COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Dennisch]

But heaven forbid that the production of games consoles is impacted or that some luxury goods might go up in price!!

Remember when that earthquake rocked Japan in 2011 and the panic that followed in the GT sections? Hilarious and saddening at the same time.

 

[Marc30599]

So is U.S. gonna stop flights to and from china? Has it happened already or they waiting for something?

 

[Joey D]

So is U.S. gonna stop flights to and from china? Has it happened already or they waiting for something?

I believe some airlines have already stopped. I can't seem to find a Delta flight going there.

 

[TJ13]

We are on the cusp of a possible global pandemic, with millions of people facing sickness or death, weeks or months of self-imposed or enforced isolation/quarantine, weeks or months of severe restrictions on international travel and commerce, and possible shortages of critical medical supplies.

But heaven forbid that the production of games consoles is impacted or that some luxury goods might go up in price!!

I was more referring to the medical supplies. .
But consoles may go up too.

 

[Marc30599]

I believe some airlines have already stopped. I can't seem to find a Delta flight going there.

ok thanks cause im gonna be booking my flight to go back home to the DC, Virginia, Maryland area for spring break but the airport im going to has international and national seperated so theres that

 

[Dotini]

I'm in Singapore for the rest of the month. Wonder whether the UK will adopt an inbound quarantine for returnees. I'm more worried for my 83-year old mum. The airports are like ghost towns and toilet paper and other goods are flying off the shelves as it uses the same components as medical face masks.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/e...nic-buying-in-hong-kong-over-shortage-rumours

An inbound process for people from Singapore has already been promulgated by your government, and it seems very mild. The number of confirmed cases in Singapore now stands at 33. If it takes off exponentially like Wuhan did, mandatory 14 day quarantine may be required upon your return by the end of the month.

From the BBC

The third person in the UK to be diagnosed with coronavirus caught it in Singapore, it is understood.

He is thought to have tested positive for the virus in Brighton before being taken to hospital in London.

The government is now telling travellers arriving in the UK from a total of nine Asian countries and territories to check for symptoms.

They are advised to stay at home and call the NHS if they are ill and have flown home in the past 14 days.

The initial advice had only covered mainland China, but now also includes:

• Thailand
• Japan
• Republic of Korea
• Taiwan
• Singapore
• Malaysia
• Hong Kong
• Macau

Anyone returning in the past fortnight from those place who has symptoms like a cough, fever, or shortness of breath should stay indoors and call the NHS 111 service.

The Department of Health said they should do so "even if symptoms are mild", adding: "These countries have been identified because of the volume of air travel from affected areas, understanding of other travel routes and number of reported cases. This list will be kept under review."

The new UK patient is understood to be a middle-aged man who was isolated at home, tested positive and was taken to St Thomas's Hospital in central London, where he is being treated at a specialist infectious diseases unit. It had previously been reported he was at Guy's Hospital in the city.

It is the first UK case in which the virus was contracted outside mainland China.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51398039[/QUOTE]

 

[McLaren]

I believe some airlines have already stopped. I can't seem to find a Delta flight going there.

I think United is the only major one still flying there?

Some really cheap deals if you’re up to press your luck. $650 round trips to Hong Kong out of California.

 

[Marc30599]

I think United is the only major one still flying there?

Some really cheap deals if you’re up to press your luck. $650 round trips to Hong Kong out of California.

I wouldnt be risking it lol

 

[Rage Racer]

https://apnews.com/78ea5b0646564a6eb98d9d20d5fbcbb6

Hm, I see.
I don't watch the Chinese politics much, so I didn't even know their GenSec office used to have a term limit. Anyway, the German chancellor office doesn't have term limits, too, although the Kanzler is elected by the Bundestag (not by the national voting, @PeterJB , which is hardly democratic IMO).

He's president of the country of China (The PRC) and the general secretary of the ruling party of China (CPC).

My bad, there was my translation error.
When Xi is introduced in the Russian sources, they use a word different from "president" for his office. But to English, this word is translated as "president", too.

The Chinese government tried to cover up the virus outbreak at first and even punished the doctor who discovered it. Winnie the Pooh Xi is definitely pulling the strings on that one. I don't think millions are already dead, but China is really untrustworthy when it comes to just about everything. I'm guessing the number of infected is far higher than they are claiming

With this kind of logic, you may draw literally ANY numbers of infected and dead and they will be impossible to disprove. No matter how China tries to defend its official data, the conspiracy theorists will still say "China is hiding it! There are 1000x more victims, people found it out were killed, and people who saw them being killed were killed too", and so on. It's like the Russel's teapot - no one can disprove its existence.

and I suspect many other countries know this which is why they are evacuating their citizens.

You mean 500+ dead isn't enough to start itching about their own citizens?
And if these countries know the 'real' number of victims, why don't they tell?

Not to mention the rumors and videos like this one (warning, this probably contains gov sanctioned kidnapping) of the Chinese gov silencing and arresting anyone who talks about the virus

All I see there is an ambulance car and medics packing a potentially infected person who resists. Or you suggest they should have let him walk free and keep spreading the infection?

I know what are these rumors like. In the Russian internet, there are, too, people who post things like "the coronavirus is here, I saw a Chinese woman coughing and running away when I looked at her", "there are 70 dead in Siberia already, Putin is hiding it!" or even "coronavirus is Putin's bio weapon that he's testing in China". When you ask them about any proof of what they say, they respond in a way like "How do YOU prove that it's wrong?".

Every time a tradegy happens over there (like a terrorist attack or fire in Kemerovo in March 2018), there are always freaks popping up on the Internet with messages like "there are hundreds more victims, the government is lying!", "I've seen trucks full of bodies, but couldn't take a photo" or "this is Putin's inside job, no doubt about it". I've personally seen such comments left by bots - empty profiles, and in threads completely unrelated to the topic. Some bot farms seemed to be working, possibly foreign-backed.

The rumors about massive, five figure numbers of dead look like an infowar to me. In emergency situation like the epidemic, fake news may cause panic and destabilize the situation, and it's completely understandable if China locks such people up.
It's not like I'm defending China because I like it so much (I don't) or because it's Russia's ally (it's not). I don't care what country it is - China, Japan, North or South Korea, or Zimbabwe - no matter what, attacking a country in an infowar over a tradegy with 500+ fatalities is just disgusting.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Anyway, the German chancellor office doesn't have term limits, too, although the Kanzler is elected by the Bundestag (not by the national voting which is hardly democratic IMO).

It's the same in Britain, the first (or prime) minister is elected by the majority party, so the leader is returned by the largest party that the democracy returns. That's completely different from China where the leader is the leader and that's that.

 

[baldgye]

Hm, I see.
I don't watch the Chinese politics much, so I didn't even know their GenSec office used to have a term limit

What is wrong with Xi Jingping that you guys seem to think of him as of some kind of pharaon (president-for-life)? His current time in power (since March 2013) is twice shorter than that of such free world leader as Angela Merkel. He hasn't beat Barrack Obama's time of presidency yet, too. On a cite note, Xi isn't a president (there's no president in PRC), he's the general secretary (like the Soviet leaders before Gorbachov. We have the gensec term as the shorter name for that).

lel

 

[Joey D]

With this kind of logic, you may draw literally ANY numbers of infected and dead and they will be impossible to disprove. No matter how China tries to defend its official data, the conspiracy theorists will still say "China is hiding it! There are 1000x more victims, people found it out were killed, and people who saw them being killed were killed too", and so on. It's like the Russel's teapot - no one can disprove its existence.

I mean China isn't the most trustworthy source on anything and has a history of covering up and downplaying things. I'm not sure why this time would be any different. They often like to present an image that everything is completely fine because they have to keep their citizens in the dark, even when everything isn't fine.

You mean 500+ dead isn't enough to start itching about their own citizens?
And if these countries know the 'real' number of victims, why don't they tell?

No, 500 dead isn't really a call for worry. 500 people (or more) die a week from the flu in the US and it's not even remotely alarming nor do you see people being evacuated from the US over it.

As for not saying anything. I'm not sure a country would want to give away how much of an intelligence network they have in another country.

 

[UKMikey]

I eagerly await tales of your Bugis Street adventures over in the Transgender thread.

@UKMikey I know you will already be on top of the situation, but I would seriously keep an eye on travel restrictions back to the UK, esp. from Singapore etc. (The latest UK case was apparently from Singapore and had not been to China before catching the virus)... if you are seriously concerned, I wouldn't take any chances and make your excuses and leave, esp. if you might be needed at home. I doubt it will come to that and you will, in all likelihood, be fine until the end of the month, but I would have a Plan B ready to go at a moment's notice if I were you.

They may quarantine us on the way back but only if we have symptoms, as I understand it. Maybe another couple of weeks in quarantine if things get worse. My boss grumbled like hell when I asked for four weeks' leave. I would like to see his face if I'm forced to take two more.

I'm staying until the end of the month. Any moments' notice plan is likely to involve spending thousands of pounds on a last minute flight. Not likely to happen unless absolutely necessary thanks. If we go to red alert here we have to leave within fourteen days anyway.

 

[Dotini]

Forty confirmed cases in Singapore.

Case 40 is a 36-year-old male Singapore Citizen with no recent travel history to China.

Health advisory

30. Singaporeans are advised to defer all travel to Hubei Province and all non-essential travel to Mainland China.

31. All travellers should monitor their health closely for two weeks upon return to Singapore and seek medical attention promptly if they feel unwell. Travellers should inform their doctor of their travel history. If they have a fever or respiratory symptoms (e.g. cough, shortness of breath), they should wear a mask and call the clinic ahead of the visit.Travellers and members of the public should adopt the following precautions at all times:

• Avoid close contact with people who are unwell or showing symptoms of illness;
• Observe good personal hygiene;
• Practise frequent hand washing with soap (e.g. before handling food or eating, after going to toilet, or when hands are dirtied by respiratory secretions after coughing or sneezing);
• Wear a mask if you have respiratory symptoms such as a cough or shortness of breath;
• Cover your mouth with a tissue paper when coughing or sneezing, and dispose the soiled tissue paper in the rubbish bin immediately; and
• Seek medical attention promptly if you are feeling unwell.

Update on contact tracing for confirmed cases

28. Contact tracing for the confirmed cases is ongoing. Once identified, MOH will closely monitor all close contacts. As a precautionary measure, they will be quarantined for 14 days from their last exposure to the patient. In addition, all other identified contacts who have a low risk of being infected will be under active surveillance, and will be contacted daily to monitor their health status.

29. As of 8 February 2020, 12pm, MOH has identified 758 close contacts. Of the 663 who are still in Singapore, 647 have been contacted and are being quarantined or isolated. Efforts are ongoing to contact the remaining 16 close contacts.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlig...s-of-novel-coronavirus-infection-in-singapore

 

[UKMikey]

This is what the Sing authorities have released about the 43 cases so far. I wish we had this level of info in the UK.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...ingapore-confirmed-cases-coronavirus-12324270

 

[Touring Mars]

The UK has declared 2019-nCoV as a 'serious and imminent threat to public health' which means that people can now be forcibly quarantined.

There is already rumblings of disquiet about this, and I expect opposition to enforced quarantine to be pretty high. I guess it is not a popular step anywhere, but I also suspect that it is somewhat easier in a country like China, where there is less likelihood of civil disobedience. The UK, on the other hand, might be a different matter.

 

[Danoff]

The UK has declared 2019-nCoV as a 'serious and imminent threat to public health' which means that people can now be forcibly quarantined.

There is already rumblings of disquiet about this, and I expect opposition to enforced quarantine to be pretty high. I guess it is not a popular step anywhere, but I also suspect that it is somewhat easier in a country like China, where there is less likelihood of civil disobedience. The UK, on the other hand, might be a different matter.

If they had any ulterior motives this would be a good cover to enforce them.

 

[UKMikey]

*Update on 2019-nCoV cases*
MOH has confirmed 2 new cases as of 12pm on 10 Feb. One was on the evacuation flight from Wuhan.
1 more confirmed case has been discharged from hospital today.
Confirmed: 45
Tested negative: 581
Pending results: 39
Discharged: 7
Most of remaining 38 are stable or improving. 7 are in critical condition in ICU.
Case 44: Male S'porean, 37, no recent travel history to China, worked at Certis Cisco Centre, was on duty at Chingay 2020, stays at Sembawang Drive
Case 45: Female S’porean, 2, evacuated from Wuhan on 30 Jan
*No evidence of transmission through aerosol*
Based on evidence available in China, an expert from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention has said that there is currently no evidence that the virus can be transmitted through aerosol. The currently known transmission routes of the virus are via respiratory droplets and physical contact.
More: https://go.gov.sg/moh10feb

Here's a photo from the local shopping centre.

 

[Rallywagon]

The UK has declared 2019-nCoV as a 'serious and imminent threat to public health' which means that people can now be forcibly quarantined.

There is already rumblings of disquiet about this, and I expect opposition to enforced quarantine to be pretty high. I guess it is not a popular step anywhere, but I also suspect that it is somewhat easier in a country like China, where there is less likelihood of civil disobedience. The UK, on the other hand, might be a different matter.

There's already a little bit of grumbling about this here in the states too. A number of the "NRA cards holders" are already talking about what to expect if this is tried in the US.

 

[Dotini]

Here's a photo from the local shopping centre.

View attachment 889567

The cited article mentions aerosol transmission. Of course this would be the worst possible nightmare scenario. The following article mentions the term obsessively over and over again. (emphasis added)

SINGAPORE: There is no evidence the novel coronavirus is passed on through aerosol transmission, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said on Monday (Feb 10) as it gave an update on the coronavirus situation in Singapore.

The ministry said it looked into reports the virus could be transmitted through aerosol, but that there was currently no indication this could happen.

"Based on evidence available in China, an expert from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention has said that there is currently no evidence that the virus can be transmitted through aerosol," said MOH.

The currently known transmission routes of the virus are via respiratory droplets and physical contact, it said.

An aerosol refers to a suspension of fine solid or liquid particles in gas.

A researcher with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention on Sunday told reporters the novel coronavirus does not suspend or float in the air for a long time.

No evidence has shown that the new virus can be transmitted through aerosol, Xinhua quoted Feng Luzhao as saying.

The virus is mainly transmitted through respiratory droplets and contact, and normally within a range of one to two metres, the report added.

Feng's remarks came a day after a Shanghai official reportedly said the novel coronavirus could be passed through aerosol transmission.

“Aerosol transmission refers to the mixing of the virus with droplets in the air to form aerosols, which causes infection after inhalation, according to medical experts,” China Daily reported Zeng Qun, deputy head of the Shanghai Civil Affairs Bureau, as saying.

Zeng had said that confirmed transmission routes of the coronavirus include direct transmission, contact transmission and aerosol transmission, the report added.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/wuhan-virus-coronavirus-aerosol-transmission-moh-124184


-------------------------------------------

It would be the height of irresponsible, even criminal behavior, to spread fear mongering misinformation. But here it appears to have been done by a senior Chinese official in Shanghai. This guy should be immediately silenced if he is doing something not officially sanctioned.

A senior Chinese official has said the virus can infect people via airborne transmission, but an Australian expert says more evidence is needed.

According to a report in local news site China Daily, the deputy head of the Shanghai Civil Affairs Bureau, Zeng Qun, revealed the potentially troubling development over the weekend at a media briefing concerning government efforts to contain the virus’ spread.

Mr Qun said transmission routes of the coronavirus included direct transmission, contact transmission and aerosol transmission.

‘Aerosol transmission refers to the mixing of the virus with droplets in the air to form aerosols, which causes infection after inhalation, according to medical experts,’ he said.

‘As such, we have called on the public to raise their awareness of the prevention and control of the disease caused by family gatherings.’

While Associate Professor Ian Mackay, a virologist at the Australian Infectious Diseases Research Centre, told newsGP he would not be surprised if coronavirus could be transmitted by an airborne route, he said there is ‘zero public-reviewed experimental evidence’ to support the claim.

‘That evidence would need to show that infectious virus in suitable quantities to start an infection in a susceptible host, is present in the airborne gel-like “droplet nuclei” captured from the air,’ he said.

‘At the moment this is just a pronouncement without supporting evidence. We have to be careful because we have seen numerous false starts and wild claims around this virus, which have all lacked any evidence, quality expert review, or slow and careful consideration before publication or any expertise associated with their original analysis.’

Meanwhile, doctors in New South Wales have reportedly made a ‘research breakthrough’, according to the state’s Health Minister Brad Hazzard. Minister Hazzard said extensive testing on an isolated patient at Westmead Hospital has allowed scientists to isolate the virus and study eight variants, producing two full genome sequences in the process.
etc.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/claims-coronavirus-can-spread-through-the-air

 

[baldgye]

I've got a meeting tomorrow very close to the latest outbreak

Coronavirus: Brighton GP practice closes after staff member tests positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51447761

 

[UKMikey]

It would be the height of irresponsible, even criminal behavior, to spread fear mongering misinformation.

And yet, this sounds like exactly what you're doing.

This guy should be immediately silenced if he is doing something not officially sanctioned.

Or perhaps he should be disregarded until there is sufficiient evidence to support his findings as per your follow up Australian article.

‘At the moment this is just a pronouncement without supporting evidence. We have to be careful because we have seen numerous false starts and wild claims around this virus, which have all lacked any evidence, quality expert review, or slow and careful consideration before publication or any expertise associated with their original analysis.’

To me the thrust of this article couldn't be more clear. A little less Chicken Little, a little more evidence-based reporting would appear to be in order right now.

I've got a meeting tomorrow very close to the latest outbreak

Then I guess if anyone is infected at your meeting we may find out whether aerosol transmission is really a thing or whether @Dotini's cherrypicked gainsayer is dangerously mistaken.

 

[Dotini]

And yet, this sounds like exactly what you're doing.

Or perhaps he should be disregarded until there is sufficiient evidence to support his findings as per your follow up Australian article.



To me the thrust of this article couldn't be more clear. A little less Chicken Little, a little more evidence-based reporting would appear to be in order right now.


Then I guess if anyone is infected at your meeting we may find out whether aerosol transmission is really a thing or whether @Dotini's cherrypicked gainsayer is dangerously mistaken.

You're the one who posted an article with the term aerosol transmission in it.

Very little is openly published about aerosol transmission; but I don't think it necessarily applies in a closed office setting with participants in close contact (i.e., within 2 meters for 10 minutes) for droplet transmission to take place. If aerosol transmission takes place, I think it means you could be farther away than 2 meters for less than 10 minutes and infection still occurs.

 

[UKMikey]

You're the one who posted an article with the term aerosol transmission in it.

What did it say about aerosol transmission? That there was no evidence it was happening. Correct, or not?

 

[Dotini]

What did it say about aerosol transmission? That there was no evidence it was happening. Correct, or not?

Maybe coronavirus transmits by aerosol or maybe it does not. This is a serious risk.

Kyodo News has published "at least one of every two instances of human to human transmission of the new coronavirus is believed to occur while the first patient is not yet showing symptoms according to an estimate by a group of Japanese university professors." This means no coughs, no fever, no sneezes, no mucous or droplets. This is critical information that needs to be addressed. The R0 factor must be less than 1 for the epidemic to be stopped before burning through the population. That's why people without symptoms must be isolated and isolating the sick won't work. According to an AFP article, 40 professionally masked and suited staff in one Wuhan hospital were infected by patients. Infection can occur from contact with an infected surface. I think SARS, measles and H5N1 have been spread in part through aerosols. Fog machines of all sizes and descriptions are currently filling the air in deserted streets with something - presumably water/bleach mix - in Wuhan. The virus can survive on surfaces like doorknobs, seats and armrests for 5 days, at least.

Zeng Qun, the deputy head of the Shanghai Civil Affairs Bureau, told a press briefing on Saturday that the virus can be spread via direct transmission, which involves contact with the infected person. However, the China Daily newspaper reported Zeng also suggested the new member of the large coronavirus family—which includes infections like the common cold as well as SARS—is capable of aerosol transmission.

https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-could-airborne-chinese-official-claims-1486493

 

[UKMikey]

Maybe coronavirus transmits by aerosol or maybe it does not. This is a serious risk.

That doesn't really answer my question. In fact it outright ignores it.

What did [the article I posted] say about aerosol transmission? That there was no evidence it was happening. Correct, or not?

Meanwhile in the evidence-based world it looks like current advice on the gov.uk website is still at "contact the NHS if you develop any symptoms" so it doesn't look like they're impounding all returnees or implementing mandatory quarantines for outwardly healthy people yet.

The airports I visited are using infrared detectors to spot people with a higher than normal body temperature on the way in.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

An adult webcam site is offering free sessions to passengers quarantined on two cruise ships.

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news...ed-tokens-from-adult-site-camsoda/4700794002/

 

[Dotini]

China has changed the definition of infection.
Controversial, but perhaps understandable.

China changes counting scheme to lower Wuhan virus numbers
China stops counting confirmed asymptomatic patients in Wuhan virus statistics

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — The daily reports of Wuhan virus infections in China will likely begin to drop as the government has decided to stop counting patients who test positive for the disease but do not exhibit symptoms as "confirmed cases."

according to a report by Kyodo News, researchers at Hokkaido University have found that 50 percent of cases of human-to-human transmission occurs when an infected person is not yet exhibiting symptoms.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3874490

-------------------------------

After days of panic buying, order is restored to Singapore food supply.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...of-essential-food-and-household-items-masagos

----------------------------------

"This Isn't Really Happening"

Conditions deteriorate on the Diamond Princess, quarantined at Yokohama, with 135 (of 3700) passengers, and now crew, infected with nCoV.

https://time.com/5781727/diamond-princess-coronavirus-cruise-ship-quarantine/

 

[kikie]

Gabriel Leung from Hongkong predicts that 60% of the world population can become infected and about 1% could die.

 

[Dotini]

Gabriel Leung from Hongkong predicts that 60% of the world population can become infected and about 1% could die.

Over what time period?