- 319
- Colorado
Something to look forward to after school. Thanks!
Chaparral 2X Vision Gran Turismo REVEALED!
- Thread starter ZedMan1996
- 996 comments
- 80,482 views
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Something to look forward to after school. Thanks!
You're welcome.
Just be careful with the handling, it is tricky to get it right. Especially if you have a pad. 
- 11,252
- Sweden
- eran0004
For me the key to gold was the S corner in the middle where there's no camber. At first I went through there way too fast and just understeered far away from the apexes, but when I took it slow I improved my lap times a lot.
- 8,721
I
By contrast, I lose nearly two seconds in the second corner (160 mph vs 200), 2 seconds in the last corner and less than a second in the first, where steering lock isn't as much of an issue, only precision (so I slow down to compensate).
I think the four wheel steering is responsible somehow, because the extra yaw contributes yet more yaw from the thrust being directed off tangent, pushing the car towards the inside of the corner. Ignoring sensible limits of steering angle for "normal" cornering must contribute more lateral force from the thrust than is lost from the tyres sliding more. The pad controls don't allow such excessive steering angles, capping maximum lock to what the tyres can handle at any given speed.
I lose a second through there relative to the fastest times, average speed around 110 mph vs 125. I think I'm going slow enough.
By contrast, I lose nearly two seconds in the second corner (160 mph vs 200), 2 seconds in the last corner and less than a second in the first, where steering lock isn't as much of an issue, only precision (so I slow down to compensate).
I think the four wheel steering is responsible somehow, because the extra yaw contributes yet more yaw from the thrust being directed off tangent, pushing the car towards the inside of the corner. Ignoring sensible limits of steering angle for "normal" cornering must contribute more lateral force from the thrust than is lost from the tyres sliding more. The pad controls don't allow such excessive steering angles, capping maximum lock to what the tyres can handle at any given speed.
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- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Wow, that may be the first time I've seen such a difference in one car between the pad and the wheel. The 2X really relies on having radical steering inputs in order to corner properly. Great insight, Griff.
- 1,942
- United States
- RaceManiacGT1
I am curious if the car does the in-phase/out-of-phase 4WS...
- 17,160
- United Kingdom
I
I lose a second through there relative to the fastest times, average speed around 110 mph vs 125. I think I'm going slow enough.
By contrast, I lose nearly two seconds in the second corner (160 mph vs 200), 2 seconds in the last corner and less than a second in the first, where steering lock isn't as much of an issue, only precision (so I slow down to compensate).
I think the four wheel steering is responsible somehow, because the extra yaw contributes yet more yaw from the thrust being directed off tangent, pushing the car towards the inside of the corner. Ignoring sensible limits of steering angle for "normal" cornering must contribute more yaw from the thrust than is lost from the tyres sliding more. The pad controls don't allow such excessive steering angles, capping maximum lock to what the tyres can handle at any given speed.
Personally I think it seems to plough horribly with a wheel too. If you ask too much of it too quickly, it just keeps going the way the lasers pointing! And if you try and ask anything of it slowly, you're already 200m further down the road
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Personally I think it seems to plough horribly with a wheel too. If you ask too much of it too quickly, it just keeps going the way the lasers pointing! And if you try and ask anything of it slowly, you're already 200m further down the road
Well, the way you drive it does make a difference too. Brake mid-corner and you'll see the walls in no time.
You need to brake by antecipation, and not during the corner. Brake, measure the acceleration and then gun it. Gunning it after mid-corner braking will only result in disaster. If anything else fails, turn on the ASM.
- 378
- Trinidad and Tobago
- killah_smoke23
- 1,505
- Sherbrooke, Québec,
- 1,928
- San Bernardino, California
- Gerarghini
- Gerarghini
A test at Route X showed that it only needed ~200 meters to come to a complete stop from 260 mph 
- 8,721
Bear in mind I'm rarely anywhere near the fastest. There's probably a second or two to be had on my time easily just by improving precision, as some pad users can. Then a further second or two with changes to lines etc.
That likely leaves a three second margin between control methods, though, roughly.
That's probably the aero balance; defaults in GT6 are mostly conservatively rearward, except the Red Bull cars and a few others. At very high speed, thrust decreases dramatically it seems, so the extra lateral force from yawing the car is lost. Slowing down just a little bit seems to restore it.Personally I think it seems to plough horribly with a wheel too. If you ask too much of it too quickly, it just keeps going the way the lasers pointing! And if you try and ask anything of it slowly, you're already 200m further down the road
Steering inputs do seem to be starting early in the fast laps, so smooth and anticipatory it is.
A bit of both, I think, adaptively controlled. In theory, you can move the yaw centre by turning each wheel independently and variably, and also vary between "nose outside" (thrust pushes car outwards) or "nose inside" attitudes relative to the direction of travel and the arc centre, and therefore the effective radii of the arcs each wheel is taking can be controlled.
The wheel speed readouts might show this in the Motec export, but there's not enough precision in the in-game datalogger.
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- 1,942
- United States
- RaceManiacGT1
I think most production car's 4WS now does it. Since at low and high speed/cornering load your slip angle requirement for neutral steer will be different. Most actuator based system(like Porsche, Acura, Nissan...etc) is easy enough to do. More amazing I think in the pas was the Honda Prelude's system with a mechanical rack in the back that actually is driven off the front steering system but can change the direction per steering input....
- 11,252
- Sweden
- eran0004
Just to confirm what others have mentioned already: You do get more traction when you stay on the throttle. I have a theory about it, and it's that the laser isn't just pointing forward, it's also pointing slightly down, so the force created by the explosions doesn't just push the car forward but also downwards.
That would explain why you lose so much traction in the front when you brake.
That would explain why you lose so much traction in the front when you brake.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,264
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
That is correct. I found that you have to think more like a fighter pilot when driving this car than a racecar driver. In a normal car you right foot controls the throttle, and hence the amount of wheelspin which you can use to rotate the car. In the 2X your right foot controls THRUST, which direction is manipulated by the cone thingy to either move you forwards or give downforce. So if you lift, you lose all forward momentum AND downforce.
It really is a point-and-shoot car (laser pun not intended). Brake hard in a straight line, tap the throttle mid corner (to maintain downforce) until you see the exit THEN jam it and pray it got enough grip to get you around. You have to "triangulate" your racing line to make it work. It sounds crazy, but the Red Bulls are a lot easier to drive for me. Then again the 2X has less body downforce than some LMPs (only ~400 points front and rear).
Dat pop-pop-pop laser sound though
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- 1,505
- Sherbrooke, Québec,
- 8,721
Good catch.
Even if it were horizontal, if the thrust is applied above the centre of gravity, the car will want to rotate nose down. Tyre contact patches work best when positioned under the centre of gravity on typical driving surfaces (
), hence the nose high on acceleration. An underslung mass driven on raised rails would nose down instead.Any yaw angle relative to the direction of travel also contributes lateral force from thrust. Watching a replay there is a marginal amount of tail out action, but wheel users clearly have their rear tyres outboard of the fronts.
Admittedly, part of that may be due to more grip on the front axle when accelerating resulting in a smaller slip angle. The effect is still that the thrust is sending a portion of its work laterally.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Nevertheless, the feedback I've seen that some people (including you) posted is quite good. That's the magic of the 2X; it really is a whole new experience in driving. Make-believe or not, this car can change your driving senses in a way you never thought it'd be possible. Much like the other Chaparrals, in fact. @LeGeNd-1's words are quite fitting, it really is more of a fighter jet than a racing car.
Any head to head against the X2014 yet?
Not that I've seen one, but if that happens, the only fair rival would be the X2014 Standard. The Fan Car kills the 2X top speed wise and the Junior is far too underpowered to fight the 2X on even terms.
- 35,279
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
There's also the fact while both have continuous Downforce generation, the X2014 Fan Car is literally sucked to the ground whereas the 2x is only pushed to the ground.
- 319
- Colorado
Just got home, dusted off my G27, and I'm updating GT6. Can't wait to drive the 2X!
- 15,460
- Orange County, NY
- GTP_GT916
- Nii916
Has crazy good braking, but it handles like a Bugatti Veyron driven by a morbidly obese guy after a Thanksgiving dinner.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Yes, there's that to consider too. The X2014's downforce method is different from the 2X's, and the 2X's grips a tiny bit less than the X2014.
Just got home, dusted off my G27, and I'm updating GT6. Can't wait to drive the 2X!
Good luck, and don't be angry if you can't get it right the first time. The car can be difficult to drive if you aren't used to how it handles.
- 16,270
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Some gameplay...
- 2,802
- Michigan
- QuintenXavier
- Xbox_Is_Gay
During my tests yesterday I have come to the conclusion that the 2X is an amazing vehicle, the only problem I have with it is the turning, other than that i'd have to say that the 2X is probably my new Favorite Version Gran Turismo over the BMW that was released earlier this year.
- 319
- Colorado
Just finished the seasonal event with the 2X. Got silver on my first try! (Every seasonal I've tried before didn't go so well. I always got bronze.) The car's handling is great, acceleration is amazing, and the top speed is nice. At high speeds, it's fun to drive. Considering the fact that I was using a wheel made it more of a pleasure to drive. Only complaint I have is how it handles corners. At high speed, it does fairly well. But at lower speeds, it's strange to me. The car doesn't handle as smoothly or as sharp as it does at higher speeds. But it's a nice car. I like it. Got about 220,000 Cr. and a black 2X. So I'd say I'm satisfied with the car. Obviously not the best, but it'll do. 👍
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
Hey, nice job getting Silver, I only managed to get a Bronze lap when I tried it. But yes, the 2X seems to work better when you have a wheel; pad users have a harder time getting the car to turn right, and the understeering problems only get stronger because of it. This is a car you need to drive fast to get grip, but not too fast to the point where you overshoot every single corner. It's indeed a tricky car to get the hang of, but the challenge and the prize you get when you do get it right are so satisfying. You chose the black colour for your 2X? I actually got mine in white. Although I ended up buying another one in black...
- 319
- Colorado
Thank you!
It is tricky. I tried the car on other tracks and it's weird to drive. But I got the hang of it eventually. It might be a car I use often. Once you understand how to drive the car better, it's amazing. And if you have the 200% login bonus, it's a nice sum of money. Plus a nice car.
Hehe. What made you buy another one? The white one is nice, it represents the decals the older 2J car had.
- 35,279
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Its very tricky, you have to find balance between having enough speed that isn't going to plow you straight into the wall nor will be too slow for the car to not grip. While Having a wheel does help, it still requires some finesse to get a good lap. Took a while before I finally got gold.
- 8,721
There's a weird disconnect because some of the steering effort initially goes into yawing the car, not turning it. The visual feedback you get says the nose has turned in enough, but you're still running wide.
The small delay between setting up the yaw and effecting the turn seems worse on the pad. Drive in chase view to see what I mean.
Managed to improve my time by 5.5 seconds just by switching to a wheel. Crazy. Still over 2 seconds off the fastest, of course.
My brain can't get used to the backwards yawing when you drop two wheels on the grass; I instinctively "pre-correct" towards the track, but the drag bias (less grip on grass seems to mean less drag, too, in GT6) naturally pushes the car back on, so I effectively overcorrect before anything's actually gone wrong.
Totally different experience, makes you question the nature of existing motorsport, and makes you wonder what other possibilities there are. This car laughs in the face of out-in-out.
Bravo "Chapparal" and bravo PD.
The small delay between setting up the yaw and effecting the turn seems worse on the pad. Drive in chase view to see what I mean.
Managed to improve my time by 5.5 seconds just by switching to a wheel. Crazy. Still over 2 seconds off the fastest, of course.
My brain can't get used to the backwards yawing when you drop two wheels on the grass; I instinctively "pre-correct" towards the track, but the drag bias (less grip on grass seems to mean less drag, too, in GT6) naturally pushes the car back on, so I effectively overcorrect before anything's actually gone wrong.
Totally different experience, makes you question the nature of existing motorsport, and makes you wonder what other possibilities there are. This car laughs in the face of out-in-out.
Bravo "Chapparal" and bravo PD.
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