Chaparral 2J penalty!

[brooster]

I just updated to 2.03 and was looking forward to the new Chaparral 2J adjustable downforce that was mentioned in the info on then 2.03 update.

I'm 60 yrs old and I remember when the 2J tried to race in the Can-Am and people threw rocks on the course before two races and took the 2J out of the race.

Forty years later and I get the 2.03 update looking forward to the improvements on the 2J with adjustable downforce and out comes the gravel.

No improved adjustable downforce. All I got was increased performance points penalties for the downforce.

Best said, it SUCKS!!

 

[Tornado]

Now I admit that they did a terrible job explaining what the patch would do before it went live, but there wasn't really anything on the real car that could be adjusted.

 

[amar212]

I think you should know how real-life 2J - the same that rocks were thrown on - didn't actually have any adjustable aero-part.

Whole unique aero-construction of the 2J with the fans and creation of ground-effect with below-the-car aero was a *reply* by Jim Hall (constructor) to the issues and bans of the 1966 2E model because of the movable aero-parts. So, in construction of the 2J adjustable aero was not an option.

2J didn't even had any "wings" on front while rear-side stability was achieved only with a fixed angled piece of polycarbonate. Thus, no adjusting was possible. Change of PP values probably reflects the overall performance of the 2J with some invisible values regarding other cars when aero-data are put into equation.

Also, nobody ever said anything about adding an option to adjust aero on 2J. Here is the official description of the particular change:

The increased performance due to the downforce produced by the fan is now calculated in the performance points of the Chaparral 2J race car.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I just updated to 2.03 and was looking forward to the new Chaparral 2J adjustable downforce that was mentioned in the info on then 2.03 update.

I'm 60 yrs old and I remember when the 2J tried to race in the Can-Am and people threw rocks on the course before two races and took the 2J out of the race.

Forty years later and I get the 2.03 update looking forward to the improvements on the 2J with adjustable downforce and out comes the gravel.

No improved adjustable downforce. All I got was increased performance points penalties for the downforce.

Best said, it SUCKS!!

Isn't throwing rocks on a race course a crime?

 

[brooster]

Hi Amar212,

I've enjoyed your postings.

I knew that there wasn't any adjustable suck settings on the 2J but I wasn't expecting any penalties in the game.

Nobody could figure out who threw the rocks but it made a bunch of race teams very happy.

 

[cabezzz]

I just updated to 2.03 and was looking forward to the new Chaparral 2J adjustable downforce that was mentioned in the info on then 2.03 update.

I'm 60 yrs old and I remember when the 2J tried to race in the Can-Am and people threw rocks on the course before two races and took the 2J out of the race.

Forty years later and I get the 2.03 update looking forward to the improvements on the 2J with adjustable downforce and out comes the gravel.

No improved adjustable downforce. All I got was increased performance points penalties for the downforce.

Best said, it SUCKS!!

Wish I was there to see those cars race in real life, this post is awesome, and the 2J is still a beast of a car even by today's standards

 

[Brend]

...Even if it does look like a washing machine.

 

[VTiRoj]

Also, nobody ever said anything about adding an option to adjust aero on 2J. Here is the official description of the particular change:

Chaparral 2J Race Car ’70: Fan down force option.

Taken from here.

Note how it says option. Perhaps it was a wrong translation, but that's the reason why a lot of people thought the 2J was going to get adjustable fan downforce. I'm not saying it should be adjustable, but PD did basically tell us it would be an option.

 

[Moontallico]

...Even if it does look like a washing machine.

Really? I wish my washing machine looked like that!

 

[brooster]

Really? I wish my washing machine looked like that!

That could help explain a scene in Uncle Buck!

I bought a PS2 so I could get GT4 and the Chaparrals.

I bought a PS3 so I could get GT5 and drive the new gorgeous updated Chaparrals only to find out they would standard cars.

Now this.

 

[lowwatt]

it really sucks now i cant grind 650 pp anymore

 

[amar212]

..but PD did basically tell us it would be an option.

Hm, hm... I think content of the information on that link actually have nothing to do with PD, but with "info leak" made by one GTP member?

 

[VTiRoj]

Hm, hm... I think content of the information on that link actually have nothing to do with PD, but with "info leak" made by one GTP member?

That is a good point actually. The info probably got twisted a bit somewhere between the source of the information and the leak.

 

[Morgoth_666]

it really sucks now i cant grind 650 pp anymore

The 2J was the only car near 650 pp in the game? I could swear I have a couple...

 

[Giulietta73]

I was expecting the Sarthe B-Spec to be out of reach of the 2J after the update, but its still there for the 2J - an easy cr6,000,000.

 

[bobd]

I'm 60 yrs old and I remember when the 2J tried to race in the Can-Am and people threw rocks on the course before two races and took the 2J out of the race.

Forty years later and I get the 2.03 update looking forward to the improvements on the 2J with adjustable downforce and out comes the gravel.

No improved adjustable downforce. All I got was increased performance points penalties for the downforce.

Best said, it SUCKS!!

I agree, probably because the latest Spa Wet Weather Seasonals has mostly 2Js on its top 30, which spoils the fun a bit for 'proper' LMP users. But then again, how is this game intended to be played is decided by the players, most of the time anyways. Until the developer needs to intervene for game balance issues.

Now, we do realize one thing after brooster enlightening revelation, when the same car needs to be 'restricted' virtually in a game, similar to what happened in real life 40 years ago (via stones on track), tells us a lot about quality of simulation of the game in question, doesn't it ? 👍

The other car manufacturers probably forced PD's hand to restrict the 2J since it always beat their cars in all the races anyways, similar to the stone throwing !

Nissan to PD : Why you let Chapparal beat our fastest R92 & R89 ?!! Block it or you won't get our next newest blackest GT-R in your game !

 

[brooster]

Weird!

I would love to see a download available with the Chaparral 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F and 2J all Premium.
A 2G would be OK but we don’t want no stinking 2H in there.

 

[Blitz24]

Wait? We can throw rocks on the racetrack now? I want to do this and see how the AI reacts to it (probably will crash avoiding it).

Weird!

I would love to see a download available with the Chaparral 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F and 2J all Premium.
A 2G would be OK but we don’t want no stinking 2H in there.

Probably not going to happen sadly.

 

[Rods]

Nissan to PD : Why you let Chapparal beat our fastest R92 & R89 ?!! Block it or you won't get our next newest blackest GT-R in your game !

They just adjusted the PPs for the car.

The 2J was definitely under-categorized with such low Performance Points, and that's just a fix. I agree with it, as a matter of fact...

 

[bobd]

They just adjusted the PPs for the car.

The 2J was definitely under-categorized with such low Performance Points, and that's just a fix. I agree with it, as a matter of fact...

Yup, it was merely a small PP adjustment/boost on PD's part. Glad they are going through each and every car now reviewing bugs and balances.

No hard-feelings towards PD. They are nearing the extra 2-years development time Kaz wanted back in Nov 2010. And I think the game will indeed be finally 'complete' by Nov 2012. No more major bugs yay !

 

[HaylRayzor]

They just adjusted the PPs for the car.

The 2J was definitely under-categorized with such low Performance Points, and that's just a fix. I agree with it, as a matter of fact...

Exactly. It isn't a "penalty" or a "restriction". It's an adjustment to the PP of a car that was out of kilter.

They didn't add weight to the car. They didn't reduce the power. They didn't reduce the downforce. It's exactly the same as before.

It's rating has just been brought more in line with other cars of similar performance.

The whole point of the Performance Points system is that cars with the same PP should have very similar performance.

 

[Morgoth_666]

I agree, probably because the latest Spa Wet Weather Seasonals has mostly 2Js on its top 30, which spoils the fun a bit for 'proper' LMP users. But then again, how is this game intended to be played is decided by the players, most of the time anyways. Until the developer needs to intervene for game balance issues.

...

None of those "proper" LMPs actually qualify for the event without abusing the limiter either. The event should really be for high-end GT1 cars, but until PD restricts use of the limiter and maybe ballast all TTs will remain broken. And there will still usually be a "best" car, it just might take a little longer to find. The 2J still will qualify for the wet TT by the way, unless they've completely changed the event.

 

[zevehcj]

None of those "proper" LMPs actually qualify for the event without abusing the limiter either. The event should really be for high-end GT1 cars, but until PD restricts use of the limiter and maybe ballast all TTs will remain broken. And there will still usually be a "best" car, it just might take a little longer to find. The 2J still will qualify for the wet TT by the way, unless they've completely changed the event.

Exactly. Its the main reason why I don't even look at the leader boards for those time trials anymore. Its either the R390 road car or a car that has been detuned greatly. I always try to use a completely stock car that could actually beat the gold. Sure it might be harder but when you finally get the gold, it feels great. Compared to just grabing the car that everyone uses and knowing ahead of time that you'll get the gold. For example, for the dry Spa time trial, I got 1:40.863 (1:41.000 gold) with a completely stock Ferrari F430 Scuderia (ABS off).

 

[SavageEvil]

None of those "proper" LMPs actually qualify for the event without abusing the limiter either. The event should really be for high-end GT1 cars, but until PD restricts use of the limiter and maybe ballast all TTs will remain broken. And there will still usually be a "best" car, it just might take a little longer to find. The 2J still will qualify for the wet TT by the way, unless they've completely changed the event.

Actually PD forgot to add some things to the LMP, there should be a race setting and time trial setting. These cars didn't run Le Mans with such HP numbers, I always thought it to be absurdly high hp in these cars but in race spec they were running much lower power than that. The Group C cars are the only cars that ran well over 600hp for races, and I checked for stats on these cars seems that Kaz puts these cars in there in their qualify state where they are run full bore no limiters at all. We need that added to have these cars run at competition power. I find it hard to control them at low speeds because of so much power the Audi R8 LMP ran at 610hp not 700+ in the game.

 

[GTP_Monkey]

This is well deserved, The 2J has since game launch beenat a too low pp to be fair.

 

[Tornado]

The Group C cars are the only cars that ran well over 600hp for races, and I checked for stats on these cars seems that Kaz puts these cars in there in their qualify state where they are run full bore no limiters at all.

It's not even that. Most of those cars were never made to run at that power, even in qualifying tune. In fact, a lot of them (NA ones like the 2005 Pescarolo especially) couldn't have physically put out the power numbers PD says they have in the game. They are purely imaginary.



Which is weird, because they generally seemed pretty accurate in GT2.

 

[brooster]

This is well deserved, The 2J has since game launch beenat a too low pp to be fair.

I feel like quoting Yogi Berra all over again.

 

[SavageEvil]

It's not even that. Most of those cars were never made to run at that power, even in qualifying tune. In fact, a lot of them (NA ones like the 2005 Pescarolo especially) couldn't have physically put out the power numbers PD says they have in the game. They are purely imaginary.



Which is weird, because they generally seemed pretty accurate in GT2.

No idea what went wrong with PD regarding only these race cars, but I think we should raise a little hell on that front because these cars are running 100-200hp over what they ever ran in competition. Ever since GT4 races cars come with and insane amount of power especially the LMP and Group C cars, needs to be fixed so these cars would make a bit more sense to drive.

 

[evilKnoxville]

Forty years later and I get the 2.03 update looking forward to the improvements on the 2J with adjustable downforce and out comes the gravel.

I would have been looking forward to interstellar travel and not a bloody update... at least a few things happened the last sixty years; it should get interesting for you at around 4:52

 

[brooster]

I would have been looking forward to interstellar travel and not a bloody update... at least a few things happened the last sixty years; it should get interesting for you at around 4:52

4:52? What about 12/21/12??