Did SMS Fulfill This Promise?

[grooks10]

I know, I know, that's a super inflammatory title. But bear with me.

I love this game. I would play it every day if I wasn't in school right now, but I guess distance makes the heart grow fonder. But one of the things I was looking forward to in this game was this line in their promotional materials:

"THE WIDEST VARIETY OF MOTORSPORTS with 8 different disciplines now including Rallycross, Hillclimbs, and Touge. 200+ cars from over 40 different vehicle classes including never-before-seen Concepts and Banned Race Cars"

While I certainly agree that they have one of their most diverse car lists I've ever seen (aside from Forza), but I don't really think their car list fulfills the promise outlined in this claim. Banned race cars? I was expecting something like the Chaparral 2J or the Brabham BT46. But I don't really see any banned cars here. Sure, Group B and GT1 are a couple series that have been dissolved, but that's different from being banned. And never-before-seen concepts? Am I missing something here? I don't think there is a single concept car in this game. I guess the 720S was never-before-seen, but not really a concept. Also, touge doesn't exist in this game. At least not in the way that we would expect it.

I was hoping that cars like these proposed concepts and banned cars would add to the diversity, and I'm certainly not disappointed with what we have, but I just feel like this was a big claim that they didn't really deliver on. What do you think?

 

[05XR8]

California and Nurb point to point locations, are our touge and hillclimbs. Marketing hype will be what it is: "Cars 'new' to Gran Turismo 6...", " Cars, for the first time ever, in Gran Turismo: Sport".

The Honda 2&4 is a concept. Isn't the Aston Martin GT, a concept? The Group A R32 was banned, as was the Audi 90 GTO.

I feel SMS delivered.... and more to come.

 

[Wolfe]

Touge and hillclimbs were scrapped. PCARS1 proposed "rally" and didn't deliver, but then we got this great rallycross content in PCARS2, so we'll see what PCARS3 brings.

 

[Echo_29]

When they announced PC2 back then, yes they stated it would have Hillclimb etc, but we got Rallycross instead! Content that was going to be in the game was stated well before the release of the game and then you make the decision if you still want to buy it.

 

[Scaff]

Group B was banned.

The WRC remained in place with Group B cars banned and replaced with a totally different class of cars.

In terms of the widest range of Motorsport I personally think they have done that.

 

[Harry Freq]

I honestly believe the range is too wide, Too many tracks, Too many AI variables to get to grips with etc etc and it's headed straight down the route of a jack of all trades game and sadly not being the master sim game it could of should of expected of!

 

[Scaff]

I honestly believe the range is too wide, Too many tracks, Too many AI variables to get to grips with etc etc and it's headed straight down the route of a jack of all trades game and sadly not being the master sim game it could of should of expected of!

Too many tracks isn't anything I've ever heard someone state as a problem for a title.

As for the AI, it's improved significantly since launch and is still better than the AI in a title with a significantly smaller track roster.

 

[Harry Freq]

Too many tracks isn't anything I've ever heard someone state as a problem for a title.

As for the AI, it's improved significantly since launch and is still better than the AI in a title with a significantly smaller track roster.

Some tracks the AI is hopeless other times it's like a rocket, Tons and tons of options isnt necessarily always a good thing.

 

[Scaff]

Some tracks the AI is hopeless other times it's like a rocket, Tons and tons of options isnt necessarily always a good thing.

A balance that has, as I said, improved significantly in the last few patches.

 

[Harry Freq]

A balance that has, as I said, improved significantly in the last few patches.

It could only get better. Still has a long way to go.

If SMS were more focussed on getting things right first and foremost it would benefit them greatly then put the bells and whislte's on. No point in keep on adding more and more and more and more...if you dont have the core/basics 100% bang on.

 

[Scaff]

It could only get better. Still has a long way to go.

If SMS were more focussed on getting things right first and foremost it would benefit them greatly then put the bells and whislte's on. No point in keep on adding more and more and more and more...if you dont have the core/basics 100% bang on.

Name one title that has the core basics 100%.

The AI is still a damn sight better than GTS's and a lot better than ACs was at launch.

I will personally take having to adjust the AI setting for a now small number of tracks over the chronic rubber banding and dog slow pace of GTS.

 

[Harry Freq]

Name one title that has the core basics 100%.

The AI is still a damn sight better than GTS's and a lot better than ACs was at launch.

I will personally take having to adjust the AI setting for a now small number of tracks over the chronic rubber banding and dog slow pace of GTS.

You mistake me for a GTS fan. Im purely talking about what PCARS should get right not what other titles are doing.

 

[grooks10]

I guess you're right about the Honda 2&4 being a good concept, but that car only came with DLC, as did the Nissan Skyline R32. Calling Group B "banned" seems a little extreme to me; I would be more inclined to say it was dissolved as a series.

My problem with those claims is that they were emphasized so much as part of the promotional material, but once the car list was announced, there was pretty much no attention paid at all to those banned cars and concept (again, excluding the Honda. They did a nice write-up of the Honda).

I guess I should be happy about it though given that I probably would have been complaining if there were too many concept cars and not as many real race cars. I guess it would have been a lose-lose either way! Haha

 

[Scaff]

I guess you're right about the Honda 2&4 being a good concept, but that car only came with DLC, as did the Nissan Skyline R32. Calling Group B "banned" seems a little extreme to me; I would be more inclined to say it was dissolved as a series.

The series (the World Rally Championship) was not dissolved, a class of car (group B) was banned from competition in it. Other classes racing in it at the same time (group A and group N) were not banned and continued to be allowed to compete.

I'm old enough to remember this, group B was banned from WRC competition.

Group B was one of three categories of car in the WRC at the time, it was the only one banned from entry and as a result Group A became the top tier.

You mistake me for a GTS fan. Im purely talking about what PCARS should get right not what other titles are doing.

No, I'm simply using it as an example that no title gets the basics 100% right, as such setting that as a minimum standard for one is odd to say the least.

 

[flamingchariot]

Senna's Formula 1 Lotus and all the Unlimited V10 and V12 (turbocharged) machines were banned and replaced with less explosive (literally) safer machines with a common sort of BoP race reg system where all the cars had to be of a standard. That car is due out (*possibly in a few days) perhaps you shouldn't believe the hype or moderate your expectations knowing how everything is marketed nowadays...

 

[Cluck]

"THE WIDEST VARIETY OF MOTORSPORTS with 8 different disciplines now including Rallycross, Hillclimbs, and Touge. 200+ cars from over 40 different vehicle classes including never-before-seen Concepts and Banned Race Cars"

This was an early indication, an aspirational goal if you will, of what the team were wanting to produce. Like any game, plans change along the way and so things like hillclimb and touge were dropped. Personally, I ignore "early aspirations" when it comes to buying a game, I look at what's actually going to be included in the final product. Producing a game is no different to real life, we all have ideals of what we want to do, where we want to be but it usually never works out to be that simple does it .

Personally, as a racing game, I'm not bothered at all that hillclimb and touge were dropped. They are very niche disciplines and do not lend themselves to great multiplayer - let's face it, hillclimb is just you against the hill and touge is you against the hill but with another car on your backside. It might add appeal to a very select audience but that audience is going to be tiny compared to traditional racing. Before somebody jumps in with "yeah, but they still threw Rallycross in", at least Rallycross caters for multiple cars and is a growing sport in the real world. Do I drive it? No, I prefer tarmac. Would I mind touge or hillclimb being included? No, not at all. I would probably do the hillclimb stuff - as a bit of a time-trial whore myself - but I doubt I'd even take one look at touge.

EDIT :

I can't stress enough the point about ignoring early aspirations. The only thing that matters is what is in the game at release (and after all the content is released) and whether the game lives up to your expectations of that included content.

For the future, there is only one thing I would want from pCARS2, making it the perfect multiplayer experience. That thing is driver swaps. As it is, pCARS2 still does many things far better than a lot of other sims/games out there and has thoroughly spoiled me (and I'm sure, lots of us) when it comes to our expectations of a sim. And for any faults within pCARS1 and 2, they will both be remembered as the sims that moved things forward in this genre, allowing us to start expecting (demanding, even) weather, day/night transitions in our sims, just as real world drivers experience.

 

[grooks10]

Group B was one of three categories of car in the WRC at the time, it was the only one banned from entry and as a result Group A became the top tier.

Right, but the Group B cars continued to run in Rallycross, which is how they are being used in this game. So I guess saying they were banned was an overstatement in itself. But that's interesting about the three classes in the WRC! I didn't know about those!

I just feel differently about banning a single car versus banning an entire class of cars. Yes, it is technically a ban, but banning a class feels more like the ending of an era (like the "Group B Era") rather than disallowing particular cars from competition due to their speed and technology (like the 2J and BT46). Sometimes being able to drive those particular cars can be really exciting, even if they won't fit nicely into a class!

And Cluck, I think you're right. The consumer must be able to temper their expectations, which I'm obviously not very good at that yet! And I know the devs over at SMS will continue to learn and grow and how to best communicate with their audience. No gaming companies do it perfectly, so it will be fun to see how the series grows. As they continue to develop games, they will get better and better, and they will be able to include more of the content that they aspire to include.

 

[Scaff]

Right, but the Group B cars continued to run in Rallycross, which is how they are being used in this game. So I guess saying they were banned was an overstatement in itself. But that's interesting about the three classes in the WRC! I didn't know about those!

The Rallycross series they ran in were quite different to rally stages of the day, the FIA banned group B from the WRC. As such its not really an overstatement to say they were banned.

I just feel differently about banning a single car versus banning an entire class of cars. Yes, it is technically a ban, but banning a class feels more like the ending of an era (like the "Group B Era") rather than disallowing particular cars from competition due to their speed and technology (like the 2J and BT46). Sometimes being able to drive those particular cars can be really exciting, even if they won't fit nicely into a class!

Had they just run the course and been replaced with another version of the same thing then I would agree (as has happened many times in F1 for example), but they resulted in the deaths of a number of drivers, co-drivers and spectators, due to being considered too fast to be controllable. The ban removed all cars of that class with no replacement category (group A had already been running in the WRC for years when it then became the top tier).

 

[2112]

Right, but the Group B cars continued to run in Rallycross, which is how they are being used in this game. So I guess saying they were banned was an overstatement in itself. But that's interesting about the three classes in the WRC! I didn't know about those!

I just feel differently about banning a single car versus banning an entire class of cars. Yes, it is technically a ban, but banning a class feels more like the ending of an era (like the "Group B Era") rather than disallowing particular cars from competition due to their speed and technology (like the 2J and BT46). Sometimes being able to drive those particular cars can be really exciting, even if they won't fit nicely into a class!

And Cluck, I think you're right. The consumer must be able to temper their expectations, which I'm obviously not very good at that yet! And I know the devs over at SMS will continue to learn and grow and how to best communicate with their audience. No gaming companies do it perfectly, so it will be fun to see how the series grows. As they continue to develop games, they will get better and better, and they will be able to include more of the content that they aspire to include.

The Porsche 917/10 was outright banned as was (mentioned in a prior post) the Group A Skyline and the GTO Audi. Other cars that were outright banned were the F1 cars with ground effects, the Gp. B cars (outright ban in WRC after the death of Tiovenen at the Corsica Rally), the Gp. C cars above 3.5 L displacement, (the only Gp. "C" cars allowed to compete after the ban were cars that ran under the 3.5 L Formula, that is one of the reasons Mazda was able to win Le Mans), F1 Turbo powered cars, the Ford GT40 Mark IV was banned when the FIA changed the engine formula, post Le-Mans, to a limit of 350 CID (In response, many contend, to Fords victory at Le Mans that year).

What constitutes the term "ban" may be debated. A banned object, or car in this case, is a car that is no longer able to race due to a change in the rules. Thus any Gp C car, any F-1 car that does not meet today's F standards, any sports car that does not meet current FIA/WEC/IMSA standards, etc... especially for competition reasons (money, speed, advantage) can be considered a "banned" car for not meeting standards that forced it to the garage before its actual life expectancy was up.

On a side note: I have banned any SMS developed cars, hypercars, drift cars and any cars not devoted to racing to my personal ban list, thus those are also banned cars.