Do you believe in God?

[Spurgy 777]

£4.52...Monkeys and humans both evolved from a common primate ancestor.

Are you giving yourself a penny every time someone says we've evolved from monkeys?

 

[zzz_pt]

If God exists then He is the Creator.
If He is the Creator He created everything.
If He created everything, then everything works according to the way He created His Creation.
Therefore what is Morally right is Morally right because God.

And this is self evident.

Apart the nonsense Danoff already pointed out, you're basically saying that what is moral is moral because god says so OR because morality i

How is that different from the first hypothesis of the Euthiphro dilema?

1. If he is the creator he created everything (not really)
2. Good and Evil exists.
3. God created good and evil.
4. God is (at best) amoral.

Isiah 45:7 would be a nice bible verse to insert here. ^^

I guess you're just inventing your god.

It looks to me that you're a deist. If you're a deist why do you think morality cames from god?

 

[DK]

Absolutely I do. One look at the complexity of the universe we live in and the complexity of all life, especially human beings should be enough proof that something far more complex than us created us and I don't buy into the argument that we evolved from primates, otherwise why would we still have monkeys, they would all be humans now.

I don't buy into the argument that we humans were created by an omniscient being, because an omniscient being would certainly know the risks of giving the oesophagus and the windpipe the same opening. And don't get me started on the appendix...

 

[Danoff]

I don't buy into the argument that we humans were created by an omniscient being, because an omniscient being would certainly know the risks of giving the oesophagus and the windpipe the same opening. And don't get me started on the appendix...

That's part of the game. Every time your creation loses you have a harder time making the next one because you're too drunk. Eventually your creatures start ending up with really weird stuff, like a foot coming out of their head and sex organs right next to waste excretion.

 

[zzz_pt]

 

[Hun200kmh]

Oh dear, the walls of text starting to grow.

I won't reply in that manner, neither the time nor the will to do it.

So, in short, and this to Danoff: You are obviously missing the point about what GOD means. There's no buddy, there's no race to create stuff. Again, this isn't Marvel or the DC Universe we are talking about. This thread is not about the belief in spiritual powerful beings and what their possible nature (and deeds) might be. This thread, probably because the OP, while trying to ridicule the YES answer, unwillingly defined what he was asking, is about the belief in the Existence of God Almighty. Now, you try to downgrade and ridicule that notion at will, you won't be however able to erradicate it from the question or from the debate.

About my willingness to consider alternatives to the existence of God I will just say you know nothing about that, past or present. I will say, however, that the dogmatic speech in this thread is not an exclusive of the YES camp, and that's me being polite.

Finally, about God and stoning of infidels and homosexuals, you may try to once again downgrade the discussion of God's existence to what some religions teach. Do it at will if it helps whatever you are trying to say about those religions, but again I say, that won't help you in a discussion about the existence of God.

Now, onto zzz_pt: If everything is God's Creation, to ask if morality is God's intent is futile. Of course it is, as everything else.

 

[zzz_pt]

Now, onto zzz_pt: If everything is God's Creation, to ask if morality is God's intent is futile. Of course it is, as everything else.

As immorality. That was the point.

 

[Duke]

If God exists then He is the Creator.
If He is the Creator He created everything.
If He created everything, then everything works according to the way He created His Creation.
Therefore what is Morally right is Morally right because God.

And this is self evident.

And what happens if the IF clause is negative?

 

[Hun200kmh]

As immorality. That was the point.

Of course. Darkness is the absence of light.

And what happens if the IF clause is negative?

Not sure if there's something more obscure to your question that I am not getting, but if there's no God there's no creator to create everything that works according to the way the non-creation was non-created and therefore what is morally right is not morally right because of God, and that is also self evident.

Right?

 

[Danoff]

So, in short, and this to Danoff: You are obviously missing the point about what GOD means.

You've assumed a great deal about the nature of "GOD". None of which you have any rational basis to assume.

There's no buddy, there's no race to create stuff.

Really? How do you know this?

This thread is not about the belief in spiritual powerful beings and what their possible nature (and deeds) might be. This thread, probably because the OP, while trying to ridicule the YES answer, unwillingly defined what he was asking, is about the belief in the Existence of God Almighty. Now, you try to downgrade and ridicule that notion at will, you won't be however able to erradicate it from the question or from the debate.

Yes, I understand that you want to limit the discussion to a single being that is capable of, and responsible for, everything. To limit the discussion to that one concept is arbitrary.

About my willingness to consider alternatives to the existence of God I will just say you know nothing about that, past or present. I will say, however, that the dogmatic speech in this thread is not an exclusive of the YES camp, and that's me being polite.

Citation required.

Finally, about God and stoning of infidels and homosexuals, you may try to once again downgrade the discussion of God's existence to what some religions teach. Do it at will if it helps whatever you are trying to say about those religions, but again I say, that won't help you in a discussion about the existence of God.

Just making sure we're not talking about the God of a vast swath of humanity, but instead we're talking about your extremely narrow and arbitrary notion of the nature of god.

 

[zzz_pt]

Of course. Darkness is the absence of light.

... and cold is the absence of heat.


That doesn't have anything to do with morality. Objects aren't moral or immoral. Actions and intentions are. And actions and intentions aren't objects. Did god created actions and intentions?

If god also created our actions, they aren't absent of anything. There are moral actions and immoral actions. How can you expect that argument from light to be applied to morality?


The following question is why would god create a universe where darkness, cold, evil and imorality could exist?

 

[Hun200kmh]

Just making sure we're not talking about the God of a vast swath of humanity, but instead we're talking about your extremely narrow and arbitrary notion of the nature of god.

I will quote wikipedia on the meaning of GOD.


God is often conceived as the Supreme Being and principal object of faith.[1] The concept of God as described bytheologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power),omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. In theism, God is the creator and sustainer of the universe, while in deism, God is the creator, but not the sustainer, of the universe. Monotheism is the belief in the existence of one God or in the oneness of God. In pantheism, God is the universe itself. In atheism, God is purported not to exist, while deemed unknown or unknowable within the context of agnosticism. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers have developed arguments for and against the existence of God.[2]

There are many names for God, and different names are attached to different cultural ideas about God's identity and attributes. In the ancient Egyptian era of Atenism, possibly the earliest recorded monotheistic religion, this deity was calledAten,[3] premised on being the one "true" Supreme Being and Creator of the Universe.[4] In the Hebrew Bible and Judaism, "He Who Is," "I Am that I Am", and the tetragrammaton YHWH are used as names of God, while Yahweh, and Jehovah are sometimes used in Christianity as vocalizations of YHWH. In Judaism, it is common to refer to God by the titularnames Elohim or Adonai, the latter of which is believed by some scholars to descend from the Egyptian Aten.[5][6][7][8][9] In Islam, the name Allah, "Al-El," or "Al-Elah" ("the God") is used, while Muslims also have a multitude of titular names for God. In Hinduism, Brahman is often considered a monistic deity.[10] Other religions have names for God, for instance, Baha in the Bahá'í Faith,[11] Waheguru in Sikhism,[12] and Ahura Mazda in Zoroastrianism.[13]

The many different conceptions of God, and competing claims as to God's characteristics, aims, and actions, have led to the development of ideas of Omnitheism, Pandeism,[14][15] or a Perennial philosophy, wherein it is supposed that there is one underlying theological truth, of which all religions express a partial understanding, and as to which "the devout in the various great world religions are in fact worshipping that one God, but through different, overlapping concepts or mental images of him."[16]

... and cold is the absence of heat.


That doesn't have nothing to do with morality. Objects aren't moral or immoral. Actions and intentions are. And actions and intentions aren't objects. Did god created actions and intentions?

If god also created our actions, they aren't absent of anything. There are moral actions and immoral actions. How can you expect that argument from light to be applied to morality?


The following question is why would god create a universe where darkness, cold, evil and imorality could exist?

It is my belief that God created all, and therefore also the beings capable of actions and intentions. And that actions and intentions belong to the spiritual world, not to the physical one. And that the spiritual world is the one that allows us glimpses of God. And that the spiritual world is based in the notions of good and bad, therefore the light/darkness analogy. And that then leads us to the questions regarding our own free will that allows us the good and the bed. Without that free will there would be no good and no bad, because there would be no choice. And it is the choice capability that brings morality into our life. And therefore immorality too.

 

[Blkout]

Good for you.

First that's conjecture not fact, and secondly it illustrates a massive lack of understanding of the evidence we do have.

A statement only made by those either ignorant of how evolution actually works or those unwilling to understand it. That however is a discussion for another (very large) thread.

Awesome dude, so obviously you believe you are God then because apparently your OPINION holds more weight than anyone else's. I didn't post in this thread to debate. The thread title asks a simple question, do you believe in God to which I replied and why. I realize my opinion is a belief and one which obviously you and many other won't share but just because you're staff on this forum doesn't make your opinion carry any more weight or make it any more right. Grow up.

£4.52...Monkeys and humans both evolved from a common primate ancestor.

Sure and we all evolved from a single cell organism. You could go on and on if you believe in the theory of evolution. Still doesn't really explain if we evolved from a current ancestor how humans ended so much more evolved and intelligent than monkeys. Are monkey's just ignorant humans with bad genes that failed to make it to the human gene pool? Don't get me wrong, I do believe in VERY MINOR changes in evolution over thousands of years, every species of life evolves very slightly but not like the difference between humans and monkeys though.

 

[zzz_pt]

It is my belief that God created all, and therefore also the beings capable of actions and intentions. And that actions and intentions belong to the spiritual world, not to the physical one. And that the spiritual world is the one that allows us glimpses of God. And that the spiritual world is based in the notions of good and bad, therefore the light/darkness analogy. And that then leads us to the questions regarding our own free will that allows us the good and the bed. Without that free will there would be no good and no bad, because there would be no choice. And it is the choice capability that brings morality into our life. And therefore immorality too.

How do you reconcile your belief in free will and at the same time in a god that is omniscient?



If the future is undecided (such as humans having free will), God cannot perfectly know the future. Therefore God is not omniscience.

 

[Blkout]

Oh dear...

I suggest maybe you read up on Evolution. Considering it is FACT and does not require "buying in to", it would be wise in knowing a little about it before arguing against it.

Let me ask you this. If Americans are descended from Europeans, why are there still Europeans?

In any case, we didn't evolve from primates.

Are you implying that Americans and Eurpoeans are drastically different in their evolution and intelligence? Poor example you chose I'm afraid.

And DQuan, @Famine disagrees with you.

 

[Danoff]

I will quote wikipedia on the meaning of GOD.


God is often conceived as the Supreme Being and principal object of faith.[1] The concept of God as described bytheologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power),omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. In theism, God is the creator and sustainer of the universe, while in deism, God is the creator, but not the sustainer, of the universe. Monotheism is the belief in the existence of one God or in the oneness of God. In pantheism, God is the universe itself. In atheism, God is purported not to exist, while deemed unknown or unknowable within the context of agnosticism. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers have developed arguments for and against the existence of God.[2]

There are many names for God, and different names are attached to different cultural ideas about God's identity and attributes. In the ancient Egyptian era of Atenism, possibly the earliest recorded monotheistic religion, this deity was calledAten,[3] premised on being the one "true" Supreme Being and Creator of the Universe.[4] In the Hebrew Bible and Judaism, "He Who Is," "I Am that I Am", and the tetragrammaton YHWH are used as names of God, while Yahweh, and Jehovah are sometimes used in Christianity as vocalizations of YHWH. In Judaism, it is common to refer to God by the titularnames Elohim or Adonai, the latter of which is believed by some scholars to descend from the Egyptian Aten.[5][6][7][8][9] In Islam, the name Allah, "Al-El," or "Al-Elah" ("the God") is used, while Muslims also have a multitude of titular names for God. In Hinduism, Brahman is often considered a monistic deity.[10] Other religions have names for God, for instance, Baha in the Bahá'í Faith,[11] Waheguru in Sikhism,[12] and Ahura Mazda in Zoroastrianism.[13]

The many different conceptions of God, and competing claims as to God's characteristics, aims, and actions, have led to the development of ideas of Omnitheism, Pandeism,[14][15] or a Perennial philosophy, wherein it is supposed that there is one underlying theological truth, of which all religions express a partial understanding, and as to which "the devout in the various great world religions are in fact worshipping that one God, but through different, overlapping concepts or mental images of him."[16]

That, very broad, notion of God definitely includes the possibility of a creationist drinking game (and I'm pretty sure we're losing). The part where the notion of God is restricted to the sole and total creator of everything is a much more narrow description.

It is my belief that God created all, and therefore also the beings capable of actions and intentions. And that actions and intentions belong to the spiritual world, not to the physical one. And that the spiritual world is the one that allows us glimpses of God. And that the spiritual world is based in the notions of good and bad, therefore the light/darkness analogy. And that then leads us to the questions regarding our own free will that allows us the good and the bed. Without that free will there would be no good and no bad, because there would be no choice. And it is the choice capability that brings morality into our life. And therefore immorality too.

...and so it is your belief, that God created an arbitrary morality for us to follow.

 

[DQuaN]

Are you implying that Americans and Eurpoeans are drastically different in their evolution and intelligence? Poor example you chose I'm afraid.

And DQuan, @Famine disagrees with you.

I didn't imply anything of the sort.

Apologies, I should have said we didn't evolve from monkeys etc.

 

[Scaff]

Awesome dude, so obviously you believe you are God then because apparently your OPINION holds more weight than anyone else's.

I didn't post opinion or belief.

I didn't post in this thread to debate. The thread title asks a simple question, do you believe in God to which I replied and why.

And I am free to reply to than.

I realize my opinion is a belief and one which obviously you and many other won't share but just because you're staff on this forum doesn't make your opinion carry any more weight or make it any more right.

I didn't claim my opinion carried more weight (and it has nothing to do with me being staff - a chip you would do well to lose), I didn't post a belief.

Grow up.

Cut the attitude.

 

[Jet Badger]

Sure and we all evolved from a single cell organism. You could go on and on if you believe in the theory of evolution. Still doesn't really explain if we evolved from a current ancestor how humans ended so much more evolved and intelligent than monkeys.

It does. Go read a book.

Are monkey's just ignorant humans with bad genes that failed to make it to the human gene pool?

Or are ignorant humans just monkeys with bad genes that failed to make it to the human gene pool?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in VERY MINOR changes in evolution over thousands of years, every species of life evolves very slightly but not like the difference between humans and monkeys though.

Surely even by your logic "minor differences over thousands of years" add up to "big differences over billions of years"?

 

[dddsprayshop]

If God exists then He is the Creator.
If He is the Creator He created everything.
If He created everything, then everything works according to the way He created His Creation.
Therefore what is Morally right is Morally right because God.

And this is self evident.

This^, i like this, no quotes from some mortal bible writings.

If He is the Creator He created everything.

This ^ is another reason i can't believe.
If "He" created everything, then "He" created himself. "And the first that god created was himself".
Like "god" is created out of nothing, would make me think, "god" is nothing.
That's what i now think.

And why is "god" a "HE"?
In writings this "god" is always titled as "him" or "he" or "his" as in Male.

Awesome dude, so obviously you believe you are God then because apparently your OPINION holds more weight than anyone else's. I didn't post in this thread to debate. The thread title asks a simple question, do you believe in God to which I replied and why. I realize my opinion is a belief and one which obviously you and many other won't share but just because you're staff on this forum doesn't make your opinion carry any more weight or make it any more right. Grow up.

I will not defend @Scaff
I can only explain why some or many people may or do react like this.
The reason:"Claiming that god exists is a fact and that un-believers should believe that".
Off course some "facts" come up like quotes from bibles or strange ideas, and that's the thing that bothers.Claiming facts that can't be named as facts.

Sure and we all evolved from a single cell organism. You could go on and on if you believe in the theory of evolution. Still doesn't really explain if we evolved from a current ancestor how humans ended so much more evolved and intelligent than monkeys. Are monkey's just ignorant humans with bad genes that failed to make it to the human gene pool? Don't get me wrong, I do believe in VERY MINOR changes in evolution over thousands of years, every species of life evolves very slightly but not like the difference between humans and monkeys though.

Why do you think we are more evolved and intelligent?
I think monkeys are much smarter, they do not drain this planet of resources and slowly destroy this planet.
They do not use humans for experiments, Humans do.Humans even use humans for experiments.
We are not so smart, we only think we are smart, because we can abuse power.
Tecnical were are advanced, but was or is it smart that we did that?
According to the "bible" or "god" humans were supposed to live in the garden of "eden", not the garden of New York, London, Tokio, Dubai.
Humans mess up, and still do, just a few are still real human(without technology and just nature).

And yes, i know i'm one of those humans, but i don't care (just a little but not enough), because i only live between now and maybe another 30 or more years and will turn into dust and bones.
My lifetime is nothing compared to the lifetime of this planet.

 

[Dagger311]

I don't really post here much, as I'm not good at getting my point across online, but I will state my beliefs.

I believe in God.

I also believe that there is no, and never will be, proof (or disproof) of God.

Therefore, although I personally believe it to be fact, I cannot state it as such with any real basis, except for the Bible, which, to the people I'd be trying to convince, means nothing.

I'll be leaving now.

 

[Famine]

Sure and we all evolved from a single cell organism. You could go on and on if you believe in the theory of evolution.

Actually, it doesn't matter if you believe in it or not.

Still doesn't really explain if we evolved from a current ancestor how humans ended so much more evolved and intelligent than monkeys.

Uhh, actually it does.

Are monkey's just ignorant humans with bad genes that failed to make it to the human gene pool?

No, monkeys are creatures that have adapted to their environment. They are far better suited to their environment than we are - in fact we destroy their environment so we can live in one that we're adapted to.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in VERY MINOR changes in evolution over thousands of years, every species of life evolves very slightly but not like the difference between humans and monkeys though.

Out of interest, what do you think thousands of VERY MINOR changes over thousands of thousands of years would add up to? Saadanius hijazensis, the last common ape-monkey ancestor, lived 29 million years ago - so what would 29,000 VERY MINOR changes add up to your book?


Whether you accept it, "buy into" it, believe it or you don't, evolution is reality.

 

[kennylmao]

If there is a God (whichever God you believe in), why does other Gods (whichever God others believe in) exist?

 

[Scaff]

I will not defend @Scaff

Please don't.

I can only explain why some or many people may or do react like this.

But you do feel that you can speak for me.

The reason:"Claiming that god exists is a fact and that un-believers should believe that".
Off course some "facts" come up like quotes from bibles or strange ideas, and that's the thing that bothers.Claiming facts that can't be named as facts.

Facts require objective evidence, if something doesn't have that its not a fact.

 

[Dagger311]

If there is a God (whichever God you believe in), why does other Gods (whichever God others believe in) exist?

I have a feeling this could possibly be directed at me? If so:

No one can claim, in solid, unrefutable fact that their God exists. They can however, believe it to be fact. I, personally, believe the Christian God to be real. Just like the Muslim who owns the Valero down the road (nice guy by the way) believes his God to be real. Neither one of us can prove, in 100% scientific fact, that our chosen deity is real.

I had a point, but, as I said above, I can't find the words to get it there... That's the reason I typically stay out of threads like these. I lack the debating skills necessary to argue a point.

 

[Scaff]

I have a feeling this could possibly be directed at me? If so:

No one can claim, in solid, unrefutable fact that their God exists. They can however, believe it to be fact. I, personally, believe the Christian God to be real. Just like the Muslim who owns the Valero down the road (nice guy by the way) believes his God to be real. Neither one of us can prove, in 100% scientific fact, that our chosen deity is real.

I had a point, but, as I said above, I can't find the words to get it there... That's the reason I typically stay out of threads like these. I lack the debating skills necessary to argue a point.

Interestingly enough your god and the guy down the roads god is actually the same god.

Islam and Christianity differ only in the identity of the prophets and the texts the wrote and/or influenced. Christians basically think the line stopped with Jesus - Muslims basically pop in one more and downgrade Jesus from Messiah to prophet. The core 'god' behind it however is exactly the same.

 

[kennylmao]

I have a feeling this could possibly be directed at me? If so:

No one can claim, in solid, unrefutable fact that their God exists. They can however, believe it to be fact. I, personally, believe the Christian God to be real. Just like the Muslim who owns the Valero down the road (nice guy by the way) believes his God to be real. Neither one of us can prove, in 100% scientific fact, that our chosen deity is real.

I had a point, but, as I said above, I can't find the words to get it there... That's the reason I typically stay out of threads like these. I lack the debating skills necessary to argue a point.

Oh, no. Just a general question to anyone who believes in God but you can also choose to answer.

Also, your explanation a few posts above is good and logical. A believer explains using the holy book whereas a non-believer explains using science. Both certainly can't come to a resolution that way so there's only one thing to do and that is to agree on things we can agree upon. Is beer good for a Christian?

 

[Dagger311]

Interestingly enough your god and the guy down the roads god is actually the same god.

Really? Just goes to show how much I know about Islam... I always assumed theirs wasn't the same. Why are the names different though?

Islam and Christianity differ only in the identity of the prophets and the texts the wrote and/or influenced. Christians basically think the line stopped with Jesus - Muslims basically pop in one more and downgrade Jesus from Messiah to prophet. The core 'god' behind it however is exactly the same.

You learn something new every day, I guess. .

Edit:

Oh, no. Just a general question to anyone who believes in God but you can also choose to answer.

Also, your explanation a few posts above is good and logical. A believer explains using the holy book whereas a non-believer explains using science. Both certainly can't come to a resolution that way so there's only one thing to do and that is to agree on things we can agree upon. Is beer good for a Christian?

Ah, okay.

As for beer being good for a Christian... That depends, is beer in any way harmful to your body? I'd guess that, in large quantities it is, but I'm not sure. I'm a little young to know, what with being under 21 and all .

 

[huskeR32]

You could go on and on if you believe in the theory of evolution.

What you think you're communicating by using that word that way: Theories are basically guesses, so evolution is far from being fact.

What you're actually communicating by using that word that way: You misunderstand the word "theory" as badly as you misunderstand evolution itself.

 

[Carbonox]

Really? Just goes to show how much I know about Islam... I always assumed theirs wasn't the same. Why are the names different though?

Language difference, nothing more I'd think. Allah is Arabic for 'god'.