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[Motor City Hami]

Are the drivers using no driving aids - all aids off? Or is that dictated by our tunes. I think it is part of tuning, so we should dictate any aids. ABS 1 or 2, depending on tune. TCS at whatever level the tuner dictates.

 

[Adrenaline]

All rules are in the respective Tuning Challenge Championship thread.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Right.

"Assists: Driving aids will be restricted to ABS @ 1 and driving line optional."

So this is quite a handicap for the way I tune. Lower LSD settings to get better corner speed, but requires more throttle control to avoid rear wheel spin. On a 500hp car, I would normally add 2 traction control, just for some error room on the driver's part. So this rule is forcing me to crank up LSD settings to compensate for drivers who may not be as easy on the throttle as others.

Why is traction control limited and ABS is seen as o.k?

 

[Adrenaline]

Right.

"Assists: Driving aids will be restricted to ABS @ 1 and driving line optional."

So this is quite a handicap for the way I tune. Lower LSD settings to get better corner speed, but requires more throttle control to avoid rear wheel spin. On a 500hp car, I would normally add 2 traction control, just for some error room on the driver's part. So this rule is forcing me to crank up LSD settings to compensate for drivers who may not be as easy on the throttle as others.

Why is traction control limited and ABS is seen as o.k?

The other 10 tuners have to take the same issue into consideration.
There are no advantages or handicaps, when everyone is forced to follow the same rules.

 

[Motor City Hami]

The other 10 tuners have to take the same issue into consideration.
There are no advantages or handicaps, when everyone is forced to follow the same rules.

That's one way to look at it. Yes, the rule are the rules, but aids are part of tuning, aren't they? I'm just saying that this handicaps the way I tune and I was looking for some clarrification. I think my tunes are fast. It just seems odd that ABS is seen as an ok aid, but traction control is evil?

 

[budious]

TCS introduces latency between the time a person applies throttle and to the time throttle is applied to the car in game. TCS use under most circumstances reduces average lap time; if you adjusted spring rate, dampers, downforce, and lsd together you could counter act wheelspin issues without TCS use.

 

[Motor City Hami]

TCS introduces latency between the time a person applies throttle and to the time throttle is applied to the car in game. TCS use under most circumstances reduces average lap time; if you adjusted spring rate, dampers, downforce, and lsd together you could counter act wheelspin issues without TCS use.

I know that there are other options. We all tune a little differently. I'm just saying that TCS is a valid way to tune a car. TCS only kicks in if you give it too much throttle. TCS at one or two will rarely do anything for those who drive with an easy throttle application, but for those few times when you over do it by a small amount, it will save you and save your lap time. Put TCS at 2 on a 500 hp car and watch the throttle indicator on the screen. If you see red showing up at the top of that indicator, you are into the TCS. If no red, TCS is not engaged, therefor, not killing your lap time. It's an emergency thing in my tunes.

What's the skill level of our drivers in this competition? All experts? Some are still using automatic transmissions, so we probably have a mix.

To compensate for this, I'm going to have to tune like everyone else and start setting super high LSD numbers. I just think it's good to have some diversity in the way we all come up with our answer to making a car fast. No TCS just takes away a tool that I use as a safety net.

It's Adreneline's competition and he can set the rules. I'm not bitching, just looking for clarrification.

 

[budious]

I know that there are other options. We all tune a little differently. I'm just saying that TCS is a valid way to tune a car. TCS only kicks in if you give it too much throttle. TCS at one or two will rarely do anything for those who drive with an easy throttle application...

What's the skill level of our drivers in this competition? All experts? Some are still using automatic transmissions, so we probably have a mix.

...

It's Adreneline's competition and he can set the rules. I'm not bitching, just looking for clarrification.

Speaking as a driver and not as a fellow tuner, let me say I hate TCS with a passion.

If I was not tuning and volunteering to drive in this competition and your tune spec'd TCS usage, I would probably ignore it. Why? Because I feel like anytime after I've been using TCS that I have a hard time readjusting back to normal throttle control, it completely throws my timing, and endorsing this flawed aid does nothing to help drivers improve throttle control on their own, it just makes them more reliant on using it and they will never attempt not to use it.

As far as it's usage in the competition goes, I do not mind it as an option, because in my opinion, you're setting yourself up for an immediate disadvantage. The only problem I foresee with allowing TCS is that a driver may switch it on and forget to switch it off for the next tune, my tune may suffer from it being on. Therefore, for simplicity, I'd say everyone should just leave it off, always... competition or not.

 

[Motor City Hami]

So why doesn't anyone feel the same way about ABS. Learn to modulate the brakes, right? Just seems like a double standard - not just in this thread - but across GTP. Either all assists off or allow them. Just my opinion.

 

[Adrenaline]

So why doesn't anyone feel the same way about ABS. Learn to modulate the brakes, right? Just seems like a double standard - not just in this thread - but across GTP. Either all assists off or allow them. Just my opinion.

ABS off (in gt5) requires syringe point accuracy and precision, that I can't even perform with pedals, I can't imagine anyone trying to modulate it with DS3; although I'm sure some people can and do successfully. Without the actual hydraulic pressure pushing back against you, it's nearly impossible to gauge the breaking point (no pun intended). I'd even dare to say, it's extremely unrealistic, which isn't necessarily due to the game, but moreso the inability to 'feel' via DS3, pedals etc.

I agree with budious that we don't want to promote people using TCS, as it only hurts you in the long run. I assume test drivers are offering their time, because they want to get better as a driver.

For the record, this isn't my competition, it's our competition. I'm not trying to be a dictator, I welcome all criticism, questions as well as complaints. But that doesn't mean I'll bend to the ways of those complaining at their will. I take things into consideration, sometimes with multiple people and try to come up with a solution that best leads us to the results we're all looking for in the end. TCS is restricted in many rooms I enter daily, but I've yet to see ABS restricted a single time. Others have also expressed that TCS is a potential 'mask' of the tunes true ability, while others may use it as a crutch. I personally feel, that it's in the competitions best interest to continue restricting TCS.

 

[sinistro]

ABS 1 and all other aids off is I think a nice base to create tunes.


The dilemma of my vote was between the nsx and the nismo as I have them both and drive them both also though the nsx is harder to control then the nismo in my opinion and I driving it now more then the nsx so I hope the nismo will be the one here if not I would also be happy with a nsx tune

 

[Adrenaline]

I'm pulling for the Z as well. There's already a couple JGTC NSX tunes around.
The Supra got my vote though! I must say, I assumed people would be drooling over the GT-R, with as many people that I see driving them constantly, I was surprised to see such a low turn out.

 

[GT5SER]

Raybrig NSX! Come on people, vote for that car!

- Jeramy

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Z, GTR and SC430 are the only one without a setup existing already so either would be fine I guess. I just hope we dont end up wiht another NSX tune.

I like that car and I like driving it but there's already lots of tunes around.

 

[Adrenaline]

I have an idea...
This is purely me thinking out loud, and I'd like everyones feedback.

In an attempt to have more cars tuned per month, without increasing work load on drivers or tuners, I thought about splitting the Tuners up based on the previous months results. Then using the TWO cars with the most votes from the poll.

For Example: The Z is currently winning with 27 votes, the NSX trailing with 26.

Based on last months results, the tuners that finished 1,3,5,7,9 would all be assigned the Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z ‘06. Tuners that finished 2,4,6,8,10 would all be assigned the Honda RAYBRIG NSX ‘06. The drivers are doing the same laps as February, but half with 1 car, half with another. Results are divided up by Car, and points award in a 'per division' layout.

Then, next month, the same thing happens, again by scrambling up the results of the previous month, to try and mix up tuners, so they aren't competing against the same tuners each month.

Like I said, this is completely just off the top of my head, I'm looking for feedback from drivers, tuners and spectators. Good, bad, ideas, anything really. But there are only 2 days to discuss it. Let me know! =)

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Not a fan of that; possibly have all tuners do both cars and then split the drivers?

 

[brandon6i]

For April, perhaps a head-to-head rivalry showdown. Evo vs STi, ZR1 vs Viper ACR, come to mind. My thoughts are that each tuner provides a tune for each car, and then the drivers submit their times for both cars.

 

[Basilea]

For April, perhaps a head-to-head rivalry showdown. Evo vs STi, ZR1 vs Viper ACR, come to mind. My thoughts are that each tuner provides a tune for each car, and then the drivers submit their times for both cars.

This is (too) much driving to do, with 2 cars and tunes from each tuner!


By the way it is interesting to see how many votes are already in! And then we have only about 10 drivers and 10 tuners... Where are the other 60 persons?

 

[budious]

This is (too) much driving to do, with 2 cars and tunes from each tuner!

Agreed, I'd rather there be high quality tunes from each tuner in the competition than splitting time between two. Unless the format changed to a two week cycle where tuners get two weeks to tune car B, while tuners test car A; then tuners start on car C, while tuners test car B; that might work in two-week increments, but doing two at the same time doesn't make much sense to me.

To expand the format in any direction is going to require more test drivers first, so until we get 25-30 drivers willing to participate, I think we should just stick to tuning one car a month.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I agree with bodius. Make this by monthly. Tuners turn in tune 1, then work on tune 2 while drivers are completing tune 1.

 

[Adrenaline]

Bump for last day to vote and discuss next months layout...

 

[budious]

Next month's layout?

Tuning?... GT500 cars with Race Hards for tire wear off testing, or GT500 cars with any combination of race tires for 20 consecutive laps timed with tire wear on.

Car poll?... I want Ferrari vs Lamborghini in the poll; or a pre-1980's premiums poll, either would be fine by me.

 

[Adrenaline]

I was refferring to splitting the tuners up and doing 2 cars, or having tuners do 2 cars, 1 due March 14th, the next March 28th. Drivers test Car 1 15th-28th, and then car 2 29th-14th. I just wasn't sure if Drivers wanted an entire months worth of homework.
Or stick with the 1 car, system we used last month.

Someone also mentioned letting drivers use any track they want, rather than forcing all drivers to run a single track. This ensures tuners take all aspects into their tune, and allows them to be able to not be in the dark about the track. It also helps drivers, who may dislike or, simply aren't familiar with the track chosen. This produces more realistic results, seeing as how the driver will be comfortable on their track of choice. The 3 lap average would still be in place, but instead of averaging all driver times together, I'd throw together a simple system designed to keep track of individual driver results.

We have until the 14th to decide on the last part.
Or... we can bring back the multiple round system. Where only the top 4 drivers, tune the 2nd car, keeping the points consistent.

 

[budious]

The current format we still only have two weeks to tune, then two weeks to do nothing but wait... so you might as well make it like what I suggested that we tune a car while the drivers test the previously tuned car, so that way tuners and drivers are always busy. If the other tuners are open to that format, two weeks is plenty of time per tune, imo.

For the track selection, it's an interesting concept to let drivers pick their own track to test on. I'd be willing to give it a one month trial run.

 

[Basilea]

Well the tuners have two week to tune the car anyways, so why having a two weeks break for the next car to be tuned?

I think there should be at least 3 drivers testing a car on a track. It would be good to have more drivers! Right now with 10 drivers, I would suggest to split them in two groups and drive on two tracks!

This month the cars would be first the Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z ‘06 and then in two weeks the Honda RAYBRIG NSX ‘06. Half of the drivers tests the Nissan on track A, the other half on track B and the Honda is tested the other way around. Some drivers maybe have the time and will to drive each car on both tracks...