Crash Damage will change the game dynamic

[WonkyFonk]

Hello everyone,

I was having a think about the potential for a damage model and realised that the whole GT5P game dynamic would have to be re-developed if it were introduced.

At the moment we have a fight from the back to the front in 3-5 laps setup. With this you inevitably have a panel rubbing session and a few nudges trying to get to the front. But also, to win these races you do have to be at least 2-3 seconds per lap faster than the 1st place car.

If they add a damage model this game dynamic would not work anymore as your car would get a bit wrecked in the race, which would be quite frustrating for most. And this would be due to the frantic 'must pass now cause I only have 2 laps left' attitude that the game works off. 'A big bunch of missions' as I read on here a few days ago.

The obvious thing is to introduce qualifying, and maybe extend the race length to allow for some proper racing. But with this the AI will need to be drastically improved, both in driving line and race craft. Eg how many times have you been whacked from behind braking into fuji turn 1? Also with the current model of the AI being so slow, if they kept this the races would be so boring. The racing needs to be realistic, tough, fair and maybe only two or three passes in a race

Anyway, let me know your thoughts.

 

[patriotzero]

I don't think there will be damage modeling,Its so complicated and hard to develop for GT..Everyone waiting for realistic damage.This pressure cant enough to develop real Crash damage.

 

[JDMKING13]

Honestly i dont care if the car itself gets damaged, but i still want damage. I remember in Forza2 they had this diagram of your car which showed what parts of your car was damaged. So if you hit your front bumper the diagram would show a specific color depending on how bad the damage was, and a percentage of the damage you caused. If GT5 has that and add the problems you would encounter with your car i would be happy. I dont need to see parts flying around and all that good stuff, just have some type of damage.

 

[AutoAki]

If damage modelling comes, I would like to see that you also need to fix your car after race with your Credits... that could calm down some racers, cause they might loose more credits at one race, than earn.

Also if you would not fix your car, it stays in that shape in your garage also... so in the end, rammers would only have garage full of crashed cars and zero credits. In that point you needed to sell all your crashed cars with very low prize to car-scrap-yard, and buy some new one, and start like beginning.

Damage only should effect realisticly to that car who cause accident, and much less to 'victim'. Before that, they ofcourse need to fix judging-system, that biggest damages goes to right address.

 

[WonkyFonk]

My point is more to do with the game events rather than the online play. I agree that you should have to pay to fix your car, which would deter bashing online though.

I think the game needs to be created to make proper racing possible, rather than the mission style, pass 16 cars in 3 laps. The AI has to be toned down for this model to work.

Even if they dont introduce a damage model, id rather have realistic racing where you can only gain a couple of places in a race rather than blitzing the field. Thinking about where to pass, observing the car in fronts driving, then making a move is what racing is all about. And its what separates arcade from sim, which is what PD claim the game to be.

The consequence of a damage model, whether it be cosmetic, physics affecting or both would mean PD would have to reconsider the racing model IMO.

 

[JDMKING13]

If damage modelling comes, I would like to see that you also need to fix your car after race with your Credits... that could calm down some racers, cause they might loose more credits at one race, than earn.

Also if you would not fix your car, it stays in that shape in your garage also... so in the end, rammers would only have garage full of crashed cars and zero credits. In that point you needed to sell all your crashed cars with very low prize to car-scrap-yard, and buy some new one, and start like beginning.
.

I like this ideal! To take it further you should be able to damage your car in any mode also. EX say your in time trial mode with your car trying to set a lap record, if you damage your car in the process it should count againts you. I know you could just quit but then you would loose your lap so it all works out.

 

[Exorcet]

Damage will be fine. I've seen a lot of patient racers online. Even without damage, I avoid contact at all costs. I don't even drive through ghost cars if I can help it.

The race length is more of a PD not letting players create events issue.

 

[Ardius]

As I've said in the other thread in the GT5 forum, I'm not bothered about damage being in the game, at least not visual damage anyway.

I would love to see mechanical damage implemented properly though and some more in depth tuning and engineering in the game. Its not something that requires a massive re-structuring of the game though, just a simple option when you start races whether you want damage on and making only the expert events offline force damage on you.

Both F1:CE and Ferrari Challenge handled this well enough. Just make damage a changeable option and hey presto anyone can play the game at whatever difficulty they want. Once we have private rooms/lobbies, these will solve the problem of online damage frustration too.

 

[JDMKING13]

as i've said in the other thread in the gt5 forum, i'm not bothered about damage being in the game, at least not visual damage anyway.

I would love to see mechanical damage implemented properly though and some more in depth tuning and engineering in the game. Its not something that requires a massive re-structuring of the game though, just a simple option when you start races whether you want damage on and making only the expert events offline force damage on you.

Both f1:ce and ferrari challenge handled this well enough. Just make damage a changeable option and hey presto anyone can play the game at whatever difficulty they want. Once we have private rooms/lobbies, these will solve the problem of online damage frustration too.

+1

 

[premhz]

+1

Pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one:tup:

 

[Hun200kmh]

I think the thread starter isn't talking about online at all. And I agree with him. If damage is implemented in a way that makes damage costly (to a race result, to your credits account), than the "career" mode, license tests and missions included, will need some changing.

But, if that happens, it will be good. Perhaps the "real driving simulator" finally approaches, in its 5th version, also the concept of "real racing simulator" ... even in offline mode.

 

[nk4e]

I will feel bad for the Drifters then.

 

[WonkyFonk]

I think the thread starter isn't talking about online at all. And I agree with him. If damage is implemented in a way that makes damage costly (to a race result, to your credits account), than the "career" mode, license tests and missions included, will need some changing.

But, if that happens, it will be good. Perhaps the "real driving simulator" finally approaches, in its 5th version, also the concept of "real racing simulator" ... even in offline mode.

Yep, thanks, I was talking about offline mode

 

[Sniffs]

there will be a really god thing about Crash Damage...it'll get rid of the Punters that a lot of people do nothing but complain about. the only complication I see is that even a nick will cost you all of your mod cash reserves. some of us would be perpetually stuck in a cheap, untuned base car because every little tap will clean your credits out!

 

[Ghost_drift]

I think the thread starter isn't talking about online at all. And I agree with him. If damage is implemented in a way that makes damage costly (to a race result, to your credits account), than the "career" mode, license tests and missions included, will need some changing.

But, if that happens, it will be good. Perhaps the "real driving simulator" finally approaches, in its 5th version, also the concept of "real racing simulator" ... even in offline mode.

Maybe PD will bring in Insurance premiums. cheaper insurance for no claims bonus.

Maybe we could go on are parents insurance as a named driver to save some Credits. lol

 

[Catawba Warrior]

I agree with most of what's been said.

Since I started with GT3, one of my main complaints with the series is the racing. It's not really racing at all, it's 3 hot laps with rolling obstacles and 1-2 cars that actually have a chance at winning. IMO this system promotes racing no-no's such as "leaning" on the outside car in a turn, cutting corners, and things of that nature. When's the last time you saw a driver pass 15 cars in one lap in a race? (Nascar excluded) Name the last real 3 lap race you watched. 5? It's not racing, maybe that's why they call them "events".

Let me take you to Daytona. It's the 3rd lap before you post your first time at speed. Qualifying is 3 laps. I know the topic is basically about offline, but online is here and must be addressed. I see Daytona as a good example. 2-3-5 laps are not a race. A proper race at this track should be no less than 10 laps, imo. Tire wear is needed along with damage. The way it is now, it's hard to pass someone on the straights without them trying to take you out. If you try to slow down and take the turns properly, a powerslider will either pass you or take you out. If one guy gets ahead of the slower cars that start at the front, two cars can run him down, but only if they work together and I've found few who'd rather try to catch first than race for 2nd. Speaking of slower cars, the field in a superspeedway race should be made up of similar cars. Save the class racing for the road courses where slower cars are easier to get by without causing a major wreck. It's hard enough when some drivers brake and some don't in the same car, but when you put 3-4 different cars all running the track in different ways at 170-200+, it's a recipe for disaster. Even out the fields and eliminate this, make it about the driver. Add tire wear and damage to make it about the driver who can take care of his car. Add more laps and it becomes about the driver who can take care of his car while running consistently good laps. Then we'll have a "race" instead of a green-white-checkers bashfest. If this is a "driving simulator", I want to see the videos of the real guys who powerslide their vettes through the turns at Daytona at 180mph and pick up speed off the turns.

Yes, the game dynamics should be changed, I agree.

 

[lmracer]

If damage does become introduced into the game, competitive racers who are successful will have more realistic lap times because they will be more cautious drivers. Remember Jeremy Clarkson in the segment of his show where he drove an NSX around Leguna Seca, and in real life to see which was faster? The digital lap was seconds faster than the real one. I would not mind the challange of keeping my car in one piece if I want to have a chance at winning a long race.

 

[greenlightning]

Damage if implemented half way decent. Which you better belive that if it is included it will be more than half way decent otherwise I am sure if would of been implemented before. Should make the game a lot more realistic when it comes to contact with others and or tire barriers etc. Cars should not simply be imovable objects that barely bounce off of each other. If they do include damage will the surroundings also take damage? The track should but would be restored to normal after every race. Car parts left on the track for at least one lap maybe more depending length of track. Mechanical damage mainly tires and drive train should be implemented to the greastest extent possible. Even now with normal GT tire wear a lot of online drivers who are going flat out every lap are going to have red trashed tires just after 5 laps (using GT4 as bases). Will truly expect damage to be limited to only race modified or race cars only. That is perfectly fine for me. Lots of unknows to come hopefully trully great and amazing unknowns.

 

[TiZzla]

Thats exactly how real life racing is!

If you start in the top 10 you may not get damage but if you are coming from the rear of the grid you WILL get a bit of damage.

Kaz has said so much about damage already i will be pretty annoyed if it doesent happen.

Rubbing is racing.

 

[JDMKING13]

If damage does become introduced into the game, competitive racers who are successful will have more realistic lap times because they will be more cautious drivers. Remember Jeremy Clarkson in the segment of his show where he drove an NSX around Leguna Seca, and in real life to see which was faster? The digital lap was seconds faster than the real one. I would not mind the challange of keeping my car in one piece if I want to have a chance at winning a long race.

👍 Nice!

 

[TiZzla]

If damage does become introduced into the game, competitive racers who are successful will have more realistic lap times because they will be more cautious drivers. Remember Jeremy Clarkson in the segment of his show where he drove an NSX around Leguna Seca, and in real life to see which was faster? The digital lap was seconds faster than the real one. I would not mind the challange of keeping my car in one piece if I want to have a chance at winning a long race.

yea its so true, for example on the daytona road course, through the "bus stop" - if i go as fast as i can its a 50/50 chance if i will make it out the other side because i have no fear of crashing and i push the car until its only half in my control.

In real life i would never go that fast.

 

[Asylum]

I don't think there will be damage modeling,Its so complicated and hard to develop for GT..Everyone waiting for realistic damage.This pressure cant enough to develop real Crash damage.

BULL look at some of the ghetto cheap games like grid and some of the other games like that. There crash damage is 10 FOLD over gt and its pathetic on how slow pd is to implement anything. Gt has been around ALOT longer than these other games thus gt should be setting the bar higher than everyone else.


Personally i LOVE gt its just a shame that there coders are so ignorant and slow to get features that lesser games have. Lets hope that pd can consult some coders / programers that actually have some talent to get this damage in order.



For all the years and years they have been coding the gt series and trying to call it a simulator you would think they would get there act strait......


Anyhow i dont have much faith with the coders of gt but i will say that atleast they have progressed on 2 things since gt1 #1 better graphics and #2 more tracks and car selections... because nothing else has improved enough to think WOW these guys really steped there game up.

 

[Ghost_drift]

BULL look at some of the ghetto cheap games like grid and some of the other games like that. There crash damage is 10 FOLD over gt and its pathetic on how slow pd is to implement anything. Gt has been around ALOT longer than these other games thus gt should be setting the bar higher than everyone else.


Personally i LOVE gt its just a shame that there coders are so ignorant and slow to get features that lesser games have. Lets hope that pd can consult some coders / programers that actually have some talent to get this damage in order.



For all the years and years they have been coding the gt series and trying to call it a simulator you would think they would get there act strait......


Anyhow i dont have much faith with the coders of gt but i will say that atleast they have progressed on 2 things since gt1 #1 better graphics and #2 more tracks and car selections... because nothing else has improved enough to think WOW these guys really steped there game up.

👎

The reason for PD not having damage is not because they dont have the skill as you so put it, But due to the fact that Kaz wants everything realistic. Their are loads of threads exsplaining WHY PD dont have damage yet, and it basicaly boils down to PD not being to do what they want with the damage due to cirtain companeys.

And to say that PD's coders dont have any talent is just going to get you shot down faster than a clay pigeon. SO good luck to ya, as I think every one in the forum is just about to explode onto you.

 

[JDMKING13]

👎

The reason for pd not having damage is not because they dont have the skill as you so put it, but due to the fact that kaz wants everything realistic. Their are loads of threads exsplaining why pd dont have damage yet, and it basicaly boils down to pd not being to do what they want with the damage due to cirtain companeys.

And to say that pd's coders dont have any talent is just going to get you shot down faster than a clay pigeon. So good luck to ya, as i think every one in the forum is just about to explode onto you.

+1

 

[Asylum]

👎

The reason for PD not having damage is not because they dont have the skill as you so put it, But due to the fact that Kaz wants everything realistic. Their are loads of threads exsplaining WHY PD dont have damage yet, and it basicaly boils down to PD not being to do what they want with the damage due to cirtain companeys.

And to say that PD's coders dont have any talent is just going to get you shot down faster than a clay pigeon. SO good luck to ya, as I think every one in the forum is just about to explode onto you.

To be honest i dont care what anyone on this board has to say about my comment, thats the beauty of a fourm everyone can voice there opinion some may not agree but thats life right.


Pd was not able to do physical damage due to some of the manufacters not allowing it as i understand but that does not mean they can not implement physics damage.. FOR instance suspension damage motor damage clutch damage ect.

This is why i say that the coders are behind the times.


so you all can +1 this guy above me's comment but look at the facts and you all will see what i mean. Facts are facts there is always a way around something

 

[Ghost_drift]

To be honest i dont care what anyone on this board has to say about my comment, thats the beauty of a fourm everyone can voice there opinion some may not agree but thats life right.


Pd was not able to do physical damage due to some of the manufacters not allowing it as i understand but that does not mean they can not implement physics damage.. FOR instance suspension damage motor damage clutch damage ect.

This is why i say that the coders are behind the times.


so you all can +1 this guy above me's comment but look at the facts and you all will see what i mean. Facts are facts there is always a way around something

Damage IS damage. Just the same as companeys dont want visual damage shown on there cars also goes for Mechanical damage. You realy think Ferrari would let PD make that the suspension on there 200,000 pound cars break or go wrong, after some harsh use?

 

[zed300]

Manufacturers are the soul of GT, if they pull out due to whichever reason, then the game loses the edge over other games.
If the user can't drive his/her prefered car, because the brand choses not to take part, as they didn't want their cars to be seen with blown engines,wheels bobbling around with broken suspension,smoke pouring out from gearboxes/diffs,severe brake fade. These are just a few of possible reasons that manufacturers may stipulate as voiding an exsisting contract or starting one with GT,other than panel damage.(I have no idea for sure)
This "may" be the reason we have not seen damage of any kind so far.If they can reproduce the cars and environment with such realism, I think they are capable of reproducing damage on any level.
I really feel it is a bunch of red tape that is stopping them, as I am sure they want to implement damage, as this WILL take the game to "The Real Driving Simulator".

To respond to the thread title , the game play relating to AI will have to change to allow for damage.The current format would almost certainly make winning a race from the back of the pack impossible, for the average user.

 

[Asylum]

Damage IS damage. Just the same as companeys dont want visual damage shown on there cars also goes for Mechanical damage. You realy think Ferrari would let PD make that the suspension on there 200,000 pound cars break or go wrong, after some harsh use?

^^ HAHA sigh. Some people just dont understand simple logic. Lets just hope the coders at pd think alittle more out side the box than you do.

SOME of the car companies say they did not want damage BUT PD can get around that if there is no damage SEEN BY YOUR EYE. Its people like you that dont think outside the box and most likely say your glass is half empty correct? Now lets say that the car rear ended a vehicle well insted of having damage that can be seen by your eye, the car that recived front end damage they can make the toe messed up so the car will swerve to one side ect. That will not be against the car companies request due to NO DAMAGE THAT IS SEEN BY YOUR EYE they have NO right to tell pd how to make the physics of the car handle.

Lets face it if the car companies had a say in how the physics of the car handling was then MOST of the car companies would already be complaining how there car handles.


Also if the car companies had as much pull as you thought they had then ALOT of them would not be complaining about some bent fenders as much as how HORRIBLE the cars sound in the game compaired to real life, As they did not take load into effect and how that plays out on the change of the exhaust note.

So there is always a way to argue the facts with the companies that have issues with the damage rules and PD always will have a way to get around there requests with out having them pull there cars from the game.

 

[Ghost_drift]

Car companies have every right to say. If PD upset a car manufacturer by making their cars bad in the game, then the car manufacturer has every right to pull there cars out.

Saying that rear ending a car is hardly thinking out side of the box. most of us want damage including me. But Car manufacturers are very fussy. And like I said and Zed said. Anything that will effect the cars looks or handeling is down to the discretion of the car manufacturers.

And PD's dream for realistic damage ist going to be a change in wheel alighnment if they rear end enougher car. Kaz has said that Damage will only be put in the game if he can do it realisticaly. And A car pulling to the right after rear ending a enougher car is hardly realistic outcome of a rear end shunt.

So please do tell me when you start to write down this simple logic you speak of.

 

[Japspecvr6]

Boy I wonder when we do get damage what will you guys have to complain about......GT is one of the poster childs of Sony. Believe me this game will spand the life of the PS3, And will continue to coin us with content to provide the best gaming experience. Lets just make sure they everything we want and then we can nitpick it......