COMPARO: Jaguar XJS vs. MB 600SL vs. BMW 850CSi
- Thread starter 12sec. Civic
- 63 comments
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I thought "-si" meant it was already halfway to M-whatever, and that the modifications came from the M Divisions. After all, wasn't the 635Csi sort of re-badged the M6? There's also the fact that, through today, all M's have been odd numbers (M1, M3, M5...upcoming M1...supposed M7).
- 1,695
I hope they make a Z4 M Roadster. I have been hearing things about the Z4 that are quite remarkable. Alot of magazines are saying that it makes the Z3 seem like a Pontiac Firefly.
On paper however, the Z4 looks like a step back for BMW. it is almost 200lbs heavier than the Z3 and costs something like $3,000 more than a Z3.
- 1,695
I started out hating it. But it slowly grew on me. Especially when a friend of mines parents went out of town leaving their 2000 BMW Z3 3.0i 5 Spd. I am telling you, that car is fast, it would give many cars a run for their money. I am quite certain it would walk away from cars like the Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo, Mustang GT 5.0 in a race.
I couldn't test the handling very well on the city streets, but the brakes are unstoppable and phenomenal.
I have never driven a car that stops with the vehemence of the Z3. Mind you, my dad just owns a bunch of heavy Jaguars, so that is all I have to compare it with.
Anyways, dont bash the Z3. The 3.0i has 225hp and weighs under 3,000lbs. I would guess the 0-60 is probably close to 5.7 seconds. And everyone knows that the handling is way above it's class.
GilesGuthrie
Staff Emeritus
- 11,038
- Edinburgh, UK
- CMDRTheDarkLord
A quick look on autotrader.co.uk reveals an 850i for £7500 and a CSi for £7995... I would have said that that was a lot of car for the money
advanR
(Banned)
- 1,389
alright. Maybe the 6 cylinder wasnt too bad. I just havent thought as the z3 as a very solid car. Even if it is quick that doesnt mean much. Almost any car can make power.
Remember there was an M roadster also. I would guess that had the 280hp 6cylinder from the e36 M3. That would be pretty quick Im sure. I dont really like convertibles, so the M coupe always appealed to me. I havent researched it but would guess its lighter than the M3 itself, and also compared to an M3 they are a bit cheaper (i think, dont hold me to it).
Remember there was an M roadster also. I would guess that had the 280hp 6cylinder from the e36 M3. That would be pretty quick Im sure. I dont really like convertibles, so the M coupe always appealed to me. I havent researched it but would guess its lighter than the M3 itself, and also compared to an M3 they are a bit cheaper (i think, dont hold me to it).
- 1,695
The M Roadster and M Coupe had 240hp I6's from 1997-2000. The M Roaster and M Coupe had 315hp I6's from 2001-2002.
These cars do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. The M Coupe is faster than a Z8 according to Car and Driver.
The M Coupe also weighs less than especially the M3, and even lighter than the Z3 Roadster.
The 1.9L 4 Cyl was offered in the Z3 for 2 years ('97,'98). Its first years on the market. They(BMW) had in mind something reminiscent of a true British roadster with the emphasis on handling and chassis dynamics, instead of power. The same image the Miata's success is based on.
Of course, people complained (especially the Americans), that the car was underpowered, especially for its price and its potential, due to its strong chassis. Which is a shortened version of the 3 Series' chassis.
The Z3 4 Cyls unfortunately only had 138hp and did 0-60 in about 8.5 seconds. Subsequently, you can pick up a '97 for under $10,000 USD.
Not a bad buy in my mind. Possibly a future car?
- 1,695
Originally posted by M5Power
Do a bit of research on what a 1997 Miata with a four costs today.Comparatively, the Z3 sucks.
Well, I am pretty sure the Z3 handles a bit better. It also has a slight horsepower and displacement advantage.
But honestly, I dont want to be mistaken for a gay hairdresser in a Miata, when a BMW Z3 is going to pick up 300 times as many chicks, has better resale and is undoubtedly made better and is way higher quality.
I do kind of like Miatas however. And despite what I just said, the Miata is 800lbs lighter and would probably handle better and is probably faster. Plus the Miata has WAY more aftermarket parts. So now I am arguing with myself about two different cars and whoops, I've gone cross-eyed!
Well, how's this: The Z3 does not handle better. Drive both cars. The Miata is a drivers' car. The Z3 has better re-sale? GOOD! It cost $10,000 more new! But the truth is that it depreciated more than the Miata. Naturally, it's still more expensive. Higher quality the Z3 has, and it damn well better since it costs so much more. Quality by cost, the Miata wins very easily. Good reference on picking up chicks, there.
- 6,847
- SeismicGravy
Originally posted by advanR
damn... everybody take a look at this 850CSi and tell me you dont want one.
http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=10161
It may not be sporty but it looks extremely nice and has a very torquey v12 to back it up. Im sure the inside looks and feels as nice as the outside.
Would I take this over a common SL? Yes. I love BMWs.
Sorry, but that BMW is nasty. It's overdone, overweight and unfortunately, over here.
advanR
(Banned)
- 1,389
so its overweight......... I wouldnt exactly consider it for a track car. its a street car. I wouldnt care how much it weighs because i would be cruising in it. i dont drive like an a-hole on the streets anyways.
also, this is a comparo. I would take this over the other 2 cars in this comparison. all 3 are overwieght, non race cars.
also, this is a comparo. I would take this over the other 2 cars in this comparison. all 3 are overwieght, non race cars.
Originally posted by TVRKing
Sorry, but that BMW is nasty. It's overdone, overweight and unfortunately, over here.
All the cars we're comparing are "overweight". They're all luxury coupes. By today's standards, they're all a bit lardy, but 5-10 years ago (when they were new), they were all hot stuff.
advanR
(Banned)
- 1,389
Heres the link I was looking for.
http://www.e31.net/navmodelle_e.html
This site says the S70 powerplant in the 850CSi, among other cars, was the base for the engine created for the Mclaren F1.
It also has info about the M8. It was created, but only as a prototype. BMW didnt put it into production because there wasnt really a market for a car of its kind. Because the S70 was built by BMW's M division, some people consider the 850CSi an M8. ANdI have a hard time disagreeing with them. The car is M worthy.
http://www.e31.net/navmodelle_e.html
This site says the S70 powerplant in the 850CSi, among other cars, was the base for the engine created for the Mclaren F1.
It also has info about the M8. It was created, but only as a prototype. BMW didnt put it into production because there wasnt really a market for a car of its kind. Because the S70 was built by BMW's M division, some people consider the 850CSi an M8. ANdI have a hard time disagreeing with them. The car is M worthy.
- 1,695
This thread is 1 month old and every car has had the lead at one time or another. The MB got way ahead of the others, and now the BMW's pretty far in the lead now. The Jag has had about 1 vote a week.
GilesGuthrie
Staff Emeritus
- 11,038
- Edinburgh, UK
- CMDRTheDarkLord
OMG! In the UK, the Z3 is amongst the ultimate hairdressers' cars. I would choose an MX5 over a Z3 every single time.
I think the core difference between those two cars is that Mazda knew what they were doing when they built the MX5, whereas BMW just tried to fling any old car into the marketplace. It's pretty much an E36 parts-bin special, with lots of bits taken from the Compact. BMW had no idea about building a car that cheap, and so whereas the MX5 is spartan, the Z3 feels tacky and nasty.
IMO, the strategy they're pursuing with the Z4, to bring it in a step above the MX5 is that which they should have pursued all along. Everyone knows that cheap BMWs are no better than normal cars, it's probably time that BMW faced up to that reality. I'd much rather have something like a loaded Mondeo than a base-model 318.
- 1,695
I keep hearing about "Hairdressers Cars" from you Brits.
They all seem to be similar cars. Flashy convertibles.
Some of the cars I have heard being refferred to as "Hairdressers Cars" are the BMW Z3, Porsche Boxster and Honda S2000. This makes me wonder, How much do you guys pay your hairdressers?
Around here, you would have to be a mildly successful businessman to own those cars. The hairdressers I see around here are driving 1989 Tercels and Plymouth Sundances.
What's the deal? These are respectable sports cars thats value shouldnt be based on the image it falls under.
London is the most expensive place in the world to rent office space. So maybe the hairdressers are charging thru the ass to keep a nice location. Thus they are driving fancy sports cars.
They all seem to be similar cars. Flashy convertibles.
Some of the cars I have heard being refferred to as "Hairdressers Cars" are the BMW Z3, Porsche Boxster and Honda S2000. This makes me wonder, How much do you guys pay your hairdressers?
Around here, you would have to be a mildly successful businessman to own those cars. The hairdressers I see around here are driving 1989 Tercels and Plymouth Sundances.
What's the deal? These are respectable sports cars thats value shouldnt be based on the image it falls under.
London is the most expensive place in the world to rent office space. So maybe the hairdressers are charging thru the ass to keep a nice location. Thus they are driving fancy sports cars.
- 1,695
I see this in the opposite way. I would rather have the BMW because its engine, tranny and chassis are all much better quality with a lot more engineering involved. Plus it would have higher re-sale etc.
I see the loaded Mondeo as a crappy car hiding beneath a bunch of gimmicks and flashy garbage which I dont want in a car nearly as much as pure rock-solid engineering, which BMW has designed for their entire model line-up. You just happen to get all of this state-of-the-art stuff because the rich guys buying the 330's and 5 series' have paid for all if this fancy stuff to be parts binned into your fairly inexpensive car.
- 1,695
That may be true for the MG TF. But do you think that of the other cars I mentioned?
PS: Yesterday my dad bought a Lotus Elan from a guy down the street. I know its front wheel drive, but when we popped the hood the engine block says "ISUZU". My dad knows about this, but what the hell is going on. How can Lotus get away with that?
I consider this to be a hairdressers car. Just to stay on topic.
I havent driven it yet, but it needs a tranny overhaul, thats why my dad got it for an embarrassingly low price. Apparently it used to be the best handling FWD car on Earth. But I doubt this is still true.
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