Do you believe in God?

[XoravaX]

Think about this: If guns were made to kill people, and the governments of the world purchase and use more guns than anyone else, then is the government the #1 killer of people? Why have a government in that case?

It's pretty close with religion, but not enough; you can use it as a tool for crimes. Religion itself isn't bad (after all, Christianity emphasises mercy and rightfulness for example), but the ignorant people who can be fooled by others to commit crimes in the name of religion.

As far as there being a God, either there is or there isn't. Why waste life living in fear? Why waste life denying people of rights you would not want denied for yourself just because a book told you to? There is a major lack of empathy in religion, of putting yourself in another person's shoes.

Indeed, scientifically there either is or isn't, it's not sure.

Does God have to be feared though? In the New Testament he seems to have calmed down quite a bit, don't you think?
And of course, you don't have to believe in the Bible to believe in God.

 

[Exorcet]

Just look at how great these governments have treated people in the last few thousand years.

Yeah, it's pretty close with religion; you can use it as a tool for crimes. Religion itself isn't bad

I'd say it's arguable. Most religious people aren't any kind of threat of all, but I don't see any positives in religion while I do see lot of potential negatives in getting people to cling to faith so strongly that they can deny logic.

 

[fitftw]

^ I like how you show a group of savages and then some people boating in a most-likely polluted body of water...How about showing the genocides and horrible acts committed by government? Your pictures are very one-sided.

Religion = Government as far as I'm concerned. Both are always used for evil eventually.

 

[Exorcet]

Your pictures are very one-sided.

I suppose it balances out with your comments. Without some kind of organization, we wouldn't have very much that we have today. Governments aren't perfect but they do stabilize society and allow for most of the things we enjoy today. Cities, laws, protection of rights and property, etc.

Religion = Government as far as I'm concerned. Both are always used for evil eventually.

And if the evil is outweighed by the good, does that not matter?

 

[Swara]

^ I like how you show a group of savages and then some people boating in a most-likely polluted body of water...How about showing the genocides and horrible acts committed by government? Your pictures are very one-sided.

Religion = Government as far as I'm concerned. Both are always used for evil eventually.

Wow. Just...wow. You're an atheist?

 

[McLaren]

As long as religion exists, there will be extremists.

I'm willing to bet there are a few Buddhist extremists out there, as weird as that sounds. Some people take their beliefs/faiths a bit too seriously. That's why I have no faiths or beliefs.

Because some people take their beliefs/faiths too seriously is why you have none?

Why let their actions affect yours?

 

[Encyclopedia]

As long as religion exists, there will be extremists.

I'm willing to bet there are a few Buddhist extremists out there, as weird as that sounds. Some people take their beliefs/faiths a bit too seriously. That's why I have no faiths or beliefs.

So you are an atheist then.

 

[basherblake]

I believe in all 7billion gods walking this planet right now. IMO a religion shouldn't make you feel guilty about doing whatever feels naturally human, provided it doesn't have a negative impact, directly or indirectly, on another person.
Relax, enjoy living, follow your dreams and for gods sake, let's have a game of GT5!!!!

 

[Azuremen]

^ I like how you show a group of savages and then some people boating in a most-likely polluted body of water...How about showing the genocides and horrible acts committed by government? Your pictures are very one-sided.

Religion = Government as far as I'm concerned. Both are always used for evil eventually.

You are such a sad view of the world and people. You certainly have faith in the inability for any collective body to do good apparently, contrary to the fact that these bodies have generally improved the standard of living continuously.

Religion doesn't drive wars nearly as much as resources and politics. It is used to rally the people at times, and you certainly don't need religion to have extremists. I mean, your views qualify as fairly extreme, bordering on delusional paranoia, which isn't much better than the extremists at the other end.

 

[fitftw]

You're all right. I have no faith in the goodness of humanity. In large groups, the herd mentality takes over and people do things they never would on their own. This leads to things like the Holocaust where people are "just following orders" and everyone else standing around going "I never saw this coming!" Or "How could this have happened here?!" I foresee the same thing happening in America in my lifetime.

No amount of stability/goodness brought forth by the government could ever cancel out the perpetual mass murders, bombings, genocides etc...

"He who would trade liberty for temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

And I am not atheist. Atheists do not say things like "There could be a God." They would say "There is no God." I don't like labels. You can label me an agnostic atheist if you MUST, but I'd rather you didn't.

 

[Encyclopedia]

And I am not atheist. Atheists do not say things like "There could be a God." They would say "There is no God." I don't like labels. You can label me an agnostic atheist if you MUST, but I'd rather you didn't.

You'd be surprised what atheists would say. I'm atheist but I'd say there could be a god, however I see it as incredibly unlikely.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods. So if you lack that, then you are atheist, whether you like it or not.

 

[niky]

I see a lot of comments on the bible and slavery so I will offer this
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/02/02/feedback-bible-slavery

So defining a bondservant as someone in a "lifetime employment contract" makes it better? Right. Next.

Forgive me if I seem like an apologist for religion, but religion isn't the sole reason for going to war. There's also resources.

Actually, religion is usually the excuse. The real reason is always wealth or power. Religion serves as a tool, but other dictators and despots have found other tools... Patriotism, Nazism, Communism...

One thing that's bugging me about Christianity is the entire story of Noah's Ark. It simply makes zero sense to me.

Blame the Babylonians. They're the ones who created the Ark Myth. The Hebrews apparently copy-pasted it from the Babylopedia article.

That's why I have no faiths or beliefs.

Yes you do. You may not know it, but you worship at the altar of Existential Nihilism. I'd suggest you study Sartre, but that is probably not a healthy thing for you to do.

No amount of stability/goodness brought forth by the government could ever cancel out the perpetual mass murders, bombings, genocides etc...

And yet, here we are, a bunch of men not forced to forage fifteen hours a day for food, not conscripted into armed service by fascist governments, and not threatened with immediate death by flood, famine, fire, foe or fo-llution, sitting in our secure, temperature-controlled domiciles, having a civil theological debate over a communications network spanning the globe.

A communications network, that, incidentally, has helped enable people to overthrow dictators, steer the course of elections and expose governmental injustice.

Guess there really is no help for the world, huh?

Have we built the shrine to Famine yet? And who's in charge of buying 5000 white robes with the GTP logo on them?

The white robes don't get the logo. Once you've passed the third-level life audit, you get the purple robe with the GTP logo, praise Xenu.

 

[Azuremen]

You're all right. I have no faith in the goodness of humanity. In large groups, the herd mentality takes over and people do things they never would on their own. This leads to things like the Holocaust where people are "just following orders" and everyone else standing around going "I never saw this coming!" Or "How could this have happened here?!" I foresee the same thing happening in America in my lifetime.

It sounds like someone sat down and taught you only the horrible things in history books. The Holocaust was pushed forward by a single sick individual for example, it wasn't endorsed by the majority of Germany.

Of what you say about mob mentality was true, we'd never had amounted to anything resembling current civilization.

No amount of stability/goodness brought forth by the government could ever cancel out the perpetual mass murders, bombings, genocides etc...

Minus the millions upon millions of lives that have been saved by modern medicine and agriculture.

No wonder you are depressed, all you choose to see is the negative in the world.

"He who would trade liberty for temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

Please elaborate on how you perceive this quote. I don't want to make any assumptions about why you just put this up.

And I am not atheist. Atheists do not say things like "There could be a God." They would say "There is no God." I don't like labels. You can label me an agnostic atheist if you MUST, but I'd rather you didn't.

But you are? It just sounds like you are paranoid beyond belief in belonging to any "group" at all. Is this because you are afraid it will just make you part of the "herd" and your "clear" sight of the world will be lost in the "herd mentality?"

EDIT:

Yes you do. You may not know it, but you worship at the altar of Existential Nihilism. I'd suggest you study Sartre, but that is probably not a healthy thing for you to do.

I've been thinking this since his first post, but also refraining from it for the same reason

 

[DK]

You're all right. I have no faith in the goodness of humanity. In large groups, the herd mentality takes over and people do things they never would on their own. This leads to things like the Holocaust where people are "just following orders" and everyone else standing around going "I never saw this coming!" Or "How could this have happened here?!" I foresee the same thing happening in America in my lifetime.

No amount of stability/goodness brought forth by the government could ever cancel out the perpetual mass murders, bombings, genocides etc...

"He who would trade liberty for temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

And I am not atheist. Atheists do not say things like "There could be a God." They would say "There is no God." I don't like labels. You can label me an agnostic atheist if you MUST, but I'd rather you didn't.

Speaking of those who would rather not be labelled as such, a survey carried out in Ireland showed that only 92% of those who claimed to be Catholic believed in God, as opposed to the 100% you would expect.

 

[homeforsummer]

Speaking of those who would rather not be labelled as such, a survey carried out in Ireland showed that only 92% of those who claimed to be Catholic believed in God, as opposed to the 100% you would expect.

They're just in it for the free wine on Sundays

 

[Kingland093]

Speaking of those who would rather not be labelled as such, a survey carried out in Ireland showed that only 92% of those who claimed to be Catholic believed in God, as opposed to the 100% you would expect.

well then obviously that 8% isn't Catholic

 

[MatskiMonk]

well then obviously that 8% isn't Catholic

or they were drunk.

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/22954796.jpg

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

They're just in it for the free wine on Sundays

Dude, I was dragged to the ancient rituals of forgotten civilisations until I was 12.
When I realised only the priest gets to drink the wine, and maybe those butt huggers that help him throw out the crackers.

Massive dissapointment.

 

[Joel]

Dude, I was dragged to the ancient rituals of forgotten civilisations until I was 12.
When I realised only the priest gets to drink the wine, and maybe those butt huggers that help him throw out the crackers.

Massive dissapointment.

I dunno, whenever I went to church, everyone over around 14-15 got to have wine with communion. I never got wine though, by the time I was old enough to have wine, we stopped going to church

 

[DK]

well then obviously that 8% isn't Catholic

It goes further: 62% of Irish Catholics don't believe in transubstantiation.

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

It goes further: 62% of Irish Catholics don't believe in transubstantiation.

Alot of old people are devout catholics still.
Its a little scary, whenever I end up in a church for a christening, baptism or funeral, to see them chanting & reciting their prayers etc.

I feel like I'm surrounded by lunatics, in a way it's a little cool to witness the last generations of this barbaric cult of human sacrifice practicing their customs.

Almost like going back in time, hundreds of years.

 

[Grand Prix]

I remember going to my younger nephew's baptism a few years ago. Had no idea what to do in the rituals, and it was incredibly awkward, so I just sat on the bench most of the time.

 

[niky]

well then obviously that 8% isn't Catholic

Yes they are. In the Catholic Church, you get baptized soon after birth.

As with most religions, it's opt-out rarher than opt-in. If laws were passed forbidding parents from choosing their child's religion, then the worldwide subscription rate would drop... badly.

 

[fitftw]

As with most religions, it's opt-out rarher than opt-in. If laws were passed forbidding parents from choosing their child's religion, then the worldwide subscription rate would drop... badly.

It needs to, and one day it will. Maybe not in our lifetime, but eventually parents will come to their senses and stop forcing their kids into things when they have no say in the matter. Or they won't. Being born Jewish, I was circumcised at just 8 days old, and to this day I am upset at my parents for it.

 

[Kingland093]

Its a little scary, whenever I end up in a church for a christening, baptism or funeral, to see them chanting & reciting their prayers etc.

I feel like I'm surrounded by lunatics, in a way it's a little cool to witness the last generations of this barbaric cult of human sacrifice practicing their customs.

Almost like going back in time, hundreds of years.

Seriously? You think Christians are barbaric and that this is the last generation of them?

 

[fitftw]

Seriously? You think Christians are barbaric and that this is the last generation of them?

They have known to be barbaric. See the Crusades, and Salem witch trials etc...No this is probably not the last generation of them unfortunately.

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

Seriously? You think Christians are barbaric and that this is the last generation of them?

Benefiting from the torture & murder of an innocent person?
Thats barbaric. (and only one example)

I said last generations, I mean the last few.
Maybe 10 more generations tops.

 

[McLaren]

If you think you're viewing the last generations of Christianity, then you're assuming it's going to "die out" in the next 60-80 years. I highly doubt that & you seem to doubt it to some degree as well if you still think it has 200 years left at the most, which is far from you or me, or any of us viewing the "last" generations of it.

 

[ScouserInExile]

Benefiting from the torture & murder of an innocent person?
Thats barbaric. (and only one example)

I said last generations, I mean the last few.
Maybe 10 more generations tops.

So only a couple of hundred years, then?

Thing is, if you sit outside a church on a Sunday, you'll see a huge age range of people who attend. People in every stage of life go to church, not just the old or the young who're being made to go. I was more than a touch surprised by this.

 

[XoravaX]

Speaking of those who would rather not be labelled as such, a survey carried out in Ireland showed that only 92% of those who claimed to be Catholic believed in God, as opposed to the 100% you would expect.

Yeah, in Finland about 80% of the population are members of Christian churches, but only about 45% of the population believes in God's existence (though around 40% said they are not sure).

Yes, Buddhism doesn't teach you that God will punish you if you're homosexual etc...

Does Christianity either?

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If you imply this doesn't mean that it surpasses the Old Testament law, see it in other words:

And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

It is up to you if you keep homosexuals worse as a Christian. God doesn't punish homosexuals according to the Old Testament either, it should have been done by the people - instead as a Christian it is up to you, would you punish yourself in such a situation?

The thing that bugs me with atheists is that they insist on that Christianity uses the Old Testament as its base of ethics and laws. Even though the Great Commandment orders otherwise. The books are called The Old Testament and The New Testament for a reason.

Benefiting from the torture & murder of an innocent person?
Thats barbaric. (and only one example)

Who himself decided to die in such a way in the hands of Jews and Romans (non-Christians) to save those who believe in him? Remember that Jesus himself is God himself born on Earth according to Christianity.

A close analogy: if a soldier saves his nation by letting himself be tortured and executed (instead if eg. telling crucial information to the enemy), is his nation barbaric then? His death may be barbaric, but the barbarians are those who kill him, not those whom he saved.

That argument of yours is pretty poor I'd say - purposeful (?) misunderstanding makes never for a good argument.