
Rear Aero: default
Wing Aero: Wingless
Any Front Grille option
Tow Hook B
Roll Cage A
2824 lbs
Parts:
Sports Soft tires
Weight Reduction Stages 1 and 2
Engine Balance Tuning
Racing Air Filter
Racing Muffler/Silencer
Racing Brake Pads
Close Ratio: Low Transmission
Two-Way Limited Slip Differential
Fully Customizable Race Suspension
Full Control Computer -- 72%
Power Restrictor -- 71%
Ballast -- 70 kg - Position 0
17 inch wheels, wide rim width and wide offset
Front Aero: default
Side Aero: default
Rear Aero: default
Wing Aero: Wingless
Any Front Grille option
Tow Hook B
Roll Cage A
Body Height: 115 | 115
Anti-Roll Bar: 6 | 6
Damping (Compression): 38 | 37
Damping (Expansion): 47 | 46
Natural Frequency: 2.80 | 2.90
Camber: 1.5 | 2.3
Toe: 0.00 | 0.20
Anti-Roll Bar: 6 | 6
Damping (Compression): 38 | 37
Damping (Expansion): 47 | 46
Natural Frequency: 2.80 | 2.90
Camber: 1.5 | 2.3
Toe: 0.00 | 0.20
- 1,852
- Space City, USA
- GTP_MPower
- JetsE36
SPC done and dusted.
I tried to optimize the Cayman GT4 session as much as possible. The GT4’s brakes were better at the end of the straights and it was more composed over the top, but the 45hp deficit was a lot to overcome down the two massive straights. Unfortunately, I prefer the 997 GT3 in this comparison. Not just because it’s over 2 seconds faster over a lap, but more so that the GT3 feels more lively and the astonishing traction out of corners. The 997 GT3 is where my 140k would go.
I tried to optimize the Cayman GT4 session as much as possible. The GT4’s brakes were better at the end of the straights and it was more composed over the top, but the 45hp deficit was a lot to overcome down the two massive straights. Unfortunately, I prefer the 997 GT3 in this comparison. Not just because it’s over 2 seconds faster over a lap, but more so that the GT3 feels more lively and the astonishing traction out of corners. The 997 GT3 is where my 140k would go.
jrbabbitt
Premium
- 3,051
- Charleston, SC
- TCR_JimyBee
I am hooked.... I love your challenges..., picture this: you're looking to buy a Porsche sports car, and you have a budget of just 140,000 Credits.
Do you buy a new 981 GT4, or go for a used 997 GT3?
Oh, and just because it's me who's setting this SPC, the test track you'll be driving those two cars on will be Mount Panorama
Which car did you set the faster lap time with? Let me know which car of the two you'd pick, and why!
Going car "shopping"....
- 1,791
- Singapore
- XSquareStickIt
The E36 BMW M3 is in the unenviable position of being the middle child sandwiched between two better regarded brothers, the legendary homologation special E30 and the highly–regarded E46. Some might even go as far as to say that the E36 is the worst M3, and yet, it was declared Car & Driver's Best Handling Car at any price point in 1997, beating out bona fide midship 2 door sports cars like the Ferrari F355 and Acura NSX. So, what exactly is it we're dealing with here? Or is the worst M3 still really that damn good?
Dogbox BoneStock: Biewer Terrier by RMedia_Obelisk
#biewer #bonestock #dogbox
Chainsaw Man Makima E36 M3 by XSquareStickIt
#chainsawman #makima #itasha
Chainsaw Man Makima E36 (Wide) by XSquareStickIt
#chainsawman #makima #itasha
As Gran Turismo 7 players are most likely aware however, the E36 is notorious in this game for thus far having a very troubled existence since it was added in Update 1.49 back in July of 2024, the very same update that overhauled the game's physics and brought with it some unfortunate and sometimes hilarious quirks. The E36 never did have astronaut aspirations, but it was softly sprung enough to encounter problems with the game's physics that seemed to punish cars with soft suspension in befuddling ways, though I'm convinced that there must also be other factors at play that make the issue so persistently afflict the E36. Watching back publicly shared replays of the E36 pre v1.55, it seemed as if the cars or their drivers just steered themselves off the paved track for no apparent reason right into a wall, with no ostensible attempt at resisting their violent fates along the way, sometimes even on relatively straight stretches of tarmac. While said glitch does appear to have toned down in severity, that catastrophic behaviour is still very much present in v1.55, and it will still catch out drivers at the worst of times. My E36 lost itself on Turn 3 of Eiger Nordwand, a slow, downhill right–hander, and with less than half throttle clear out of the powerband of the NA Straight 6, my E36 just speared off towards the inside barrier near the exit of the turn, as though it gave into a long–closeted fetish for Barry R and his facial reconstruction prowess. I of course am in no position to comment on how true to life that reaction to my inputs is, but in the context of this game and in comparison to many of the cars it has, some of which very close in performance, layout, and era to the E36, that's just behaviour I can't expect, explain, nor accept.
In the context of a review of a car in a video game, that's all that would be enough to write off the E36, but in the interest of being fair and thorough, the E36's issues hardly end at a silly glitch. It may have been declared Car & Driver's Best–Handling Car in 1997, but here in Gran Turismo 7, the E36 is going up against a NSX-R instead of a bloody NSX-T, it's going up against something that was never unleashed upon the states in the GT-R, and it's also got more power to tie itself up in knots, being the EU spec that comes to us at 316HP (236kW) instead of a meek 240HP (179kW) the US spec cars had. And in this digital landscape where in theory only the best trims of each model is represented, the E36 I find struggles horrendously to keep up with its digital peers.
It's not just the springs of the E36 that are soft; its chassis feels like it has about as much structural integrity as a truss made of toothpicks tied together with rubber bands. The way in which the E36 approaches its limits is annoyingly not linear, requiring disproportionate effort and care to get the last 10% of its handling envelope out of the car. The car starts off nimble and light on its feet, belying its hefty 1,460kg (3,219lbs) mass and showcasing immediate response and even an accompanying screamer of a soundtrack that together would smite anyone with petrol in their blood. It keeps that agility and responsiveness on hard braking and trail braking, all the way until I'm almost entirely off the brakes and give the steering wheel a harder twist to meet the apex, at which point the car feels as if it hits a metaphorical wall, refusing to turn any more than it's already doing and stressing the tyres into screaming hysteria, often resulting in me missing the apex by about half a car width. Despite being a rather heavy and softly sprung car, rumble strips and road camber greatly upset the E36, the former causing it to squirm vaguely and often requiring quick flashes of counter steer just to keep it pointing in the right direction, with the outside of the last turn of Road Atlanta (a relatively flat and innocuous rumble strip) being a good example. Cutting corners with more raised kerbs, such as the awful chicane of Nürburgring GP or the Bus Stop of Watkins Glen is a crapshoot, because the car just feels incredibly vague when thrown off balance or upset. And when the E36 M3 slides, it's completely numb and catastrophically ceases all communication to its driver. Losing grip in an E36 is like watching a horror movie; I'm terrified, but I can have no more influence and involvement in the affair beyond being terrified. Overall, it's just a car I never came to gel with nor trust under any circumstance, and it was just pure frustration in a racing scenario.
Of course, cars from that era are never without flaws. And so I thought I'd do what car reviewers in real life do, and conduct my own comparison tests. I brought along with me an A80 Supra RZ and a R33 GT-R V • spec, both 2–door Inline 6 sports cars and 1997 models. Even when downgrading the Japanese cars from their default Sports Hard tyres down to match the E36's Comfort Softs, they are both supremely easier to drive, giving me a sense of predictability and ease where the E36 was hysterically screaming at me to baby it better. The Supra in particular has a 6–speed stick shift, and wouldn't even fit under our Weekly Lobbies' regulations even on gimped tyres simply because it's so much faster than the E36. The turbocharged cars also propel themselves out of corners better with solid walls of mid–range torque, and the GT-R even has AWD to help with that. And those are the fat pigs of the "276HP era" of Japanese sports cars; the E36 wouldn't even be a half–decent appetiser for the more athletic cars from that era like FD RX-7 and NA NSX-R.
The E36, like many cars of its era, is a pretty good car with its share of flaws and quirks. What damns the E36 in my mind is that it's a relatively affordable high–performance machine that looks like it would fit right into the early Gran Turismo games, competing with the "276HP era" cars those games made legends among a generation of kids. It's precisely because the E36 finds itself in this era and performance bracket that means it has to be held to so much higher a standard than usual, because there are just so many other options to choose from, many of which have had the privilege of imprinting upon an impressionable child's mind, becoming heroes to many. If it can't even outrun or out–handle a Supra, it has no chance of even being on my radar when I'm swooning over the beautiful curves of an FD RX-7, both on and off a track. I guess one can make the argument that it's by far the cheapest among its contemporaries here in GT7, but eh...
While the flaws of the E36—namely its soft suspension and chassis—do have easy fixes, why bother with it when the E46 has six forward gears and a much stiffer chassis to work with as a base for tuning? The E36 really does suffer massively from the middle child syndrome, and, at least among the M3s represented in the game, really is the worst one. If you want sheer driving pleasure, go with the E30. If you want a competent tuning base, the E46 is the way to go, and the E92 is... there, for moral support with its big F–off V8 engine.
Dogbox BoneStock: Biewer Terrier by RMedia_Obelisk
#biewer #bonestock #dogbox
Chainsaw Man Makima E36 M3 by XSquareStickIt
#chainsawman #makima #itasha
Chainsaw Man Makima E36 (Wide) by XSquareStickIt
#chainsawman #makima #itasha
As Gran Turismo 7 players are most likely aware however, the E36 is notorious in this game for thus far having a very troubled existence since it was added in Update 1.49 back in July of 2024, the very same update that overhauled the game's physics and brought with it some unfortunate and sometimes hilarious quirks. The E36 never did have astronaut aspirations, but it was softly sprung enough to encounter problems with the game's physics that seemed to punish cars with soft suspension in befuddling ways, though I'm convinced that there must also be other factors at play that make the issue so persistently afflict the E36. Watching back publicly shared replays of the E36 pre v1.55, it seemed as if the cars or their drivers just steered themselves off the paved track for no apparent reason right into a wall, with no ostensible attempt at resisting their violent fates along the way, sometimes even on relatively straight stretches of tarmac. While said glitch does appear to have toned down in severity, that catastrophic behaviour is still very much present in v1.55, and it will still catch out drivers at the worst of times. My E36 lost itself on Turn 3 of Eiger Nordwand, a slow, downhill right–hander, and with less than half throttle clear out of the powerband of the NA Straight 6, my E36 just speared off towards the inside barrier near the exit of the turn, as though it gave into a long–closeted fetish for Barry R and his facial reconstruction prowess. I of course am in no position to comment on how true to life that reaction to my inputs is, but in the context of this game and in comparison to many of the cars it has, some of which very close in performance, layout, and era to the E36, that's just behaviour I can't expect, explain, nor accept.
In the context of a review of a car in a video game, that's all that would be enough to write off the E36, but in the interest of being fair and thorough, the E36's issues hardly end at a silly glitch. It may have been declared Car & Driver's Best–Handling Car in 1997, but here in Gran Turismo 7, the E36 is going up against a NSX-R instead of a bloody NSX-T, it's going up against something that was never unleashed upon the states in the GT-R, and it's also got more power to tie itself up in knots, being the EU spec that comes to us at 316HP (236kW) instead of a meek 240HP (179kW) the US spec cars had. And in this digital landscape where in theory only the best trims of each model is represented, the E36 I find struggles horrendously to keep up with its digital peers.
It's not just the springs of the E36 that are soft; its chassis feels like it has about as much structural integrity as a truss made of toothpicks tied together with rubber bands. The way in which the E36 approaches its limits is annoyingly not linear, requiring disproportionate effort and care to get the last 10% of its handling envelope out of the car. The car starts off nimble and light on its feet, belying its hefty 1,460kg (3,219lbs) mass and showcasing immediate response and even an accompanying screamer of a soundtrack that together would smite anyone with petrol in their blood. It keeps that agility and responsiveness on hard braking and trail braking, all the way until I'm almost entirely off the brakes and give the steering wheel a harder twist to meet the apex, at which point the car feels as if it hits a metaphorical wall, refusing to turn any more than it's already doing and stressing the tyres into screaming hysteria, often resulting in me missing the apex by about half a car width. Despite being a rather heavy and softly sprung car, rumble strips and road camber greatly upset the E36, the former causing it to squirm vaguely and often requiring quick flashes of counter steer just to keep it pointing in the right direction, with the outside of the last turn of Road Atlanta (a relatively flat and innocuous rumble strip) being a good example. Cutting corners with more raised kerbs, such as the awful chicane of Nürburgring GP or the Bus Stop of Watkins Glen is a crapshoot, because the car just feels incredibly vague when thrown off balance or upset. And when the E36 M3 slides, it's completely numb and catastrophically ceases all communication to its driver. Losing grip in an E36 is like watching a horror movie; I'm terrified, but I can have no more influence and involvement in the affair beyond being terrified. Overall, it's just a car I never came to gel with nor trust under any circumstance, and it was just pure frustration in a racing scenario.
Of course, cars from that era are never without flaws. And so I thought I'd do what car reviewers in real life do, and conduct my own comparison tests. I brought along with me an A80 Supra RZ and a R33 GT-R V • spec, both 2–door Inline 6 sports cars and 1997 models. Even when downgrading the Japanese cars from their default Sports Hard tyres down to match the E36's Comfort Softs, they are both supremely easier to drive, giving me a sense of predictability and ease where the E36 was hysterically screaming at me to baby it better. The Supra in particular has a 6–speed stick shift, and wouldn't even fit under our Weekly Lobbies' regulations even on gimped tyres simply because it's so much faster than the E36. The turbocharged cars also propel themselves out of corners better with solid walls of mid–range torque, and the GT-R even has AWD to help with that. And those are the fat pigs of the "276HP era" of Japanese sports cars; the E36 wouldn't even be a half–decent appetiser for the more athletic cars from that era like FD RX-7 and NA NSX-R.
The E36, like many cars of its era, is a pretty good car with its share of flaws and quirks. What damns the E36 in my mind is that it's a relatively affordable high–performance machine that looks like it would fit right into the early Gran Turismo games, competing with the "276HP era" cars those games made legends among a generation of kids. It's precisely because the E36 finds itself in this era and performance bracket that means it has to be held to so much higher a standard than usual, because there are just so many other options to choose from, many of which have had the privilege of imprinting upon an impressionable child's mind, becoming heroes to many. If it can't even outrun or out–handle a Supra, it has no chance of even being on my radar when I'm swooning over the beautiful curves of an FD RX-7, both on and off a track. I guess one can make the argument that it's by far the cheapest among its contemporaries here in GT7, but eh...
While the flaws of the E36—namely its soft suspension and chassis—do have easy fixes, why bother with it when the E46 has six forward gears and a much stiffer chassis to work with as a base for tuning? The E36 really does suffer massively from the middle child syndrome, and, at least among the M3s represented in the game, really is the worst one. If you want sheer driving pleasure, go with the E30. If you want a competent tuning base, the E46 is the way to go, and the E92 is... there, for moral support with its big F–off V8 engine.
jrbabbitt
Premium
- 3,051
- Charleston, SC
- TCR_JimyBee
Hello, I had both in my garage already and were in stock condition. I looked up the price of the new Cayman and I found it to be 130,000 Cr and could not find the price of a used 911 Gt3 (997) so I stuck with the 130k which leaves me 10k to use for mods. I tuned the both to same with 4,500cr SS tyres and 4,000cr Sports suspension to give me a level base to make my judgements and test drives on.
I saved my best laps on both and uploaded them under the title COTW and posting the YT videos here.
I will post the times here when I get home tonight.
As for which car I would choose, I based my choice on handling over speed and it was a close run because with my driving and running a clean lap with both I found there was about a one second difference between the two. My choice is for the 911 GT3 (997) for the better handling overall with the setups I have done on both. I will make another run with both in a total stock condition to see any differences and post tonight when I get home.
I saved my best laps on both and uploaded them under the title COTW and posting the YT videos here.
I will post the times here when I get home tonight.
As for which car I would choose, I based my choice on handling over speed and it was a close run because with my driving and running a clean lap with both I found there was about a one second difference between the two. My choice is for the 911 GT3 (997) for the better handling overall with the setups I have done on both. I will make another run with both in a total stock condition to see any differences and post tonight when I get home.
Last edited:
jrbabbitt
Premium
- 3,051
- Charleston, SC
- TCR_JimyBee
Ok last night I changed both cars to stock conditions and ran the best laps I could which was not easy as the SH tyres tend to lose grip easier than the SS tyres and I kept on hitting walls here and there. I uploaded my replays under the COTW titles but did not record live footage for YT postings.
Below are my times for modified and stock runs. As for which car I would pick in a stock condition it would be the Cayman only for its stability and handling, even though it was slower it was more controllable whereas the 911GT3 was all over the place even at slower pace. My test drives in both proved to me that even small things as a change of tyres and a better suspension does improve the cars overall .
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