Carroll Shelby Cup - Coming Soon - Sunday 3PM GMT Timeslot.

[carracerptp]

I drove both of these last night at Nurb GP/D, I can't see anybody seriously taking the Cobra. It took me about 7-8 laps in the Cobra before I had a "clean" lap that I could use as a benchmark time, I brought out the Ford and demolished my time by over two seconds on just my third lap, it grew to 3 seconds by the 6th lap (and the car was in dire need of an oil change/rebuild). The Cobra is going to have to brake sooooo much earlier for every turn that it's just going to be getting rear-ended by drivers in the Ford. Plus, anybody in the Cobra is very likely to be off-track or facing the wrong direction about every 2-3 laps.

I understand the sentiment by including the Cobra but it's going to get ugly really quick. I thoroughly enjoyed driving the Ford and would really like to race it (although not on racing tires), but I don't think I'll be running in any races that have the Cobra on track because it's not going to be pretty.


And FYI, each car had barely enough gear for the straight at Nurb GP/D. I hit the limiter in both of them right at the braking point, add a bit of draft that and you'll be bouncing off the limiter about half way down the straight and won't be likely to pull off a pass. At a track with a longer straight this would be a real issue.

I really loved the Cobra when I ran it on SH, but I was driving like grandma when it came to braking points.

I would like to say that Spa Francorchamps is a terrible track for these cars.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

You could maybe have two grids: set the GT350 off 20 seconds after the Cobras or vice versa.

Or have the slower cars in a separate rolling start, 4/500 yards behind the other. 👍

Also, maybe have both cars on Sports soft tyres?

 

[BrandonW77]

Cobra is on SH tyres though. Ford is on RH.

I do agree with Brandon's point to an extent. I do think the Cobra should be faster so maybe a tyre upgrade? Or degrade for the Ford?

The Cobra should be faster (on paper) but you have to drive it so gently and brake so early that it ends up being at a huge disadvantage. You must be oh so gentle with the throttle coming out of the turns but in the Ford you can get the power down pretty early (especially on RH tires).

I understand the love for the Cobra, I just don't think it can be matched up against another car. Even on racing tires the Cobra is an extreme handful and the gentle touch required will always negate it's power advantage. It is very hard to drive, but the Ford can really be pushed hard and driven hard and that creates quite a gap between them. Perhaps in very capable hands the Cobra would perform better, but I still don't think it would match up to the Ford on a track.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

The Cobra should be faster (on paper) but you have to drive it so gently and brake so early that it ends up being at a huge disadvantage. You must be oh so gentle with the throttle coming out of the turns but in the Ford you can get the power down pretty early (especially on RH tires).

I understand the love for the Cobra, I just don't think it can be matched up against another car. Even on racing tires the Cobra is an extreme handful and the gentle touch required will always negate it's power advantage. It is very hard to drive, but the Ford can really be pushed hard and driven hard and that creates quite a gap between them. Perhaps in very capable hands the Cobra would perform better, but I still don't think it would match up to the Ford on a track.

It isn't supposed to match up to the Ford. They are in separate classes. 👍

Hence why you could avoid chaos at the start by having to groups at the warmup lap then the 2nd class would go 10 seconds or so after the first.

 

[Carbonox]

I don't think I can make it except for maybe an odd race, as I have begun to try and cut down my series, as some people know already.

 

[BrandonW77]

It isn't supposed to match up to the Ford. They are in separate classes. 👍

Hence why you could avoid chaos at the start by having to groups at the warmup lap then the 2nd class would go 10 seconds or so after the first.

Sorry, didn't realize that. Your suggestion is very necessary then, you really don't want these two cars anywhere near each other on the track. If 2 Ford drivers are battling and they have to deal with a loosey-goosey Cobra sliding all around them, well it won't be pretty!

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Sorry, didn't realize that. Your suggestion is very necessary then, you really don't want these two cars anywhere near each other on the track. If 2 Ford drivers are battling and they have to deal with a loosey-goosey Cobra sliding all around them, well it won't be pretty!

Yeah, I realised that when you started talking about lap times. 👍


I think having the Fords start first is the best option. That way on slower tracks the Fords will pull away and maybe only lap the Cobras once they're spread out. And on faster tracks the Cobras will overtake on the straights, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Let's wait to see what Dax says.

 

[Gedi69]

The more i think about this the more im wanting to do it,as long as it starts after the 18th may.

 

[DaxCobra]

The more i think about this the more im wanting to do it,as long as it starts after the 18th may.

Well the 18th of may is before this Sunday so it will definitally start after then.

Come on, join in.

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I want the Cobra to be the faster class, and so I think the Mustang will get a tyre downgrade to Sports Softs.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Well the 18th of may is before this Sunday so it will definitally start before then.

Come on, join in.

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I want the Cobra to be the faster class, and so I think the Mustang will get a tyre downgrade to Sports Softs.

That will probably work, although I still think the Mustang will be faster on the twistier tracks. 👍

Le Mans NC- the Cobra will destroy the 'stang.

 

[DaxCobra]

See, I want it like this.


Cobra - Hard to drive, fastest to the point where it will lap the mustang in a race.

'Stang - Easy to drive

 

[Gedi69]

so it starts this sunday then?

 

[DaxCobra]

so it starts this sunday then?

It will start as soon as we get enough numbers, but I might set a date for next weekend.

Edit: Fixed my last reply to you, should clear things up.

Edit2: GT1's still have 2 weekends left so it will be at least 3 weeks away.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

It will start as soon as we get enough numbers, but I might set a date for next weekend.

Isn't it still GT1s for the next 2 weeks. EDIT: Tree'd


If you want the Cobra to lap the Mustang I reckon it needs to be on the same tyres.

But putting the GT350 on SH makes it tricky to drive too (not so much as the Cobra, but still).

 

[DaxCobra]

Isn't it still GT1s for the next 2 weeks. EDIT: Tree'd


If you want the Cobra to lap the Mustang I reckon it needs to be on the same tyres.

But putting the GT350 on SH makes it tricky to drive too (not so much as the Cobra, but still).

I tuned my GT350 so if anyone wants to send me a spare I can get this sorted.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

I tuned my GT350 so if anyone wants to send me a spare I can get this sorted.

I do, but can't get to a PS3 until Friday. And I don't really want to give my high mileage one away because we've been through a lot. <3

 

[BrandonW77]

See, I want it like this.


Cobra - Hard to drive, fastest to the point where it will lap the mustang in a race.

'Stang - Easy to drive

I don't think the Cobra's going to be lapping anything, it's just too hard to drive. Like I said, I was 3 seconds faster in a used Mustang that had the oil light on and needed an engine rebuild. It doesn't matter what you do with tires, I don't think you can balance that gap. At a track like le Sarthe with no chicanes neither car will be able to pull away because they'll be bouncing off the rev limiter and basically coasting several hundred meters every few seconds.

I'm not trying to be difficult or rain on your parade, just trying to help point out the reality of these cars. I've done a lot of testing of cars and tracks....a LOT....and I just see some inherent problems here that need to be sorted before you kick of a series. 👍 But on the other hand it seems most of your series run with the same core group of guys and I don't get the impression any of them would care about these issues, so maybe they are non-issues.

 

[DaxCobra]

Well I didn't really want this to be much of a serious series, just a tribute to Carroll Shelby, if it was a proper one I would have tested by now.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

I don't think the Cobra's going to be lapping anything, it's just too hard to drive. Like I said, I was 3 seconds faster in a used Mustang that had the oil light on and needed an engine rebuild. It doesn't matter what you do with tires, I don't think you can balance that gap. At a track like le Sarthe with no chicanes neither car will be able to pull away because they'll be bouncing off the rev limiter and basically coasting several hundred meters every few seconds.

I'm not trying to be difficult or rain on your parade, just trying to help point out the reality of these cars. I've done a lot of testing of cars and tracks....a LOT....and I just see some inherent problems here that need to be sorted before you kick of a series. 👍 But on the other hand it seems most of your series run with the same core group of guys and I don't get the impression any of them would care about these issues, so maybe they are non-issues.

I think if you put them both on Sport Soft tyres the Cobra would be equal on the slower tracks, if not slightly faster.

The Cobra destroys the Mustang on the straights due to a higher top speed and acceleration and at faster tracks like La Sarthe and Monza, the Cobra will be miles ahead. 👍

As far as I know bouncing off the rev limiter will only be a problem at the faster tracks. Everywhere else you only just reach it before braking/only for a short time.

And I'm sure looking forward to this, no matter what issues there are.

 

[DaxCobra]

Still really want the Cobra to be the higher tier and for it to run on the sports hards....

Damnit!

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Still really want the Cobra to be the higher tier and for it to run on the sports hards....

Damnit!

The only way to get that is have the GT350 on SH as well. But then the GT350 becomes tricky to drive as well.

 

[BrandonW77]

As far as I know bouncing off the rev limiter will only be a problem at the faster tracks. Everywhere else you only just reach it before braking/only for a short time.

Don't forget to take extra speed from the draft into consideration. If you hit the limiter by yourself you'll really be bouncing off it in a draft.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Don't forget to take extra speed from the draft into consideration. If you hit the limiter by yourself you'll really be bouncing off it in a draft.

Yes, but my point was that at Laguna and Monaco, you're only bouncing off the limiter for a very small portion of the track.

Although, I'm not bothered by it to be honest. I think La Sarthe will be the best race. (not at all biased with this track .)

 

[BrandonW77]

Got it. I'll keep my concerns to myself from now on.

 

[DaxCobra]

No worries, it's certainly something to look into 👍

 

[Carbonox]

The hitting the limiter part reminds me of my GT4 days when I couldn't tune my tranny that properly... that Chevelle kept topping up long before the front straight of New York was over... thankfully I still won that muscle car championship with pure skill.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Got it. I'll keep my concerns to myself from now on.

Please share them. I'm just putting forward my opinion on them. Which is that the rev limiter doesn't bother me. 👍

Improvements can't be made if people don't share their concerns. 👍

 

[BrandonW77]

Please share them. I'm just putting forward my opinion on them. Which is that the rev limiter doesn't bother me. 👍

Improvements can't be made if people don't share their concerns. 👍

As a league director, hitting the rev limiter is a concern to me because it's going to have a negative impact on the racing and likely result in complaining (under normal circumstances). But you guys are a different group and have different objectives, so if hitting the rev limiter isn't an issue to you guys then I won't keep harping on it.

As Dax said, this isn't supposed to be a serious series, just meant to celebrate the man and the cars that were Shelby. If that's the case, the cars should be run as they are since that's the only true way to enjoy them and celebrate them, whatever their strengths/weaknesses may be. 👍

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

As a league director, hitting the rev limiter is a concern to me because it's going to have a negative impact on the racing and likely result in complaining (under normal circumstances). But you guys are a different group and have different objectives, so if hitting the rev limiter isn't an issue to you guys then I won't keep harping on it.

As Dax said, this isn't supposed to be a serious series, just meant to celebrate the man and the cars that were Shelby. If that's the case, the cars should be run as they are since that's the only true way to enjoy them and celebrate them, whatever their strengths/weaknesses may be. 👍

Exactly. Many people will have a problem with the rev limiter. I'm just saying that it doesn't bother me, because everyone is in the same boat, at least that's my opinion and people can feel free to disagree with me. 👍

I'm pretty sure, they'll be something more focused like FIA GT1 season 4 or something after this.

 

[DaxCobra]

Exactly. Many people will have a problem with the rev limiter. I'm just saying that it doesn't bother me, because everyone is in the same boat, at least that's my opinion and people can feel free to disagree with me. 👍

I'm pretty sure, they'll be something more focused like FIA GT1 season 4 or something after this.

Maybe we should run both the Cobra and the Mustang on Sports Softs.

Cobra still gives a challenge on those.