Codemasters to acquire Slightly Mad Studios

[killerjimbag]

Imagine, if you will, somebody who isn't as up to date on sim racers as we are, being on this forum. Imagine having a game, like PCARS 2, that doesn't have good handling out of the box for controller users, which in 100% of circumstances based around that context, they're going to be using to play the game. They realize that the game handles like soap bars on ice, and they don't know how to set it up. They go into the menu, and they're thrown all these bars and fiddly things. Sure, they could look up settings on Youtube or Google, and the descriptions added into the game help a bit, but still, the fact that you're putting the onus on the player to deal with the frankly **** controller settings, something that a good chunk of players who aren't die hard sim racers are using, is a bit insulting. Especially when this has been a problem for SMS since NFS Shift at the earliest. At what point is enough, enough? You're alienating a good chunk of your player base, especially those that join after launch, by basically giving them hostile pad control, and telling them tough luck in order to fix it at a deeper level then settings put on by themselves.



There is a world of difference between setting up an analogue, $300 luxury item to your own specifications in terms of handling and control, and setting up something that every games console in existence comes with. The fact that you can't see this is painful.



Once again - other developers have managed to retain their sim racing credibility by offering pad control that doesn't actively make it worse for a major sub sect of those playing it. So...why the hostility towards people suggesting SMS do the same, especially when it has been a major problem for most of the history that the dev has been a major part of the genre?

It is a simple process to fix. SMS has had it mentioned to them enough times that they are looking at it for PCARS Revolution (But then again, they said the same things about PCARS 2, and I and other didn't see much improvement in that regard, so forgive me for not believing it again) So why are you being hostile towards those that are rightfully pointing it out?

Please stop with the silly nonsense. There is way more to setting up a wheel than a controller. Who cares what the cost is. If you can afford to buy the game,do your research. You know using that internet thingy that you pay for. Here I'll do it for you,hey google pcars 2 controller settings. Wow,that was hard. Which one of the 100 or so search results should I use? I know today's world is a difficult lesson in doing things yourself. So now that it's been explained again and again enjoy the game. I have to go find a good recipe for homemade eggnog.

 

[Nielsen]

Like you pointed out, I even said the in the above comment that it shouldn't of shipped with them settings & I agree with you, but come on do you really feel that hard done by because you have to spend a minute of your time adjusting it.

Spending a minute adjusting controller settings - that is what I did with Dirt Rally 2.0. Happiness achieved.

With Project CARS 2 I'm still tweaking controller settings to this day. It's playable but the sweet spot doesn't seem to exist. Pointing this out and seeing potential in Codemasters now potentially sharing expertise with SMS in this area isn't the crime you make it seem like.

 

[Northstar]

Right,I deliver steel for a living. What the customer wants isn't always what they need. So what is your point. The customer isn't always correct. Do you sell them a bigger unit than they need. No two people will think a setting is perfect. Giving them what they want isn't necessarily what they need.

It really has nothing to do with the "customer is always right" thing and everything with taking pride in your work. In your line of work im guessing there are certain procedures when it comes to loading and unloading a delivery. Or do you just haphazardly put stuff on your truck than unload it wherever is convenient for you?

This is one of the only reasons I view this merger as a positive as Codies does a very good job with quality control.

 

[Whitestar]

Overly optimistic voice incoming: When I saw this announcement my first thought was "Ah, maybe we'll get proper tyre model, physics and ffb in F1 2020".
Now that would be something.

 

[burgavo]

But what does this mean for the "MadBox"?...

 

[Wolfe]

@killerjimbag -- I'm one who defends PCARS2 with some regularity when I feel its shortcomings in analog stick steering have been exaggerated, or that comments are dated to the state it was in at launch.

If you don't believe the game leaves a lot of room for improvement, based on your attitude, it's only because you just don't care. I get along pretty well with it, and it still could be much better -- I would be lying to pretend otherwise.

 

[killerjimbag]

@killerjimbag -- I'm one who defends PCARS2 with some regularity when I feel its shortcomings in analog stick steering have been exaggerated, or that comments are dated to the state it was in at launch.

If you don't believe the game leaves a lot of room for improvement, based on your attitude, it's only because you just don't care. I get along pretty well with it, and it still could be much better -- I would be lying to pretend otherwise.

Ok so you get along with it. Great,awesome. You do realize the game was originally designed for PC. As well as AC and games going back to Nascar 2003. I have used a wheel since 2003. Do you see people using controllers in any live event sponsored by any racing game? When you show me an ESports event using controllers for a driving game send me the video. No game will make everyone happy.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Spending a minute adjusting controller settings - that is what I did with Dirt Rally 2.0. Happiness achieved.

With Project CARS 2 I'm still tweaking controller settings to this day. It's playable but the sweet spot doesn't seem to exist. Pointing this out and seeing potential in Codemasters now potentially sharing expertise with SMS in this area isn't the crime you make it seem like.

I've already said & agreed with @Northstar that it should've been right out of the box, so argument over on that one.

The fact is that some people are fine with a little tweaking & have found their sweet spot with a controller & some people haven't.

But personally I think there are more pressing issues that affected even more people that need to be sorted/solved in the next game than the fact that you have to spend a little time adjusting your controller, which is all I see lately, constantly.

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that you have to tweak the AI on every track just to have a decent race?

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that weather / puddles do not effect AI?

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that it's 50/50 whether the car you pick has already been setup for you?

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that most people have had online issues (stability or something else)

Why are we not all hoping that PCR will function 100% on all consoles not just the more powerful ones (if they happen) & get released fully polished.

There are still some questionable physics about PC2 that I hope gets sorted in the next game, but I've moaned & said my piece about all this stuff before, so no need to bring it up constantly, which is all I hear/read about regarding PC2 & it's playability with a controller.

Sorry but it's not in my list of priorities that myself & I believe quite a few others aswell require to be sorted out for PCR.

 

[Nielsen]

I've already said & agreed with @Northstar that it should've been right out of the box, so argument over on that one.

The fact is that some people are fine with a little tweaking & have found their sweet spot with a controller & some people haven't.

But personally I think there are more pressing issues that affected even more people that need to be sorted/solved in the next game than the fact that you have to spend a little time adjusting your controller, which is all I see lately, constantly.

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that you have to tweak the AI on every track just to have a decent race?

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that weather / puddles do not effect AI?

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that it's 50/50 whether the car you pick has already been setup for you?

Why are we not constantly bringing up the fact that most people have had online issues (stability or something else)

Why are we not all hoping that PCR will function 100% on all consoles not just the more powerful ones (if they happen) & get released fully polished.

There are still some questionable physics about PC2 that I hope gets sorted in the next game, but I've moaned & said my piece about all this stuff before, so no need to bring it up constantly, which is all I hear/read about regarding PC2 & it's playability with a controller.

Sorry but it's not in my list of priorities that myself & I believe quite a few others aswell require to be sorted out for PCR.

I only mentioned the controller aspect because I think Codemasters can make a positive difference for SMS in this regard. While the other issues you mention are probably equally valid, I’d say Codemasters have their own challenges to sort out in some of those areas.

 

[Wolfe]

Ok so you get along with it. Great,awesome. You do realize the game was originally designed for PC. As well as AC and games going back to Nascar 2003. I have used a wheel since 2003. Do you see people using controllers in any live event sponsored by any racing game? When you show me an ESports event using controllers for a driving game send me the video. No game will make everyone happy.

I had my first wheel in the 1990s. I'm not uninitiated with wheels; I chose to play Project CARS with a controller. One reason for that is all the complaints about narrowing down a comfortable FFB setting -- I know from my extensive experience that I'm a bit of a stickler for FFB. Therefore, I'm fine sticking with the DS4, upsides and downsides, over gambling time and money on a DriveHub and suitable mounting apparatus to plug in my G25, only to find that the FFB might not satisfy (or the physics, in the context of using a wheel).

Of course, if not for Sony's shenanigans with driver compatibility, I would have given my G25 a try already...and I would probably hop on investing in a DriveHub if not for the risk of incompatibility with the PS5.

How does it matter what is used in esports for how a mass-market multiplatform videogame should be designed? No one claimed wheels aren't inherently superior for a competition context. There are other uses for the racing sim software besides esports competition, you know.

You are aware you can drive a real car with a controller, right? This isn't even the first time I've seen this stunt, by more than a decade. Input -> Output, regardless if the controller inputs are interpreted by a sim engine and simulated physics, or by calibrated physical actuators and real world physics:

 

[killerjimbag]

I had my first wheel in the 1990s. I'm not uninitiated with wheels; I chose to play Project CARS with a controller. One reason for that is all the complaints about narrowing down a comfortable FFB setting -- I know from my extensive experience that I'm a bit of a stickler for FFB. Therefore, I'm fine sticking with the DS4, upsides and downsides, over gambling time and money on a DriveHub and suitable mounting apparatus to plug in my G25, only to find that the FFB might not satisfy (or the physics, in the context of using a wheel).

Of course, if not for Sony's shenanigans with driver compatibility, I would have given my G25 a try already...and I would probably hop on investing in a DriveHub if not for the risk of incompatibility with the PS5.

How does it matter what is used in esports for how a mass-market multiplatform videogame should be designed? No one claimed wheels aren't inherently superior for a competition context. There are other uses for the racing sim software besides esports competition, you know.

You are aware you can drive a real car with a controller, right? This isn't even the first time I've seen this stunt, by more than a decade. Input -> Output, regardless if the controller inputs are interpreted by a sim engine and simulated physics, or by calibrated physical actuators and real world physics:

Yes there are mass market cars being produced using a controller. Come on let's try and be serious for a minute. Clearly when I play PCars,Wreckfest,AC, etc you can tell whom is using a controller. One of my friends has had enough of using a controller a purchased a wheel. His first comment after using a wheel. I'm never going back to a controller. To each his own.

 

[Wolfe]

Clearly when I play PCars,Wreckfest,AC, etc you can tell whom is using a controller.

Not everyone I've played with online in PCARS2 could tell without me mentioning it. As it is, the game is comfortable enough for me to smoothly navigate most bends in most cars. What could use improving is oversteer/countersteer control and the logic of the dampening algorithm, as well as fixes for the specific cars with steering way twitchier than most others for some reason.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I only mentioned the controller aspect because I think Codemasters can make a positive difference for SMS in this regard. While the other issues you mention are probably equally valid, I’d say Codemasters have their own challenges to sort out in some of those areas.

I respect & understand your point of view on that, I personally feel that most codemasters games after GRID 1 have been just as bad at handling on a controller before a little tweaking as some people say PC2 is.

So I will agree with both party's on the fence here regarding controller playability, it should either be shipped dialed into perfection or left at 1:1 default for people to have the option.

Either way, I was wrong to attack people veiws (especially @Northstar) on the matter & we all must realise that it's never going to suite every one of us.

It's a sim, a little tweaking here & there will always be required. Just be glad we're on console & not a PC all I see is them guys fiddling with settings.

(was me once)

So let's just all hope that PCR is the best it can be for all of us.

 

[Wolfe]

I respect & understand your point of view on that, I personally feel that most codemasters games after GRID 1 have been just as bad at handling on a controller before a little tweaking as some people say PC2 is.

So I will agree with both party's on the fence here regarding controller playability, it should either be shipped dialed into perfection or left at 1:1 default for people to have the option.

I could not disagree more with your preference for direct 1:1 control, yet I would agree completely that the steering in Codemasters games has been even more bothersome than PCARS2 for a long time. Extra twitchy and punitive for no good reason, which isn't helped any by the oldschool pivot-steering at the core of CM's gray-haired game engine.

In terms of physics/handling and analog stick steering, I would much, much rather play PCARS2 than anything Codemasters has made for years. In fairness - default settings versus default settings? Maybe not. Which goes to show how SMS could have done better.

It's a sim, a little tweaking here & there will always be required. Just be glad we're on console & not a PC all I see is them guys fiddling with settings.

(was me once)

Me too. Not real interested in going back to relying on fickle PC software for my sim racing needs -- no matter how pretty it could be or how many (predominantly shoddy) mods I could have at my disposal.

 

[Ian Bell]

Spending a minute adjusting controller settings - that is what I did with Dirt Rally 2.0. Happiness achieved.

With Project CARS 2 I'm still tweaking controller settings to this day. It's playable but the sweet spot doesn't seem to exist. Pointing this out and seeing potential in Codemasters now potentially sharing expertise with SMS in this area isn't the crime you make it seem like.

I agree with you. We have transformed this area in a very good way. Prior to our Codies deal. You'll see. It's as good as it can get now in my humble opinion and that's down to some very good work from the people at Evolution we employed last year.

 

[EleSigma]

I agree with you. We have transformed this area in a very good way. Prior to our Codies deal. You'll see. It's as good as it can get now in my humble opinion and that's down to some very good work from the people at Evolution we employed last year.

I hope this doesn't alter plans for Project Cars 3, the term I fear "executive meddling" comes to mind.

 

[Konan]

I hope this doesn't alter plans for Project Cars 3, the term I fear "executive meddling" comes to mind.

Ian stated PCR will go ahead as planned....

 

[MroczMR]

I hope SMS will get access to people who programmed AI for GRID... I love it. It would really benefit in more realistic racer.

 

[MarcoM]

Although I did play a lot pc2, I constantly see myself getting over to AC and DR2. The FFB is too cumbersome in pc2. In AC and DR2 (post patch of course) it feels just right without having to tinker too much.

So I hope Codemastes stays on track FFB wise.

The day night transitions and variable weather in PC2 are very good of course. But not good enough to keep me playing it.

 

[artem9000]

I don't know cases when studio was acquired by bigger one and saved development on their products on the same level, or even saved them at all. Evolution studios after Driveclub makes Onrush. Obviously SMS will take part on F1 and Grid series in Codemasters. At least we can hope that Codies will let SMS end their Pcars successor production. But new like this doesn't encourages much:

Firewatch team’s next game ‘on hold’ as it works on other Valve projects
https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/3/20994257/valve-in-the-valley-of-gods-campo-santo-half-life-alyx