COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Touring Mars]

Spain are introducing drastic measures to avert a "major second wave" by ordering bars and nightclubs to close by 1am.

Now... that's not quite as useless as it sounds... Spanish nightlife is a bit different to ours insomuch as it is normal to go out at or after 10pm, so a 1am curfew in Spain is a bit like having an 8 or 9pm curfew in the UK or US. That said, the parts of Spain that make the most money from tourists will be hit by this, since they are not exactly typical of 'Spanish culture', and hence why a 1am curfew strikes me as a tad ridiculous. Maybe a better idea would be to stick with a 1am curfew but to ban UK tourists.

 

[Joey D]

I too would like to know this, except I think I may have had it in February.

I've done some research and made a couple of calls this morning. It looks easy enough to get.

I'm not sure where you are in Oaklahoma, but LabCorp does have labs there and they charge $42 + $10 for a physician to place the order for the antibody test if it's not covered by insurance. I did some digging though and it looks like many plans do cover it with a copay. You should be able to make an appointment online.

Some doctors will be able to place the order as well and you can do a walk-in lab at whatever health system you go to. Your state might offer something too depending on what measures they're taking. However, it looks like in some areas tests are in limited supply. It looks like a simple blood test and takes a few days to get results.

 

[gregc]

One question I do have, has anyone had an antibody test? I'm convinced I had COVID back in January and want to get tested, but I'm not sure what's involved with it. I do know if you have the antibodies you can donate blood to help with researching treatments and whatnot. If I have the antibodies, I want to be able to help.

Not sure how helpful this will be as I'm the UK, but my employer (who has been outstanding through this whole thing) purchased enough antibody tests for every employee and I had one a couple of weeks ago. The test I had involved a drop of blood onto a small plastic doodad along with some kind of reagent. The doodad has a liquid filled cylinder (like a really short thermometer) - after a minute or two a line appears to confirm it's a valid test. You then wait 20 minutes or so, if you have antibodies another line will appear in one of two positions on the 'thermometer' - if you get a line, you have antibodies for that variant. If you get two lines, you have antibodies for both variants.

The information I was given is that a false negative is possible (I think about 30% or so), false positive highly unlikely. I tested negative (we're calling it "failed the antibody test"...). I know three colleagues came back positive out of about 15 or so I've spoken to - one had had no symptoms, one had it quite bad, and his positive result showed up almost immediately - he's also enrolled on a blood plasma donation scheme, and apparently still has very high antibody levels even though he had it back in March. The third has been off with symptoms twice, and sure enough got a double positive on his test.

TL;DR - the antibody test I had was essentially painless, and comes back with a result in 20 minutes or less.

This is what the test I had looks like - C is the control line to confirm a valid test, the other two are the "positive" lines:

 

[Daz555]

I can understand why. Because we've been so lucky to not have any confirmed community transmission for 100 days....

It's not luck.

 

[Nismonath5]

Auckland's lockdown has been extended for 12 days, while the rest of the country remains on alert.

Not surprised, but still. This is definitely gonna meddle with some of my entrepreneurial plans I was laying foundations for.

 

[Joey D]

I found this to be a really interesting study:

COVID-19–Related Infodemic and Its Impact on Public Health: A Global Social Media Analysis

The gist of the findings was that misinformation spreads incredibly quickly and is killing people. I know this isn't exactly shocking, but it's nice to see an academic study, even if it's a fast-tracked one about it. Also, infodemic is a cool word.

 

[Outspacer]

I found this to be a really interesting study:

COVID-19–Related Infodemic and Its Impact on Public Health: A Global Social Media Analysis

The gist of the findings was that misinformation spreads incredibly quickly and is killing people. I know this isn't exactly shocking, but it's nice to see an academic study, even if it's a fast-tracked one about it. Also, infodemic is a cool word.

Interesting, but a bit disappointing that it didn't attempt to quantify either the prevalence of the (mis?) infodemic, nor the actually harmful effects (since pointlessly holding your breath for >10 seconds isn't harmful in itself, to pick an example at one extreme). Considering it's a situation where billions of people are wanting information it seems to me that horror stories related to misinformation are thankfully very rare.

The most widespread harms, I think, are panic buying (selfishness rather than misinformation) and those special people who protest masks etc (who as we've seen seek out whatever appears to bolster their point of view, and quite often the source is not misinformation, just selectively quoted).

 

[TenEightyOne]

even if it's a fast-tracked one

Sometimes publications will do this if they consider the work to be of immediate importance, this looks like one of those cases. Fascinating paper!

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Spain are introducing drastic measures to avert a "major second wave" by ordering bars and nightclubs to close by 1am.

Now... that's not quite as useless as it sounds... Spanish nightlife is a bit different to ours insomuch as it is normal to go out at or after 10pm, so a 1am curfew in Spain is a bit like having an 8 or 9pm curfew in the UK or US. That said, the parts of Spain that make the most money from tourists will be hit by this, since they are not exactly typical of 'Spanish culture', and hence why a 1am curfew strikes me as a tad ridiculous. Maybe a better idea would be to stick with a 1am curfew but to ban UK tourists.

Denmark made.the night clubs close at two but last let in at 11.

 

[Joey D]

This is more of a history lesson than anything, but I found it to be a pretty fascinating read:

Emerging Pandemic Diseases: How We Got To COVID-19

It was co-authored by Dr. Morens and Dr. Fauci too, so despite being a pre-print, I think it's safe to say the information in it is pretty credible.

Here's the abstract if you're not keen on reading a rather lengthy paper.

Infectious diseases prevalent in humans and animals are caused by pathogens that once emerged from other animal hosts. In addition to these established infections, new infectious diseases periodically emerge. In extreme cases they may cause pandemics such as COVID-19; in other cases, dead end infections or smaller epidemics result. Established diseases may also re-emerge, for example by extending geographically or by becoming more transmissible or more pathogenic. Disease emergence reflects dynamic balances and imbalances, within complex globally-distributed ecosystems comprised of humans, animals, pathogens, and the environment. Understanding these variables is a necessary step in controlling future devastating disease emergencies.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Well Arizona recorded no deaths on Monday. (last Monday? Not sure) Sign of progress? Who knows. Haven't kept up much on the current situation.

 

[Danoff]

Well Arizona recorded no deaths on Monday. (last Monday? Not sure) Sign of progress? Who knows. Haven't kept up much on the current situation.

Here you go

============================================================

I attended a school orientation for at an elementary school held outdoors with signs everywhere saying masks required. The teachers were unmasked and stood in a hula hoop on the ground while people, sitting in the grass, listening to their orientation were sitting well back from the teacher's position. One person asked a question. The teacher walked out of the hula hoop toward the person so that she could hear, and the person asking the question pulled her mask down to talk to the unmasked teacher. My facial expression at this display was hidden behind a mask.

Meanwhile, the kids started out with masks on, but many parents just let their kids pull masks off and run around. Certainly it wasn't most kids, but probably about 10%.

This morning my younger kids daycare was celebrating... nothing important... and offering free coffee to parents. The coffee stand was just outside the door, with a masked person serving it up. This created a blockade of people who stood around chatting at the door, forcing people and kids entering and exiting to squeeze past. Everyone was masked (although I'm sure that got adjusted by more than one person to take a sip), but this still strikes me as completely tone deaf. There is a pandemic, maybe don't offer free coffee this year. Don't get me started on the number of lemonade stands I've seen in people's yards this year.

More and more I'm just faced with the notion that people simply do not know what to do with themselves, or how to assess the risk of various activities, and are simply unwilling to do so. How do you stand in front of a busy door way with open coffee in your hand creating a jam of people... now... are you unaware of what's happening?

I was watching a video (taken last weekend) of someone doing a walkthrough of a rental property. The person taking the video was unmasked inside the unit (guests had just left). The cleaning person was cleaning house for new guests... unmasked. What is the point of cleaning the place if random agent and cleaning person are breathing all over it during a pandemic. "I cleaned the kitchen, changed the bed linens, and took out the trash... spewing moisture all over it as I went".

 

[DesertPenguin]

I would be livid. I would grab my child as fast as I could and get out of there.

 

[Danoff]

I would be livid. I would grab my child as fast as I could and get out of there.

Which one, the orientation or the daycare?

My kid and I were masked, and distanced far away from the people demonstrating idiotic behavior. The kids running around were mostly keeping to themselves (or at least away from us), and we were outside. I wasn't concerned about myself or my child infected in that setting. As for the plans for the school year, their baseline plan is better than what was done at this orientation.

My point wasn't that I was concerned about myself in either setting so much as I was watching behavior that was totally unnecessary risk that people were bringing on themselves. And it wasn't just a beach party, these are each settings where attempts are being made to tightly control behavior, and are failing, at least to an extent.

 

[Joey D]

I think the big problem is that no matter where you go some percentage of the people are just dicks.

 

[Danoff]

I think the big problem is that no matter where you go some percentage of the people are just dicks.

No doubt that's true. But I think some of this is just a complete lack of self awareness - or perhaps an over estimation of their ability to assess the situation. The parent who pulled their mask down to ask the question was probably thinking "this is safe, I'm fine". And the teacher walking toward them was probably thinking "I'm fine, and they don't seem sick". Some of these people are just trusting their gut. And their gut is wrong.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I've been saying this so many times in the last 6 months.

Better. Safe. Than. Sorry.

We just don't know right now and without a proper highly accessible vaccine everything is a risk. Once we have a readily available vaccine it will be relatively fine.

 

[Famine]

Two "fun" facts:

* COVID-19 is now the third biggest killer in the USA, behind only heart disease and cancer.
* If COVID-19 was plane crash fatalities, to date the USA has seen an average of three fully loaded 747s crashing every day since the first official death on February 29, which would account for just under one-third of all 747s ever built over the last 51 years. The deadliest single day was equivalent to almost eight total loss crashes.

 

[Danoff]

I've been saying this so many times in the last 6 months.

Better. Safe. Than. Sorry.

We just don't know right now and without a proper highly accessible vaccine everything is a risk. Once we have a readily available vaccine it will be relatively fine.

I don't think we can play that game. I appreciate your position here, but I don't think that "everything is a risk" is a sustainable way forward. It's true, everything is a risk, and not just from COVID. But we have to find a balance. I want to keep my job, I want to pay my bills and teach my kids to swim and ride bikes and how to read. I don't think we can completely hold out for a vaccine.

The harder thing to do is to learn how to be careful while doing what needs to be done.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Everything is a risk, it's just where on the spectrum of intensity that risk falls. Most things are heading towards the less risky side of things but it's still all a risk none-the-less.

I don't want to hold out for a vaccine either, but we can take solace in the fact that when it's out things will be that much closer to normal.

And like you've said, we can be sure we are being safe but can't speak for the idiots around us.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Here you go

View attachment 950409

Oh, looks like we're doing better then. Hadn't noticed.

 

[McLaren]

Breaking News: Countries are only beating Covid to show Trump up.

You see what's going on in New Zealand? They beat it they beat, it was like front page [news] they beat it because they wanted to show me something. The problem is [there is a] big surge in New Zealand, you know it's terrible - we don't want that. This is an invisible enemy, that should have never been let to come to this country, to Europe to the rest of the world by China, just remember it.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says Donald Trump's claim New Zealand is experiencing a "surge" in Covid-19 cases is "patently wrong".

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357535&post

 

[Tornado]

Trump calling out Michelle Obama for saying less people had died of COVID under his watch than the actual number is an... Uh... Interesting strategy.

 

[x3ra]

Refreshing.

And for @Scaff, ref: his response to my last post, who thinks for anything to be correct it needs to be peer-reviewed. I wonder if anything peer-reviewed has ever been wrong, or whether something not peer-reviewed has been correct? I suspect there are more than one example of both.

https://nbakay.wordpress.com/2018/1...ity-as-studies-show-they-are-rigged-or-false/

 

[Danoff]

Refreshing.

Listened to it up until they started talking about experimental treatments for people to hang their hopes on. You're allowing some decent arguments (about lockdowns) to bolster arguments which are not decent (about conspiracies, masks, and the general risk posed by the pandemic). You're doing that because you're subjecting yourself to misinformation like the stuff you just posted. The statistics that he drums up are heavily biased to try to make you think something which is not actually supported by statistics. The video leads (intentionally) with some reasonable arguments about lockdowns and moves swiftly into totally unsubstantiated claims. This is done because it's designed to trick you into thinking that the whole thing is supported with a similar amount of rational or evidence-based underpinning. The video is a bait and switch.

I've said it to you at least twice now, but I'll say it again. If you don't like lockdowns, wear a mask. You're the guy who argues incessantly (and with no success) in favor of not wearing masks. You should take exactly the opposite position if you don't like lockdowns. Lockdowns end up in place because people think the whole thing is a conspiracy and not a big deal and refuse to wear masks.

If you hate lockdowns, stop posting crap like that video.

 

[Joey D]

I wonder if anything peer-reviewed has ever been wrong, or whether something not peer-reviewed has been correct? I suspect there are more than one example of both.

I mean sure, peer-reviewed studies can certainly be wrong. However, the likelihood of them being wrong is lower than non-peer-reviewed studies or whatever your Uncle Rick posts on Facebook to own the libs.

 

[x3ra]

@Danoff The two are not mutually exclusive.

This was also in the NY Times , but it's pay-walled and this one isn't https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...fter-mild-infections/articleshow/77605288.cms

 

[Danoff]

@Danoff The two are not mutually exclusive.

What's not mutually exclusive? Masks and lockdowns?

If everyone listened to you and stopped wearing a mask, a lockdown would then be imposed. That's regardless of whether you think it's a good idea.

 

[FPV MIC]

The statistics that he drums up are heavily biased to try to make you think something which is not actually supported by statistics. The video leads (intentionally) with some reasonable arguments about lockdowns and moves swiftly into totally unsubstantiated claims. This is done because it's designed to trick you into thinking that the whole thing is supported with a similar amount of rational or evidence-based underpinning. The video is a bait and switch.

Heavily biased is putting it mildly. He's mentioned the stats for every state and territory where early lockdowns have worked and (deliberately) left out Victoria which as well as being completely mismanaged started to reopen, in many peoples opinion, far too early as they never had community transmission under control. The one case in SA was a returned traveller in hotel quarantine and all seven cases in NSW had known links.


@x3ra He's a well known shock jock, so this is just what he's paid to do... cause controversy.

His facts don't look as good when you add in the other 663 hospitalisations from Victoria.... and this after the new lockdowns have started to take affect. They had been getting up to triple the cases per day before the lockdown started to work. All twenty five new deaths were also from Victoria.

 

[Touring Mars]

It's quite simple @Danoff... for some people, it's solely about not letting anyone tell them what to do - even when it is for their own (and everyone else's) benefit.

There is a paradox at play here though... the more we may wish for life to return to something like normal, the more abnormal things we have to do to make that even a possibility.

A harsh reckoning awaits those places and communities that are unwilling to adapt.

I'm glad to say that the people of Scotland, by and large, have made a considerable amount of effort to adapt - and, paradoxically, things are starting to feel a bit more like normal.

Unfortunately, however, there are still quite a lot of people who aren't getting the message - and it is these people who are risking plunging the entire country back into what is nothing like normal - and for what? Because they object to wearing a mask for a few minutes in a shop or on a train??

It's so incredibly selfish and self-defeating.