do you think CR informative or garbage?If so why?

[askia47]

Well what do you think? i would use CR to purchase a car and it's not a biased source at all. i wouldn't buy a car if i only read CR as i also read Road & Track and Car and Driver and i would use those as sources as well. It seems that people say to me that CR is biased, it is in favor of Japanese, it displays wrong information, and it should be regarded as an source you could use when buying a car. if you just say i am wrong your ignorant. While CR does not test cars to the maximum, will you go out and drive your Chevy Malibu 100+ miles per hour? think about it.

 

[1X83Z]

Are you just trying to comment on Duke's signature?

Consumer Reports is biased. They make extremely conservative evaluations of cars based on three simple facts: Fuel economy, crash test ratings, and reliability. The problem is that reliability is a subjective Consumer Reports category, because they say that "some categories mean more to overall reliability than other categories." Naturally, they leave these 'categories' unnamed, so they can turn against American cars if they have a problem in a category. Additionally, I don't care about fuel economy and crash test results. The only situation I would care about fuel economy would be if a car I owned got less than ten miles per gallon. Crash tests are simulated straight-on frontal impacts that rarely occur in the real world. I'd have no problem with Consumer Reports' no-nonsense evaluations if I wasn't a car person, but I am, and the fact that there are non-car people who are actually influenced by this garbage written by also non-car people scares me.

 

[Cobraboy]

Originally posted by askia47
if you just say i am wrong your ignorant.

You, my friend, are a hypocrite. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=448438#post448438

 

[askia47]

then again they CR does get tere info fron the consumers, also if CR is biased isn't car and driver?

Also M5power i orginally said something about CR and neon duke opposed it and put if in his signature.

this was in my sig originally.

Japanese cars are more dependable than American. If you want proof or a source pick up Consumer Reports and check the reliability on the cars. They are accurate, and will guide you better to your puchase of car.

 

[NASCARnut]

In thier June 2002 issue the put the Corvette up against the T-Bird. I still don't understand that.

 

[risingson77]

They try to be a comprehensive guide and come out with nothing. They know very little about most of what they review, and it shows. Usually they compare superficial "features" and pick the least expensive model of whatever is being reviewed. Or, they're just wrong.

I also think it's relied upon mostly by people who are afraid to make their own decisions.

 

[Joey D]

CR is biases I'm going to agree with that. I've read some of there stuff and they really don't like American cars.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by askia47

Also M5power i orginally said something about CR and neon duke opposed it and put if in his signature.

this was in my sig originally.

Japanese cars are more dependable than American. If you want proof or a source pick up Consumer Reports and check the reliability on the cars. They are accurate, and will guide you better to your puchase of car.

Oh. Well if that was in your sig then you are/were obviously correct.

neon_duke and I were talking recently through a private message and we came to the conclusion that it's got to be written by people who do not like cars, and it's CERTAINLY wirtten for people who do not like cars and want to make owning a car as painless experience of possible. Proof: The lowest rated 5-series BMW they rate is the M5, the lowest-rated 3-series is the M3, the lowest-rated E-Class is the E55, and strangely the trend continues.

 

[risingson77]

I feel the same about the same way about them in regards to audio gear.

 

[askia47]

how could they rate cars, when they don't like them?

 

[risingson77]

Perhaps a better way to say it is that they aren't driving enthusiats. Cars are transportation, no more. Apparently, they once defended their omission of performance specifications saying,"Our readers don't drive like that" or something to that effect. It's probably true, so it's one more reason I don't pay CR much attention.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by risingson77
Perhaps a better way to say it is that they aren't driving enthusiats. Cars are transportation, no more. Apparently, they once defended their omission of performance specifications saying,"Our readers don't drive like that" or something to that effect. It's probably true, so it's one more reason I don't pay CR much attention.

Thumbs. Completely true, in my opinion, and if you read their magazine, you'd agree.

 

[Sludge Slide]

CR is horse****. If I'm looking into a specific car, I'll contact the manufacturer, consult a mechanic or browse a few websites.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
neon_duke and I were talking recently through a private message and we came to the conclusion that it's got to be written by people who do not like cars, and it's CERTAINLY wirtten for people who do not like cars and want to make owning a car as painless experience of possible. Proof: The lowest rated 5-series BMW they rate is the M5, the lowest-rated 3-series is the M3, the lowest-rated E-Class is the E55, and strangely the trend continues.

Wow. I didn't know CR was edited by Ralph Nader....

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by Sludge Slide
CR is horse****. If I'm looking into a specific car, I'll contact the manufacturer, consult a mechanic or browse a few websites.

Went to a party some time ago. Homeowner asked someone standing next to me what he thought of the wine. That someone said he didn't feel like finishing his glass. Homeowner was surprised because CR top-rated it....

 

[risingson77]

What's the name of the wine? I want to be able to avoid it like the plague.

That's another thing I've noticed about CR as well: the ratings are so back-asswards it's like they're doing it on pupose just to screw with people.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I say that CR is the best source that you can find period. I have no problem or whatsoever disagreeing thier judgements. I'm with them, American cars sucks in their opinion. And the reliability issues is not made by them, it is made by surveys through millions of CR subsribers around the US.

And the way they test those cars are very simple, very real-world tests, not like the stupid Motortrend they alway look on the glitz, glamor and Horsepower, Road and Track for extremly vintage and european exotics (like DuPont Registry and Barlett-Jackson combined), Automobile is primarily for car designers and the love for Euro cars, and AMI Auto World for the love of cars made in Detroit ONLY.

MeanwhileCar and Driver, Motorweek, AutoWeek, Edmunds, Carpoint, Consumer Digest, The Car Connection, and Comsumer Guide are other magazines with fair facts based on my opinion aside Consumer Reports. And CR are the only ones who anonymously purchase those cars from dealers, not using test cars like other magazine source do. Thats why they have the fewest roadtests a month (maximum of 4 or 5 cars) not like the test car users on other magazines (minimum of 6 cars a month).

Take note: they don't accept advertising on their mags, they rely on magazine sales and subsciptions. Heck, they've done this for over 40-50+ years testing cars.

Magazines that I trust the most:
#1 Consumer Reports
#2 Car and Driver
#3 Edmunds
#4 Autoweek
#5 Consumer Guide
#6 Motorweek
#7 The Car Connection
#8 Consumer Digest
#9 Carpoint
#10 Newspapers: Wall Street Journal, NY Times & USA Today

 

[risingson77]

They may not accept advertising, but they most certainly can be influenced. A few years ago, CR rated a Bose product poorly. Bose sued, claiming that CR's testing methods were inaccurate (they probably are, but that's beside the point). Since that time, CR's appraisal of Bose has improved considerably - it is consistently rated a best buy and as haveing some of the flattest frequency response available (which is odd, because Bose themselves don't attempt flat frequency response!)

I am also bothered by the fact that CR tries to be all things to all people when their knowledge in most of what they review is quite limited.

 

[askia47]

I have to say i support vanishing boy as he explains what he said, and it makes sense.

 

[risingson77]

Let me explain a bit further then:

Most hobbyists (whether it's cars, audio or whatever) take exception to CR's judgements. They tend to pick the cheapest item with the most bells and whistles that didn't break while they were testing.

Then again, I don't read reviews from anyone very seriously. I prefer to form my own opinions. I don't think very much of reviewers - many of them come off as self-important. And everybody's gotta get paid, so I don't but complete impartiality. General reliability information is easy enough to come by.

 

[Duke]

I don't give a crap about the fact that Consumer Retards doesn't accept advertising. THEY ARE BIASED. They have an editorial slant towards Japanese cars. Period. They claim to be impartial and scientific, but they are careful to make all of their ratings be subjective so that they can draw whatever conclusion they wish to draw despite the evidence.

How are you going to rate the relative acceleration of two cars if you don't do it at wide open throttle? Are you just going to hope that both drivers put their foot down the same amount? And you can't make a car go any faster than its maximum acceleration, but you can sure as hell make it go a lot slower if you want to.

As I said in my first anti-CR sig, they tested the '96 Civic against the '96 Neon. Every last one of the Neon's performance numbers was better than the Civic, except fuel economy, about which I am not interested. Yet when it came to summary time, magically the Civic's performance was rated as Outstanding, while the Neon's performance was rated Average. WTF? I'm not talking about the overall rating of the car, I'm talking about the specific performance rating. They blatantly ignored their own test numbers and came to the conclusion they had decided well before the test was even begun.

As another instance, they invariably refer to the interiors of American cars as "plasticy". At a little over 7 years since its date of manufacture, the "plasticy" interior of my Neon is tight, unfaded, unwarped, and rattle-free. Every Japanese car I've ever sat in had plastic all around me as well, but somehow this is never mentioned. And the interior colors chosen by the Japanese designers are usually gawd-awful as well, but I admit that's strictly my opinion.

My point is that CR loves to publish pictures of themselves wearing lab coats and holding clipboards, but the fact remains that they are the worst scientists around. They have a predetermined, subjective conclusion, they ignore their own test data if it doesn't agree, and they paint their results as if they are The Word Of God Himself.

 

[Sludge Slide]

Originally posted by neon_duke
I don't give a crap about the fact that Consumer Retards doesn't accept advertising. THEY ARE BIASED. They have an editorial slant towards Japanese cars. Period. They claim to be impartial and scientific, but they are careful to make all of their ratings be subjective so that they can draw whatever conclusion they wish to draw despite the evidence.

How are you going to rate the relative acceleration of two cars if you don't do it at wide open throttle? Are you just going to hope that both drivers put their foot down the same amount? And you can't make a car go any faster than its maximum acceleration, but you can sure as hell make it go a lot slower if you want to.

As I said in my first anti-CR sig, they tested the '96 Civic against the '96 Neon. Every last one of the Neon's performance numbers was better than the Civic, except fuel economy, about which I am not interested. Yet when it came to summary time, magically the Civic's performance was rated as Outstanding, while the Neon's performance was rated Average. WTF? I'm not talking about the overall rating of the car, I'm talking about the specific performance rating. They blatantly ignored their own test numbers and came to the conclusion they had decided well before the test was even begun.

As another instance, they invariably refer to the interiors of American cars as "plasticy". At a little over 7 years since its date of manufacture, the "plasticy" interior of my Neon is tight, unfaded, unwarped, and rattle-free. Every Japanese car I've ever sat in had plastic all around me as well, but somehow this is never mentioned. And the interior colors chosen by the Japanese designers are usually gawd-awful as well, but I admit that's strictly my opinion.

My point is that CR loves to publish pictures of themselves wearing lab coats and holding clipboards, but the fact remains that they are the worst scientists around. They have a predetermined, subjective conclusion, they ignore their own test data if it doesn't agree, and they paint their results as if they are The Word Of God Himself.

Ah, thats perfect. Nice one.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by risingson77
Let me explain a bit further then:

Most hobbyists (whether it's cars, audio or whatever) take exception to CR's judgements. They tend to pick the cheapest item with the most bells and whistles that didn't break while they were testing.

I read a recent CR review of the Saturn Vue (which, sorry, is an absoultely horrible SUV -- American or not -- stuck in a horrible segment) in which, when doing the slalom test, the "dent-resistent" body panel hit a cone and most of it fell off.

 

[boombexus]

So who the heck can we trust to honestly evaluate a product? Wether it be a car or a dishwasher.
I know the main focus here is on the automobile and CR's biased or unbiased opinion of a vehicle, but do everyones opinions here cary across the whole spectrum of what CR tests?
Where am I to go when I am deciding to purchase a dishwasher or a refrigerator? I know jack and **** about those kind of appliances but I'm certainly not going to listen to some idiot sales person that probably hasn't graduated from high school yet or manufactuers data (I mean to trust what a manufactuer tells you about there own product, of course there going to tell you it's the best.) to make a decision. Should I just go into a store and just purchase a top name for the hell of it? Am I getting the best if I solely rely on who can put out the most commercials on TV?

Who do I listen to when deciding on a purchase? My gut instinct? Whew, I cant tell you how many times my gut instinct about a chic has been so horribly wrong, let alone a dishwasher.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by boombexus
So who the heck can we trust to honestly evaluate a product? Wether it be a car or a dishwasher.
I know the main focus here is on the automobile and CR's biased or unbiased opinion of a vehicle, but do everyones opinions here cary across the whole spectrum of what CR tests?
Where am I to go when I am deciding to purchase a dishwasher or a refrigerator? I know jack and **** about those kind of appliances but I'm certainly not going to listen to some idiot sales person that probably hasn't graduated from high school yet or manufactuers data (I mean to trust what a manufactuer tells you about there own product, of course there going to tell you it's the best.) to make a decision. Should I just go into a store and just purchase a top name for the hell of it? Am I getting the best if I solely rely on who can put out the most commercials on TV?

Who do I listen to when deciding on a purchase? My gut instinct? Whew, I cant tell you how many times my gut instinct about a chic has been so horribly wrong, let alone a dishwasher.

A car is something you're going to be spending a considerable amount of time in over the course over your life. A refrigerator cools things. I don't think anyone is a refrigerator enthusiast. Though I wouldn't actually pay money to find out what Consumer thinks the best refrigerator is.

 

[boombexus]

Originally posted by M5Power
A car is something you're going to be spending a considerable amount of time in over the course over your life. A refrigerator cools things. I don't think anyone is a refrigerator enthusiast. Though I wouldn't actually pay money to find out what Consumer thinks the best refrigerator is.

What about the mother of 4 kids? She's going to be spending a considerable amount of time with a washing machine and other home appliances. Does she want a product that is going to fail or not do the job that she needs it to do? She probably isn't a refrigerator or washing machine enthusiast, but she probably wants a reliable product. Does she care if CR is biased or not? Probably not, but she at least needs a frame of reference to start her search for her appliances. Is that mother of 4 a car enthusiast? Probably not. But she is a enthusiast of a car that will get her from point A to B in the most efficient manner. She's definately an enthusiast of a car that will protect her children in a accident.
I don't think that CR is a publication geared towards the enthusiast, but it is a publication that is geared for the average Joe that needs to find some sort of product information that they need. CR rates there products in categories that the average Joe wants or cares about. Just like the mother of 4. She doesnt care how the car accelerates undre full throttle, she cares if her family is going to be able to survive in a crash. CR is not about what the enthusiast wants.
Wether it be a car or a home appliance CR is a decent publication that is not going to lead any consumer into making a bad buying decision.
Is CR biased towards Japanese cars over American made cars? Who cares!!! Joe sure don't. He just needs a car, and just like me and home appliances, he doesn't know jack **** about cars nor does he really want to.
Us here as enthusiasts do care about the more involved details of a vehicle and therefore must seek out better information than what CR has doled out to the average consumer. But CR is a decent source of information just like many other sources out there. Should we regard CR, or any publication for that matter, as the Holy Grail of unbiased information. I would certainly hope that we are not that gullible.

 

[Duke]

Your point is well taken Boom, and I agree that their priorities are not my priorities. Yet their willingness to ignore their own data makes me suspect everything else they do, to the point that I probably wouldn't trust their recommendation on a refrigerator.

Especially considering how 'Holier Than Thou' they are about it.

 

[risingson77]

Yeah, there's also that "holier-than-thou": atttude...

As far as appliances are concerned, I have no objection to CR. There's basically no way to screw that up: it either works or it doesn't; it's easy to use or it isn't; it's reasonably priced or they're gouging you.

In regards to acceleration: they may not use WOT, but I think they accelerate until someone soils themselves (never takes long). Then they test the stain-resistance of the fabric on the seat.

 

[askia47]

If CR is biased then Motor Tend is not? Motor trend is biased then! They always go after the faster car.

 

[Duke]

No, Motor Trend, C/D, etc are also biased, but they don't really make any bones about it. I trust their test numbers better, and they make it clear when they are being subjective. They often say stuff like:

"Well, car X had the fastest 0-60 time, and we managed a slightly better skidpad number with it as well. However, it was more difficult to drive consistently, and was not as forgiving at the limits. Car Y was slower all around, but easier to predict when driving."

That's a statement that makes sense, and is determined by the driving impression, and allows the reader to make his own choices. CR would have said something like:

"Car Y is best because we found it to offer acceptable, quiet acceleration, more comfortable ride, and better leg room than car X. Plus, Japanese cars like Y tend to be more reliable and hold their resale value better."

There's a big difference.

Actually, the only car magazine reviews that I really pay any attention to are in Grassroots Motorsports.