Dead weight / Usless employees

[DGB454]

Do you have these people where you work?

There are 3 people (that I know of) where I am employed who could easily be let go. 1 in shipping, 1 in accounting, 1 in customer service. Every one of them has different jobs but they all have a few things in common. 1st thing. They have way too much time and not enough work (or not enough ambition to do their work). 2nd thing. They are the complainers. 3rd thing. They see themselves as necessary.

The customer service rep appears to work hard all day and always complains how much work she has to do but at the end of the day has entered less than ¼ of the orders all the other CSR’s have entered. She spends more time and energy complaining to anyone who will listen than she does doing what she is getting paid to do. (Make money for the Company)
The guy in accounting complains about everything. How the government is screwed up, how big business is screwed up, how society as a whole is screwed up. He spends his day surfing the Internet to back up his claims and feels the need to tell everyone around him about his thoughts and findings as if they are his own original thoughts. He doesn’t realize that he is a big part of the problem rather than the cure. He keeps his hand ready to hit the alt./ tab buttons at all times so he can quickly switch between his internet forums and his spreadsheet so no one will find out he is useless to the company.
The guy in shipping comes up to the office area 2 times a day to complain about all the trucks he has to schedule that day as if he is actually doing the loading and driving himself. This guy assumes we are all unaware that he has software that does most of the work for him. His biggest job is tearing off the bill of lading and handing them to the drivers. Most of his time is spent going to porn sites and saving his pictures on cd’s that the company provides.
Every one of these employees is a drain on the company’s resources. Every one of these employees is a drain on society. They contribute very little to the organization and the people in the organization and to society. They bring morale down of the people who are contributing to the success of the company and to society.

How would I know so much about what these people do all day? I have been assigned to help our IS manager to set up software on our server to monitor not only Internet activity but also intranet activity. My part is a small one because my main duties are in design .Normally I don't like to see people loose their jobs but at the end of the month these drains will be told their services will no longer be required and I won't be sad to see them go. We will no longer have to try and avoid these people in the hall or act like we are in a hurry and can’t talk when they come over to complain to us. They have wasted our time, space and resources far to long.

We have a fork truck driver taking over the shipping managers job as well as keeping up with his regular duties. He is a good worker and will be getting a raise to drive the fork truck and hand out B.O.L.’s.
The CSR will be replaced by our receptionist who will answer the phones and take on some of the smaller customers. She is a good worker with a positive attitude who will be getting a raise to take on the extra responsibilities. The accounting guy won’t be replaced. He spends 7 of his 8 hours a day on the net so obviously we have nothing to replace. We will be hiring a temp twice a month to do the keypunching he does.

Do you have people like that where you are employed?

Big brother is watching.

Let me add 1 more question.
Do you think it's ok for the employer to look into your email and watch your online time? How about installing cameras?

 

[emad]

cameras to watch me...no. watching net usage...i guess so, but i use the net alot myself when working. i surf & work @ the same time. It works well for me, i know when it's crunch time and i know when i'm overdoing things.
scan emails? idunno...i think not, but there are times when it's necessary. In the end, i dont think everyone deserves their mails scanned, but some do.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Do you think it's ok for the employer to look into your email and watch your online time?

Yes, it's ok for them to monitor.

How about installing cameras

In the office enviornment, yes. In the bathroom where you can see me playing games on my cell phone, no.


BTW, I'm one of those internet surfing people, but it's because of lack of incentive,... not lazyness.

The role of "Peter" in the movie Office Space oppitimizes my job description.....

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by DGB454
Do you have people like that where you are employed?

Big brother is watching.

Let me add 1 more question.
Do you think it's ok for the employer to look into your email and watch your online time? How about installing cameras?

Yes, we have people like that. One guy was asked to resign by mangement; another resigned for personal reasons and would have happily stayed on if given the chance. Despite lots of negative reviews, he refused to understand how useless and disliked he was.

We also have people who actually seem to apply themselves, but are just incredibly, inhumanly, incomprehensibly slow.

My wife's department has many people like that. The management is incompetent, and the workers are lazy and sloppy. She is the one who handles all crises, picks up all slack, and still is more productive in her own job than any of the others are in theirs. My dearest wish is to win the lottery so she can walk out of there on zero notice and let them flop like landed fish.

On the subject of monitoring web usage and email: I agree in principal that companies are 100% within their rights to do so. However, I must add that relying upon that to police employees indicates a failure of management. Any decent manager should know what is going on with his people well before it comes to the state of needing to record 'net activity and email. That should only be required in order to provide incontrovertible proof to backup a potentially-contested firing.

 

[milefile]

I use web based email at work. I don't use email as part of my job. Cameras? Nah. An competent manager is better. I spend a lot of time here at GTP during my work day, like right now for instance. But like emad, sometimes there are lulls in the flow of work and other times it's "crunch time". It's a matter of managing one's time well.

These people who are going to be fired are in for a rude awakening. I don't envy the hardship they are about to face, but that's as far as my sympathy goes.


A few minutes pass...


I just had a short conversation with my boss, the company bookkeeper. We're closing out October and going through invoices and such. I hand him an invoice for an unecessary order (big heavy electric motor) that was rush shipped at a cost of $250.00. The shipment was refused and the company was charged a restocking $50.00 restocking fee. That's three hundred dollars down the drain, and nobody will bat an eye. This sort of thing is rampant around here. I see where all the money goes and a lot of it is wasted (although maybe I shouldn't complain because that's what keeps me busy). But if you ask for a small raise, even if your workload or responsibilities change, you are told "no". Performance evaluations are non-existent. Benefits are minimal.

I never complain to anyone except my boss, who feels the same way as me. We vent our frustrations, console eachother, and remind ourselves of the few benefits of working here and get back to our jobs.

The attitude of management toward the employees and my intimate knowledge of what I can and can't get away with is why I have no compunction over doing homework here, or writing this post. It is why I go to school two nights a week, slowly earning a much needed career change. The fact that I work here makes it easier and is the biggest reason why I stay. If I was offered a job making a few grand more a year somewhere else I'd probably choose to stay here for now because it offeres more than just money, but the time and flexibility to work on the future.

 

[regulate]

if your on company time and equipment, then yes they have the right to monitor your internet activities and emails to a certain extent. where i work (a bookstore) there is internet acces but were always understaffed to have some "off-time", thank you incompitnet manager! and yes we do have a worker that doesnst do a damn thing most of the time and when it comes time to close she just stands there and yaks it away with some new guy that didnt even fill out an application to work.

Milefile: doesnt all come down to not how much money you have, but how much time you have to get what needs to be done and what you want to get done .

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by regulate


Milefile: doesnt all come down to not how much money you have, but how much time you have to get what needs to be done and what you want to get done .

What?

 

[regulate]

Originally posted by milefile
If I was offered a job making a few grand more a year somewhere else I'd probably choose to stay here for now because it offeres more than just money, but the time and flexibility to work on the future.

doesnt it all, i forgot the "it".

 

[1X83Z]

It still makes no sense. In fact, it looks like one of those Japanese-translated sentences that nobody but the writer understands. Have a read:

Doesn't it all come down to not how much money you have, but how much time you have to get what needs to be done and what you want to get done?

Probably the most poorly-worded sentence I've ever read.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Try this for an interpretation:

Originally posted by regulate
Milefile: Doesn't it all come down, not to how much money you are being paid, but to how much time you have to get done what needs to be done and what you want to get done .

I think, anyway.

We have people who are professionally incompetent. They are supposed to be supporting other people, but they have little knowledge of what they're doing, and absolutely no understanding. They skitter about their daily lives, complaining about the injustice of it all, but they completely fail to understand how they could manipulate the system to further themselves.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Professionally incompetant. Hit the button on the nose. Some people have been in my department, in the same job, for 25 years.

It boils down to bad management. Dead-weight employees are due to a lack of incentives - the result of corporate beauracracy.

As for email monitoring. Monitoring for "spies" and people planning dodgy deals is ok, but the last thing I need is files of records to be hauled out at a performance review, listing all my emails.

Cameras? We got some here, but for security reasons I would guess. In the bathrooms? Bad idea.

 

[milefile]

There's some cameras here where I work. The boss watches them at night over the internet. One day a bunch of guys got fired for drinking beer in the production room. Stupid. How could they not see the cameras?

 

[boombexus]

Dead weight. Yep, there are a few that come to mind quickly.
I suppose the most frustrating, is when it's one of your boss's who is the actual dead weight. My Food and Beverage Director to be exact. First of all, that position isn't really necessary at the size of hotel I work at. His job can easily be assumed by others that are already in place here. This would save the company in the area of $80,000 a year if his position was eliminated.
The reason why I say he is dead weight is that he has trained everyone how to do his responsibilities so he doesn't have to do them himself. I could go on for hours about this guy but I will spare you all.

The most frustrating part about it is that there seems to be no way of really getting his boss to know that the Food & Beverage Directors position is useless here.

As far as dead weight employees here, well, it doesn't really exist. There are lazy ones that I am almost constantly watching and having to assign tasks to keep them busy as they are certainly not self motivated enough to keep themselfs busy. It sucks that I have to baby-sit these adults all day long.

But incentive or lack there of, does not sit well with me. Nobody needs extra incentive to do the very job they said they would do when they got hired.
A company should not have to provide anything out of the norm for an employee to do a job that they are already supposed to be doing, and doing to the best of their abilities. Why should a company have to entice you to do your job? IMO, those that say they need an incentive to do their jobs are the lazy and unmotivated ones. In other words, they are the "Dead Weight."
The real incentive is to do a good job and excel at ones duties, then by doing so, they get a raise in pay and quite possibly a promotion. Or at the very least, a sense of self worth and the personal satisfaction of a job well done. That's the incentive.
I go to work everyday and do a great job. My incentive for doing a great job are raises, promotions and self satisfaction, and I have been very successful by doing just that.

 

[DGB454]

Originally posted by boombexus




But incentive or lack there of, does not sit well with me. Nobody needs extra incentive to do the very job they said they would do when they got hired.
A company should not have to provide anything out of the norm for an employee to do a job that they are already supposed to be doing, and doing to the best of their abilities. Why should a company have to entice you to do your job? IMO, those that say they need an incentive to do their jobs are the lazy and unmotivated ones. In other words, they are the "Dead Weight."
The real incentive is to do a good job and excel at ones duties, then by doing so, they get a raise in pay and quite possibly a promotion. Or at the very least, a sense of self worth and the personal satisfaction of a job well done. That's the incentive.
I go to work everyday and do a great job. My incentive for doing a great job are raises, promotions and self satisfaction, and I have been very successful by doing just that.

I couldn't agree more. You got hired to do a job so do it. Your paycheck and the satisfaction of a job well done is your incentive.
You should be giving the company you work for incentive to keep paying you. Their incentive is a hard working employee.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by DGB454
I couldn't agree more. You got hired to do a job so do it. Your paycheck and the satisfaction of a job well done is your incentive.
You should be giving the company you work for incentive to keep paying you. Their incentive is a hard working employee.

Sorry DGB but that statement is crap..... IMHO.
SOunds like it came right froma managers mouth,.. a well paid manager at that.

 

[Duke]

No, I have to agree with boom and DGB. Think of it this way:

Level 1: You do a basic job, you get a basic paycheck. Give, take. Note that this functions at many levels of seniority.

Level 2: You do a better than basic job, and you get a basic paycheck plus a raise and/or bonus. You give a little more, you take a little more.

Level 3: You do an outstanding job, you get paid a good salary and bonus, plus you get promoted to a better position. Give a lot and get a lot.

I'm not saying it always works this way. Certainly people get undeserved bonuses and promotions. But people also keep jobs who don't do even the basic level of work.

But you should never expect a Level 2 reward for doing a Level 1 job, and many people seem to. Business rely on workers, it's true; but they rely on having someone to fill a given position, whether or not that person is you makes no difference to the business. You need to make yourself valuable if you expect to make a difference. If you have little skill and do a lackluster job, don't expect to play a vital role and get lots of incentives. If you have little skill but you make up for it in hard work and high productivity, you will be noticed and you will be given incentives - often in the form of skill training.

 

[milefile]

Some people do a better than basic job, are even required to continually take on more responsibility, longer hours, etc, and get no raise, no promotion.

The stock argument is "go get a better job", as if it is so simple.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Your examples are "Perfect World" examples Duke,.... one in which we do not live in.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by milefile
............ as if it is so simple.

yet,..... so true. People say it like its sooooooo easy. Yeah, findin a 8-12 dollar an hour job is easy,... but livin off that wage isnt. Everything else above that is very tough these days. (we have corperate scandle to thank for that right now).

 

[Duke]

I stipulated that it does not always work that way. But I'd wager that the number of people who are under-rewarded are about balanced out by the number of people who are over-rewarded.

If you're one of the under-rewarded types, like milefile said, go get a different job. If can't find other jobs, maybe you're mistaken about your status.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by milefile
The stock argument is "go get a better job", as if it is so simple.

You yourself stated that you had an opportunity to get a better job. For certain reasons, you chose not to pursue it. Don't blame the job market for that.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

I check Hotjobs, Monster.com, and JustTechJobs (and e-mail, mailers) everyday for the last year..... I cant get shit.

I've been running AutoCAD nonstop since the 9th grade,... also certified by AutoDESK. I can 100% confidently say I believe I have one of the fastest AutoCAD fingers out there (it's just like a video game to me) Yet, no employer will even consider giving me an interview because I dont have a complete college education.

The corperate world is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hung up on the "college education theory". The 21st century is the day of the specialist,... not the guy who who learned english 101 and history 101 inbetweeen frat parties and beer bong tournaments.

SO,.. I'm stuck at this "Ma and Pop" farm industrial supply company,.. with an owner for a boss who "doesnt want to make money on his customers cause it's the 'godly' thing to do".........

He forks over 60 hour OT checks to the road crew who does about 30 real hours of work. I showed him a simple formula on how he could save 150 man hours a year PLUS 15,000 a year,.... the ignorant fcker said he was happy with his current situation.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by neon_duke
I stipulated that it does not always work that way. But I'd wager that the number of people who are under-rewarded are about balanced out by the number of people who are over-rewarded.

But I don't care about any of them. It's a hypothetical wager. My concern is my paycheck, nobody else's.

Job growth in this country currently means service jobs. Service jobs means Walmart, resturaunts, etc. This is not what a lot of people are looking for. For those who are looking to enter a professional field, the prospects are grim. It is not so simple. Bush's recent economic numbers are no comfort. I'm sick of hearing about service jobs. Most of them will be taken up by illegals anyway. I'm also sick of hearing about manufacturing jobs. There is no future in manufacturing, not even in China.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

To summarize my rant,..... it is the employers responsibility to keep the employee happy, not the other way around.

incentive, incentive, incentive.....I cant stress it enough.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
To summarize my rant,..... it is the employers responsibility to keep the employee happy, not the other way around.

incentive, incentive, incentive.....I cant stress it enough.

From reading both your post and milefile's directly above, obviously this is not the case. If there are many more people available than there are positions, such as the professional jobs milefile says do not exist, or the better place RER would rather work, then it is the potential employee's job to make himself stand out.

Simple as that. Labor is a commodity almost like any other. The more generic your skill set, the less demands you can make against potential employers.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
To summarize my rant,..... it is the employers responsibility to keep the employee happy, not the other way around.

incentive, incentive, incentive.....I cant stress it enough.

In a good job market, yes. In the current one they don't have to do anything. It's simple economics. If your employer knows you can easily go somwhere else if you're unhappy they will bend over backward to keep you. If they know it is unlikely you will find anything better, they will pay you your wage and that'll be the end of it. I've been on both ends of this. I've been begged to not quit, and gotten to choose from numerous offers. But that was a field I despise and can't do anymore. It was also eight years ago. Things are different now. Now my incentive is study study study until I can move on to somehting that is a real improvement, not just the same thing in a different building.

There are people out there who say that I have no business being put off by the fact that my employer will not give me, or anyone else here, a raise (promotion is out of the question unless you have the owner's last name). I understand why he won't, but I think I would do differently if I were him. I can't imagine feeling any differently about it. Planning on (fantasizing about) quitting and moving on, and up, comfort me and get me through to the next day. They are my motivation to get out of bed at 4:00 AM every day and study before work, spend two nights a week in class when I'd rather be relaxing after working nine and half hours, and practically having no rest whatsoever ouside of six hours of sleep a night, max. There is no easy way and I don't expect one. I just keep my fingers crossed that by the time I'm ready to leave, the job market is ready to take me because I know right now it wouldn't be.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by neon_duke
.....then it is the potential employee's job to make himself stand out.

Simple as that. Labor is a commodity almost like any other. The more generic your skill set, the less demands you can make against potential employers.

I dont think were talking exactly about the same thing.

I see what your saying about how it's my responsiblitly to promote myself,... BUT, in accordance to the topic title, and my previous rant about 'searching for a job',... my point is that I wouldnt be lazy at my job if my boss wanst such an ignoramous. I'm not lazy here because I'm lazy,.... I'm lazy because I'm underappreciated,.. AFTER BUSTING MY ARSE at the beginning because I do have skill you spoke of,.. .but when there is no reward for busting your butt,.. then whats the point of doing it?

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by neon_duke
From reading both your post and milefile's directly above, obviously this is not the case. If there are many more people available than there are positions, such as the professional jobs milefile says do not exist, or the better place RER would rather work, then it is the potential employee's job to make himself stand out.

Simple as that. Labor is a commodity almost like any other. The more generic your skill set, the less demands you can make against potential employers.

All that is true, but I think you portray it as if the job market is good and people should be happy with it, that if they are having problems it's the fault of their own mediocrity or failure. Quite simply, it is difficult to improve your standing in this job market no matter what you do or who you are. I hope this changes soon. But if you have the job you intend to keep for a long time, it doesn't affect you much. Those working toward a goal you've already achieved are having a different, less predictable, more difficult experience.

 

[Der Alta]

Let's see...Where to start.

Well, I'm all about dead weight in a company. Why if it weren't for them, I'd not have the reputation as the Man to call when everything hits the fan. More times than I can count, I've been called into a managers meeting and asked "This project is way behind, can you pull it together?" and every time I do. 98% of the time it's one of two reasons. 1. The PM suffers from rectal-cranial inversion, or 2. The Job Captain suffers from it. Either way it always lands in my lap.

Why is it that I'm the one picking up the pieces with twice the amount of work to do in half the time needed?

A prime example. At the previous firm, I was laid off. The PM I was working for regularly put in 60-65 hours a week. Yet never seemed to accomplish anything. He was removed from 3 of 4 projects because the owner said they wanted a PM that knew what he was doing. This is the same guy that cost the company $400,000 on the three jobs he was removed from. Keep in mind that was twice the profit the company had planned on making that year. So when it rolled around to tightening the belt, I and two other people were ushered out the door. Who got to keep his job? You guessed it. He did.

This is more aggravating than any other issue out there. I busted my hump putting in 50 hour weeks, pinch hitting and fixing other people mistakes, filling in as the IT guy and numerous other duties. My billable rate was 106.5% of my time. In other word, break even profitability on me for the company was 82.8% and I was billable for nearly 25% more. The company made a handsome profit on me, but I still got shoved out the door. The underlying reason? I don't have kids and my wife has a job. Before you jump to conclusions, I learned about this months later when talking with the old boss.

Yet the Dead weight persists in every firm. I see it at this new firm. We've got people that have remained in their position for 25 years, because nobody has challenged what they do.

Here's a good one: My wife runs a large pet supply store. She has 17 year old boys working for her that can't pass an equivalency test. They can't count or make change from a sale. She has to watch them like a hawk to get them to do anything. On top of that, she has a night manager who is worthless. So who gets caught holding the bag when the District manager stops by and sees the condition of the store? You guessed it, my wife.

Now let's get onto the E-mail/internet thing. We have chronic surfers at this firm, and we had them at the last firm. This firm we had a guy get fired because he came in one morning, and found the IT guy sitting at his desk looking through his computer. Guy starts yelling and the boss walks in. When the IT guy finished explaining what he had found, the Boss fired him on the spot. Between the porn, the music, and the gambling it turns out this guy was spending 7.5 hours a day on the web. Our IT guy is on of our PM's. He's so overloaded that I'm filling in for him (surprise AO gets to pinch hit again). So as far as tracking web surfing and e-mail abuse, there's no one to do it.

While Duke's rules do lay out a pretty good formula for rewarding and encouraging employees it fails much to easily. I'd love to work for an employer who abides by those rules.

RER, if you're looking for a job running AutoCAD, we've gotta talk. Out here in Boston you get two types of CAD Drafters. The one who think they can run it but can't, and those that know they can run it but bill at $40 per hour. so who does the company hire? Two worhtless drafters and pay them $20 an hour to do the job that one good drafter can do.

I'll reference back to Fatmouse. Getting stuck in a bad career and my answer [*]No, having a bad career is life, if it was a good career, I'd be paid 10mil per year the spokesman for Beer drinking fisherman.

After dealing with the architecture and retail industry for so long, I've set the bar so long as to not disappoint myself with what other people can accomplish. The hard part is that when the bar is set so low, the next group of people don't even try to make it that far.

AO

 

[DGB454]

Bravo...Der Alta. I don't know how many times I have seen the usless prosper over the useful. Well at the end of the month 3 of them won't. What's that old saying? "The cream always raises to the top"? Well in the buisness world it seems crap also floats to the top.
All you can do is give it the best you can and sleep good at night knowing you put in an honest days work.