Do you believe?

[JacktheHat]

As the 'Is religion contrived?' thread has thrown up so much debate I thought it would be interesting to see what people believe in.

Feel free to elaborate below....


And Famine's comment below is correct, I just can't edit the poll!

 

[Famine]

Just to clarify, that should be "No, I don't believe in any higher being/cause to which we are responsible.", since the existence of "higher" beings - more advanced lifeforms - is a certainty.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Yes I believe in some sort of god but to be constrained to one certain religion with rules that maybe contradictory or that arn't followed sounds pretty stupid, irrational or blind IMO.

 

[Duke]

No, I don't believe in any higher, supernatural being. If you accept belief in something irrational, like a god, based on any scripture, how is there any way to judge that you've chosen correctly? While science cannot disprove that god exists - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - there is no valid criteria for selecting any given god from the infinite possibilities that open up as soon as you decide that supernatural beings must exist.

After all, billions of people pray to Jesus while billions pray to Allah or Budda or the pantheon of Hindu gods, just to name a few. But there's no guarantee (or even any evidence) that they're right, either. The Cosmic Penguin could be busy right now laughing at them or plotting the destruction of all infidels who don't believe. Or the Keebler Elves could be baking up a replacement universe in the Oven of Infinite Cookies.

Once you step over that edge there's absolutely no way to stop from sliding down the slope, and the slope goes on forever.

 

[Famine]

No, I don't believe in any higher, supernatural being. If you accept belief in something irrational, like a god, based on any scripture, how is there any way to judge that you've chosen correctly? While science cannot disprove that god exists - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - there is no valid criteria for selecting any given god from the infinite possibilities that open up as soon as you decide that supernatural beings must exist.

After all, billions of people pray to Jesus while billions pray to Allah or Budda or the pantheon of Hindu gods, just to name a few. But there's no guarantee (or even any evidence) that they're right, either. The Cosmic Penguin could be busy right now laughing at them or plotting the destruction of all infidels who don't believe. Or the Keebler Elves could be baking up a replacement universe in the Oven of Infinite Cookies.

Once you step over that edge there's absolutely no way to stop from sliding down the slope, and the slope goes on forever.

Ne'er a saner three paragraphs have been said on GTP.

(except for the Oven of Infinite Cookies bit, which I may have to purloin when I have room in my sig)

 

[JacktheHat]

Ne'er a saner three paragraphs have been said on GTP.

I agree, but I can almost feel the backlash swelling... brace yourselves.

 

[Delirious]

IF there is a god or higher being of some sort (being a skeptic here)

why wouldnt he reveal himself toward us in any way, shape, or form?

it seems kind of satanic for some higher being just to sit and watch us rot while laughing at us that we are wrong for not choosing him

i expect some well thought out (famine type) answers to the question above

 

[Blackbird.]

Yes I'm now uncertain about his existence and every day I'm more and more sure there is no higher. But I'm still forced to believe externally that he exists but internally I believe what I want and I say he is no more or ever was.

 

[JacktheHat]

Yes I'm now uncertain about his existence and every day I'm more and more sure there is no higher. But I'm still forced to believe externally that he exists but internally I believe what I want and I say he is no more or ever was.

You may not want to divulge this information but, what was your reason for losing faith?

It sounds as though you are from a religious family/area, so were you free to make your own decision in the first place?

 

[sicbeing]

i believe there is a god, i think i read that the chances of us just beccomming out of nothing at the beginning of time was 1 out of a number with 1 to the 57 power number of zero's. ( a huge number!) anyway, thats one of the main reasons i think we had to have been created.

 

[Swift]

Well, you all know my answer. I don't want to get a debate going in two threads.

 

[Slick Rick]

I agree with sicbeing. the chance of us existing is near impossible. We MUST have been created by god. I also belive that the belief of god is like a spiral. The more you belive in god the more benefits you will feel you recive from god. The less devoted you are to god the less benefits you will recive from god and your beleif in god will shrink. You must understand its kinda hard for me to explain but this is what i belive.

 

[Famine]

i think i read that the chances of us just beccomming out of nothing at the beginning of time was 1 out of a number with 1 to the 57 power number of zero's. ( a huge number!)

I agree with sicbeing. the chance of us existing is near impossible.

The probability of humanity existing is 1. The probability of other beings in the universe is 1. The probability of other, higher beings existing in the universe is 1.

Where DO you get these fanciful numbers from?

 

[sicbeing]

its just what i read, id believe it if we came from nothing, i mean all it had to do was attempt or try to happen for all eternity until it did.

Im not in agreement with slick rick at all either. the less devoted you are to god the less benefits? this goes back to the other thread where i posted numerous times about how god does not affect your benefits or disbenefits on earth.

 

[Sphinx]

I agree with sicbeing. the chance of us existing is near impossible. We MUST have been created by god. I also belive that the belief of god is like a spiral. The more you belive in god the more benefits you will feel you recive from god. The less devoted you are to god the less benefits you will recive from god and your beleif in god will shrink. You must understand its kinda hard for me to explain but this is what i belive.

I expect the next benefit you are looking forward to from your god is the abilty to receive and believe.

 

[daan]

Or the Keebler Elves could be baking up a replacement universe in the Oven of Infinite Cookies.

But surely the oven would be too full of cookies and there wouldn't be room for a universe in there too.

Unless the universe is inside a chocolate chip....

Aaargh, I'm in the opinions forum!

***Runs away....***

 

[skicrush]

So, I'm a top yes--as part of a structured religion. But the oven of Infinite Cookies is a close second!!

In my faith, we believe in Adam and Eve, and that God told them His whole plan for us kids. As time went by, A&E's kids and grandkids (etc) would get sidetracked, and lose touch with their folks (who knew what they were supposed to believe), and practiced religion as best they could. You'll notice after a little research (if you're curious) that Muslims believe the same thing as Jews and Christians up to the "Abraham sacrifices his son" part of the Bible. The Bible says the son was Isaac, and the Qu'ran says it was Ishmael (For those of you who don't know, an angel stopped him before he did it--it was a test of Abraham's obedience. And an interesting lesson for Abe about how God felt about letting Jesus be crucified, if you are a Chrisitan. And by the way, Catholics are Christians--anyone who believes that Jesus was/is who he says he was/is is a Christian). Anyway, Muslims diverge at that point, more or less. Very similar to how the Jews diverge from the Christians over the issue of Jesus. But the point is that God revealed himself to prophets (or sent his own Son) every so often to get people back on the right path. Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus, etc.

And we have a responsibility to try to find the truth. I really believe that everyone worships the same God--they just may not do it the way God would prefer. If he can give them a chance to learn how to do it the right way, great. If not, he'll judge them according to what they DID know--what they DID understand to be the right things to do.

 

[Swift]

The probability of humanity existing is 1. The probability of other beings in the universe is 1. The probability of other, higher beings existing in the universe is 1.

Where DO you get these fanciful numbers from?

Man, that's really good Famine. I like that. the probability of us being here is 1. Hmm....I'm sure you have an incredible amount of theories and algorithms to back that up. But that sounds every bit like me saying, "God created us, period" You'll have to forgive me, but saying that our probability for existence is 1 for a chance happening really makes me laugh.

 

[Famine]

Man, that's really good Famine. I like that. the probability of us being here is 1. Hmm....I'm sure you have an incredible amount of theories and algorithms to back that up. But that sounds every bit like me saying, "God created us, period" You'll have to forgive me, but saying that our probability for existence is 1 for a chance happening really makes me laugh.

It's quite simple really. No algorithms needed.

The universe is infinite.

The universe is filled with infinite matter and energy.

There are an infinite number of stars.

There are an infinite number of planets around these infinite stars.

There is infinite variability in the physical characteristics of these planets.

There are therefore an infinite number of worlds supporting life.

There is thus an infinite spectrum of life - from basic to super-advanced.

Therefore, given the existence of the universe (whose own probability of existence is, in fact, 1), the probability of the existence of the human race as a matter of chance is 1.

Q.E.D.

its just what i read,

Gotta be true then...

Don't supposed they explained their calculations to reach the conclusion that the chances of the universe occurring randomly was 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, by any chance?

Didn't think so, because it's nonsense.

 

[Swift]

It's quite simple really. No algorithms needed.

The universe is infinite.

The universe is filled with infinite matter and energy.

There are an infinite number of stars.

There are an infinite number of planets around these infinite stars.

There is infinite variability in the physical characteristics of these planets.

There are therefore an infinite number of worlds supporting life.

There is thus an infinite spectrum of life - from basic to super-advanced.

Therefore, given the existence of the universe (whose own probability of existence is, in fact, 1), the probability of the existence of the human race as a matter of chance is 1.

Q.E.D.

So, saying that God is infinite and power and knowledge escapes you why?

 

[Famine]

I've already covered this, extensively, in the other thread(s). We don't need rehashes.

 

[Swift]

I've already covered this, extensively, in the other thread(s). We don't need rehashes.

That's cool. I just find it funny that you believe in infinite this and that but not God. Oh well.

 

[Famine]

I don't believe in anything.

 

[Swift]

I don't believe in anything.

My point exactly.

 

[Famine]

That's cool. I just find it funny that you believe in infinite this and that but not God. Oh well.

Doesn't look like it.


Anyway, to summarise all the crap from the other thread:

The universe is infinite and contains all stuff. If God is made of stuff He cannot be infinite. If God is not made of stuff, God is not in the universe and doesn't exist. The end.

 

[ledhed]

But surely the oven would be too full of cookies and there wouldn't be room for a universe in there too.

Unless the universe is inside a chocolate chip....

Aaargh, I'm in the opinions forum!

***Runs away....***

I will subscribe to the oven of infinite pie

 

[Swift]

Doesn't look like it.


Anyway, to summarise all the crap from the other thread:

The universe is infinite and contains all stuff. If God is made of stuff He cannot be infinite. If God is not made of stuff, God is not in the universe and doesn't exist. The end.

Oh man, you just get funnier everytime you post. Infinite everything, from a lot of nothing. You said there is infinite everything right? Well, got is energy, spirit energy, so does that get included?

I know you believe that I'm brainwashed, but your education has certainly trained you to only understand what you can put in your hands.

 

[skicrush]

So, saying that God is infinite and power and knowledge escapes you why?

Exactly. Or saying that there is no chance there IS a being as advanced as we claim God is? Didn't he just contradict himself?

 

[Famine]

Oh man, you just get funnier everytime you post. Infinite everything, from a lot of nothing. I know you believe that I'm brainwashed, but your education has certainly trained you to only understand what you can put in your hands.

And I can put infinity in my hands how?

Or saying that there is no chance there IS a being as advanced as we claim God is? Didn't he just contradict himself?

You ARE aware of the huge gulf in difference between an advanced being arising FROM the universe and the concept of God, aren't you?

 

[Swift]

And I can put infinity in my hands how?

Exactly! Yet you say you comprehend an infinite universe. But how do you know the universe is infinite? An equation? A peer reviewed study? I'm really trying to understand how you say there is infinity when you can't see it WITHOUT anykind of faith.