Discussion for real life track/autocross/rally/racing kart/etc. drivers

[panjandrum]

I know there are some of us here who have some degree of real life motor-sport experience. I started this thread in hopes that those of us with real life experience could share our opinions/thoughts regarding GT5. So if you have track, rally, autocross, racing kart, experience (or are a test-driver for an automotive manufacturer/magazine etc.), then please join in.

Also please include some details of your motor-sports experience so that all of us can know where the others are "coming from." My experiences with autocross/ice racing/race karting could be vastly different from a rally or track driver, for example.

My motor-sports experience:

I got involved in autocross very shortly after GT4 was released and have now raced 5 complete seasons with a local group which is very active and has some excellent drivers and teachers. I also ice-race and do some endurance kart racing with this same club. In terms of my performance I can honestly say that I've become excellent at these activities. This was a real surprise to me since I didn't start until my late 30s, but I'm constantly surprised regarding my own performance. Other than Karting, all my racing is "solo". I have no track experience. I am also much, much better at motor-sports in real life than I am or ever will be in any SIM. I'm one of those drivers who really "feels" the car well (I thought everyone did this, but apparently a lot of drivers don't. They are the ones you see spinning their MR2s all the time at autocross events because they can't feel the weight balance of the car very well.) Without the feedback an entire car provides, I have a hard time judging what's going on in SIMS, even though I use good FF wheels and enjoy racing SIMS a lot. So although I do have a few night online where I'm "in the zone", if you see me racing out there you can usually expect to see me finish middle of the pack (worse if I'm tired).

My daily drivers and motor-sports vehicles are all Rear engined, and include a classic Beetle (1968) and a Porsche 912e (one year vehicle, 1976). I also autocross a 1980 Porsche 911sc on a routine basis, which is owned by a family member who also runs autocross. I run in B stock, H stock and Vintage classes. My 912e is my year-round runner and winter-beater The Beetle looks like a garage queen but the suspension is tuned for autocross and it handles very well (steering ratios in these old cars is SLOW compared to a modern sports car though). Motors in all three cars are stock and unmodified (giving them around 46 horses, 86 horses, and 180 horses respectively when new).

I'm very much an RR guy. I vastly prefer the handling of cars with a rearward weight bias. (I haven't actually had the opportunity to drive an MR car, but I expect I would like many of them. I certainly like them in SIMs). My ideal car oversteers pretty aggressively with throttle lift and begins to understeer (or at least neutrally drift) when I get back on throttle. (My current favorite new car in GT5 is the Ferrari 512BB).

I have also been lucky enough to "guest drive" a handful of other cars at autocross events, including a Mini Cooper S, Subaru Legacy, etc.

For SIM racing I currently use a Fanatec wheel, but also have a G25 and a DFP.

So, here are my thought regarding notable GT5 strengths and weaknesses:

Strengths:

1) GT5 (and GT4) has an engine which truly makes the various cars feel unique. It does this vastly better than any other sim I've ever driven. When you drive a car in this sim it really makes you feel like you've climbed into that car. The accuracy is just excellent. The underlying physics engine may not be as sophisticated as a couple of the most advanced PC sims, but in the end GT4/5 still does a better job simulating the individual car personalities.

2) This is related but subtly different that the point above: GT4/5 reproduce the weight-balance of a car through the force-feedback far better than any other sim I've driven. Not only do the cars feel unique, you can tell via. the wheel almost exactly where that center-of-balance is for a particular car. Again, other sims also do this, but I've never encountered one which does it as well as GT does.

Weaknesses:

1) Unfortunately one thing neither GT4 or 5 do is model the feeling of understeer through the feedback in the wheel. This is something which almost all other sims DO and without it you are left having only audio and visual cues as to when the front of your car begins to lose grip. This, more than anything else, hampers my driving in the GT sims. Actually, it is pretty crippling to me, I really need to feel that understeer through the wheel to get my cornering speeds correct. As a result, I'm actually slower in the GT sims than in many others. I realize that this is something which is unique to each car model, and many cars have little or no steering feedback, but many cars do provide excellent feedback. In GT all the car simply give you zero indication in the FF wheel that the fronts have started to slide. (My Porsche for example, communicates through the wheel exactly how much front-end grip I have remaining.)

I would love to hear what others with real life motor-sports experience feel about GT5. What do you think the high-points and weaknesses are. Etc?

 

[lucag120]

my thoughts on karting: (i raced for 5 years)

I think that the kart physics in terms of handling are GREAT!!

BUT, PD ruined it by making the kart's weight too light and the engine too powerful.

In the game they have the yamaha S motor, and in Australia the weight of that kart+driver is around 140kg and these engines have about 15-20hp.

In the game, they have got the weight to be 85kg!!!! and 30-35HP!!!
Not realistic at all.

But i do enjoy the physics. The speed of these karts is more like a superkart.

I don't know why it struggles to hit the limiter on it's own and in the slipstream it hits it easily. I still think PD still have problems with aerodynamic modelling.

 

[panjandrum]

I think that the kart physics in terms of handling are GREAT!!

I was also very impressed with the kart handling model. I love how, when pushed to the limit and into an "all wheel drift" as you slide sideways across the tarmac you get that "hop hop hop" effect through the wheel just as you do in a real kart (well, at least in the karts I've driven). It feels very convincing.

The only slight criticism I have is that the brakes seem too stable. This is minor criticism though - I don't expect any sim to get everything exact, it just isn't possible. In the karts I've raced just looking too hard at the brake pedal during a turn will put you in a spin. Just blip the brake a little and "whoosh!" backwards you go. In situations where I absolutely positively have to brake in a turn while karting what I try to do is straighten the wheel for a split second, brake, then go back to turning. In GT5, you have to put the brake down and hold it there for about 1 second to initiate this same level of uncontrolled spin. How are the karts you raced in this regard?

 

[Hemily]

I'm not too impressed with some of the cars, but with 1000+ cars, it'd be hard to get them all right.

IRL, I do AutoX, and i don't do it in shiney sportscars or modified cars, but in stock family cars, mainly in a Volvo 240 wagon, hence my disapointment in that car in the game.

But other cars feel fine, like they'd be good cars to drive IRL, the 240, which is the car i have most experience with, is nothing like reality.

But overall, i'm pretty impressed with the game, some disapointments in how you can tune a standard car, not able to turbo a RB25DE R32 Skyline? bwuh?
not able to turbo the L24 240ZG or the L28 280Z?
compared to reality, that's plain silly, but the way they handle? that feels great at least, there's just details in tuning i wish were different.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Strengths: Can drive lots of different cars.

Weaknesses: Not a sim.

I will share my track/racing insight when they include the RT2000 and bikes in the game.

 

[RacingManiac]

I spent my college years building Formula SAE cars and spend the last 2 driving them. And I go out karting with some friends sometimes.

I like the Kart physics also, you can actually feel the caster jacking in those cars as you crank on the steering...

 

[panjandrum]

Weaknesses: Not a sim.

OK, but how about some examples? Which cars specifically do you feel aren't simulated properly?

As an example, the 911 I autocross feels spot-on nearly perfect when compared with the RR RUFs (although obviously I have much less power). It isn't a 100% comparison, but that's the closest I can get. The experience is super-accurate. Ditto the Subaru; handling in the real-life car vs. the similar car in GT4/5 is close to perfect. My unmodified Beetle also felt very close to the GT4 version of the Ghia (don't have one in GT5 yet). The Ghia should be slightly better with a slightly lower center of gravity, but otherwise a '68 Ghia and my '68 Beetle are essentially identical. My 912e also feels very close. It is a somewhat more neutral car than the RUFS in GT, but that's exactly as it should be since the E lacks a rear sway bar and has a more neutral center-of balance with the little 4 banger back there where a 6 is in a 911. So based on those experiences I would say that not only is this a sim, it is a pretty stonking good one.

On the other hand, PD can't even simulate something as utterly basic as the way a clutch works. NO PD, the clutch is NOT an on-off switch! And so yeah, things like that do make me wonder how much else they have managed to get wrong.

 

[AlexGTV]

I take part the last 5 years, with a local team, in a competition called "Drift Wars" in Greece. Our car is a tuned 310 PS Focus RS complete with weight reduction, rollcage and semislicks. The best thus far was our placing as 3rd in a competition.

GT5 does a great job communicating the weight distribution and shift of torque depending on the cituation. You can also tell better than anything I've played the threshold of traction. Whereas there are visual ques like suspension camber and audio ones like the wheels' screech, hands down what I enojy most is the communication of the car's condition through control, or lack of.

Weaknesses? Hmm, not really. But if I forget its a game and I wanted the most accurate representation, controls and in general it being a simulation to the bone, I'd say less stable brakes, more understeer when you're travelling in an arc and you smash the throttle, greater loss of speed in drifts, no chase camera obviously. Of course these are minor issues that could have ruined the game and made it miserable anyway, as you'd have to have a vastly superior FF wheel and pedals than what is available, and at which point going out and racing for real would be the best option than pretending that you are.

EDIT: Ι forgot the clutch. In its current state I'd rather not use it.

 

[Biggamehit]

I started playing this game back when GT1 came out. That is what got me into motorsports eventually. I started out with drag racing for a bit then moved onto auto-x and drifting exclusively. 10 years, lots of events later and I still play this game on my downtime. I do dabble in PC sims here and there but not nearly as much as GT. Motorsports outside of work is my life and im deep into it. I know many people in the industry as this is a small world really.

I have been playing with the g25 for about the last 2 years. switching to that open a new world to me. I use to D-pad drift a lot in GT3 and GT4 not so much in prologue. I'm still trying to learn to drift with my g25 which is frustrating because I do this for real. The snap over that you get sometimes when counter-steering gets to me. I'm starting to find the sweet spot of the G25 so its coming around. The car settings are not realistic at all and I would never do any of them to my real drift cars. the addition of a 1.5way or 2way would do more justice than an "adjustable diff". I however relate all of this to being great at Rock Band vs Reality if you will .... being good and one or the other just doesn't translate automatically lol.

One thing im very impressed with is some of the inputs that I would give my cars in reality transfers to the game very well. As I tell all of my friends.. this game and others alike are the closest you can get to the real thing.

---------
Washington DC SCCA member
Motorland Speedway member (Japan)

Cars:

89 KA-T Nissan 240sx

94 R33 GTS25-T

Pics and Video in my signature.

 

[P_908-3]

My background... I've been in and out of the Auto industry since '92. Started out as a mechanic for one of the leading race schools here in the US which netted me some cheeky track time. Also worked in retail sales, public relations, fleet management, as a journalist - and most recently as a test driver for one of the 'Big Three US' companies. Needless to say I've gotten to drive various tracks and a wide variety of tasty vehicles over the years. I've also made the pilgrimage to the Nürburgring 4 times and driven over 50 laps in very sorted vehicles from the lovely folks at rentracecar.de.

I've not played the game much as of yet so I don't have too much to add.... but I have experienced that damnable TG challenge with the Elise;-) Kaz the Elise is NOWHERE near that sketchy on track, period. Totally ridiculous.

Also the 'Ring's not quite right....seems too clean, slightly too narrow, not enough sense of elevation change and, most importantly, it's just too easy.

 

[99thompson]

I have had experience in TKM Extreme (karting), Sprint events and club level Saloon Car Racing. I am also very into my race sims and race online quite regular on the likes of GTR 2, rFactor and Race On.

My 1st gripe was when I entered my 1st kart challenge. Why have PD decided to use standing starts? Certainly in the UK at club and national level there is no such thing. Yes the karts on the game are clutch driven rather than direct drive but still this shouldn't mean a standing start. The only time I have ever seen standing starts are at public kart tracks with little low powered 200cc Honda 4 stroke engines, more commonly seen on garden equipment. Please point me towards a high level series that use standing starts as it might just be me that is ill educated.

Secondly, it annoys me that there is a lack of qualifying. This is such an important aspect of racing that it puzzles me to why they left it out. I get fed up of starting in the same spot over and over again. Pretty much all other racing titles manage it, why does the title claiming to be the Real Driving Simulator forget it?

The general feel of most FF cars I have driven isn't bad at all. It even compares to the feel I get from most PC titles too. It's the sound that bugs me, I am only at A-Spec Level 18 and already I have noticed so many blunders when it comes to engine note/sound, general engine character, the lack of VTEC crossover especially on B-Series engines and even the incorrect starter motor noises. As you can tell I'm very particular and my experiences so far has left a sour taste indeed.

Also, I have yet to understand the tyre indicators. It seems they have combined tyre wear and tyre temperature in one indicator. Spin an inside wheel up and it turns red for 1 second and then back to blue. I would like to see a tyres temperature in real life recover that quickly, and what happened to an individual indicator for each purpose?

Which brings me onto the HUD, why can't I switch it all off. In real life I don't know the G force, tyre info, bla bla bla, all I have is a pit board every time I cross the line. It just feels cluttered and makes a trip back to my PC titles a welcome relief.

I could go on, I have many issues with the game that I hope will be patched, but as it is the only game to have such a comprehensive car catalogue it's the reason I play it, I just hope PD fix the issues. If not I will just have to live with the fact it was produced for a console so what was I to expect.

However, on odd occasions GT5 has brought a smile to my face.

 

[peter_vod69]

The sense of understeer becomes very evident in the rally challenges, most particularly the way the steering goes numb when you push beyond the front tyre's threshold of lateral grip. The biggest gripe I had with Gran Turismo's handling in general was the sensation of the LSD effect, and the feeling of the rubber on the road. The LSD effect in Gt4 was non-existent, and the tyre feel through the steering was a bit numb. Those two issues have been addressed, to the extent where I have no real problem with the controls now.

FWIW I've got a Supra that I've tracked, and that I drive quite hard on the road (where appropriate) as well as having driven countless work-a-day hacks. And I learned to drive on dirt roads.

 

[R34EVO9]

I do AUTOX in my civic eg which is the same as an ek just lighter. And i feel like the fwd physics are done really well in the game. i use Advans in real life on 205-50-15 and the civic looks like its running 16s in the game so it feels pretty same except idk what rim size i have and what tire pressure im running.??? But other than that it feels the same as my car. It even has all the same mods i do..

Autox 2 years on and off

 

[Tommy_861]

Figured a thread like this would show eventually.

My experience is quite varied. I spent the better part of the past 12 years autocrossing, won a couple local championships but nothing too crazy. I was also the tech inspection chairman for many of those years. In 2003 I went to Skip Barber Racing School and got my competition license. I showed some vague potential so I spent most of 03-05 running with them on and off on tracks like Daytona, Pocono, Limerock, etc while hunting for sponsors to do a full season of them, Grand Am Cup, or Pro Formula Mazda. Unfortunately none of that panned out and I basically ran out of cash so I got back to AutoXing for a while. 2 years ago I took my 1993 Volkswagen Fox winter beater and turned it into a track car to run with the 24 Hours of Lemons, me and my team have run a few events with it and are looking forward to 4 events this year. In addition I do a lot of indoor karting with my friend whos a professional race driver, and 2 months ago I went to Team O'Neil rally school in NH for a couple days to learn rally driving to possibly take my Fox ice racing. I figure I picked it up pretty well as I was able to match my instructors times in a rally cross (they did give me 3 tries to their one however hehe).

I race GT5 with a Logitech DF Pro I bought for GT4 mounted to a racing seat from bobearlracing.com .

So as for how I feel about the game, I really do enjoy it and I would say the model is 95% there. But unfortunately my years of racing has honed a lot of skills of feeling the car from the seat of my pants that I don't have here. For example when me and my buddy go karting we can change the direction of the karts by just shifting our weight around in the seat. Other than that I think the karting is dead on. Overall though I have a hard time sometimes with the game because I am missing that bodily feedback I am conditioned to. As was mentioned here its hard sometimes to pick up that understeer feeling from the steering due to this as well. In the end it still does handle great and while I haven't driven most of these cars in real life, the handling seems on par with what I would expect (excluding the Lamborghini Murcielago, and that ridiculous Top Gear Lotus race). I haven't gotten too deep into the tuning options but overall it seems like what I would need is there and adjustable.

When it comes to rally I have made my thoughts known in other threads, Rally is just not right in this game. A big principle in rally is using the suspension weight transfer and the surface to change the direction of the car and slow the car down. This game just does not model it well at all and instead of being able to do a proper trail brake or pendulum turn using my skills, I just get a load of understeer. Not only that but the dirt is WAYYY too slippery, and snow, forget it! Its like driving on ice. Real life rally driving isn't like that and I hope this game doesn't turn people off to rally. Try playing Dirt 2, it models Rally very well.

In the end I am still really enjoying the game, all the different car types, the various challenges (the Grand Tour was great I like how it was so varied), and so on. I would recommend it to someone looking for a real simulator experience, just as long as they realize its not perfect, and real life has a lot more factors involved that I don't believe can be modeled by a video game without a huge very very expensive professional rig.

 

[Scaff]

I've not played the game much as of yet so I don't have too much to add.... but I have experienced that damnable TG challenge with the Elise;-) Kaz the Elise is NOWHERE near that sketchy on track, period. Totally ridiculous.

You may want to check the tyres fitted to the Elise in that TG challenge, its the equivalent of fitting the nastiest knock-off remoulds on an Elise and then taking it to the track. Something that would never happen in reality, and while its a bizarre move for the challenge, it doesn't mean the car is off.

Pick up any other Elise in GT5 and put some reasonable tyres on it an its a strong match for the Elise's I've driven on track and road.

Also the 'Ring's not quite right....seems too clean, slightly too narrow, not enough sense of elevation change and, most importantly, it's just too easy.

Have you been?

I only ask because I have and to be honest, while I would agree in regard to 'clean' and 'elevation change' (however no one has yet got that right), the track width is pretty much spot on. As for easy, well the lack of fear regarding ending up dead or with a big bill for Armco play a rather large factor in that.


Scaff

 

[Vortech347]

I like it quite a bit. I've taken what I've learned on the open track and used it in the game and it helps sigificantly.

I think when I go out next year I'll be even closer to being 9/10ths. Throttle control is hard for me because my car in real life, does want to kill me. 3000lbs with 550rwhp. It gets tricky. On the game this has helped me since I'm used to it in real life.

 

[Biggamehit]

Tommy I agree with you about the rally situation. I was rather annoyed with it.

 

[P_908-3]

You may want to check the tyres fitted to the Elise in that TG challenge, its the equivalent of fitting the nastiest knock-off remoulds on an Elise and then taking it to the track. Something that would never happen in reality, and while its a bizarre move for the challenge, it doesn't mean the car is off.

Pick up any other Elise in GT5 and put some reasonable tyres on it an its a strong match for the Elise's I've driven on track and road.

Ahhh ha...that would explain it;-) I'll pick up an Elise and give it a shot on some decent tires...it was more the total lack of grip I found unrealistic, not so much the dynamics (though I've only ever done a few laps on a circuit in an Elise so I'm hardly an expert on the subject.)

Have you been?

I only ask because I have and to be honest, while I would agree in regard to 'clean' and 'elevation change' (however no one has yet got that right), the track width is pretty much spot on. As for easy, well the lack of fear regarding ending up dead or with a big bill for Armco play a rather large factor in that.

Yes, as I stated earlier in my previous post, I've been four times and logged somewhere 'round 80ish laps. First couple times I drove in unsuitable rental cars (VW Passat 1.8T and Merc CLS350) and the last two times in a full on VLN prepped BMW 325Ci.

Prior to my previous post I hadn't unlocked the 'Ring, I'd only driven it in the Gullwing in the easy AMG challenge. I spent last night cracking the Intermediate challenge to unlock the 'Ring.... now that I've been able to lap it in a variety of cars with the options set 'properly' it's much more of a challenge. As to the width....I think it's a matter of perspective - I drive from the following view (since I'm not using a wheel I find it easier to get a sense of how the car's behaving) and I think that's what's giving me the impression it's too narrow. Watching a replay from the in-car camera it seems more right.

Christ I need a wheel! Wish I had the cash to shell out for that new Thrustmaster and a nice seat set-up:-(

 

[Rocket Punch]

So based on those experiences I would say that not only is this a sim, it is a pretty stonking good one.

I have nothing to say.

I am entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to not having to agree with me. If GT5 is a sim then NKPro, Iracing, and Rfactor is what? Alien virtual reality technology?

Lets talk about it again WHEN they decided to let us put air in the tires. 👍

 

[RC45]

I have nothing to say.

I am entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to not having to agree with me. If GT5 is a sim then NKPro, Iracing, and Rfactor is what? Alien virtual reality technology?

Lets talk about it again WHEN they decided to let us put air in the tires. 👍

Or when they let me alter my brake pad friction material or at least change the rotors and fluid

I cant help thinking GT5 is a step forward in the graphics and step sideways in physics and a step backwards in options, tuning and features.

Now if only the Enthusia crew coul dgo work for PD/Sony and get their physics into the GT graphics engine and then allowed rFactor style performance tuning and finish it off with Forza style liveries.

That would make fo rthe best of all worlds.

You could create you own trackday car mixes, put spondor logos on the sides, setup your car exactly the way you wanted and then finally after the race drool all over the replays visual beauty.

 

[panjandrum]

I have nothing to say.

I am entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to not having to agree with me. If GT5 is a sim then NKPro, Iracing, and Rfactor is what? Alien virtual reality technology?

But see, I started this thread exactly so that those of us with real experience could compare notes. We have plenty of infantile "arguments" in other threads already in which personal opinions are expressed as fact. Now, I have presented several examples of cars I have driven in motorsports and for which closely related or even identical models in GT4/5 seem to me to drive in a strikingly similar manner. Now, if you want to discuss this intelligently, what you need to do is explain what motorsport experience you have, and then explain why you don't see GT5 as a sim based on appropriate experiences. Otherwise what we have here is one person saying "the world is round because I can demonstrate this through experimentation", and another person saying "the world is flat because I say it is flat and if you point out that I might be incorrect oh well too bad you are still wrong because I say so."

So if you have real experience and real criticisms, please share them.

 

[panjandrum]

I'm not too impressed with some of the cars, but with 1000+ cars, it'd be hard to get them all right.

IRL, I do AutoX, and i don't do it in shiney sportscars or modified cars, but in stock family cars, mainly in a Volvo 240 wagon, hence my disapointment in that car in the game.

Great pic of the old Volvo. You will probably be happy to learn that the only driver in my classification (rear wheel drive) to beat me in last season's ice racing events did so in an old Volvo. I think it was even the same color as yours. BUT, he did only beat me once...

 

[panjandrum]

I ran through the final Karting special event on autumn ring yesterday and all I can say is WOW!!! Man they really got the karts spot on. The realism in the feedback, the sense of speed. Fantastic. Autumn ring is a much rougher course than the other ones, and more twisty. So it is a lot more like the track I've karted on most frequently. WOW! Love it.

 

[Revelation1115]

What force feedback settings do you guys use with the G27? Is it more realistic at 5 (default settings) or 10?

 

[familyvalues]

I autoX my mazda3 and honestly gt5p had helped me learn about breaking earlier and overall time trial events. I was excited when they had a mazda3 in it although it was an 03 instead of an 08 but thats trivial. Cockpit would have been nice, sounds nothing like a mazda3..handling is pretty good but the body roll is darn near non existent in the game.
I love gt5...taking my car and nascars around the ring and laguna seca...so much fun. I think I may fiddle around with the track maker to train myself to look ahead better for autox (bought the ps eye for head tracking) but not really sure its going to help me as much as it is just for fun.

 

[kmac540]

But see, I started this thread exactly so that those of us with real experience could compare notes. We have plenty of infantile "arguments" in other threads already in which personal opinions are expressed as fact. Now, I have presented several examples of cars I have driven in motorsports and for which closely related or even identical models in GT4/5 seem to me to drive in a strikingly similar manner. Now, if you want to discuss this intelligently, what you need to do is explain what motorsport experience you have, and then explain why you don't see GT5 as a sim based on appropriate experiences. Otherwise what we have here is one person saying "the world is round because I can demonstrate this through experimentation", and another person saying "the world is flat because I say it is flat and if you point put that I might be incorrect oh well too bad you are still wrong because I say so."

So if you have real experience and real criticisms, please share them.

EXACTLY...

Options don't help to quantify how much or how good of a simulator it is... I for one have seen first hand actual racing simulators (Virtual GT), and you can't tweak the brake pads, tire pressure, etc. Its just about purely recreating the driving / racing experience. I would of course love more adjustability and tuning options, but for only spending $500.00 (PS3, GT5, Driving Force GT) you can get a very close recreation of a professional grade simulator...

Worth every bit of sacrificing options and waiting 5+ years IMHO.

 

[Duke]

IRL, I do AutoX, and i don't do it in shiney sportscars or modified cars, but in stock family cars, mainly in a Volvo 240 wagon, hence my disapointment in that car in the game.

But other cars feel fine, like they'd be good cars to drive IRL, the 240, which is the car i have most experience with, is nothing like reality.

I have heard numerous reports that the GT4 model of the 240 wagon was actually modeled extremely overweight by accident, like maybe the pounds weight was input for kilograms or something similar. Since many of the standard cars appear to simply be unchanged GT4 models ported over, I would assume that this issue was not corrected. It does suck, I agree.

I've autocrossed for the past 4 years or so, my first event in my old '95 Neon ACR, then running my stock E46 325i on street tires, and halfway through this last season moving up to an SSM-class modified '96 Miata.

Overall I have found the physics in GT5 fairly good and communicative with some miscues. I only have a couple hundred miles under my belt so I haven't delved too deeply, but for one I will say that the Mk1 Golf GTi behaves very much like its real counterpart - a great momentum car that is easily adjusted with the throttle but which will burn off your speed in inside-front-tire smoke if you are harsh with the throttle. The Miata feels very much like they do stock, although my real MX-5 is far from stock. I'm looking forward to modding one up to match my car.

The cars I am really disappointed with are the midengine layouts. I've driven a few at autocross and on the open road, and they are tricky, but do not behave like in GT5. In my limited experience, in GT5, once you lose the back end, you can not get it back - you're going to spin or at least slide sideways to a stop. In real life you should be able to add a little throttle in conjunction with a quick countersteer, but that has no effect in GT, or only makes the slide worse.

 

[SCCAdeanRX-7]

Howdy all...... experiance... 10 years racing Rx-7s in soloII. 11 years modifying Rx-7s, as in everything bolted to the car... aslo spent a few years on the 1/4 mile and street racing before I got big into solo.... anywho I am typing with my phone at work so I will post a more detailed impressions piece but will say this since the first time I tries gt1 in demo form on a playstation demo disc, it has become my god.... pretty much changed what cars I bought.. rx7 first gen over 67 fastback just because how cheap it was to get a ton of g's and accel

 

[YellowG1]

The cars I am really disappointed with are the midengine layouts. I've driven a few at autocross and on the open road, and they are tricky, but do not behave like in GT5. In my limited experience, in GT5, once you lose the back end, you can not get it back - you're going to spin or at least slide sideways to a stop. In real life you should be able to add a little throttle in conjunction with a quick countersteer, but that has no effect in GT, or only makes the slide worse.

I would agree. I've driven karts, lots of canyon roads, and some track racing (oval). Also owned a Lancer Evo VIII, S2000, 350Z, and now a Camaro SS. Driven a bunch of others. Far from an expert, but not a 12 year old either. My quick impression of the good & bad:

The good
Karts are modelled pretty well. To me, the karts are the most fun part of the GT5.

In general, GT5 nails the business/art/science of driving fast... the need to have to concentrate on the course and the car.

GT5 does model the satisfaction of driving certain cars. It managed to capture how nice a Miata can be to drive.

I like the sensation of high speed, particularly in the cockpit view.

The bad
I would say GT5 over-penalizes oversteer. I'd say it's a little too easy to induce and too hard to correct.

The AI is bad. People don't brake-test going into corners on track days like the AI likes to do.

I would almost say front-wheel-drive cars handle too well. They seem easier to turn than I remember but it's been quite a while.

 

[familyvalues]

yellow next time youre AutoXing ride with a mazda 3's owner. The newer fwd mazda 3's back ends pretty much stay put. Ive done so really ugly driving in the 3 earlier in the year and the tail end has stayed planted...although in gt5 it doesnt seem to have the body roll I was expecting to see.