Deadly Knife Attack In Tokyo

Why is it that every incident has to have some sort of social or environmental cause? Maybe the guy was just nuts!

If there's a shooting in the US, we always have to debate whether guns, society, the internet, videogames, movies etc. were to blame. The KID was to blame!

Same thing for Japan. Sure Japanese society isn't the same as every other country, but that doesn't excuse this guy to start going on a slashing spree. The guy's a loon, plain and simple.

Could he have done more damage with a better weapon (both those that he had access to legally and those he didn't) yes. Could people have been able to defend themselves better if they'd been armed? Probably.

Let's move on. I tire of people trying to "fix" the problem every time something like this happens.
 
Same thing for Japan. Sure Japanese society isn't the same as every other country, but that doesn't excuse this guy to start going on a slashing spree. The guy's a loon, plain and simple.

.....
 
^lol, it's ur bad... you picked the name. :P

Why is it that every incident has to have some sort of social or environmental cause? Maybe the guy was just nuts!

Well, yeah... if you think about it like "nature" in the "wild" then any behavior makes sense. He did it just because he felt like it. : shrugs:
 
Yes, during peak hours there are women only carriages on some train lines. This was implemented because of the large amount of groping incidents.

We've got them here, too. But with the number of old women who've elbowed me, trod on my feet and shoved me aside when getting on the train, that's just damn unfair. :grumpy:
 
Why is it that every incident has to have some sort of social or environmental cause? Maybe the guy was just nuts!

If there's a shooting in the US, we always have to debate whether guns, society, the internet, videogames, movies etc. were to blame. The KID was to blame!

Same thing for Japan. Sure Japanese society isn't the same as every other country, but that doesn't excuse this guy to start going on a slashing spree. The guy's a loon, plain and simple.

No one is excusing the man from going on a killing spree. However, if it is found that societal pressures lead to these types of instances, then by changing things we have a chance to decrease the amount of instances that take place.

For the majority of people out there. Japanese societies woes are of no concern and need no fixing. But what about those 7 people who lost their lives? What would they have to say?
 
For the majority of people out there. Japanese societies woes are of no concern and need no fixing. But what about those 7 people who lost their lives? What would they have to say?

No society is perfect. They should be concentrating on making their laws fair, not trying to save as many lives as possible.
 
No one is excusing the man from going on a killing spree. However, if it is found that societal pressures lead to these types of instances, then by changing things we have a chance to decrease the amount of instances that take place.

For the majority of people out there. Japanese societies woes are of no concern and need no fixing. But what about those 7 people who lost their lives? What would they have to say?

It's just this.

Some people are commenting that by changing some aspect of Japanese life... in other words... change their gun control laws... those 7 people wouldn't have been slashed. So... what about people who would be shot?

The same argument could be made about school shootings in the US. Arguments for gun control state that giving no guns to psychos would save people. Said psychos would instead do what? Run people down with cars, commit stabbing crimes, or send bombs by post.

They're looking at the mechanism by which the psychos commit the crime, but the reality is, they'll use whatever is at hand to kill people. What you should be looking at is the roots of the psychosis. It's part cultural, yes, but a lot of it is due to mental instability. Not every lonely, overstressed nerd goes on a shooting or stabbing spree... If they did, there'd probably be nobody left alive in Tokyo or New York. You cannot completely prevent psychotic outbursts, but there should be an effort to identify a person with deteriorating mental health before they go postal.

What you're positing is that Japanese social problems cause these people to go postal. Well... people turn psychotic everywhere. Fact of life. What's lacking is the mechanism by which we can detect a developing psychosis early and squelch it.

@Danoff: I disagree that government shouldn't try to protect people. That's the whole reason "government" was created in the first place, for the security of the populace. Which is what we pay taxes for. No protection, no reason to pay tax. Laws are only one means by which governments assure their people's security. And they should be formulated to assure the security of the citizenry, not the government itself.
 
Let's move on. I tire of people trying to "fix" the problem every time something like this happens.
So what's the alternative? Stick your head in the sand and ignore it? Where do you draw the line?

This incident has incited debate, yes. But that's only natural, the line has not yet been crossed to the point that something drastic has to be made, but a debate will ensue anyway.


A perfect example of where do you draw the line is a spate of adolescent suicides in a town near me. So a couple of kids comitted suicide, happens everywhere. But then it carried on happening. 21 15-30yr olds have now commited suicide in little over a year, at what point should they have gone, oh wait a second, this isn't right.
 
@Danoff: I disagree that government shouldn't try to protect people.

Me neither. Glad I didn't say that.

Laws are only one means by which governments assure their people's security. And they should be formulated to assure the security of the citizenry, not the government itself.

They should be formulated out of principle, not to maximize security. Maximum security means rounding ever single individual up and putting them in a straight jacket in a padded room. You can keep everyone alive if you do that. My point is that there are some things that are more important than security - which means we have to tolerate a certain degree of crime.

So what's the alternative? Stick your head in the sand and ignore it? Where do you draw the line?

Draw what line? Protection vs. freedom? You do the best job you can protecting people (given a reasonable percentage of tax dollars) while not violating their rights. So a law banning guns is out of the question. As is rounding everyone up and putting them in a padded room, or banning drugs, or prostitution, etc. etc.

To sum up this post:

Human Rights > Safety
 
Me neither. Glad I didn't say that.

Oh, you know what I mean... where you said:

No society is perfect. They should be concentrating on making their laws fair, not trying to save as many lives as possible.

certainly suggests that re-formulating laws for fairness is more important than security... of course, since you're right that you didn't say what I implied you said, I accept the correction.

They should be formulated out of principle, not to maximize security. Maximum security means rounding ever single individual up and putting them in a straight jacket in a padded room. You can keep everyone alive if you do that. My point is that there are some things that are more important than security - which means we have to tolerate a certain degree of crime.

Draw what line? Protection vs. freedom? You do the best job you can protecting people (given a reasonable percentage of tax dollars) while not violating their rights. So a law banning guns is out of the question. As is rounding everyone up and putting them in a padded room, or banning drugs, or prostitution, etc. etc.

To sum up this post:

Human Rights > Safety

But at the extremes where every citizen is in a padded room, you have no economic productivity to support government, and the economy collapses, of which Russia is a perfect example... :lol: But then, in such a police state, detainment of civilians is usually more for the protection of the state itself rather than the protection of the populace. In other words, such detentions are often more politically motivated than directly linked to direct threats to the citizenry.

Security is a Human Right. Though some may assert that the Right to protect oneself is preferable to the acceptance of protection from a government, that's what governments were built for, so that their citizens wouldn't have to spend every waking moment practicing their marksmanship and training in martial arts. Government implies trading a certain amount of freedom for a certain amount of security. Banning guns designed for combat (Japan allows hunting rifles, I believe) is one freedom given up for a certain amount of security from gun crime.

But then, I'm not anti-gun, like I said before. Personally, I believe that if you're paying that much in tax dollars, the commensurate effort of the police to prevent crime, whether by closer monitoring to reduce response time or by psychological profiling to detect loonies before they trigger.

Otherwise, give me my gun, give me my ammo, and stop collecting taxes from me. I can hold off an entire Chinese battalion just fine from my sniper's nest.
 
Security is a Human Right. Though some may assert that the Right to protect oneself is preferable to the acceptance of protection from a government, that's what governments were built for, so that their citizens wouldn't have to spend every waking moment practicing their marksmanship and training in martial arts. Government implies trading a certain amount of freedom for a certain amount of security. Banning guns designed for combat (Japan allows hunting rifles, I believe) is one freedom given up for a certain amount of security from gun crime.
The problem is that security starts to get very loosely defined. We ban certain unhealthy food products so that you can be secure in knowing that eating fast food won't give you a heart attack.

Some countries ban certain speech in order to mainatin security, because you know words are harmful. The reasoning given is that it may incite violence and threaten security.


Where do you set the line?
 
Personally, as I read Niky's responses I see more and more of a philosophical difference in opinion with those debating...

Niky, you seem to be arguing a contradiction... On one hand you speak of social protection (through the advocation of tighter restrictions on the availability of weapons) and on the other hand you advocate an "every man for himself" attitude (referencing the "Guns and Taxes" issue Niky discusses).

Furthermore, I find it naive to believe government was formed and maintained simply for protection.
Beyond that, I find it humorous to see "give me a gun and stop taking my taxes."

I suppose you're overlooking all other roles of government just to impress your point of protection?

Governments were introduced for a variety of reasons (which some of the world's most educated scholars may still debate today).
To act as if allowing gun ownership nullifies the need for government or taxation is simple and inappropriate. No one advocating the use or ownership of guns has made statements to that extent (other than Niky) and I'd wager very few ever would make such a statement.

This topic shouldn't be a debate on the legalities of gun ownership.
This should be a topic to discuss the problems with violence in Japan and other developed nations face, hence my reference to eating disorders and other social phenomena unique to the world's developed nations.
(should is a funny word and using it can be tricky)

Any way, I feel about the same as I did when I first responded.
Tragic. :(
 
This should be a topic to discuss the problems with violence in Japan and other developed nations face

My question remains, why do we need to do a full infrastructural/cultural evaluation when some nutjob goes on a killing spree? Nutjobs are always going to go on killing sprees unless you take away all freedom altogether. It's simply something that we have to live with.
 
My question remains, why do we need to do a full infrastructural/cultural evaluation when some nutjob goes on a killing spree?
Because just reporting a news story wouldn't fill in a 24 hour news cycle?
 
Quotes both danoff and foolkiller...

Perfect! :cheers:
:lol:
I couldn't care less for the ensuing discussion, I was just trying give my take on the topic and events of the thread... I made an initial reply and the second reply was merely a response to niky (along with other stuff).

Point is, I don't need to have a discussion here and my limited (until now) involvement should be evidence of that...

Heck, in 19 minutes I'm leaving for class at university (summer school Term I) Soc-4?? "Development of Social Theory." :lol: :cheers:
(great class, 3 hr lecture, daily writing assignment, daily readings and journals for homework, monday-thursday 1:30pm-4:30pm) 👍 :ouch:
Tough but a good fast way to get some credits. :mischievous:
 
The problem is that security starts to get very loosely defined. We ban certain unhealthy food products so that you can be secure in knowing that eating fast food won't give you a heart attack.

Some countries ban certain speech in order to mainatin security, because you know words are harmful. The reasoning given is that it may incite violence and threaten security.


Where do you set the line?

There's the rub. Curtailing freedom of speech is more of a morality/political thing. Which I disagree with. Laws on libel/slander provide an easy out for people to attack their opponents. Censorship has more to do with cultural bias (communist, religious, puritan, whatever) than anything else... food product banning is in line with the current religion of the month... which is... "health".

Banning speech that may lead to violence is a band-aid. You can still get into fisticuffs without actually saying any taboo words. In fact, you could die from a text message. Actually, I can't rightly recall any speech banned other than those against the politics, religion or morals of the country in question. Even words like the f* word are not violent in and of themselves, just in the lewdness of their usage. And they're banned not because they incite fighting, but because they're "vulgar". On forums I've been at without the restrictions, we've had less fights than other, more straight-laced places. Use it often enough, and it becomes more like a Canadian "Ey" than an actual word.

While a ban on smoking may have a little merit (though total bans, considering we breathe automotive exhaust every day, are questionable), since close, non-voluntary exposure to carcinogens isn't very nice... a ban on anything you voluntarily put into your body, as a consenting adult (alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, LSD, whatever) doesn't have any basis... it's your body, mess it up any way you like. Proper labelling can be mandated... you have the right to know what goes into your body... but you can't completely ban any kind of food for possible, but marginal, health concerns (fats, sugar) or imaginary ones (non-organics... GMOs).

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RE: Gun Laws. I'm not in favor of a complete gun ban, but it makes sense for a country to assure its security by making sure that weapons don't end up in the hands of elements that may cause harm to their citizens. Maybe you don't see it that way, but I live in a country with an active guerilla/rebel movement, and while there is no free license to own firearms, the laws are poorly enforced. I've met people who own stuff M16s, AK47s and grenades under their pillows. That's protection from... what? A grenade won't necessarily stop someone from making holes in you. All it does is make bigger holes in other people. Gun crime is rampant here because of poorly enforced gun laws. And private gun owners, despite their considerable number, have never, in recent memory, prevented a gun crime. Only one I can think of is a security guard who took out half-a-dozen bank robbers with a shotgun. On the contrary, a gun gives you the ability to shoot first, ask questions later, and stand trial if it turns out your assailant was actually unarmed (happened last month).

The argument is for more defensive weapons, really, rather than offensive weapons. Those you can use without compunction or fear of legal reprisal. And if you're going to allow weapons, do it properly, with proper psych profiling.

Which strays from my point... my point was that the existence of a loonatic slashing/stabbing/ramming/shooting/bombing/whatever on the street has nothing to do with gun laws.

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RE: government: the basic purpose of government is security. We don't need a government to form communities. Communities are independent of goverment. We don't need a government to grow our own crops, or build our own homes, provide our water or electricity. You can till the soil, erect a hut, dig a well or an irrigation canal and either buy or build a generator or live with home-made candles.

Hell, without taxes, we could do these things even more easily.

But as a village or a community, your land, your produce and your properties need to be defended against those who would deprive you of them. To do the defense yourself would require an investment of time, money and manpower that could be better used to increase your wealth. That's where government comes in. By paying taxes, you assure yourself of security against being invaded by a community or group bigger than yours. It's mafia-style protection money, actually... but done legitimately.

In a utopian world, we wouldn't have big government. We would all exist co-dependently in our little towns, exchanging e-mails, information, new discoveries, etcetera, and living self-sufficiently without anyone poking their noses in our business. But this ain't no utopia. There are criminals, gangs, guerilla groups, militias, and entire countries devoted to taking what's yours and making it theirs. Even if you're armed to the teeth, if you're outnumbered, you're outnumbered.

Which means, unfortunately, that government is a necessary evil. Taxes go to your government's military and police, who are charged with protecting you, because you're paying their wages.

You're also paying for subsidized public utility (depending on the government... thank Dog we're privatized now) and social programs (whose purpose is to try to turn useless members of society into productive members... though it doesn't quite always work that way) and for a bureaucratic hierarchy that reaches from the dirt to the high heavens (the curse of any growing organization...). Government sucks, but what's the alternative? I don't advocate an "every man for himself" attitude. It's just that if government fails, that's what society becomes... anarchy.

And I'd probably stand about as good a chance of holding off a foreign invasion as Urkle would of getting a spot on the Lakers.
 
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