Career mode progression/Microtransactions changed the game already ?

[FishHunters]

Here's another point: Am I a hired race driver or am I a owner/driver? Owner/drivers have to pay everyone, and buy all the equipment, maintenance, engines, tires, overhaul the cars? If thats the way you're treating me then pay me like it. If I was a hired driver then pay me as a driver and give me everything else free.

 

[Rionmoon]

I don't know, in GT5 I remember saving for a couple of days until I could finally afford a new Camaro. After one hour of GT6 last night I've already got enough to buy that same car. GT5 didn't have log in bonuses or high paying seasonal events at launch, those things came later. I remember doing about 50 races at Indy - boring as hell - just to win enough to buy a 5 million credit Formula GT.

I remember that scenario too. Hopefully in time PD will get the hint that microtransactions are not the way to go and start with better payouts for races.

If I remember correctly it was a while before GT5 started with bigger payouts.

Also, when more seasonal events come on line I'm hoping that payouts will start to increase.

 

[Rionmoon]

I do not agree with this 'modern' line of reasoning, which states that you should be able to do whatever you want within a game. Where is the challenge or sense of accomplishment, when you can just cut corners?

I'm about as old as it get here and I've been playing video games and grinding since PONG and Atari consoles. I agree there is a sense of satisfaction in earning something in a game through achievement however wanting to be able to enjoy aspects of a game you paid for is equally important. More important still is the issue where PD puts cars in the game that are 20 million credits and then sets the payout for races at an obnoxiously low rate.

As of today, Dec 15th I have raced in 153 races, earned a total of $3,977,110 credits and invested 22 hours of game play.

That breaks down to: $25,995 per race and $180,778 credits an hour OR $3,013 credits a minute. Sounds great until you break down buying ONE $20,000,000 car.

ONE $20 million credit car at this rate equals 111 HOURS of driving. That's 4 and a half DAYS of nonstop driving or 4 24 hours at Le Mans events. Considering most people only get to play an hour or to be generous two a day, that's somewhere around 2 months of driving. I don't know about magburner or others but I don't have the time to drive that much just to buy the Ferrari or whatever I want. I'm going to get bored and move back to GT5 LONG before I dive that much for one car.

Let's just acknowledge as a community of players that microtransactions are gimmicky and designed to strip money from gullible players and that the economy in GT 6 is bad and needs to be fixed if PD and Sony expect their players to stick with this game over a long period of time.

​

 

[Ibis1221]

I remember that scenario too. Hopefully in time PD will get the hint that microtransactions are not the way to go and start with better payouts for races.

If I remember correctly it was a while before GT5 started with bigger payouts.

Also, when more seasonal events come on line I'm hoping that payouts will start to increase.

The problem is this shouldn't have happen in the first place. PD already learns from GT5 that the payout structure they had was crap and they have to introduce PP bonus, login bonus and seasonal events to make it bearable. So why repeat the same mistake in GT6? The removal of PP bonus and login bonus coupled with the introduction of microtransaction only served to fuel the notion this economy structure is what PD wanted and nothing more.

 

[PsuPepperoni]

With the scrubs all glitching for free money now, I've kind of lost my will to collect all the cars. It won't mean anything.

I just wish PD would add some cars that are prize-only, so you can show of your skill/persistence without seeing cheaters driving the car you worked hard for.

 

[Vivi22]

I'm about as old as it get here and I've been playing video games and grinding since PONG and Atari consoles. I agree there is a sense of satisfaction in earning something in a game through achievement however wanting to be able to enjoy aspects of a game you paid for is equally important. More important still is the issue where PD puts cars in the game that are 20 million credits and then sets the payout for races at an obnoxiously low rate.

As of today, Dec 15th I have raced in 153 races, earned a total of $3,977,110 credits and invested 22 hours of game play.

That breaks down to: $25,995 per race and $180,778 credits an hour OR $3,013 credits a minute. Sounds great until you break down buying ONE $20,000,000 car.

ONE $20 million credit car at this rate equals 111 HOURS of driving. That's 4 and a half DAYS of nonstop driving or 4 24 hours at Le Mans events. Considering most people only get to play an hour or to be generous two a day, that's somewhere around 2 months of driving. I don't know about magburner or others but I don't have the time to drive that much just to buy the Ferrari or whatever I want. I'm going to get bored and move back to GT5 LONG before I dive that much for one car.

Let's just acknowledge as a community of players that microtransactions are gimmicky and designed to strip money from gullible players and that the economy in GT 6 is bad and needs to be fixed if PD and Sony expect their players to stick with this game over a long period of time.

​

Firstly, your math is based on faulty assumptions. 20 million credits would only require 31 hours of grinding the third Like the Wind race. Still a long time, but B-spec is coming down the road so it won't be as bad as the excessive amounts of whining going on would have you believe. Second, if the BMW M4 seasonal is any indication, seasonal payouts are increasing, so even less time if that's the case.

Third, the economy in GT6 is no worse than any of the first few GT games. Maybe slightlywith fewer prize cars and an inability to repeatedly win them, but still head and shoulders above GT5 at launch. I would like to see the payouts go up a bit in 6, and they probably will, but hopefully they won't go to the game breaking levels they did in GT5. But things aren't nearly as dire as some want to believe, and aside from all that we have a better GT game than we've had since at least 4. That's not a bad deal I think. But you wouldn't know it since the GT community seems to complain about anything and everything to an extent that would make Mass Effect 3 fans blush.

I've gotten to IA so far and haven't found myself wanting for money at all. And I've been having fun playing a damn fun GT title. That's all I care about.

 

[fm_1013]

With the scrubs all glitching for free money now, I've kind of lost my will to collect all the cars. It won't mean anything.

I just wish PD would add some cars that are prize-only, so you can show of your skill/persistence without seeing cheaters driving the car you worked hard for.

You are confusing two different things. This "glitch" does not make you a better driver, nor does it prevent you from being one.

If you measure your skills by the kind of car(s) you were able to "win"... a monkey playing GT6 long enough would achieve the same thing, it would just take him longer. Would that make the monkey a better driver? I don't think so.

The way the game is set up, your skills are not very relevant in terms of accumulating enough credits to buy an expensive car. You can be the worst driver, and still collect enough credits if you spend enough time at it. Or if you give you wallet to Sony.

With the AI letting you win, those "achievements" do not reflect your skills, either.

The only real way to really measure your skills, is against other drivers in similar cars. And this "glitch" is no help to you there at all. So what's the problem?

 

[SkierPS3]

There are definitely way more prize cars in GT5. Part of that I think is the fact that there are way less races in GT6, but at the same time each series in GT5 gave a car, but now you only get a couple for doing an entire license.

 

[Rionmoon]

Firstly, your math is based on faulty assumptions. 20 million credits would only require 31 hours of grinding the third Like the Wind race. Still a long time, but B-spec is coming down the road so it won't be as bad as the excessive amounts of whining going on would have you believe. Second, if the BMW M4 seasonal is any indication, seasonal payouts are increasing, so even less time if that's the case.

Third, the economy in GT6 is no worse than any of the first few GT games. Maybe slightlywith fewer prize cars and an inability to repeatedly win them, but still head and shoulders above GT5 at launch. I would like to see the payouts go up a bit in 6, and they probably will, but hopefully they won't go to the game breaking levels they did in GT5. But things aren't nearly as dire as some want to believe, and aside from all that we have a better GT game than we've had since at least 4. That's not a bad deal I think. But you wouldn't know it since the GT community seems to complain about anything and everything to an extent that would make Mass Effect 3 fans blush.

I've gotten to IA so far and haven't found myself wanting for money at all. And I've been having fun playing a damn fun GT title. That's all I care about.

1. Its' a faulty assumption to assume that B-Spec will in any way mitigate the payout problem of GT6. Just because it did in GT5 and you could set up a system to let B Spec Bob race overnight doesn't mean it will come back that way in GT 6.
2. 31 hours is indeed a long time. Adults with jobs and families don't have hours a day to sit and grind the same race over and over. Only someone suffering from some personality disorder like OCD would consider that a viable option. At two hours a day - witch I think we can agree would be a lot of time for someone with a family and a job or even a responsible college or high school student - thats still 15 and a half days of grinding just to afford ONE Ferrari 250 GTO. That's not reasonable or acceptable by any stretch of imagination in a game.
   
3. you're right that it's not worse than GT5 when GT5 was first released but here is where you should reconsider your stance: GT5 did not have a microtransaction for in-game credits tied to it. PD and it's overlord Sony have little incentive to change anything in the GT economy as long as it drives players to spending more real world money to buy credits while evilly smiling and saying "you can play the game just fine without buying credits" which is a truth but also failing to mention the very expensive vehicles are almost out of anybody's reach without WEEKS of girding or buying credits.

I hope you're right about GT 6 and things will level out like they did with GT5. When given the choice between corporate greed and standing by customers, I'm going to believe a multi-billion dollar company is going to protect its bottom line and hope the customers they loose will be replaced by new rubes.

 

[PsuPepperoni]

You are confusing two different things. This "glitch" does not make you a better driver, nor does it prevent you from being one.

If you measure your skills by the kind of car(s) you were able to "win"... a monkey playing GT6 long enough would achieve the same thing, it would just take him longer. Would that make the monkey a better driver? I don't think so.

The way the game is set up, your skills are not very relevant in terms of accumulating enough credits to buy an expensive car. You can be the worst driver, and still collect enough credits if you spend enough time at it. Or if you give you wallet to Sony.

I just wish PD would add some cars that are prize-only, so you can show of your skill/persistence without seeing cheaters driving the car you worked hard for.

I was thinking more of prize cars from time trials.

 

[magburner]

where is the sense of challenge in grinding the same super easy event hours and hours and hours and hours to get enough credits to buy a car? or maybe it is a sense of challenge to punch in your real-life credit card in the game and buy things? I have been gaming since the beginning (meaning, I remember when pong came out, to give you an idea) and this whole concept of gaming-as-a-job is something I wish had not taken hold as firmly as it has.

I think you have misunderstood my intentions. I am a veteran gamer myself, having played games for more than thirty years. I was not suggesting that grinding was the only way to play this game, the fact that you have to grind in such a way is proof that the core of this game has been poorly implemented. The only reason that I favour grinding, is that it is the only method that holds true to the Gran Turismo ethos. You start with nothing, and turn it into something. Except in GT6, you start with nothing, and you get nothing!

The fact that PD have chosen to exploit the grind, and funnel games down other avenues, such as hacking, or micro transactions, speaks volumes. There is nothing wrong with grinding, if there is progression and purpose. Previous games offered a reasonable method to afford even the most expensive cars, I do not mind a couple of nights work, to gain a highly sort after car, but the mechanics of this latest game do not favour this.

You want to 'earn' things? you should clamor for games where getting all golds is next to impossible, and cars are gated behind skill challenges not "who has the most time and the highest boredom threshold or real-life money" challenges. Or do you think that attaching a rubber band to your controller and wasting energy by keeping your PS3 on for hours is skillful? It's like in days of yore going to the arcades and seeing that your friend had beaten you on the leaderboards in Gyruss, you knew it's because he improved, not because he attached a rubber band to the joystick for 6 hours while he kept adding quarters and watching tv.

This is a moot point, as I do not use cheats, glitches, or micro-transactions. I was not aware of an elastic band modification either, as I use a wheel for driving. 👍

If events were made in such a way that the more you play them the harder they get (and the higher their payout) then that would be different, say every time you play an A-spec race the AI is artificially made to go 0.5 seconds faster per lap, and the payout is doubled, you are always challenged, and it's not a "grind", it would be fun to see how far you can go. That would preserve a sense of progression and accomplishment without making it feel like a job, why can't it be like that?

I could not agree with you more. 👍

Fortunately the allure of grinding for tens of hours to play a slightly-different-skinned-car is not very strong for me, as long as I can get enough cars to race online in spec rooms via the career it's good enough for me: I enjoy racing games for the competition, and you can have extremely fun races in all sorts of cars, without spending 200 hours grinding for one.

Again, I could not agree with you more. In anther post, and with another forum member, I had been relating much the same thing.

I'm about as old as it get here and I've been playing video games and grinding since PONG and Atari consoles. I agree there is a sense of satisfaction in earning something in a game through achievement however wanting to be able to enjoy aspects of a game you paid for is equally important. More important still is the issue where PD puts cars in the game that are 20 million credits and then sets the payout for races at an obnoxiously low rate.

As of today, Dec 15th I have raced in 153 races, earned a total of $3,977,110 credits and invested 22 hours of game play.

That breaks down to: $25,995 per race and $180,778 credits an hour OR $3,013 credits a minute. Sounds great until you break down buying ONE $20,000,000 car.

ONE $20 million credit car at this rate equals 111 HOURS of driving. That's 4 and a half DAYS of nonstop driving or 4 24 hours at Le Mans events. Considering most people only get to play an hour or to be generous two a day, that's somewhere around 2 months of driving. I don't know about magburner or others but I don't have the time to drive that much just to buy the Ferrari or whatever I want. I'm going to get bored and move back to GT5 LONG before I dive that much for one car.

Let's just acknowledge as a community of players that microtransactions are gimmicky and designed to strip money from gullible players and that the economy in GT 6 is bad and needs to be fixed if PD and Sony expect their players to stick with this game over a long period of time.

I was not defending the mechanics of GT6, I was looking back at previous games, perhaps with rose-tinted glasses, and reminiscing the grind in those games. There is nothing wrong with working for a car, though PD are extracting urine, expecting us hapless fans to grind without end.

I myself have won very few credits, which I have sunk almost entirely into a Sprinter. Fortunately, I brought the Anniversary Edition, so I started with 1m credits. Still, I am mindful of the costs of upgrading and buying cars, and I have saved the 800k I still have left, not wanting to bite into it, because of the pitiful in-game rewards.

I am enjoying the game though, I like the physics, and I have seen the tracks in a new light, and I love the solitary car that I have brought, immensely.

 

[wdreamsmaycome]

The only reason that I favour grinding, is that it is the only method that holds true to the Gran Turismo ethos.

I think we disagree on the meaning of the word grinding here for me grinding = something that just takes time and no skill, racing the same race over and over where you beat the AI by 10 seconds every time, or "racing" an oval with a rubber band on the controller so the car turns by itself, or "racing" b-spec while watching TV, no challenge, wasted time.

Racing over and over CHALLENGING races for payouts to buy a car, is not grinding: that is what playing the game should be all about, if I have to race 200 times having to work super hard to win by 0.5 sec to buy the car I want it's not a grind, it's fun! just like how in days of yore you "grinded" one quarter at a time to better your score.

I don't have anything against games that take a long time to complete, far from it, I just dislike games that arbitrarily introduce "work-like" content to either pad their length or to (even worse) tempt people into paying more money to skip the "work". And when you have a way to funnel real cash towards game cash there is too much of an incentive for a developer to create subtle ongoing money sinks (say, "chassis rigidity" needing to be restored often at high prices, for example) and to tilt the economy (making online payouts extremely low) so that even if you managed to buy the car you wanted you would still either have to "work" or buy credits in order to keep racing.

If I wanted to make GT fun and not feel like a job (while having some sense of progression) I would:

- remove the expensive car maintenance (car prices are already high enough, without ongoing money sinks)
- increase the online payouts to ~100k or so for a win for a min 5 lap race with 10 racers and scale down accordingly
- after the first win remove the rubber banding and artificially speed up the AI 0.5s/lap after every player win doubling the payout every time (and removing payout for bronze/silver, gold or nothing)

but if one did that there would be very little incentive to use microtransactions as one could play the game as-is without feeling artificially gated by low currency rewards.