CSR-Elite - VERY coggy feel

mykem
However, the T500RS unlike the CSR-E/CSW is a much simpler design. No worm drive and dual motor system and of course, all (well, mostly) plastic construction.
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What worm drive are you referring to? Are you talking about the bump stop that is visible through the top of the wheel? The black piece that says "Fanatec" on it serves as nothing more than a bump stop for the wheel rotation extents. The wheel is driven by a belt system.

Edit: I guess it's not really the "bump stop" per say, it is however used to limit the wheel's rotational extents.
 
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the fact that people must learn to accept is that these motors were never designed to be used in a force feedback environment - in other words to be put in a constant state of stall.
i too have gone through the trouble of having to locate and replace a burned out motor.
in my tests i have peformed i have seen these motors run way above the temperature limits that they were designed to accept.
to put it simply the rs-555ph series motors were for use in inkjet printers which would require that the motor be able to spin in both directions at a fairly high r.p.m. and a very small load.
now take this same motor and use it in a wheel and force it to run under almost a constant stall rate - the result would be much higher temps than acceptable and eventually the carbon brushes will weld them selves to the armature posts.
when we set the force feedback setting high and hold the wheel from turning we are forcing the motor to be in a state of stall - something that the motor is not designed to do.
so if we expect to keep these motors running well we need to reduce the ffb settings in order for them to survive.
here is a link to the motors intended use.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/news/n2000_0410.html
 
novadave
the fact that people must learn to accept is that these motors were never designed to be used in a force feedback environment - in other words to be put in a constant state of stall.
i too have gone through the trouble of having to locate and replace a burned out motor.
in my tests i have peformed i have seen these motors run way above the temperature limits that they were designed to accept.
to put it simply the rs-555ph series motors were for use in inkjet printers which would require that the motor be able to spin in both directions at a fairly high r.p.m. and a very small load.
now take this same motor and use it in a wheel and force it to run under almost a constant stall rate - the result would be much higher temps than acceptable and eventually the carbon brushes will weld them selves to the armature posts.
when we set the force feedback setting high and hold the wheel from turning we are forcing the motor to be in a state of stall - something that the motor is not designed to do.
so if we expect to keep these motors running well we need to reduce the ffb settings in order for them to survive.
here is a link to the motors intended use.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/news/n2000_0410.html
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Darn. Well ok, I'll have to adjust my driving style to it I guess. I'm sure I'd get used to less FFB, but seriously; The wheel alone cost $530 US. With the pedals and stand, I'm in for over $800. It should have better quality - my Logitech DFGT I paid $100 for brand new, and it still works 100% a-ok, and THAT thing has seen a beating, multiple race parties on the weekends with friends who had no idea what they were doing, and beating on the wheel when they lost. Again.

We'll see. I love the pedals. Heck, I love the wheel. Not okay with a 5 month lifespan though. Lets hope the replacement model has addressed some of these concerns.

On a similar note - how hard would it be to just swap the motors out with something better? I'm guessing very or impossible, as I'm assuming the firmware was calibrated just for these motors and their output but... if you can keep the controller, and get a quality motor with similar specs, how hard? Just throwing it out there because I'm curious - I wish there was another game in town for Xbox (Logitech, Thrustmaster, you listening?) but for now I'll just have hope the next wheel does better than the first.

Anyone know of a high end wheel I can look at that works on the 360? And no I don't mean the G27 and the convertor thingy.

EDIT: ps, novadave, what range of ffb did you find that kept the motors within tolerances? I mentioned I run mine at 100, so 70 is totally doable. 20 is not. Thanks.
 
if the csw uses the same motor as my pwts(mabuchi rs 550) if i remember correctly those mabuchi motors were originally for printers and they have been discontinued for a fair while now by the mabuchi, i found this out when trying to source a replacement for my bust one.

its odd why they would use the same motor in their latest flagship as the one in the very old pwts
 
you can have high ffb but you must keep the thing cool, i run my pwts with the case off and a stand fan blowing cold air on it, i dont mind because i tend to get hot whilst driving. with the fan off and half hours play the heatsink around the motor can burn you it gets so hot, you also lose ffb when it gets that hot
 
Fanatec states to customers having issues that they should run their CSR-Elite wheels at 80% FFB. (or they did)

I made this for a friend to keep his PWTS cool since it would often just simply shut down the FFB mid race... He never has an issue now:

FantatecCooler2.jpg


It straps right to the top of the wheel case, nothing needs to be taken apart. It has a temp sensor that reads the air temp inside the wheel and adjusts the fan speed based on this.

I'm posting that simply to show the lengths some will go to in order to overcome some of these problems. ;)
 
BLACK86
if the csw uses the same motor as my pwts(mabuchi rs 550) if i remember correctly those mabuchi motors were originally for printers and they have been discontinued for a fair while now by the mabuchi, i found this out when trying to source a replacement for my bust one.

its odd why they would use the same motor in their latest flagship as the one in the very old pwts
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It's more than just for printers. If you look at Mabuchi's website there's a list of the different motors it produces and the typical application for each of the motors: http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/product/p_0305.html.

mrbasher
What worm drive are you referring to? Are you talking about the bump stop that is visible through the top of the wheel? The black piece that says "Fanatec" on it serves as nothing more than a bump stop for the wheel rotation extents. The wheel is driven by a belt system.

Edit: I guess it's not really the "bump stop" per say, it is however used to limit the wheel's rotational extents.
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You're right it's not a worm drive mechanism- it only looks like one. But may point still remains that the CSRE and CSW is mechanically more complex than the T500RS.

I was quite take aback by the price of the Buehler motor in the T500RS (although I'm sure Thrustmaster pays a much lower price than retail). It's a brute of a motor and it shows in how the T500RS actually measures. Techade from ISI (rFactor) forum compare the G27 to the T500RS:

TechAde
I just rigged up a contraption to measure the torque of the G27 and T500RS...

G27 0.68kg * 0.45m = 3.0Nm
T500RS 1.38kg * 0.45m = 6.0Nm

Quite pleased as I've been telling people the T500RS feels about twice as powerful as the G27. :)
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mrbasher
Fanatec states to customers having issues that they should run their CSR-Elite wheels at 80% FFB. (or they did)

I made this for a friend to keep his PWTS cool since it would often just simply shut down the FFB mid race... He never has an issue now:

FantatecCooler2.jpg


It straps right to the top of the wheel case, nothing needs to be taken apart. It has a temp sensor that reads the air temp inside the wheel and adjusts the fan speed based on this.

I'm posting that simply to show the lengths some will go to in order to overcome some of these problems. ;)
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Was actually thinking something right along those lines (minus the temp gauge), but I've got a couple of case fans laying around, so yeah. I might. Or I might just burn it out again because... It should just work.
 
mykem
It's more than just for printers. If you look at Mabuchi's website there's a list of the different motors it produces and the typical application for each of the motors: http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/product/p_0305.html.
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its not, the motor in the pwts is a rs555ph its just for printers, the link you showed does not have the rs555ph on it, the link novadave shown does.

ive just checked my dead pwts motor and it says rs555ph on it, i said earlier it was a rs550, i got this model number of the many reviews on google of the pwts, im pretty sure it was on the fanatec site too in the description when it was live.

i guess we need someone with a csw to maybe read the side of one of the motors to see if they are the same
 
Just a final update; got my wheel today and I believe the firmware has been updated - it feels a tiny bit different (not worse, just different) and the initial calibration when powered up is much, much slower. Also seems to be a bit quieter?

Hopefully firmware updates are all thats needed - quite honestly, if the wheel lasts me two years, I'll be happy with it, its awesome when its working, and good on Fanatec for making the turnaround time in about 10 days (didn't have to send my wheel in first, always a plus).

So tonight, beers and racing me thinks.

Cheers.
 
Wait a sec... You were sent a new wheel and it feels coggy? They should not cog AT ALL, EVER. Turning the wheel against resistance should provide smooth resistance as you turn it with no bumpy/cog feelings. Is that still happening or is it smooth?
 
mrbasher
Wait a sec... You were sent a new wheel and it feels coggy? They should not cog AT ALL, EVER. Turning the wheel against resistance should provide smooth resistance as you turn it with no bumpy/cog feelings. Is that still happening or is it smooth?
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No - that issue is resolved, just feels a tad different than my original wheel before it failed - but; and you'll love this - after switching over to see what GT5 felt like from Forza 4 last night, the pedals stopped working.

Not sure if that's hardware failure, or I just confused the wheel? But it no longer works (pedals, that is) on my PS3 or Xbox 360 - I'll do some troubleshooting on the PC later on but... sheesh. Almost $800 for this?
 
Oh good. :)

As for the pedals... Not sure which ones you are using, but make sure you aren't using that little 8 inch or so cable that has a PS2 on one end and RJ12 on the other. It's junk. If you're using it, switch to one of the other cables.
 
Yes, motor is burnt. Never leave the CSRE alone and powered up. I did this and returned 20 min later to the smell of burning plastic and the exact symptoms you describe.

The good news: Fanatec customer service rocks these days. Just explain the problem and you should get a new wheel within a few days. I still keep a backup G25 just in case. That thing never breaks.
 
Well more bad news; hopefully this can be fixed though - so the wheel after a few minutes of driving now loses the alignment; that is the wheel is turned 5-10' to the right when going completely straight - power cycle and reconnect the wheel, and everything is back to normal, but only for another 3-5 minutes of driving.

I tried loading the 737 firmware on the wheel, and that didn't do a thing to fix it. Do I need to contact Fanatec yet again for yet another replacement, or is this something I can fix/correct?
 
Carson, its not worth the hassel. Unfortunately for Forza 4 - this is all you have. Period. The Microsoft wheel is a JOKE, logitech makes nothing that works with the 360, nor does Thrustmaster at the same quality level as the R500 anyway so I'm fairly screwed.

It sucks for a couple of reasons - if the wheel was crap, I'd just move on and be done with it. Reliability, it obviously does suck. But when it works... its so immersive and tactile, its almost worth the RMA's. Almost.
 
Mate I've already sold my T500RS and just hope that I'm lucky and don't have any problems as I'm placing an order this week. Really only want it for Forza, your right it is the only real choice. I really miss the T500 and hope I don't regret this change as it's not the only Fanatec product plan on ordering. Hope your problems are resolved by Fanatec. Can't you reset the wheel centre manually?
 
I can, and it stays centered for about 3-5 minutes, depending on the course and the amount of wheel shuffling - then, its off center by 10' or more until I power cycle the wheel - so not really usable, especially since the shifters are off center as well.
 
thechosenwonton have you tried the latest FW version 750B? Just curious. Might be worth a try if you have not.
 
It's not firmware. The belt is slipping and losing calibration. Tech support will confirm this and suggest RMA. Don't waste your time.
 
II-zOoLoGy-II
It's not firmware. The belt is slipping and losing calibration. Tech support will confirm this and suggest RMA. Don't waste your time.
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Belt slip does not cause this problem. The belts slip on all CSR E/ CSW wheels and if that caused it everybody would have this issue. The problem is with the optical sensor/sensor wheel. I had this issue with my first CSR E.

RMA and get a replacement as there is nothing the home user can do to fix this.
 
II-zOoLoGy-II
It's not firmware. The belt is slipping and losing calibration. Tech support will confirm this and suggest RMA. Don't waste your time.
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Fanatec has the WORST customer service ever. They will help you after you send them half a dozen emails. Then if they don't fix it right, they will just ignore you.

Here's an email from Darin Gangi after asking him for advice when Fanatec started ignoring my requests for help.


-----
Sorry Joseph. This is one of the many reasons I'm no longer with Fanatec. There's really nothing I can do to help except tell you to post your problem in our public forums, and hopefully they'll see.. or.. Go to THomas's blog at 911wheel.de

Hope that helps

Darin Gangi
Inside Sim Racing
 
rasheed
Fanatec has the WORST customer service ever. They will help you after you send them half a dozen emails. Then if they don't fix it right, they will just ignore you......
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Sorry i just can't agree with you on that one :)

I've had my share of bad luck with the Fanatec products, but they are responding quick and efficient.

Two weeks ago i reported a problem with my CSR Elite, with video, invoice & serialnr on Monday morning. Within 2 hours i received a reply that my wheel needed replacement. My new wheel arrived Friday in that same week.
Like the times before my shippingcosts will be refunded after i send my defect wheel back.
 
I'm curious what problem you had HoiHman? I keep finding stories of Elite's not working out of the box and then the same with the replacement! faulty sensors bad centring etc. All of which is causing me quite a bit of concern. As I've mentioned I've sold my T500 and have planned to place an order for £1400 worth of Fanatec toys this week, so these issues are making me nervous lol especially the DOA and reports of bad customer service
 
thehawk05
Belt slip does not cause this problem. The belts slip on all CSR E/ CSW wheels and if that caused it everybody would have this issue. The problem is with the optical sensor/sensor wheel. I had this issue with my first CSR E.

RMA and get a replacement as there is nothing the home user can do to fix this.
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Ah I see thank you for the clarification.

@rasheed

Fanatec's customer service isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I have dealt with them through many RMA'S and Johanne (sp?) has even helped me with basic trouble shooting on multiple occasions.

It is unfortunate that you have had a bad experience, but it is simply possible your emails got marked as junk, were believed to be duplicates.... or a whole other slew of possibilities that doesn't equate to them ignoring you. I have seen a ton of complaints but it has never carried over into my experience of the company.

Now, their QA department and the general build quality of their products.... That's a whole other mess.... from my personal experience.
 
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Not opening a new post for this. 3rd wheel failed, I'm done with Fanatec forever. 3 wheels didn't even make it a YEAR. Not bothering making a support claim, just done.
 
thechosenwonton
Not opening a new post for this. 3rd wheel failed, I'm done with Fanatec forever. 3 wheels didn't even make it a YEAR. Not bothering making a support claim, just done.
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I can understand you being frustrated or even done with fanatec products, but not sending it in for repair doesnt even make sense. At least get it repaired and sell it to recoup some of your money. You could easily get $300 for it and probably a bit more.
 

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