Do you believe in God?

[Groundfish]

^^^the hate I mentioned.
Anyways if you accept what was posted above re brain states which is accepted inarguable fact, then relate the implications of that truth to Kant describing “things in themselves” and “things as they are”
You end up in a more idealist position, or rather I do philosophically.
I just find a position like that is a far better basis for morality than the childish narcissistic position Rand takes in her works of fiction, which are nothing more than an apology for narcissism, but that viewpoint I have on this is unwelcome in this company.
Anyways there’s a reason Kant can’t be refuted, idealism remains a valid position.
And yes, it IS amazing when you include the possibility that what we don’t understand is not what we think it will be, that’s pretty much scientific method right there.
Anyways jmo
Yes and No.

 

[Denur]

^^^the hate I mentioned.

I already had a suspicion that you and I have a different definition for hatred. To me a laughing smiley is an expression of amusement, certainly not hatred. I would turn it around: You hate being laughed at.

 

[TexRex]

^^^the hate I mentioned

That's not hate. That's me conveying my mirth resulting from this exchange.

 

[huskeR32]

I’m going to give this example of different. It’s just an example-an actual change in the brains electrical state from normal day to day writing an email type stuff. This is melodramatic but lots of good science here.

I actually found that pretty interesting to watch, probably because I once spent a few months working with a therapist who administered neurofeedback therapy in an ongoing effort to reduce my panic/anxiety disorder. It didn't really work, but still, I found the thinking behind it all fairly interesting.

However, I'm still left in the dark about what any of this has to do with your statement that atheism lacks utility. One atheist could buy into all of that, while another does not, and it would have nothing at all to do with their atheism.

I just find a position like that is a far better basis for morality than the childish narcissistic position Rand takes in her works of fiction, which are nothing more than an apology for narcissism, but that viewpoint I have on this is unwelcome in this company.

How are you coming to that conclusion? The only two people who have engaged you on it so far have both said they don't think anybody here subscribes to that "Randian" point of view. So who is making you feel unwelcome? And how??

It's like you just keep having this disjointed conversation with yourself, ignoring everything that anybody else is saying to you.

 

[Groundfish]

How are you coming to that conclusion?

Really? Lol look at the remarks from the peanut gallery above lol.
People aren’t used to honesty. See what I find about learning that there’s all these applications of technologies like the neurofeedback stuff is it’s all kind of about slightly altered states of consciousness.
There’s a big relation between thoughts about the topic and perspectives from different cultures even including cultures that employ hallucinogens. I’m not one of those who have used shrooms or ayahuasca or mescaline or acid or things like that but it’s interesting how there’s a parallel in many ways between great athletes musicians-people in a great conversation etc and the brain state AND the brain state and experiences of people on psychedelics.
It trips me out because of experiences I’ve enjoyed from hobbies I have.
When I was younger we used to talk about the zone all the time and it’s neat to see that some aspects are measurable reality.
Those experiences are not explainable in this format or by words.
You can talk about it after but there’s no words...
Yes AND No
Stuff like this topic is silly to discuss-what is the form of the formless?
It’s silly and mistaken to think by using logic questions like this can be approached. How do you feel? Yano.

 

[Danoff]

I just find a position like that is a far better basis for morality

...like what?

I’m not one of those who have used shrooms or ayahuasca or mescaline or acid or things like that

Are you sure? 'cuz....

Yes AND No
Stuff like this topic is silly to discuss-what is the form of the formless?
It’s silly and mistaken to think by using logic questions like this can be approached. How do you feel? Yano.

 

[Famine]

Really? Lol look at the remarks from the peanut gallery above lol.

If a single smiley is hatred, how is this comment not also hatred?

 

[Groundfish]

If a single smiley is hatred, how is this comment not also hatred?

It’s me saying look at the comments. It’s funny because of how predictable they are.

 

[Scaff]

Really? Lol look at the remarks from the peanut gallery above lol.
People aren’t used to honesty. See what I find about learning that there’s all these applications of technologies like the neurofeedback stuff is it’s all kind of about slightly altered states of consciousness.
There’s a big relation between thoughts about the topic and perspectives from different cultures even including cultures that employ hallucinogens. I’m not one of those who have used shrooms or ayahuasca or mescaline or acid or things like that but it’s interesting how there’s a parallel in many ways between great athletes musicians-people in a great conversation etc and the brain state AND the brain state and experiences of people on psychedelics.
It trips me out because of experiences I’ve enjoyed from hobbies I have.
When I was younger we used to talk about the zone all the time and it’s neat to see that some aspects are measurable reality.
Those experiences are not explainable in this format or by words.
You can talk about it after but there’s no words...
Yes AND No
Stuff like this topic is silly to discuss-what is the form of the formless?
It’s silly and mistaken to think by using logic questions like this can be approached. How do you feel? Yano.

As someone with a past of abusing various drugs, I have to say that’s some stream of nonsense you just posted.

 

[Famine]

It’s me saying look at the comments. It’s funny because of how predictable they are.

And the previous comment was someone finding yours funny. Incidentally the peanut gallery is a term for the cheap seats for the poor, stupid, lower-class people.

Again, if a single smiley is hatred, how is that comment not also hatred?

 

[Groundfish]

And the previous comment was someone finding yours funny. Incidentally the peanut gallery is a term for the cheap seats for the poor, stupid, lower-class people.

Again, if a single smiley is hatred, how is that comment not also hatred?

Because there was no hatred in my heart when I typed it.
Imagine sharing thoughts in a forum area where 95 percent of the responses involve criticism.
I believe Denys above said you are being laughed AT, not with.
Take that as you will. It is what it is, there will be no apology.

 

[TexRex]

Because there was no hatred in my heart when I typed it.

There was no hatred in mine. There was a big grin on my face and a vigorous chortle rising from my chest.

 

[UKMikey]

There was no hatred in mine. There was a big grin on my face and a vigorous chortle rising from my chest.

I think anything less than total agreement and concurrence equals hatred in his view. Pass the peanuts.

LOL at how we all transitioned from leftists to Randians for simply not believing in God.

 

[richroo]

exactly 'Do you believe ! ' over the past people have been guided by a sense of a spiritual being ,this has given rules to abide by to which the mass take part, giving everyone equality. well that will never happen as man can only cheat rob kill each other , now religiously war has been fort for years ...
Why can't we all take the time to treat each other with kindness instead of the greed .

 

[Famine]

Because there was no hatred in my heart when I typed it.

That... sort of answers the second part of the question, but not the first.

You've conveyed the same emotion - laughter - but added an insult. Yet you believe the other user is expressing hatred and you - because there's no hatred in your heart - are not. You are not holding others to the same standard you hold yourself to.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I feel our prayers were answered when my sister was told that she likely has MS or another neurological condition instead of her previous diagnosis of brain and spinal tumours and yet....wonder why there is all this illness in the world if God exists.

 

[Carbonox]

I feel our prayers were answered when my sister was told that she likely has MS or another neurological condition instead of her previous diagnosis of brain and spinal tumours and yet....wonder why there is all this illness in the world if God exists.

Because suffering builds character and gets you closer to God by some faulty logic, duh.

 

[richroo]

with my knocks i hope the race tracks and champagne is all gold if it exists....

 

[TexRex]

exactly 'Do you believe ! ' over the past people have been guided by a sense of a spiritual being ,this has given rules to abide by to which the mass take part, giving everyone equality. well that will never happen as man can only cheat rob kill each other , now religiously war has been fort for years ...
Why can't we all take the time to treat each other with kindness instead of the greed .

Morality exists in the absence of religiosity--moral constructs that undoubtedly existed prior to the foundation of organized religion were likely co-opted by founders, even if certain constructs were chosen or disregarded instead of scuttling the whole lot into the belief system--and immorality absolutely exists in the presence of religiosity, such as extremism that perpetrators seek to justify with religious belief and, of course, pederasty in priesthood; but that isn't to say that immorality is the result of religiosity, rather that they exist together just as they exist separately (the latter even supporting the notion that correlation doesn't imply causation in this instance).

Inequality also absolutely exists in the presence of religiosity; it's frequently even considered foundational among practitioners. Of course you've got inequality across religious belief, with the apparent belief that members of the biggest group are the only ones who go to heaven and so everything is permissible to make one's group the biggest, up to and including genocide, but also inequality within religious belief, with some individuals deemed to be less than others based on some arbitrary difference.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Because suffering builds character and gets you closer to God by some faulty logic, duh.

I wonder how people who have faith rationalise it. Speaking only from a Christian point of view I guess people may say it could be some sort of test before entering the Kingdom of God since Jesus loved to preach that people would suffer if they were committed to God. But why does such a "test" exist....

 

[Dotini]

I feel our prayers were answered when my sister was told that she likely has MS or another neurological condition instead of her previous diagnosis of brain and spinal tumours and yet....wonder why there is all this illness in the world if God exists.

If God still exists and suffering stills exists, then the leading explanation has to be that God created the universe to experience physical and emotional reality through us, and that means all of it.

 

[Danoff]

God created the universe to experience physical and emotional reality through us

The what now?

 

[Imari]

If God still exists and suffering stills exists, then the leading explanation has to be that God created the universe to experience physical and emotional reality through us, and that means all of it.

Or that God simply doesn't care that much. We tend not to concern ourselves overly much with the suffering of lower animals. Why should He be particularly concerned that some of His creations are suffering?

Or maybe just that God is an :censored:hole and thinks that human suffering makes good entertainment. Again, not really so different from ourselves if you take a look at what makes popular news and entertainment.

 

[Dotini]

Or that God simply doesn't care that much.

If God didn't care, then why make the universe? But then there is the matter of free will. If the universe was deterministic and without suffering, then we don't have it.

 

[Danoff]

If God didn't care, then why make the universe?

Maybe the universe wasn't made for us. Maybe the universe was made for some other species and we were intended to provide an important lesson to that species when they round us up and exterminate us. Eventually that species will come to realize that it was wrong, even though we were lesser animals, and God will have taught them how to live morally by providing the genocide of humanity as something for them to atone for.

 

[HenrySwanson]

If God didn't care, then why make the universe? But then there is the matter of free will. If the universe was deterministic and without suffering, then we don't have it.

Do you believe we have free will?

 

[Denur]

Do you believe we have free will?

Please, please, enlighten me: Why is that relevant in this god thread?

 

[huskeR32]

Please, please, enlighten me: Why is that relevant in this god thread?

It's actually come up in here on many occasions, usually via the conflict between humanity's free will and god's omniscience. I don't know exactly where Henry is going with his question here, but it certainly can be a relevant topic here.

 

[Denur]

It's actually come up in here on many occasions

I know. I should have asked: "Why do you think that having free will is, relevant in this god thread"

 

[Danoff]

I know. I should have asked: "Why do you think that having free will is, relevant in this god thread"

The usual way is that if a god is omniscient, that god knows all of your choices before you're even created... so how can you even make one? You're created, and you go forth and perform according to how that god knew you would perform based on how it created you.