Daniel Ricciardo to Leave Red Bull for 2019, Joins Renault Sport

[PocketZeven]

It is going to be an interesting 2019 season nonetheless. Wouldnt it be great if we have 4 teams battling for the championship? Hopefully both renault and honda can fill that gap. Renault, RB, Mercedes, Ferrari all have top drivers now who have won multiple GP's.

Edit: Heck it would be even better if Mclaren also makes a giant leap because of those hypothetical improvements to those Renault Engines.

 

[adb]

I will be shocked if Hulk gets podium before Dan

 

[EngieDiesel]

Not too terribly surprising, to be honest. RBR made it obvious that they feel Max is the future of their team, and I'm sure Ricciardo knows that means whoever's in the second car is going to be pushed into the background no matter how good they are. Plus, this also averts causing a Hamilton v. Rosberg style atmosphere at RBR, which would only hurt his career even more over the long term.

Better to be the big fish in a small pond than a dead fish in a poisoned lake, or something like that.

Not sure about Ferrari, but Mercedes announced Bottas for 2019 the week of Hungary. So that was one out.

Popular rumor was that Ferrari was going to bring in LeClerc to replace Kimi next year, but with Sergio Marchionne's passing it seems likely they won't make any changes now. Either way, that avenue was pretty much blocked off as well.

Other question is who Red Bull replaces him with. Safe bet would be a Toro Rosso guy because both drivers will have had a year with the Honda power plant under their belts. Then I would guess Gasly based on his performance.

Wouldn't surprise me. There's also been talk here and there about Honda wanting to bring in one of their own drivers from Japan soonish, and promoting someone from Toro Rosso to the vacant RBR seat would play right into that.

 

[JockeP22]

I bet the editors of F1 Racing are regretting their choice of the
August issue cover as it now looks pretty goofy and funny in light of the recent days
news about Ricciardo and 2019.

 

[Carbonox]

Both Hamilton and Vettel didn't want Ricciardo and with Hamilton staying on the Mercedes door shut too.

Why would Hamilton and Vettel be allowed to have a say for who joins them? Are they that scared of possibly being made to look bad?

 

[TheElbows]

That's an exceptionally common clause in a contract for a top tier driver. They get a say, or occasionally veto power in the team's decision on the second driver.

This change will at least introduce some movement in the driver line-up, something I always like to see. Sadly I was expecting Ocon to end up at Renault with Stroll going to Force India (if that happens). I hope Ocon doesn't end up in a garbage car like a Williams or McLaren.

I like Ricciardo. He seems like a genuinely good dude and can put in a solid consistent drive when required. I don't know that he's Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso level. A lot of people presented the situation that he could easily go to a Ferrari or Mercedes, but I never really saw that. I'm curious how much of this is Ricciardo's decision and how much of it is other factors behind the scenes. Verstappen will be happy I'd think.

 

[PocketZeven]

That's an exceptionally common clause in a contract for a top tier driver. They get a say, or occasionally veto power in the team's decision on the second driver.

Thats too bad though. The rivalry in F1 makes a season. The teammate rivalry between Senna and prost, Rosberg and Hamilton, Webber and Vettel just makes exciting television. Conflict and drama is what probably gives F1 its best ratings.

 

[potvinsuks]

Yes, Brendon has more experience than Gasly as a whole Driver.When you drive and win LeMans you do the whole F1calender in 24 h. That's pretty amazing isn't it. By the way this aren't my words it's what Mark Webber says about LeMans and as you hopefully know he drove Le Mans and F1.

It is amazing but, I think he meant that the total accumulated distance is similar to 1 LeMans race to a season in F1.
Meaning, Webber was probably just making note of just how grueling the 24rs of LeMans is.

I really like Hartley as well and am pulling for him and truly hope he has a ride for next season. However, there's no denying Gasly is not only better right now, but he's a phenom on the rise.

Just look at what he's doing with that car week in and out. P6 entering Q3 and such.

Sorry, but it's not even close, although I hope Hartley continues in F1, because I get a feeling he just needs to get a full year of F1 under him.

It's funny how you say it's because of experience he should be the guy.

I may be wrong but, I think in F1 it's wide eyed 18 year olds with horse blinds on, who know nothing but only open wheel cars that may be the more advantageous method.

 

[DonZmeuheu]

It is amazing but, I think he meant that the total accumulated distance is similar to 1 LeMans race to a season in F1.
Meaning, Webber was probably just making note of just how grueling the 24rs of LeMans is.

I really like Hartley as well and am pulling for him and truly hope he has a ride for next season. However, there's no denying Gasly is not only better right now, but he's a phenom on the rise.

Just look at what he's doing with that car week in and out. P6 entering Q3 and such.

Sorry, but it's not even close, although I hope Hartley continues in F1, because I get a feeling he just needs to get a full year of F1 under him.

It's funny how you say it's because of experience he should be the guy.

I may be wrong but, I think in F1 it's wide eyed 18 year olds with horse blinds on, who know nothing but only open wheel cars that may be the more advantageous method.

I totally understand your opinion and I must say your totally right. Like I wrote in my first post I think also that Gasly will be signed by RB. Yes when your young and hungry like Gasly who most only driven open wheeler cars then you can achieve a lot in F1 look at Max but the experience and winning of the 24 h of LeMans is an achievement which makes a driver more complete.

 

[andrea]

Ricciardo can smile all he wants in front of the cameras, the guy was frustrated getting outqualified by Verstappen and then Austria tow fiasco was where he showed his true colors. Probably the final nail in the coffin.

 

[SagarisGTB]

In terms of cars they still shift around 175,000 units a year and are up by 100% in some parts of Europe. The numbers are relatively low but not low in themselves.

Wow, that's marginally less than what Honda shift in Canada, a market 1/20th the size of the European region. I knew Honda was struggling in Europe, but that's even less than what I would have imagined.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Wow, that's marginally less than what Honda shift in Canada, a market 1/20th the size of the European region. I knew Honda was struggling in Europe, but that's even less than what I would have imagined.

Toyota sell their exec marques as Lexus, Nissan and Renault release models strategically (eg Twingo/Micra to different countries in the past)... it seems that Honda just haven't found a good way into the market. At least they build a lot of those Euro sales in Britain (for now)

 

[mustafur]

Ricciardo can smile all he wants in front of the cameras, the guy was frustrated getting outqualified by Verstappen and then Austria tow fiasco was where he showed his true colors. Probably the final nail in the coffin.

I doubt it, if he is frustrated it's likely because he feels like he is in groundhog day as Redbull are consistantly in the same position every year.

 

[Melbourne Park]

Why would Hamilton and Vettel be allowed to have a say for who joins them? Are they that scared of possibly being made to look bad?

Mercedes have referred to the issue, and for both Mercedes and Ferrari, "Team Balance" is one way of describing it, which really means Hamilton and Vettel would have found the team atmosphere less efficient. We've seen both other drivers - Bottas and more so Kimi driving strategically for the other driver. And why not as neither have a similar chance of winning the WDC.

Ricciardo had said publicly he would only accept being able to drive for his own wins as an equal entity. And so its now Renault.

 

[trustjab]

The problem for Honda is that Europe is not important to them. Their market share in Europe is below 2%. and Europe is Formula 1 territory. Meanwhile Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi/I think Lada too, leads market share in several Euro countries and overall is #2 in Europe, and its growing stronger than others in most of its world markets. Honda's market share is less in Europe than a decade ago, although its gone up a little lately, but its way down the popularity list in all Euro countries, its a small player, and in total size, Renault/Nissan/Mitsu etc is quite a bit larger than Honda, although in motors, I think Honda is #1, but that includes large volumes in small motors, from mowers, garden trimmers to motorbikes.

F1 is a world championship, not a European one. Honda is also sold worldwide. Not to mention you can't buy a Renault in the US which is a bigger market than Europe. I don't think the fact of European market share is larger for Renault means anything. In actuality, RB not having to pay for the Honda engine is very beneficial because they can use their $400 million a year on the car while Honda uses their own money to do the engine. That's why I said Honda money combined with RB money is something that can easily match Renault. Not that money fixes everything anyway.

I'll stand by my opinion, this is a sideways move at best for him for the foreseeable future. Honda is not that far behind Renault right now and RB says that the races they won this year would still have been won with a Honda engine. Seems they know all the data from Toro Rosso.

 

[Greycap]

Seeing that this season Ricciardo has collected more points, wins, pole positions and fastest laps than Verstappen - who in turn has stuffed his car into a wall, a Ferrari or a Williams quite a few times - while still getting paid less and being treated as "the other driver" in the team... I can't blame him for getting out of there. The events at Baku would have been enough for me in his position, Verstappen doing all the things drivers are told not to do while defending and still the blame being split 50/50 by the team because nobody has the balls to tell the baby nutjob that you simply don't drive like that, especially against your team mate.

 

[daan]

I'm sure all of the "He's better staying where he is" & "New team are never going to be as good as current team" arguments were also said when Hamilton went to Mercedes.

 

[Pete05]

Seeing that this season Ricciardo has collected more points, wins, pole positions and fastest laps than Verstappen - who in turn has stuffed his car into a wall, a Ferrari or a Williams quite a few times - while still getting paid less and being treated as "the other driver" in the team... I can't blame him for getting out of there. The events at Baku would have been enough for me in his position, Verstappen doing all the things drivers are told not to do while defending and still the blame being split 50/50 by the team because nobody has the balls to tell the baby nutjob that you simply don't drive like that, especially against your team mate.

This sums it up perfectly & I couldn’t have said it better myself.

 

[twitcher]

F1 is a world championship, not a European one. Honda is also sold worldwide. Not to mention you can't buy a Renault in the US which is a bigger market than Europe. I don't think the fact of European market share is larger for Renault means anything. In actuality, RB not having to pay for the Honda engine is very beneficial because they can use their $400 million a year on the car while Honda uses their own money to do the engine. That's why I said Honda money combined with RB money is something that can easily match Renault. Not that money fixes everything anyway.

I'll stand by my opinion, this is a sideways move at best for him for the foreseeable future. Honda is not that far behind Renault right now and RB says that the races they won this year would still have been won with a Honda engine. Seems they know all the data from Toro Rosso.

You can buy Nissan and Infinite in the US though.

 

[TheElbows]

F1 is a world championship in the same way our U.S. baseball is the "world series".

 

[mustafur]

US is a microscopic market for F1 compared to Europe though.

 

[TheElbows]

I'm merely endorsing the fact that F1 is at least 90% European. Mostly European manufacturers, all the teams based there, the vast majority of drivers, etc. The major external influences are almost entirely money based - with rich investors buying in and bringing the occasional foreign driver in for appearances, or as a bargaining chip. Are there any genuine teams which are heavily non-European? I can't think of one. You don't see a genuine Asian or American effort, or a South American team, etc.

Now, I'm not complaining at all, F1 is F1, that's fine.

 

[twitcher]

US is a microscopic market for F1 compared to Europe though.

Couldn’t you say that Europe is a microscopic market for Honda, compared to many other parts of the world?

The significance of any team doing well in F1 (or WEC for that matter) is really only important to a small percentage of the global population, and majority of the people it is important to are European.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm merely endorsing the fact that F1 is at least 90% European. Mostly European manufacturers, all the teams based there, the vast majority of drivers, etc. The major external influences are almost entirely money based - with rich investors buying in and bringing the occasional foreign driver in for appearances, or as a bargaining chip. Are there any genuine teams which are heavily non-European? I can't think of one. You don't see a genuine Asian or American effort, or a South American team, etc.

Now, I'm not complaining at all, F1 is F1, that's fine.

It's still a pretty confusing stance. I can understand the idea of a "world" series being called such when 42% of the races it entertains are in Europe. But when it's compared to a game where only a handful of the games leave America and go to Canada...and it's still called a World Series, that is where the confusing sets in.

The teams are based in Europe because it's easy during the European leg of the series to go to the 9 race and be with in driving distance of your set up. This has been a constant theme of F1 and even manufactures from Japan or the U.S. have made sure to have operations in Europe for the team while the manufacture end does work in the home nation. As for drivers yes they're European in a good amount but that doesn't change the "world" image look, considering all of Europe isn't a nation like all of the U.S. or Japan.

And you have seen genuine Asian and American efforts in the past 10 years. We've seen massive money come from various places outside of Europe, Force India was mostly Indian money since it's been around, Caterham had Malaysian money, hell Petronas on the side of Mercedes and the same Petronas that has sponsored cars for years. PDVSA, Petro Brasil, MSNBC, CNN, Microsoft, Dell, Epson and other tech giants. How about the Middle Eastern backers of McLaren and other teams? F1 may have it's roots in Europe which is what you're confusing, but that doesn't mean it's not the biggest multinational capitalistic show on four wheel for some time now. Even the new owners of the FOM are not European.

 

[Melbourne Park]

F1 financially markets to both Asia and Europe. That's the reality. By the way, Haas is a US based F1 team. Its not been around long, but it is US, although it uses much Euro tech as the formula currently is powertrain dominated. Fact is though that while F1 would love to be big in North America, for a while even having a race there annually looked unlikely. The Canadian GP though has always been certain. But in the "ladder of the mind" of US citizens, F1 is well down from the top, and even automotively, its not important.

Honda though have been in F1 for years and years, and when the Financial crisis caused them to pull out of F1, not long after Toyota and BMW left, it was the ex Ferrari guru who was ex Bennetton where Michael Schumacher won his first two World Driver's Championships, Brawn stepped into the Honda operation and got the excellent Mercedes ICE and due to F1 rulings accepting the new generation formula's innovative diffuser technology which Brawn had best made use of. Brawn then became Mercedes who eventually dominated F1 when another large change in the rules introduced the turbo hybrids.

So Honda has been in F1 heaps but not been particularly successful outside of a generation of good Honda Williams used famously by Ayrton Senna (excuse the abbreviation).

Renault has done lots in F1 and most pontificate that when a huge car company goes into F1 its not going to be a tight budget operation. And Renault are highly familiar with F1 and IMO Ricciardo is clear evidence how serious they really are. Maybe Mercedes and Ferrari will regret not grabbing him when he was available.

 

[PocketZeven]

So Honda has been in F1 heaps but not been particularly successful outside of a generation of good Honda Williams used famously by Ayrton Senna (excuse the abbreviation).

I presume you meant Mclaren-Honda!

 

[TenEightyOne]

I presume you meant Mclaren-Honda!

I suspect he does - Williams had a Renault engine when Senna drove for them.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Though it can be noted that Williams-Honda did dominate the 1986 and 1987 constructors championships. Perhaps that is where the confusion arose.

 

[Famine]

all the teams based there

Mmm, Haas isn't - although it does have a UK engineering base (in Banbury).

I drew this map for other purposes a few weeks back:

The green dots are teams, the red dots are races. The small circle is just 60 miles across (30mi radius) and covers six of 10 teams (seven if you include Haas in Banbury) and a race. The larger circle is 440 miles in radius and covers nine of 10 teams (10 if you include Haas in Banbury) and 8 of 21 races - with the Hungaroring just outside it.

 

[Melbourne Park]

One of the difficult things in assessing the future is the secrecy of F1. Flavio Briatore ( a famous or infamous character - take your pick) said in 2006: "The people in charge (of F1) should be businessmen, as they are in Hollywood, not ex-engineers. Nothing costs more, and delivers less entertainment, than hidden technology. And that’s what engineers love most of all." Hence the lead of Mercedes has taken years and fortunes to chase down. So we just don't know if Honda or Renault will catch up inside the two year window for this engine formula. But with Renault's expansion its a possibility although I imagine the Board is counting more on 2021 for championships. But Renault will have to be far more efficient than they are now to achieve success in 2021, which means they will have to improve quite a bit further, which does fit with their recent improvements and their current expansion programs. And having someone who can win championships like Ricciardo is some icing on their cake and proof of where they intend to go.