Cheating in sport

[Alan_G]

A discussion has come up in the GT5 Time Trial forum. In the Spanish GT Academy final, there was some bad, unsporting driving going on. Because of the poorly organised event, they could get away with it. A member of GTP has expressed the opinion that cheating must be carried out by true racers to win at all costs.

Ireland were recently eliminated from the football World Cup qualification after Tierry Henry handled the ball twice, a goal was scored, and they got away with it. Some of Ireland's other sporting figures made comments such as "At the highest level, you must do what is necessary to win" (Brian O'Driscoll made this kind of comment).

Should sportsmen and women deliberately break the rules and be dishonest in order to gain an unfair advantage? Do you agree with "win at all costs"?

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

"Win at all cost" is really bad sportsmanship IMO 👎 I dont understand people with that mentality. What is fun about winning if you didnt earn it

 

[Northstar]

I voted yes.

Although I don't think people should go to extremes like doping, pushing the rules adds excitement to whatever sport/game it may be.

 

[homeforsummer]

I voted no. I think that sport should be fair, otherwise it defeats the purpose of competition. With an unfair advantage, sport is no longer competitive.

However, that isn't to say that people shouldn't be allowed to push the boundaries to see what they can get away with in a fair manner. Deliberate cheating should be dealt with harshly, but say in a sport like F1, if an engineer comes out with a piece of technology that's better than what anyone else has and is not expressly forbidden in the rules, I think that's fair enough. Harsh passes? People have got away with some pretty big bumps and not been penalised and perhaps a lot of the time that's just the nature of the sport. You do have to try whatever you can to win, but there are rules in place to stop you taking the mickey.

A good non-F1 example I can think of along the "pushing the boundaries" line is in Rugby, when teams in a lineout started lifting and supporting others who were jumping to catch the ball to let them go higher. Nobody had thought of it because it wasn't expressly mentioned in the rules, but when some teams did start doing so, rather than making the move illegal due to unfair advantage it was just quickly adopted by everyone instead and now it's a part of the sport.

 

[Omnis]

It's dumb, especially for international sports where the competitors are representatives of national sub-groups like the Olympics. USATF is super strict with drug policy and other federations are comparatively lax. You get guys who juice up like crazy while training and then stop in time for Olympic testing. Things like that piss me off. It's why the US doesn't have a strong representation in the throwing events (aside from the shot put).

 

[DK]

That incident must really sting if you're still thinking about it. Because of the Paris Screwjob (as I have called it) my baby brother hates the French. It's ironic that Henry was part of an anti-racism campaign and his cheating sparked a new wave of racism in my country. Makes you sick, doesn't it?

 

[Alan_G]

That incident must really sting if you're still thinking about it.

Personally, I am well past that disappointment. It just happens to be a recent example relating to this topic. And since I'm from Ireland, it's an obvious example to use.

 

[FoolKiller]

If you are breaking an explicitly defined rule then are not playing the sport within the confines of the regulations that create what that sport is. If you want to play outside those definitions then maybe you should start your own sport, but I suggest you ask Vince McMahon how the XFL went before you do.


That said, if you are getting creative in a way that no one has thought of before you will either aid in creating a new rule, or change the game forever (forward pass) .

 

[Duke]

If you are breaking an explicitly defined rule then are not playing the sport within the confines of the regulations that create what that sport is. If you want to play outside those definitions then maybe you should start your own sport, but I suggest you ask Vince McMahon how the XFL went before you do.


That said, if you are getting creative in a way that no one has thought of before you will either aid in creating a new rule, or change the game forever (forward pass) .

^^^^^^ This.

 

[BobK]

What is fun about winning if you didnt earn it

Cashing the check, of course.

 

[Sam48]

I voted yes.

Although I don't think people should go to extremes like doping, pushing the rules adds excitement to whatever sport/game it may be.

There's a difference between pushing the rules, and breaking them. However, cheating can fall under both of those categories.

 

[Irons]

Victory is much sweeter when you know it was a legit win.

Cashing the check, of course.

Embezzle much?

 

[Vince_Fiero]

You need to put in your best effort to win! That is sports.

I remember the incident with Schumi and Benneton, removing some protection on the petrol filling system

, so they could bring down their pitstop time and weight.

So:
1) Yes if you risk to take penalties or punishment personally, without hiding what you are doing (like going wide on rumble strips).
2) No if you damage the infrastructure, risk to injure others, etc...

 

[niky]

There's a difference between pushing the rules, and breaking them. However, cheating can fall under both of those categories.

It's not cheating if the rules (and the law in general... no murdering, people... ) don't prohibit it:

That said, if you are getting creative in a way that no one has thought of before you will either aid in creating a new rule, or change the game forever (forward pass) .

So many possible examples of creative tinkering with the rules... In basketball: the double-dribble (banned), slam-dunks (thankfully not banned), blocks (regulated, not banned), dribbling for hours without attempting to score (which, thankfully, led to the introduction of the shot clock)...

In swimming: hydrodynamic suits... though these are controversial...

In F1: mass-dampers, double-diffusers, "flexible" aero (Ferrari)... McLaren's engine trim paddles (shockingly good idea...) stuff which rule-makers didn't think of and which teams exploited. All part of the game. All stuff which helps further the sport (as long as the rulemakers are flexible enough to write them in... I think Renault's mass damper idea should have been allowed to prosper...)

-

What I find distasteful is conduct which is done not just in order to win, but specifically to make another person lose or handicap another competitor (Schumi with Hill... and again in qualifying a few years ago... Hamilton at "Lie-Gate"... the infamous Renault crash). Sportsmanship demands that you respect your competitors enough to come out and fight clean.

Of course, if you have the brains to think of something he hasn't thought of... that's part of the fight.

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

Cashing the check, of course.

Yeah I understand that the money make people cheat and do drugs etc. But I cant understand how they can live with the fact that they didnt really earn the 1. place. IMO people doing drugs like EPO and steroids should be banned for life!

 

[Only_in_f1]

I voted no. I think that sport should be fair, otherwise it defeats the purpose of competition. With an unfair advantage, sport is no longer competitive.

But is it an unfair advantage? a team with 4 against 17 players is an unfair advantage. But someone hand balling the ball into the net is opportunistic? Anyone can do it, but depends if they get away with it.

Reading Lance Armstorngs, book his body naturally produced less latic acid than the average one. This was a huge advantage, and if he was racing me or you its an unfair advantage.

No sport is completely fair. Look in any sport its not fair.

Anyone who enters a sport has a certain desire to win. Some will push these limits to the extreme. For me its what makes sport, sport.

 

[Alan_G]

Reading Lance Armstorngs, book his body naturally produced less latic acid than the average one. This was a huge advantage, and if he was racing me or you its an unfair advantage.

I think this would be a "fair advantage"!

It comes down to definition or interpretation I suppose. I would consider an unfair advantage to be an advantage which is gained by braking the rules or foul-play. Someone being physiologically superior to another may be an advantage and would have to be considered fair!

 

[Danoff]

I don't see why people seem to consider breaking the rules in sports different than breaking the rules in any other activity. Is a pizza delivery guy not doing his job unless he's speeding?

 

[FoolKiller]

I don't see why people seem to consider breaking the rules in sports different than breaking the rules in any other activity. Is a pizza delivery guy not doing his job unless he's speeding?

Depends if he is held to a strict time frame. Around here there is no guaranteed delivery time, so by speeding he risks increasing delivery time by getting pulled over.

 

[Boffin]

I voted yes.

Although I don't think people should go to extremes like doping, pushing the rules adds excitement to whatever sport/game it may be.

Pushing rules and breaking rules are two different things. Think about the 2009 double diffuser debacle, or the America cup ages ago when the Aussies brought that new keel, that was technicaly withing the rules. Breaking rules would be going through the rules in the sport and not taking notice of them. Its running in the WRC with an engine over 2000cc, its doing the luge, skeleton, bobsled with white hot skates, its looking at other people's cards in poker. If people see the need to cheat, they obviously aren't good enought to win, so they are not worthy. I don't think Federer ever cheated, nor Tiger Woods (haw haw ), and they are at the top of their respective sports.

In motorsport, how does excitement come from one car being supreme over the other cars? That makes it boring because there is no jostling for position - only a clear winner, which is not exciting IMO. Same for tennis. I went to see Tsonga vs Almegro at the Australian open, and while I wanted Tsonga to win, I wanted it to be close and explosive - which it was.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

I remember the last years: Female athletes failing the ‘chromosome’ sex test

They always were female, but it seems somewhere in deep tests they have a difference.

Is this a natural advantage or were they cheating unconsciously?