Class XII Association - Week 1

  • Thread starter Cedar
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Jesus, just got on from being away all day and there's a full-fledged battle raging here. :scared:

I did save my replay this time, but there isn't a way to get the replay off the card is there? The best I can do is take a picture of my time and make sure my settings were correct.

Try this. I have one and they work great. http://www.amazon.com/Pinnacle-Systems-Dazzle-Recorder-VERSION/dp/B0039Y2YDK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1323761100&sr=8-3

See my replays on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvg28baxaiE
 

Yeah I have something similar, only I got it at Microcenter, for $22, slightly lower quality, but approx half the price. The cheapest I've found is this one http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002H3BSCM/?tag=gtplanet-20 for $7

Another option would be a cheap DVD Recorder, which can be bought for around $30 used.
 
EDIT: Wow, my dad is over-reacting. I asked for his phone so I could take the pictures and we got into an argument because he said it was an online game and that it should just be the honor system. Everyone should trust everyone with their times and it's Smallhorses fault that he doesn't. So he won't give me the camera to post my pictures.

With all due respect to your dad, he is wrong on this point. GT4 is not an online game. The forum is. I suspect he would feel much different if we were playing poker or a game of golf and dealing from the bottom of the deck or taking a mulligan or gimme. I've been around these forums long enough to see the new racer come in with a time only to be called on it and then come up with one of the multitude of explanations that SmallHorses has mentioned here.

The newbie fails to realize that this is a game that has been out since 2004 and the forum participates have seen the scams before. Your reputation here is paramount. Without it you are nothing. I ran a cheat lap of 2'25.xxx in Viperin's Race series on snow for fun and could have submitted it but to what extent. Just to beat someone that I enjoy racing with/against?

As for not having any way to provide proof, in this day and age. I'm assuming that you are a minor because you have to rely on your dad. That's fine. But every phone I know these days has recording ability. You have friends, have them record it. Every phone usually comes with the cable to connect to the internet(which you have).

Contrary to what Korza493 the CHEAT thinks, SmallHorses has every right to put in his 2 cents. He's on the GTP staff!!! The rules obviously permit it. It was probably listed in the "terms of agreement" that we all signed but never read when we joined.

Someday I might even meet some of these guys in RL and it would never happen if your bad reputation precedes you. As for having Korza493 on your side. I would run not walk to get as far away from a known and unacceptable CHEATER.

My 2 cents. Which I'm entitled to give because I'm a member.
 
Well it doesn't matter anymore because I received no submissions from anybody in week 2.

Actually it does matter, not for this specific series, but for your word and honor here at GTP. It would have been far more honorable for you to admit the mistake in setup and Disqualify yourself immediately. You did admit to the error in your setup only after being challenged, then posted another time past the original deadline, still unable to provide any sort of proof. Why should you as a host, not have to abide by the deadline, rules, and supply proof when challenged? Also, why would anyone want to participate in a competition where the host can not follow the rules?

Until you have the capability of showing proof, and repair your tainted honor, please refrain from trying to host another racing competition, or even compete in one here. People unable to provide any kind of proof for their times, and those who knowingly cheat have killed many competitions here. Just another example of why the honor system does not work for these competitions.

Just because you can cheat, and possibly even get away with it, doesn't mean you should cheat.
 
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Well it doesn't matter anymore because I received no submissions from anybody in week 2.

That's quite possibly because we're all still waiting for you to live up to this promise:

Cedar
...but I'll do my best to provide you with all the proof required.

Look at it from our standpoint: the first series you've participated in upon joining this forum, with no previously established credibility, was Lotus Elan Gentleman's Racing Club - Week 1. You submitted a suspicious time, got challenged, admitted a settings "mistake" and, against normal GTP series rules were allowed (generously) to submit a time after the deadline with everyone else's target times to aim for already. Strike 1, you now come under closer scrutiny than normal, as you would expect.
Week 1 of your own series, which you claim to be running to OLR rules, you submit a suspicious time, got challenged, admitted a settings "mistake" after posting results way after the deadline having read time submission PMs way before the deadline, and still cannot provide even a screenshot of either your initial time, even just in the replay theatre selection screen (which contravenes the OLR rules in itself) or of your "new" time which is quite frankly going to need to be a video to be believed anyway, which was run after the deadline, and is thus (by OLR rules) invalid. Strike 2, you've set yourself up for further examination by all the honest and proven racers who participate in the races here.
To blame someone else i.e. your Dad for us not believing you, is poor, at best. Does he know why we don't believe you, or did you leave that bit out of your story?

What, out of all of this, do you think has incentivised anyone to say "Yeah, great, let's all go race in the next week of Class XII Association!"?

It's a shame, it was a good concept, but your own actions, excuses and the fact that you had someone leap to your defence that has a reputation for doing exactly what you've been doing (which is akin to having Adolf Hitler / Pol Pot / Nicolae Ceaucescu / Moammar Qaddafi / Saddam Hussien* show up as your counsel for a "Good Political & Social Ethics" hearing!!! :rolleyes:) means that you're going to have to work hard to establish you credibility here again before you can be trusted to run an impartial series of your own.

*Delete as applicable :P
 
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OK, you know what Smallhorses? STOP BITCHING. I don't care if you ban me, (REDACTED] I realize that I can't provide proof so stop telling me that.

I'm not blaming my dad at all, I'm just letting you know that he won't let me. You already said you weren't going to participate anymore so why don't you just leave me alone. Class XII is done, poof. So there. Are you happy? Are you happy now, Smallhorses?

Great, goodbye.
 
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:rolleyes:
Typical teenage drama-queen.
Put your toys back in your pram and man-up to real life.

You also should've read the Acceptable Use Policy which requests that you post without the use of profanity.

Bye then. You'll not be missed.
 
Whoa whoa whoa. REAL LIFE? I think you're the one who needs to man-up. This is a damn game, you need to think before you pester someone to death about an online event for a 2005 Playstation 2 game.
 
:rolleyes:
Typical teenage drama-queen.
Put your toys back in your pram and man-up to real life.

You also should've read the Acceptable Use Policy which requests that you post without the use of profanity.

Bye then. You'll not be missed.

In case you haven't noticed, there is no profanity in Cedar's post. And it would help you weren't on your high horse winding the situation up...
 
In case you haven't noticed, there is no profanity in Cedar's post. And it would help you weren't on your high horse winding the situation up...

As has been mentioned numerous times before you're presence isn't helping matters here. Nor is the visitor message conversation between you two.

This is the 2nd time you've conveniently overlooked the blatently obvious in this thread, first time I even quoted Cedar for you, and you failed to notice what he'd said. This time you've clearly not read his post properly again, there's a deliberate profanity filter bypass in there. :sly:

I've offered him good reasons as to why his series hasn't progressed beyond week 1. He's responded with a sweary tantrum, and you're defending that? Really?

I'm here to ensure that if the rules of :gtplanet: aren't upheld that something gets done to rectify that, and indeed if someone runs a series to OLR guidelines, that they're stuck to properly.
 
As has been mentioned numerous times before you're presence isn't helping matters here. Nor is the visitor message conversation between you two.

This is the 2nd time you've conveniently overlooked the blatently obvious in this thread, first time I even quoted Cedar for you, and you failed to notice what he'd said. This time you've clearly not read his post properly again, there's a deliberate profanity filter bypass in there. :sly:

I've offered him good reasons as to why his series hasn't progressed beyond week 1. He's responded with a sweary tantrum, and you're defending that? Really?

I'm defending him because he's my friend and because you have done nothing but wind the situation up. It could've just disappeared but thats not good enough for you.

I used to be here to ensure that if the rules of :gtplanet: aren't upheld that something gets done to rectify that, and indeed if someone runs a series to OLR guidelines, that they're stuck to properly but I am no longer a Moderator so its not my job any more.

Fixed.
 
As has been mentioned numerous times before you're presence isn't helping matters here. Nor is the visitor message conversation between you two.

This is the 2nd time you've conveniently overlooked the blatently obvious in this thread, first time I even quoted Cedar for you, and you failed to notice what he'd said. This time you've clearly not read his post properly again, there's a deliberate profanity filter bypass in there. :sly:

I've offered him good reasons as to why his series hasn't progressed beyond week 1. He's responded with a sweary tantrum, and you're defending that? Really?

I'm here to ensure that if the rules of :gtplanet: aren't upheld that something gets done to rectify that, and indeed if someone runs a series to OLR guidelines, that they're stuck to properly.

Offered me good reasons? You could just say them in a kindly put terse paragraph, but you had to go and verbally attack me for pages. You repeated several things and you take this crap way too seriously. I'm sorry that I am not capable of perfection, Your Highness.
 

You were told about putting words in other people's mouths earlier in this thread. 👎
To suggest that because I'm not longer an active staff member means I should now turn a blind eye to every violation of the site rules is really a very strange viewpoint.
 
You were told about putting words in other people's mouths earlier in this thread. 👎
To suggest that because I'm not longer an active staff member means I should now turn a blind eye to every violation of the site rules is really a very strange viewpoint.

It also means that you should quit bitching when your victim has gotten the point.
 
You were told about putting words in other people's mouths earlier in this thread. 👎
To suggest that because I'm not longer an active staff member means I should now turn a blind eye to every violation of the site rules is really a very strange viewpoint.

I didn't say you should turn a blind eye, but you can't actually ban Cedar... You don't have the power to.
 
It also means that you should quit bitching when your victim has gotten the point.

Victim?? Who is the victim?? Maybe the others who thought your series maybe fun and competed fairly!

Actually Cedar if you had gotten the point, you would have taken responsibility for your actions and disqualified yourself, and apologized for your transgressions. Instead you just ignored the problem, and let it get to this point. Along the way stepping on the AUP, 3 times today, that I have seen anyway.

Smallhorses has every reason and right to try and hold you accountable, and demand some kind of resolution.

btw- this is a publicly viewed forum, but privately owned and operated, you can't just go acting anyway you so desire, you must abide by the rules or AUP. Also you membership here is a privilege and not a right.
 
Victim?? Who is the victim?? Maybe the others who thought your series maybe fun and competed fairly!

Actually Cedar if you had gotten the point, you would have taken responsibility for your actions and disqualified yourself, and apologized for your transgressions. Instead you just ignored the problem, and let it get to this point. Along the way stepping on the AUP, 3 times today, that I have seen anyway.

Smallhorses has every reason and right to try and hold you accountable, and demand some kind of resolution.

Who says I didn't disqualify myself? The series is over now, that's all there is to it.

What transgressions? I couldn't provide proof because my dad wouldn't let me.

There you have it. It doesn't get much simpler than that and if Smallhorses had just accepted that, it wouldn't have escalated so.
 
Of all the people...

I didn't say you should turn a blind eye, but you can't actually ban Cedar... You don't have the power to.

Smallhorses never said he would - Cedar said "goodbye", Tinyponies responded. And yes, there was a post that attempted to bypass the swear filter. It's since been edited, by me.

I started doing OLR in the time-trialling-for-forums sense back in late '99 in GT2. I did it up until a year or two into GT4. One thing I've noticed over the years is that if the questioned person goes on a very angry streak, it's usually not a good sign. I'm not saying that is the case with Cedar, but with a highly suspicious time, some proof would not be terribly hard to provide (back in the early 2000's it was much more of a pain!), it's in his best interest to settle the dispute with humility, not just for this particular race, but for the rest of the community's trust. If it's "just a game", why would one get so defensive?
 
Smallhorses has done this before. Someone needed to tell him off. I am aware of the possible consequences of my actions, but I would much rather take that than sit back and let Smallhorses rant.
 
Yes, I've done it numerous times before. What's the problem?
People submit fake times which are against the rules,

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

I call them out, they get angry, but it doesn't suddenly make them right.

Am I supposed to sit back and let false times and dishonesty prevail because I no longer have the time due to other commitments to perform all of the duties required of a Super-Moderator?
If so, I might as well go and join in the bumper car carnage that is GT5 online.
 
Smallhorses has done this before. Someone needed to tell him off. I am aware of the possible consequences of my actions, but I would much rather take that than sit back and let Smallhorses rant.

You have a problem with someone with literally over half a decade of experience with this game questioning a relative newcomer's incredibly quick time? Or him finding it unsatisfactory this person cannot provide any proof?

The last time Smallhorses "ranted", a member had posted numerous convenient errors or mix-ups, and when asked to provide an explanation, this member gave a run-around and gave the reason of a likely lengthy delay. Strangely, despite being too busy to provide any sort of explanation (the stated delay time was to be around a month and a half), he was still very active on the boards. No apologies, no explanation, just a clear refusal to acknowledge the issue.

This is the person who is standing up for you.

Due to the offline nature of GT4 OLR, integrity is highly valued here. It is a small community compared to the sprawling GT5 OLR, but without integrity and the ability to trust the other people you're competing with, it would become even smaller.
 
Smallhorses has done this before. Someone needed to tell him off. I am aware of the possible consequences of my actions, but I would much rather take that than sit back and let Smallhorses rant.

Everything that I've read that Smallhorses has written has been spot on. I knew I had seen your type of reaction somewhere before.

http://youtu.be/WTbgsoHDc24
 
I'm still not sure why I need to be told off for being right? :confused:

Cedar was wrong in the first place, point proved by his own admission, and since he'd mentioned "a battle", I figured I'd mention why korza493 & I don't see eye-to-eye over issues of falsified times and lack of proof. He's also wrong to accuse me of "bitching" of his belief that now that he's admitted (twice) that he's accidentally submitted false times, that we should all forget it and go back to the honour system!

korza493 was wrong in his assertion that I was paranoid to challenge the time in the first place (see above), wrong in his assertion that Cedar hadn't mentioned forgetting my time (despite me quoting it in the very post he quoted back at me), repeated his lie/ignorance of being incapable of being able to provide video evidence himself (along with all the usual excuses) so I offered to bring in the evidence, wrong in his assertion that I'd jumped to conclusions and was also unwilling to back that up when asked to justify it, ignored the profanity (now edited by mod, but retrievable if necessary) in Cedar's post and accused me of imagining it even though as a former active staff member one really does tend to notice these things, and then suggested that since I'm not active staff any more, it's no longer my job to care, wrong again.
Let's see, yup, that's a drubbing, Smallhorses 5 - 0 korza493.

Oh, and I voluntarily rescinded my Super-Mod status due to other commitments in real-life (yeah, and I fully understand the difference between that, and a game, it still doesn't pay or make it right to be dishonest in either.) It'd take all of about 5 minutes to get reinstated, Jordan has carefully and methodically selected his staff throughout the years based on people that're capable in his view of acting as extensions of himself, who would do as he would do, and say what he'd say in response to a given situation without him having to become a 24hr/day autonomous robot capable of running the site by himself, and as far as I'm concerned, the action against Cedar is more than enough so far if he wishes to continue participating here and rebuilding the small amount of reputation he has left here, which is his choice, or he can continue on the "I've done nothing wrong path" like his buddy, until he finds himself in the same, unfortunate situation of trying to make others look stupid and having the whole thing backfire like a badly tuned Civic, in his face.
To be honest there's not much joy in being a Super-Mod, it's mostly cleanup and diffusion, something which requires time I simply can't volunteer at the moment. That may change in the future, but I can't predict that any more than anyone else can.

Let's also not forget that I've campaigned and provided evidence on behalf of people that I know to be wrongly accused in the past, such as Magic Racer & AndersonG22 to have them reinstated over simple typos, much as viperin was good enough to give Cedar the benefit of the doubt first time out. To be fair my situation with korza493 arose not because of my personal challenges to him, but because I was called in as an independent adjudicator with a history of integrity and proven capability in GT4 via my replays submitted to OLR events, my SFGTP LAN events and the videos I've submitted to the 200pt A-spec forum.

I'm also looking forward to the pages (given that this thread is barely 2 1/2 pages long!!) of verbal abuse that Cedar is able to quote from me.
Let's see...

You ran series.
You submitted fake time.
It was rightly questioned.
You admitted it.
I explained why I'd questioned it, and why I was dismissive of your "defendant", and you offered to do everything you could to provide proof.
You exclaimed surprise when no-one participated in round 2.
I explained bluntly why this may be, given the passage of time (and apparently now, 2 posts within 7 days is "pestering to death") and still no proof.
You post sweary rant directed at a staff member.
Your buddy accuses me of inventing sweary rant.
You accuse me of posting "pages of verbal" abuse.
Your buddy "fixes" my quote to suit his agenda in the misguided belief that because I'm no longer active, it's not my job to uphold what :gtplanet: stands for, be it through AUP or OLR rules, both of which apply in this thread.

Neither of you are remotely believable.
Coupled with the conversation you had by visitor message, you're both dancing on eggshells, balanced on thin ice, on a base of broken biscuits while wearing lead-lined, platinum wellies... with razor spikes.

Turn up the music.
 
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Your wording choices in the last paragraph are rather poor.

"You submitted fake time."
"You exclaimed surprise when no-one participated in round 2."

Example A: Fake? How about error? I reposted a correct time after you rightly asked me to check and there was nothing more I could do. You wouldn't accept that either. What do you want me to do? Post a time that's worse than yours? You wouldn't have asked for proof then, I'm sure.

Example B: Exclaimed? More like responded to someone by saying that no one entered round 2. Is that exclaimed? Was it bolded, capitalized, italicized, anything? Nope. I'm pretty sure it wasn't exclaimed.
 
Neither of you are remotely believable.
Coupled with the conversation you had by visitor message, you're both dancing on eggshells, balanced on thin ice, on a base of broken biscuits while wearing lead-lined, platinum wellies... with razor spikes.

Turn up the music.

I haven't violated the AUP in anyway.... in this thread.
 
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Been busy over the last few days, work, Xmas shopping, collecting another new car, wrapping the presents for my missus, so I've not had chance to respond in here, but it seems it's my turn...

Your wording choices in the last paragraph are rather poor...

Excuse me, after coming in here and finding that:

a) you've twice accused me of "bitching" when I've done nothing of the sort, only point out what facts are at hand and what you could've done to restore your reputation here, (something that since you've continued to moan here isn't likely to happen now anyway.)
b) called the facts I presented to you "🤬", something which earned you an official warning for trying to post profanity and deliberately bypassing the filter and had to be edited by an active staff member,
c) on being asked for proof of a time, twice, having how to obtain and post proof, and having the reasons why not providing it (given your track record of "mistakes") may lead to people being a little suspicious, explained to you in a concise and non-abusive manner over a maximum of 4 posts, you've stated that this is "pestering to death" and "verbally attacking you for pages."
d) called yourself "victim", when the only thing you're technically a victim of is your own father's refusal to allow you shoot even a photo or a video of your times.
e) suggested that everyone else should just be "honourable" even if you can't be.
f) posted that you weren't "going to bother with results" as you'd only had 3 submissions, then posted them anyway.
g) asked "who says I've not been disqualified?", when if the results table in post #1 is anything to go by it still includes your time in an illegally modified vehicle.
h) said "Goodbye", and then failed to leave as you're still here posting. :dunce:

I'd say there were a few very poor choices of words there, so I'd stick to curing your own ills before you start on other people's.

I haven't violated the AUP in anyway....

Hmmmm. I quoted this earlier in the thread:

AUP
You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

It's obvious that it's the part of our AUP that you struggle with most, so I'm not sure whether to just laugh at your quote above, submit it to the Oh, oh, oh, I'm making a Ludicrous Claim! thread or enter it into the comedy quotes nominations for the GTPlanet Awards 2011.

There's either a portion missing, i.e. a timeframe, after "in" and before "anyway", as in "I haven't violated the AUP in the last 5 minutes anyway...." or you should've had a space between the "any" and "way", as in "I haven't violated the AUP in any way...."
However, had you used the latter, it's a direct violation of that part of the AUP quoted again for you above, in that in coming from someone with your infraction point total, it's clearly not true as your total is not zero, and thus logically you've violated the AUP in some way to earn them.
If you happened to mean within the thread, well, having posted "Fixed" after altering my quote to suit your own agenda, but thus making it "false, misleading or inaccurate", shows that you "knowingly" did this, and have thus violated that same AUP bullet point. :rolleyes:
 
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