Class XII Association - Week 1

[Cedar]

CLASS XII ASSOCIATION - WEEK 1​

This week's challenge will be extended to midnight Saturday GMT, Dec. 10 due to the fact that I only received 2 of 4 submissions. Smallhorses and tricd04 have the opportunity to revise their times if they so wish.


This week we're going to race in the Clubman Cup's second race at Twin Motegi East Short Course. There are 3 laps and instead of using your best lap time, your cumulative 3 lap time will be used. So you have to stick with it all 3 laps.


Track

• Clubman Cup- Twin Motegi East Short Course.

Car

• Mitsubishi 3000GT MR (J)* '98
• *AKA Mitsubishi GTO '98

Settings

1. Go to GT Mode "Home"
2. Select the 3000GT
3. Go to Mitsubishi's tuning shop in Japan.
4. Purchase and equip the car with a triple-plate clutch.
5. Exit the tuning shop and go to the Clubman Cup in the Professional Events.
6. Select the 2nd event (Twin Motegi East Short Course).
7. Go into settings (the red toolbox), turn all driving aids off, and check to make sure that the standard tires are equipped (sports medium S2's) and that the clutch is equipped.

Race Rules

• You may race as many times as you like.
• You will get 1 bonus point added to your championship point total if you place 1st.
• Use your entire 3-lap time.
• PM me your best time by midnight on Saturday, December 10th, 2011 GMT.

Don't forget to do an oil change before the race. You absolutely MUST because the cars from the used car lot have never had an oil change so their HP is considerably lower. You don't need to do one after the race since we won't be using the same car for the duration of the season.

Find OLR guidelines and other rules and such at the original post, here:
Class XII Association- Sign-up and Info

If you wish to sign-up for this, I'll still accept late applicants. Please visit the page above to sign-up.

Thanks,
Cedar

RESULTS!

I accidentally deleted both tricd04's and Smallhorses PM with their times after I opened them. I asked them to re-PM me them, and tricd did, but Smallhorses didn't. Luckily, I remembered the first 3 digits, which is all we needed 👍
My apologies to Smallhorses!​

 

[Eric Demory]

Count me in. Driving the 3000GT sounds like a fun challenge as a series premier.

 

[Cedar]

Count me in. Driving the 3000GT sounds like a fun challenge as a series premier.

Alright, please refer the other page for other rules and such. How many of the Class XII cars do you have?

 

[Bopop4]

I'm currently redoing thebasement but I'll try to create a makeshift rig to do the challenge. Also I'm glad to see that the Silvia is a couple weeks away, still have to get it.

 

[Cedar]

I'm currently redoing thebasement but I'll try to create a makeshift rig to do the challenge. Also I'm glad to see that the Silvia is a couple weeks away, still have to get it.

Great! Nobody else that signed up has contacted me about even doing this yet...

 

[Bopop4]

Can we change oil before the race?
5'02.632

 

[Cedar]

Can we change oil before the race?
5'02.632

Yes. Please read the rules. You're supposed to PM me your results, not post them here.

 

[Smallhorses]

A couple of things here:

You haven't specified a timezone for the submissions. Midnight Saturday is already well on it's way to approaching in Australia, and yet I've not yet hit Midnight Friday where I'm at. Midnight Saturday for you will come 3hrs before it does for me, so without a timezone specified I'd technically have 3 more hours to submit than you do.
You should make everything relative to a specific timezone, GMT or Eastern Time US (where you are) that way everyone is clear when exactly their submissions are due in relation to you.

Secondly, you should ensure that your deadline is set such that you can get the results up relatively soon after the deadline passes, and you should not open any PMs titled as Time submissions until after the deadline. PMs get a sent timestamp and you can always tell when a message has been read. If you read submitted times before a deadline it gives you an unfair advantage in knowing what you have to beat.

I'm submitting my time now, so look for the PM from me, but don't open it until after the deadline.

 

[Cedar]

A couple of things here:

You haven't specified a timezone for the submissions. Midnight Saturday is already well on it's way to approaching in Australia, and yet I've not yet hit Midnight Friday where I'm at. Midnight Saturday for you will come 3hrs before it does for me, so without a timezone specified I'd technically have 3 more hours to submit than you do.
You should make everything relative to a specific timezone, GMT or Eastern Time US (where you are) that way everyone is clear when exactly their submissions are due in relation to you.

Secondly, you should ensure that your deadline is set such that you can get the results up relatively soon after the deadline passes, and you should not open any PMs titled as Time submissions until after the deadline. PMs get a sent timestamp and you can always tell when a message has been read. If you read submitted times before a deadline it gives you an unfair advantage in knowing what you have to beat.

I'm submitting my time now, so look for the PM from me, but don't open it until after the deadline.

Unfortunately, I did not read this post until after I opened the PM's... but I do honestly do not remember the times and shall not read them again. Thanks for the advice. 👍

I'll add "GMT" to my rules page. Thanks for that, too. 👍

 

[Smallhorses]

Hmmmm...
6 hours beyond deadline, and PM'd submission read before deadline yet no results? 👎
Guess I'll reserve my racing time for other series from now on.

 

[Cedar]

Hmmmm...
6 hours beyond deadline, and PM'd submission read before deadline yet no results? 👎
Guess I'll reserve my racing time for other series from now on.

I said that I'll post up the results on the following Sunday. But there's really no point. Only you and tricd04 submitted times.

 

[Cedar]

Results are up for Rd. 1. 👍

 

[Smallhorses]

I'm going to need to see a replay of your time there.
A YouTube video will suffice, showing your time on the replay screen, followed by the video loading and the initial tyre and power figures.
To post results, 1 week after deadline, after knowing the other participants results for all that time, my original PM of my results was read before the original deadline, and then being so much faster is just a touch suspicious. 👎

Count me out of further participation.

 

[Korza]

^ Don't you think that you're being a tad paranoid?

 

[Smallhorses]

^ Don't you think that you're being a tad paranoid?

Coming from you, a proven cheat and banned from any online competition here at that's a tad ironic.

Come on, 2s per lap faster than his nearest competitor around a short circuit over 3 laps and with 5 cars to pass?
Given that historically he's been behind me in most contests, and only placed higher than me in the Lotus Elan series in the one week that he submitted an ineligible time, and was allowed to resubmit after knowing everyone else's results, this just seems a tad fishy.
In this case, he knew results in advance of deadline 'cause he opened the PMs and then claims to have forgotten them. I think it's a reasonable challenge, and unlike yourself hopefully he can provide the proof that's required, unlike most folks that get challenged here, usually responding with "Oh, I accidentally deleted / didn't save / goldfish ate my* replay" or "My videocamera / smartphone / capture card* happens to be broken this week"
* delete as applicable

My time, for the record, was 4:59.412.

 

[Korza]

Coming from you, a proven cheat and banned from any online competition here at that's a tad ironic.

Come on, 2s per lap faster than his nearest competitor around a short circuit over 3 laps and with 5 cars to pass?
Given that historically he's been behind me in most contests, and only placed higher than me in the Lotus Elan series in the one week that he submitted an ineligible time, and was allowed to resubmit after knowing everyone else's results, this just seems a tad fishy.
In this case, he knew results in advance of deadline 'cause he opened the PMs and then claims to have forgotten them. I think it's a reasonable challenge, and unlike yourself hopefully he can provide the proof that's required, unlike most folks that get challenged here, usually responding with "Oh, I accidentally deleted / didn't save / goldfish ate my* replay" or "My videocamera / smartphone / capture card* happens to be broken this week"
* delete as applicable

My time, for the record, was 4:59.412.

2 seconds a lap faster than someone on a particular track isn't impossible. Maybe Cedar is a Motegi specialist. Maybe you suck at Motegi... And if you had read the update in the OP, you would see that he accidentally deleted some PM's and requested for them to be resent, which you didn't do.
And for the record, I didn't have a way of providing any proof, seeing as I don't own a capture card or a video camera....

 

[Smallhorses]

I didn't resubmit my time as he'd mentioned he wasn't going to post results here anyway due to lack of interest, and the fact that I was on vacation most of last week and unable to send PMs.
As far as Motegi goes, I'm really very familiar with this track, we ran the 50 lap Clio Endurance race at one of the SFGTP events.

I can drag your file in here if you'd like, but the staff all know as you'd submitted a photo, one of those which nailed your coffin here in terms of cheating in your Skyline by racing with an over-modified car, from a camera which had video capability. The site owner himself threw that little nugget into the arena within your member offence thread. Keep digging if you wish...

 

[Korza]

I ain't digging anything here, but not all phone cameras support video, such as mine, but I'm not here to argue over my case. But maybe you should've made the time to resubmit your PM instead of accusing Cedar of cheating... but I do agree that 6 seconds faster does seem to be a bit off for a 2 lap race at Motegi East.

 

[Smallhorses]

...instead of accusing Cedar of cheating...

Care to quote my post where I've accused him of cheating?
Oh, that's right, you can't!
I requested a video because his time is suspicious, coming so long after his original deadline of Dec 4th and given that he claimed in this thread that he'd forgotten my time anyway, only for me to wake up this morning to find my "time" in his results.

...but I do honestly do not remember the times and shall not read them again..

It's a request for proof, not a direct accusation of cheating.

You should also bear in mind that this challenge comes to someone, who has already been challenged, correctly as it turned out, over a suspicious time which he later rescinded.

 

[Korza]

RESULTS!

I accidentally deleted both tricd04's and Smallhorses PM with their times after I opened them. I asked them to re-PM me them, and tricd did, but Smallhorses didn't. Luckily, I remembered the first 3 digits, which is all we needed 👍
My apologies to Smallhorses!​

Where does it say that he forgot your time?

I'm going to need to see a replay of your time there.
A YouTube video will suffice, showing your time on the replay screen, followed by the video loading and the initial tyre and power figures.
To post results, 1 week after deadline, after knowing the other participants results for all that time, my original PM of my results was read before the original deadline, and then being so much faster is just a touch suspicious. 👎

Count me out of further participation.

You accused him of cheating without having to actually use those words by what you said above.

 

[GrumpEone]

korza493, what exactly is your interest here? You are not hosting or competing here.

You are obviously trying to start more issues!

Asking for proofs of a suspicious time is not an accusation of cheating, it is a requirement of posting an extremely fast time.

From the outside looking in, the time seems suspicious; and the host posting the suspicious time is even worse, considering the host is the one who is supposed to keep everything fair, and if he cannot produce proof, it would be even worse.

 

[Smallhorses]

Where does it say that he forgot your time?

Post #9 of this thread, the one I quoted for you, but you appear to have overlooked.

I've asked for proof, not accused of cheating. He's running this series to OLR rules for which what I've requested is a requirement, I want to be sure, that like me he's sticking to them. 👍
I'll happily supply my 100% clean OLR standard replay too if he supplies his.

 

[Cedar]

Jesus, just got on from being away all day and there's a full-fledged battle raging here.

I did save my replay this time, but there isn't a way to get the replay off the card is there? The best I can do is take a picture of my time and make sure my settings were correct. I didn't think much of me beating Smallhorses time by over 5 secs, but that was mostly because I thought he wasn't trying. He's an excellent racer, but I just think our past arguments made him not as willing to try or something.

I'll post up the pic soon...

 

[Smallhorses]

A picture won't show too much. You could take several pictures, firstly the replay theater screen, showing your replay save name. Then the screen as the car name, power and tyres are displayed, then a picture of the cars on the grid, etc.

In this day and age, you or someone you know, e.g. your parents, probably has a digital camera or smartphone, capable of capturing about 5 minutes of video though. This would show everything, whether you left the track at any point, crashed into the AI or took shortcuts. This is what I'd be aiming for.
You should start filming on the replay theater screen with the replay info & name shown, then we can see as the replay loads and the initial car stats and then the whole race viewed from outside the car, like this, for example:

​

There are ways of getting a replay from a mem-card, but unless you've got a GameShark/Sharkport or MAXDrive, then we're out of luck.

I never race without 100% commitment, so I'm surprised you were able to be 2 quicker per lap, especially given I passed all 5 cars in lap 1 without being held up at all significantly and then ran 2 clean laps, and your relative times in most other events we've raced in.

I did, however, take exception to korza493's initial comments as he is probably the last person that should be commenting in an online race series thread anyway, given that he's banned from any event on this site after misbehaving in several GT4 challenges and providing ill-guided "proof" & excuses which only cemented his conviction as it only succeeded in being added to the evidence pile supporting his misdemeanours rather than for his own defence.
He's been asked several times to do the gentlemanly thing and apologise to everyone concerned who suffered because of his actions, but it was never forthcoming, and I won't hold my breath expecting it either.

I've provided a replay for your benefit (the one above, in fact) when you requested it. Now it's your turn to return the favour.

 

[Korza]

A picture won't show too much. You could take several pictures, firstly the replay theater screen, showing your replay save name. Then the screen as the car name, power and tyres are displayed, then a picture of the cars on the grid, etc.

In this day and age, you or someone you know, e.g. your parents, probably has a digital camera or smartphone, capable of capturing about 5 minutes of video though. This would show everything, whether you left the track at any point, crashed into the AI or took shortcuts. This is what I'd be aiming for.
There are ways of getting a replay from a mem-card, but unless you've got a GameShark/Sharkport or MAXDrive, then we're out of luck.

I never race without 100% commitment, so I'm surprised you were able to be 2 quicker per lap, especially given I passed all 5 cars in lap 1 without being held up at all significantly and then ran 2 clean laps, and your relative times in most other events we've raced in.

I did, however, take exception to korza493's initial comments as he is probably the last person that should be commenting in an online race series thread anyway, given that he's banned from any event on this site after misbehaving in several GT4 challenges and providing ill-guided "proof" & excuses which only cemented his conviction as it only succeeded in being added to the evidence pile supporting his misdemeanours rather than for his own defence.
He's been asked several times to do the gentlemanly thing and apologise to everyone concerned who suffered because of his actions, but it was never forthcoming, and I won't hold my breath expecting it either.

Thats funny, cause I remember you jumping to conclusions....

 

[Cedar]

A picture won't show too much. You could take several pictures, firstly the replay theater screen, showing your replay save name. Then the screen as the car name, power and tyres are displayed, then a picture of the cars on the grid, etc.

In this day and age, you or someone you know, e.g. your parents, probably has a digital camera or smartphone, capable of capturing about 5 minutes of video though. This would show everything, whether you left the track at any point, crashed into the AI or took shortcuts. This is what I'd be aiming for.
There are ways of getting a replay from a mem-card, but unless you've got a GameShark/Sharkport or MAXDrive, then we're out of luck.

I never race without 100% commitment, so I'm surprised you were able to be 2 quicker per lap, especially given I passed all 5 cars in lap 1 without being held up at all significantly and then ran 2 clean laps, and your relative times in most other events we've raced in.

I did, however, take exception to korza493's initial comments as he is probably the last person that should be commenting in an online race series thread anyway, given that he's banned from any event on this site after misbehaving in several GT4 challenges and providing ill-guided "proof" & excuses which only cemented his conviction as it only succeeded in being added to the evidence pile supporting his misdemeanours rather than for his own defence.
He's been asked several times to do the gentlemanly thing and apologise to everyone concerned who suffered because of his actions, but it was never forthcoming, and I won't hold my breath expecting it either.

My dad's iPhone is all we have. I cannot send a video to myself more than about 1 min. in length, but I can take those pictures you requested.

I checked my settings and found an error: I had previously tuned the car to drifting before Class XII, and had to revert all of the settings, tires etc. back to default. But, upon doing so, I just defaulted the transmission, suspension, and LSD. I didn't just bring them back to standard.

I corrected those mistakes and still came out with a time of 4'53.924. I know this seems very fishy, but I'll do my best to provide you with all the proof required.

EDIT: Wow, my dad is over-reacting. I asked for his phone so I could take the pictures and we got into an argument because he said it was an online game and that it should just be the honor system. Everyone should trust everyone with their times and it's Smallhorses fault that he doesn't. So he won't give me the camera to post my pictures.

 

[Smallhorses]

Thats funny, cause I remember you jumping to conclusions....

Care to elaborate?

I'll happily share the contents of your member offense folder here if you'd like?

We came up with possibilities to explain your meteoric rise from tail-ender to front-runner and you provided us with screenshots that couldn't have been run using spec provided, taken with a camera that has video capability (as proven by Jordan) and still claim otherwise. Some of our assumptions were correct, some weren't.
You claim to have been pushed up to speed by an F1 car on the Test Course during a Max-Speed test in your Top Gear RX-8, which is clearly nonsense as there's only 1 car on track during that event. Couple this with numerous publicly admitted "errors" in your submissions prior to your assessment by the staff and site-owner and the excuses which you provided in response to PMs and it became clear that not much that you say can be trusted.

Cedar: by your own admission then, you ran a modified car, which against the OLR rules and should DQ yourself.

Your Dad is right to an extent, however, the honour system has been violated time & again by people like korza493 and thus tarnished it's nature, and you made your series and stated OLR rules, which, by their nature require the fastest racers to be able to provide proof. If you can't meet this requirement you shouldn't be asking for others to either, and shouldn't include it in your race requirements.

 

[Korza]

Care to elaborate?

I'll happily share the contents of your member offense folder here if you'd like?

We came up with possibilities to explain your meteoric rise from tail-ender to front-runner and you provided us with screenshots that couldn't have been run using spec provided, taken with a camera that has video capability (as proven by Jordan) and still claim otherwise. Some of our assumptions were correct, some weren't.
You claim to have been pushed up to speed by an F1 car on the Test Course during a Max-Speed test in your Top Gear RX-8, which is clearly nonsense as there's only 1 car on track during that event. Couple this with numerous publicly admitted "errors" in your submissions prior to your assessment by the staff and site-owner and the excuses which you provided in response to PMs and it became clear that not much that you say can be trusted.

I don't understand why you think I want you to discuss it, seeing as this thread has nothing to do with me..... If you want to discuss it that badly, do it via PM or E-mail, because it doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[Smallhorses]

I don't understand why you think I want you to discuss it, seeing as this thread has nothing to do with me..... If you want to discuss it that badly, do it via PM or E-mail, because it doesn't belong in this thread.

Because, in a thread where I've disputed a 2nd suspicious time from an individual, and in both cases, much like yourself, he admitted to running the car with the wrong specs, you had the audacity to suggest I was being paranoid and accusing him of "cheating", while I was, in fact correct, and then you began to tell me how I should conduct myself in someone else's thread that's nothing to do with you anyway and putting words in my mouth.

The mistrust amongst online racers in the GT4 community at the moment is in no small part due to your own actions across not just 1, but 4, and maybe more events, something which is being echoed in an eerily similar manner by Cedar with his times and his excuses. If it's nipped in the bud and he realises that continuously making "mistakes" in his submissions isn't acceptable here, he can avoid the same fate that you brought upon yourself, and since you'd shown up here, you provide a perfect example of how not to behave in an honour driven system.

I also wanted to know what conclusions you thought I'd been jumping to?, something which you've also posted as an open ended comment within this thread and thus I responded to find out what you mean. You just seem like you'd like to have the last word here, but in a situation where a proven cheat like yourself is leaping to the defence of someone else behaving suspiciously, and cannot provide any proof, you're probably not the best defendant he could wish for.

I can accept a few tenths per lap quicker, maybe even a full second due to traffic issues, if we're supposed to be racing 100% OLR clean, i.e. contact free and 2 tyres on track at all times (as I did, and can provide my own proof of ), and I can accept that even with a default set full-custom suspension setup, LSD and full-custom transmission that it would certainly make the 5 - 6s difference.
What I can't accept is his new time which in removing the 3 items above, is only 0.5s slower, and the fact that he cannot provide proof in his own series which he's running to GTPlanet's OLR rules, even if it is "his Dad's fault."
It's the same way with spurious submissions every time, it's never the submitter's fault, of course, it's their friend / sibling / parent / goldfish / hamster / etc.'s instead. 👎

 

[Korza]

As I said before, if you want to discuss it so badly, do it via PM or E-mail. I am not interested in arguing with you over this.