COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

  • Thread starter baldgye
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Outspacer
Hopefully, but the US is locally manufacturing huge amounts of vaccine, while Aus isn't at all.
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We've got plenty of AZ here because we've been making it since earlier this year but unfortunately people have been cancelling their appointments in droves in favour of waiting for the Pfizer shot.

Global Newsroom | CSL

www.csl.com www.csl.com

The older eligible ones that are holding out need to harden the **** up and just get the AZ done for the good of everyone, and then get a booster Pfizer shot to cover off the Beta (South African) variant sometime next year when hopefully most of the younger people are fully vaccinated.

The false sense of security, media misinformation and political BS here will be our undoing I fear 😢
 
FPV MIC
We've got plenty of AZ here because we've been making it since earlier this year but unfortunately people have been cancelling their appointments in droves in favour of waiting for the Pfizer shot.

Global Newsroom | CSL

www.csl.com www.csl.com

The older eligible ones that are holding out need to harden the **** up and just get the AZ done for the good of everyone, and then get a booster Pfizer shot to cover off the Beta (South African) variant sometime next year when hopefully most of the younger people are fully vaccinated.

The false sense of security, media misinformation and political BS here will be our undoing I fear 😢
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Hmm, OK, I hadn't heard of that. But it would take that one company nearly a year to produce enough doses for the adult population even if they get up to expected speed (and disregarding that AZ isn't likely to be used for younger people). So not sure I'd call it plenty compared to the US being basically awash with the stuff! Of course it's a travesty that what is there isn't being used, when we know it gives useful protection against Alpha and Delta.

Hopefully this outbreak will be a wakeup call to the hold-outs.
 
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Outspacer
Hmm, OK, I hadn't heard of that. But it would take that one company nearly a year to produce enough doses for the adult population even if they get up to expected speed (and disregarding that AZ isn't likely to be used for younger people). So not sure I'd call it plenty compared to the US being basically awash with the stuff! Of course it's a travesty that what is there isn't being used, when we know it gives useful protection against Alpha and Delta.

Hopefully this outbreak will be a wakeup call to the hold-outs.
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In comparison to the US's total amount no, we're not even close, but we definitely do have an over abundance of AZ (which was the only vaccine I was referring to). Enough that it's been opened up to anyone at all that wants it regardless of age (and regardless of the health advice to only give it to over 60's... as long as you sign the appropriate form). If it weren't for the overly hard sell for AZ at the moment our home grown production should be struggling to keep up but unfortunately that's not the case.

It's our Pfizer program that's fallen way behind and the government saying it's okay for over 60's to wait for Pfizer has just compounded that issue.

Anecdotal evidence of the lack of interest in the AZ vaccine but when I went in for my second AZ shot I arrived half an hour early, was out ten minutes before my appointment time and only one other person was in the 15 minute waiting area while I was there. It was that quiet.... and I live in an area with a very ageing population. My wife on the other hand has to wait months just for her first Pfizer shot.
 
Touring Mars
I think I've said this before, but I really can't understand why countries like Australia and NZ, who have done outstandingly well in controlling the pandemic thus far, haven't taken the window of opportunity they've created for themselves (at some considerable effort by the public) to vaccinate people much more quickly. I know it's not quite as simple as that, but the consequences are pretty obvious...
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That would be due to inept politicians back slapping each other about how we virtually eliminated Covid.

Putting all our eggs into the AZ basket also hasn't helped, as people have now shunned it and are waiting on the Pfizer shots due to what could only be called fear mongering by the media and opposition political parties. At the start the political positions were pretty much put aside and everyone worked well together but not so much now.

What really ***** me is the message that's it's easy to get a shot and get out there and get it done according to the politicians.
Let's use me as a case study for that.

Age 47 male with zero health issues.
From the start of the vaccine rollout.
AZ not available due to my age and no health issues.
I get a flu shot just prior to the available Pzfier vaccine being made available to my age group meaning I have to wait two weeks to get a Pzfier shot.
In those two weeks Pfizer is exhausted as nobody want the AZ so back to waiting again.

Fast forward a couple of months and low and behold AZ is now fine for any age group so I check availability. The online booking system is a shambles so wait another week. I finally can check and the nearest available spot is around 250km away.
Fast forward another week or so and I can probably now this weekend book in somewhere and get the AZ.

So right now I want to have been vaccinated but the amount of hurdles in the way as been crazy.

"Just go get your shot it's easy they say"
**** off it would be if it weren't for inept politicians like you.
 
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Sorry to hear that @Shaun - frankly I've been amazed at how well organised we have been, given the otherwise shambolic handling of the whole pandemic, but hey... so long as Australia keeps a lid on infections, however, then you should not be any worse off than we are (or even close to it). And although the UK is a shambles, we're still far better off than a lot of places, but we are closer to the margins than a lot of people (and seemingly the entire British government) think we are.
 
Another reason to get vaccinated...

... as the new wave of infections engulfs the country, more and more healthcare workers are having to self-isolate and reducing the capacity of hospitals. The Scottish government have been warned that they have just "days" to act to prevent the NHS in Scotland from being overwhelmed, not just due to rising COVID hospitalisations, but to staff absence. In the last 24 hours, 3 Scottish hospitals have declared that they are at capacity already, in spite of the fact that restrictions aren't due to be lifted for a few weeks yet.

What this means is that the self-isolation rules will probably get scrapped, which means the virus will now spread like wildfire. Now is definitely not a good time to be unvaccinated in the UK.
 
Touring Mars
Another reason to get vaccinated...

... as the new wave of infections engulfs the country, more and more healthcare workers are having to self-isolate and reducing the capacity of hospitals. The Scottish government have been warned that they have just "days" to act to prevent the NHS in Scotland from being overwhelmed, not just due to rising COVID hospitalisations, but to staff absence. In the last 24 hours, 3 Scottish hospitals have declared that they are at capacity already, in spite of the fact that restrictions aren't due to be lifted for a few weeks yet.

What this means is that the self-isolation rules will probably get scrapped, which means the virus will now spread like wildfire. Now is definitely not a good time to be unvaccinated in the UK.
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Yeah the way the UK government has decided to open up is concerning for me.
Most of my family is still in the UK and a cousin spent 4.5 months with the first two weeks on life support in a Glasgow hospital with Covid. At the time there was a bit of a lull in cases so the hospital's weren't at capacity.

Hopefully for the country it doesn't get there and the rate of vaccinated people helps keep the severe cases down.
 
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Danoff
I prefer inept to corrupt.
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Sadly in the US we have corrupt politicians who are also inept. Just imagine if our politicians were mostly competent and not insanely corrupt. We'd probably be near the middle of the list regarding COVID cases/deaths instead of at the top.

If the world has better people in charge, we probably wouldn't have had a pandemic to begin with and it would've ended up being an epidemic contained to China.
 
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FPV MIC
In comparison to the US's total amount no, we're not even close, but we definitely do have an over abundance of AZ (which was the only vaccine I was referring to). Enough that it's been opened up to anyone at all that wants it regardless of age (and regardless of the health advice to only give it to over 60's... as long as you sign the appropriate form). If it weren't for the overly hard sell for AZ at the moment our home grown production should be struggling to keep up but unfortunately that's not the case.

It's our Pfizer program that's fallen way behind and the government saying it's okay for over 60's to wait for Pfizer has just compounded that issue.

Anecdotal evidence of the lack of interest in the AZ vaccine but when I went in for my second AZ shot I arrived half an hour early, was out ten minutes before my appointment time and only one other person was in the 15 minute waiting area while I was there. It was that quiet.... and I live in an area with a very ageing population. My wife on the other hand has to wait months just for her first Pfizer shot.
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Well that's just a great combo isn't it, over-60s told they can wait and under-60s scared off by having to fill out a form :(

Even if the amount of AZ produced so far would only do, say, all over 65s it would help immensely. Looking back at our rollout though, it took a long time to reach the "all over 50s, health care workers, and vulnerable people" milestone. But partly that's because we've had amazingly high acceptance of the vaccines, which it looks like hardly anywhere else is matching.
 
So my persistence of checking the online booking system has paid off. Some Pfizer doses have become available next Tuesday to Friday at my local vaccination centre.

Booked in for Friday at 1:30, may as well make a long weekend out of it.
 
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MatskiMonk
Whilst I personally couldn't give two ****'s about the place, and am angered that motorsport events that are more naturally distanced are still severely limited whilst Silverstone fills its grandstands, I was told last year by someone that works there, that they could only stand it last year thanks to (then) recent funding, and two years would wipe them out. I have no doubt (and to be fair, also no proof) that behind the scenes they were leveraging this fact hard with the government. Apparently MSV are fairly well funded, but we can only be thankful the likes of Thruxton, Knockhill and Croft are managing despite loosing out on their biggest ticket revenues last year.
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Silverstone was lucky enough to have the British Grand Prix become a test venue for the "Events Research Programme" along with about 20 other events. The first one was the FA Cup Final in April and the final one is Grange Opera Festival in Northington in late July.
 
Shaun
the way the UK government has decided to open up is concerning for me.
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How do you think Australia will ever 'open up'?

Vaccinations don't give 100% protection from transmission or from serious illness or death.... yes, deaths remain low in the UK, but we've already lost c.80,000 of the most susceptible within our population.

Unless someone finds a vaccine that's 100% effective, at some stage Australians are going to have to accept a lot of cases, hospitalisations and deaths as a consequence of returning to normality.

It will take a big attitude shift to move to that from complete suppression.
 
As has been said already, opening up is not the problem per se, the problem is how many hospitalisations deaths, long-term or even permanent disability etc. will those cases translate into.

The UK's approach is not entirely wrong - indeed, it is mostly right in principle... it's just the execution and timing that is being botched. Lockdown the country to deeply suppress (or even eliminate) cases, vaccinate your population then re-open - that's what countries need to do.

Australia have done the first bit, but haven't done the second bit... so re-opening remains out of the question for them.

The US and UK have done the second bit, but still not enough to avoid major problems upon re-opening. Another 6-8 weeks of vaccinations and restrictions (tougher than what we have now) would be highly advisable IMHO.

The UK is currently seeing a drop in the case to hospitalisation ratio of around 2/3rds... and a huge drop in deaths per case. That is excellent and very welcome... but it isn't enough.

We also need to suppress infections for a host of other important reasons, even not considering how many hospitalisations they may result in, but preferably without lockdowns. That means light-touch measures like mask mandates, free and readily available testing, track and trace etc. and, of course, a continued fast rollout and high uptake of the vaccines.

Australia and anywhere else that has struggled to rollout the vaccine(s) have a long road ahead, unfortunately - but, they have done a great job thus far and just need to get their act together better on their vaccine rollout. The UK had more new cases yesterday than Australia has ever had. Through their suppression strategy, they bought themselves time to get vaccinations done, but alas it looks like they may have largely squandered that time, but I'd argue they're still in a far better position than us.
 
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Stotty
How do you think Australia will ever 'open up'?
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After a much higher uptake of the vaccine than is current. At least give everyone who wants it the opportunity to do so before a free for all open up.

As @Touring Mars had mentioned we done the hard bit and shouldn't be in the position we are, we bought the time to get vaccinated but due to our inept government we haven't and now it's going to take long than it should.

Nobody is under the illusion that people aren't going to get sick or die. We should be in as good as position as could be at the moment but we aren't and that's what is really pissing people off.
However just throwing the doors open is only asking for more trouble, the way I see it a more gradual opening with a high uptake of vaccines is the way to go.

Nobody likes it and I certainly don't but sometimes you just have to take one for the team.
 
Touring Mars
As has been said already, opening up is not the problem per se, the problem is how many hospitalisations deaths, long-term or even permanent disability etc. will those cases translate into.

The UK's approach is not entirely wrong - indeed, it is mostly right in principle... it's just the execution and timing that is being botched. Lockdown the country to deeply suppress (or even eliminate) cases, vaccinate your population then re-open - that's what countries need to do.

Australia have done the first bit, but haven't done the second bit... so re-opening remains out of the question for them.

The US and UK have done the second bit, but still not enough to avoid major problems upon re-opening. Another 6-8 weeks of vaccinations and restrictions (tougher than what we have now) would be highly advisable IMHO.

The UK is currently seeing a drop in the case to hospitalisation ratio of around 2/3rds... and a huge drop in deaths per case. That is excellent and very welcome... but it isn't enough.

We also need to suppress infections for a host of other important reasons, even not considering how many hospitalisations they may result in, but preferably without lockdowns. That means light-touch measures like mask mandates, free and readily available testing, track and trace etc. and, of course, a continued fast rollout and high uptake of the vaccines.

Australia and anywhere else that has struggled to rollout the vaccine(s) have a long road ahead, unfortunately - but, they have done a great job thus far and just need to get their act together better on their vaccine rollout. The UK had more new cases yesterday than Australia has ever had. Through their suppression strategy, they bought themselves time to get vaccinations done, but alas it looks like they may have largely squandered that time, but I'd argue they're still in a far better position than us.
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The question wasn't about the UK strategy, it was how does Australia get to any semblance of normality from their current strategy of 'one case of covid is unacceptable' (zero covid).

Even at, say, 95% of the population vaccinated (extremely unlikely), the current vaccines won't allow a zero death transition... Australia will have a lot of vulnerable people who were killed in the 1st/2nd/3rd waves in other countries. As soon as they open the borders, or stop locking down at 1 case, they will get a surge in cases, which will lead to deaths... perhaps less people will die compared to say, the UK, but it won't be zero.

How do the Australian government go from 'one case is one case too many' to 'deaths are acceptable/inevitable'? It's not a progressive change in strategy.

Same applies to New Zealand (who's vaccination situation is even worse). Are they going to isolate themselves from the rest of the World indefinitely?

I read an article that said New Zealand want 97% of the population vaccinated before they can risk reopening the borders.
 
Stotty
How do the Australian government go from 'one case is one case too many' to 'deaths are acceptable/inevitable'?
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They will have to sooner or later.

The best any country can hope for is to vaccinate their people and then re-open in order to minimise the impact of the virus.

It will, however, feel different for countries that have succeeded in suppressing cases and deaths thus far, but it is unavoidable in the long term.

I think what we will see over the next 12 months is a series of waves in different countries, ranging from quite bad but just about managable (highly vaccinated countries e.g. US and UK), to very bad (India, Brazil, developing world) and requiring repeated lockdowns that will risk severely damaging their economies, to totally catastrophic (countries that aren't vaccinated and can't/won't lockdown - which has already happened to some extent in several places already).

Australia and NZ still have a good chance of staying among the least badly affected countries in the world, provided they get their act together on vaccines - and assuming that the global vaccine supply chain doesn't collapse entirely.
 
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Stotty
The question wasn't about the UK strategy, it was how does Australia get to any semblance of normality from their current strategy of 'one case of covid is unacceptable' (zero covid).

Even at, say, 95% of the population vaccinated (extremely unlikely), the current vaccines won't allow a zero death transition... Australia will have a lot of vulnerable people who were killed in the 1st/2nd/3rd waves in other countries. As soon as they open the borders, or stop locking down at 1 case, they will get a surge in cases, which will lead to deaths... perhaps less people will die compared to say, the UK, but it won't be zero.

How do the Australian government go from 'one case is one case too many' to 'deaths are acceptable/inevitable'? It's not a progressive change in strategy.

Same applies to New Zealand (who's vaccination situation is even worse). Are they going to isolate themselves from the rest of the World indefinitely?

I read an article that said New Zealand want 97% of the population vaccinated before they can risk reopening the borders.
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About a week ago our government laid out their plans for this. The National Cabinet has agreed on a four step plan. The article below can explain it far better than I can.

www.abc.net.au

How Australia will ditch lockdowns and open borders as vaccination rates rise

National Cabinet has set a four-step path back to normal, but we won't get there unless we all get vaccinated.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

We really should be at phase 2 already though, and would've had a far better chance of hitting that mark if our government hadn't put most of our eggs in the AZ basket.
 
The goal, as Prime Minister Scott Morrison said, is for Australia to begin treating COVID-19 "like the flu".
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56D406A2-2F72-495D-B85A-270E6E4D7D19.png
 
Touring Mars
View attachment 1066378
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Yeah, it's an odd thing to say but in his defence he means in phase 3 when everyone that wants the vaccine has had it.


I'll add what he meant for those special snowflakes that won't read the article but will jump on the ""just like the flu'' part (not directed at you @Touring Mars).

Phase 3: 'No more lockdowns'​

This is the stage where Mr Morrison says Australia will begin treating COVID-19 more like seasonal flu.

"And that means no more lockdowns," he said.

Potential measures in phase 3 include:

  • No lockdowns
  • Vaccine booster program underway
  • Exempting vaccinated people from all domestic restrictions
  • Abolishing caps on returning overseas travellers
  • Allowing vaccinated people to leave the country
  • Widening travel bubbles to more regions
 
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This is pretty much understandable, but I still balk when I hear expressions like "like the flu" because there's a tacit assumption that SARS-CoV-2 will ever be 'just like the flu' (as if that's a good thing!) when it quite possibly will be nothing like it.

There's multiple things wrong with this. 'The flu" is not a single viral strain either... I've seen expressions like 'common flu' everywhere. In reality, influenza is a disease caused by multiple variants of a virus that is continually changing and thus poses a different level of threat almost every year, killing hundreds of thousands of people in a normal year, and yet not posing a substantial threat to younger/healthier people. But flu vaccines are available to everyone, and even unvaccinated people stand very little chance of becoming critically ill if they are infected. SARS-CoV-2 also disproportionately affects older and less healthy people, but it is FAR more dangerous to all age groups than the usual strains of influenza viruses, even to vaccinated people, but especially to those who are unvaccinated... but that's not to discount the possibility of new flu strains being just as bad as SARS-CoV-2. My point is that SARS-CoV-2 and all its variants are bad, period... and thus comparisons to less dangerous viral strains are very unhelpful.

As such, I think it is a bad idea to push the idea that SARS-CoV-2 is "like the flu" because comparisons are worthless. What they really mean is "We're going to have to find a way to deal with it, because like the flu, we are never going to get rid of it, even if it is a lot more dangerous"... but, funnily enough, politicians tend not to say stuff like that.
 
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This was not the news I wanted to be hit with at the end of the day:

www.cnn.com

Pfizer says it's time for a Covid booster; FDA and CDC say not so fast | CNN

Pfizer says it is seeing waning immunity from its coronavirus vaccine and says it is picking up its efforts to develop a booster dose that will protect people from variants.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

I have no idea how we're going to convince people to get a third dose of the vaccine, let alone how we're going to do it logistically. I mean, job security I guess...so hooray?

I always knew boosters were going to happen, but we were anticipating them to be available around October/November, not August. I think many organizations were thinking the same thing too and that they'd just run their COVID booster shot with the annual flu shot, but looks like that's not going to happen. Hopefully, kids are still a priority too since opening it up to 6-12 months and up would do some good.
 
How much is a booster really necessary? I thought the CDC Director came out recently stating those who are fully vaccinated are still protected from the Delta variant, which to my understanding, is currently posing the most threat to a resurgence in cases?
 
McLaren
How much is a booster really necessary? I thought the CDC Director came out recently stating those who are fully vaccinated are still protected from the Delta variant, which to my understanding, is currently posing the most threat to a resurgence in cases?
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It's hard to say because from my brief understanding it sounds like Pfizer is basing the whole thing off of a single set of data from Israel that says immunity goes from about 90% to 64%. While I'm sure the Israeli data is good, it only represents a very small percentage of somewhat genetically similar people.

I think a booster is needed eventually, but this seems pretty early and is going to pose a huge challenge for countries like the US. I mean we're not even at the year mark yet from when people outside the testing cohort received their first dose. However, since so many people are unwilling to get vaccinated, maybe the best strategy is to continue to boost the immunity of those who are willing to be vaccinated.

I haven't seen anything from Moderna either. It'll be interesting to see what their plan is going forward. If it's just the Pfizer one that requires three doses that's really going to make for a good old cluster.
 

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