Do Cars Wear Out or Lose Performance Over Time?

[RacinLei]

You'd think pre-emptive oil changes would protect the engine instead of making it lose power faster...

Not sure about it, but it seems that changing oil is part of the algorythem. So i wouldnt drive to long with normal oil condition, im also not sure how much it effects the engine if you are not changing it.

 

[Pizzapants]

It's not the 4 engine overhauls that caused the degradation, its the mileage that you've put on the car (presuming that you did the overhauls when the game told you the engine status went to yellow). If you did the 4 overhauls with only limited mileage in between, then yes I reiterate everyone else's assessment that such was a stupid move.

Lol he did it after almost every race like a psycho. Not when it was yellow or even “normal”.

 

[Pizzapants]

.. FACT!

.. no matter what, and I mean no matter what, after every single race, first things first, oil change, car wash, my own superstition if you may.. but I do know one thing, everytime I get back in any of my cars I check it in the tune shop & they're always "excellent".. that's all I need to know & that's all that matters..


NW.

Permanent degradation is triggered by the number of oil changes you do. Changing the oil that often is actually speeding up the process.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Just a update my gr 10 which I have close to 7k miles has officially lost a hp down now to 669hp I sadly did a engine overhaul a little while back without knowing.

The team car which is brand new is at 670hp

 

[OldandSlow]

One hp? Why bother?

 

[MUC76]

One hp? Why bother?

It's always the last hp which is loosing the race. Same as the last beer causing headaches

Regards
M

 

[BobDx123]

Lots of really interesting experiences. I wonder if they take engine revolutions and the amount of time spent at redline into account or if its strictly oil changes…. I would think both of those would alter the life of an engine and cause repairs at an earlier mileage.

One hp? Why bother?

^^
So I experienced something strange recently and has occurred a few times now. While racing at the the same track the car felt ever so sluggish and wasn’t reaching markers throughout the coarse at times I regularly hit them. After exiting the race i noticed the oil change indicator had changed and my hp and torque fell ever so slightly; it did not change any performance markers in the car concerning acceleration but after changing the oil it was back to usual numbers in hp/torque and hit marker times as usual.

EDIT: When I say markers, I don’t only mean the timed ones, but the yellows and other spots I hit around the coarse like arches where I can track progress through the lap

I dont know if anyone else has experienced this. I wouldn’t expect so little to have an impact at all but I felt like it did. I’m talking fractions of a second at different markers that add up along the lap

 

[Pizzapants]

It's always the last hp which is loosing the race. Same as the last beer causing headaches

Regards
M

Except you don’t drink 669 beers per night. Pretty big difference.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

One hp? Why bother?

I know 1 hp lost its not a big deal but what if 1 week from now its 2hp then 3hp then 4hp then 5hp? and it gets to the point I have to sell my gr 10#8

Good thing is I don't grind with that car no more and now grind with the 787b which I now worry about.

 

[MUC76]

I know 1 hp lost its not a big deal but what if 1 week from its 2hp then 3hp then 4hp then 5hp? and it gets to the point I have to sell gr 10#8

Good thing is I don't grind with that car no more and now grind with the 787b which I now worry about.

Then we would have to grind for the grinding cars. So one should not grind with the 20M McLaren for example, because one would lose more credits than one could earn.

I think PD is not really consistent in their approach. With the argument of the "real driving simulator" they apply things like power loss due to mileage or inflation at the LCD.
But the game is not real. Nobody would try to collect 300 supercars in reality, especially nobody who has to work (grind) for that. But for some of us exactly this collecting thing is an important part of the game.
Also these People would like to finish stupid grinding at some point and of course they would like to have the cars staying performant.
It's a racing game and I would like to compare my lap times with a specific car even over months and years.

If the HP loss would really affect performance, we would have to share lap times always together with mileage and performance data...

Then the game would be completely crushed.

But thanks God. In a few weeks one can change the oil and grind with VR3.

The game would be great if PD just would get rid of the persons with the stupid ideas and would ask their developers and engineers.

Regards
M

 

[luv2drive]

Permanent degradation is triggered by the number of oil changes you do. Changing the oil that often is actually speeding up the process.

This is an interesting discussion. Are we sure oil changes also cause degradation? I'm having trouble fathoming why that would be the case. It would seem to me that if you keep clean oil in the engine all the time it would be better for it, not worse. IRL it's generally a budget/practicality thing, but I'm sure some car enthusiasts change the oil more frequently than an average driver might for just this reason.

Either way, back to the game, are you saying it's better to wait until the oil becomes "bad" (or is it "worn"?) before changing it? I've been changing mine when it drops to "Normal" and thinking nothing else of it.

 

[Arkseven]

This is an interesting discussion. Are we sure oil changes also cause degradation? I'm having trouble fathoming why that would be the case. It would seem to me that if you keep clean oil in the engine all the time it would be better for it, not worse. IRL it's generally a budget/practicality thing, but I'm sure some car enthusiasts change the oil more frequently than an average driver might for just this reason.

Either way, back to the game, are you saying it's better to wait until the oil becomes "bad" (or is it "worn"?) before changing it? I've been changing mine when it drops to "Normal" and thinking nothing else of it.

This whole thread got me confused.

I'm not sure about that either. Some things are still the same from GT5/6 and in those games oil changes didn't cause degradation.
Basically, in GT5/6 the only thing that could cause permanent loss of HP was mileage. Maintaining a good level of oil had no impact on engine deterioration.

I have a few cars on GT7 with a couple thousands kilometers and I feel it's the same thing. Engine and Chassi will change to "Normal" after 5.000km and permanent loss of performance starts at 10.000km.

I think it's better to share my experience so sorry for the wall below.

Spoiler

Oil has 4 levels - Good (green), Normal (light green), Worn (orange) and Bad (red).

• First level last for ~250km. The distance is not the same for all cars. Some can do 300km while others can only do 200km.
• Second level is betweem ~200-600km. Slighty loss of performance.
• Third level is between ~600-1500km. Gradual loss of HP and Torque.
• Finally, after ~1500km the car reaches the final level and it stays there until you bring it to GT Auto for an oil change.

I did a lot of races in Tokyo with the Cayman GT4, Corvette C7, R33 and Evolution V. Ths is my experience with them:

• Good oil provided the best lap times. I did sub-27 minutes with the C7, R33 and Evo.
• Normal oil was still good enough for a win, but I was about 1-2 seconds slower.
• Worn oil is enough to see a difference, especially when I couldn't reach top speed at the main straight of Tokyo. I was 4-5 seconds slower. Also, I do think there's a change in handling, but not a "direct" change. More like not getting used to a slower acceleration and speed.
• Bad oil is 7-10 seconds slower. Be a responsible owner and don't let you car reach this stage.

I did recorded my distances with both road and racing Vettes. Note that in the first pic, 574km is when the car start losing HP and Torque. 2nd and 3rd pic shows that you can lose performance and still be on the same level of wear:

and the road C7:

​

This is only a temporary loss of performance though.


Now the question is: Bad Oil speed up engine degradation?

After reaching 1.580km with my Corvette Gr.3 (last pic) I did A LOT of races with Bad Oil. Probably 1.000km. Engine and Chassi changed to Normal after 5.079km.


Unfortunately I don't have another Gr.3 to compare, but I do have 3 road cars above 5000km: C7, R33 and Evo 5. It's any different?

• First car: R33. I did my best to maintain Oil levels on this car. Always running on Good or Normal. After 5.042km the Engine and Chassi changed to Normal level.
• Second car: Evolution V. This was the opposite. I probably used this car for more than 2.000km with Bad Oil. Engine and Chassi changed to Normal after 5.030km.
• Third Car: Corvette C7. A mix of the two cars above - not well maintained, but also not abandoned. Engine and Chassi changed to Normal after 5.070km.

The distance to have Engine and Chassi changing from Good to Normal seems to be "fixed" for each car. Well, maybe there's an impact driving with Bad Oil, but looking at those distances, I'd say they're not significant.


On GT5/6, you would see loss of performance after 10.000km or 15.000km, depending on what car you're driving.
In GT7, Engine and Chassi reach Normal level after 5.000km and based on Tomahawks I've seen here, Engine and Chassi reach Worn level after 20.000km and they finally reach Bad level after 30.000km.

Between 5.000km to 10.000km, the Engine Overhaul option at GT Auto restores the car performance completely like it's brand new. After 10.000km there's a permament loss, about 1 HP less. From this point, Engine Overhaul will not restore the car HP back to it's original values. You can only do that by buying a new engine from the tune shop (if it's available).

I don't know how many HP you can lose from a high mileage car, but on GT5/6, you need to drive more than 200.000km to see a total loss of 5%. 200.000 KILOMETERS. That is a lot!

 

[luv2drive]

This whole thread got me confused.

I'm not sure about that either. Some things are still the same from GT5/6 and in those games oil changes didn't cause degradation.
Basically, in GT5/6 the only thing that could cause permanent loss of HP was mileage. Maintaining a good level of oil had no impact on engine deterioration.

I have a few cars on GT7 with a couple thousands kilometers and I feel it's the same thing. Engine and Chassi will change to "Normal" after 5.000km and permanent loss of performance starts at 10.000km.

I think it's better to share my experience so sorry for the wall below.

Spoiler

Oil has 4 levels - Good (green), Normal (light green), Worn (orange) and Bad (red).

• First level last for ~250km. The distance is not the same for all cars. Some can do 300km while others can only do 200km.
• Second level is betweem ~200-600km. Slighty loss of performance.
• Third level is between ~600-1500km. Gradual loss of HP and Torque.
• Finally, after ~1500km the car reaches the final level and it stays there until you bring it to GT Auto for an oil change.

I did a lot of races in Tokyo with the Cayman GT4, Corvette C7, R33 and Evolution V. Ths is my experience with them:

• Good oil provided the best lap times. I did sub-27 minutes with the C7, R33 and Evo.
• Normal oil was still good enough for a win, but I was about 1-2 seconds slower.
• Worn oil is enough to see a difference, especially when I couldn't reach top speed at the main straight of Tokyo. I was 4-5 seconds slower. Also, I do think there's a change in handling, but not a "direct" change. More like not getting used to a slower acceleration and speed.
• Bad oil is 7-10 seconds slower. Be a responsible owner and don't let you car reach this stage.

I did recorded my distances with both road and racing Vettes. Note that in the first pic, 574km is when the car start losing HP and Torque. 2nd and 3rd pic shows that you can lose performance and still be on the same level of wear:

and the road C7:

​

This is only a temporary loss of performance though.


Now the question is: Bad Oil speed up engine degradation?

After reaching 1.580km with my Corvette Gr.3 (last pic) I did A LOT of races with Bad Oil. Probably 1.000km. Engine and Chassi changed to Normal after 5.079km.


Unfortunately I don't have another Gr.3 to compare, but I do have 3 road cars above 5000km: C7, R33 and Evo 5. It's any different?

• First car: R33. I did my best to maintain Oil levels on this car. Always running on Good or Normal. After 5.042km the Engine and Chassi changed to Normal level.
• Second car: Evolution V. This was the opposite. I probably used this car for more than 2.000km with Bad Oil. Engine and Chassi changed to Normal after 5.030km.
• Third Car: Corvette C7. A mix of the two cars above - not well maintained, but also not abandoned. Engine and Chassi changed to Normal after 5.070km.

The distance to have Engine and Chassi changing from Good to Normal seems to be "fixed" for each car. Well, maybe there's an impact driving with Bad Oil, but looking at those distances, I'd say they're not significant.


On GT5/6, you would see loss of performance after 10.000km or 15.000km, depending on what car you're driving.
In GT7, Engine and Chassi reach Normal level after 5.000km and based on Tomahawks I've seen here, Engine and Chassi reach Worn level after 20.000km and they finally reach Bad level after 30.000km.

Between 5.000km to 10.000km, the Engine Overhaul option at GT Auto restores the car performance completely like it's brand new. After 10.000km there's a permament loss, about 1 HP less. From this point, Engine Overhaul will not restore the car HP back to it's original values. You can only do that by buying a new engine from the tune shop (if it's available).

I don't know how many HP you can lose from a high mileage car, but on GT5/6, you need to drive more than 200.000km to see a total loss of 5%. 200.000 KILOMETERS. That is a lot!

Well, you've clearly done a lot of research.

From this I'm going to conclude the following.

1) You proved that even normal oil causes a slight performance degradation vs. "Excellent" oil. Therefore, it's a good idea to change the oil any time it is not "Excellent".

2) There's no reason to believe that frequent oil changes accelerate engine wear

3) It make sense that driving for an extensive period with "bad" (aka "dirty") oil might degrade the engine faster - just like in real life.

Bottom line - the game is trying to model real life, and it isn't doing anything that's completely counter to that or common sense (at least as it relates to oil).

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Sorry for bring back this old thread put my main p1 gtr has now lost 3hp with only 3845 miles.

I'm really upset by this if this continues how many hp is it gonna lost when it has over 100k miles?

 

[Arkseven]

Sorry for bring back this old thread put my main p1 gtr has now lost 3hp with only 3845 miles.

I'm really upset by this if this continues how many hp is it gonna lost when it has over 100k miles?

The deterioration in GT7 is very similar to GT6, so I think it's safe to say you're going to loss 3% hp in ~100.00km and 5% around 200.000 km.