Do you think GT7 is a better game than GT5/6?

[MIE1992]

Generally-speaking, yes, but I don't think this is a fair comparison. That said, I do long for the return of various bits of content that were introduced in the PS3 era, such as the Goodwood Hillclimb, Ascari, Silverstone, and the Circuito di Roma. Then there were some of the premium cars that haven't returned yet, like that Isuzu concept from the 80s, the pre-facelift Mazda RX-8 from the 00s, or the various tuners picked from both SEMA and the Tokyo Auto Salon.

Of course, I think some cars are going to get left behind because they're truly now outclassed by a successor - one example being the Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08. Who's gonna want that relatively older Challenger when they could have the post-facelift Challenger Hellcat? (Yes, I know the Challenger Demon is in the datamine list!) But speaking of Dodge, I can't say I'd mind the return of the Charger SRT8 '11 to compliment the newer Charger Hellcat. I feel that the differences between the two Charger models are more significant than those between the two Challenger models.

And the 2013 Viper GTS Launch Edition just seemed superfluous. I'd much rather see the ACR version for that model, as well as the return of the Viper ACR '08. But I digress.

 

[shenfrey]

Right, because you'd design a proper interface that worked with a controller. You know, the one device that you can absolutely guarantee that everyone playing the game has, that works on the one piece of hardware that you can also absolutely guarantee that everyone playing the game has.

I didn't have a tablet. What was I supposed to do? Go out and drop a few hundred bucks to use this one feature of the game that I already paid money for? I didn't see Polyphony mailing out tablets to go with the update. Or is the answer just "too bad, try not being poor"?

Way to miss the point. The physics are irrelevant to the process of making a track. You could absolutely make a track in TM2: Valley that wouldn't look of place in GT6 and would drive fine - just don't put jumps and loops and boosters in it. Although if I remember people loved putting jumps and wacky hills in the GT6 track creator too, so maybe do it anyway.

P.S. If you're actually a racing fan as your name would suggest, you might want to try Trackmania at some point. It's significantly less simple to be quick than you seem to think. It's absolutely arcade in that it's not based on real physics, but it has a large number of complex mechanics to learn and requires a high level of skill to execute well. Not unlike sims, really.

If it's some fun trackmania type action you're after, the Forza Horizon 5 Hot Wheel expansion has that going for it in spades.

 

[Samus]

Generally-speaking, yes, but I don't think this is a fair comparison.

How on earth can comparing sequels in the same series not be a fair comparison?

 

[MIE1992]

How on earth can comparing sequels in the same series not be a fair comparison?

Because I think a lot has changed for GT since 2013.

 

[Samus]

Because I think a lot has changed for GT since 2013.

All games change, what exactly makes that unfair to compare them?

 

[RacingFan1]

Right, because you'd design a proper interface that worked with a controller. You know, the one device that you can absolutely guarantee that everyone playing the game has, that works on the one piece of hardware that you can also absolutely guarantee that everyone playing the game has.

I didn't have a tablet. What was I supposed to do? Go out and drop a few hundred bucks to use this one feature of the game that I already paid money for? I didn't see Polyphony mailing out tablets to go with the update. Or is the answer just "too bad, try not being poor"?

Way to miss the point. The physics are irrelevant to the process of making a track. You could absolutely make a track in TM2: Valley that wouldn't look of place in GT6 and would drive fine - just don't put jumps and loops and boosters in it. Although if I remember people loved putting jumps and wacky hills in the GT6 track creator too, so maybe do it anyway.

P.S. If you're actually a racing fan as your name would suggest, you might want to try Trackmania at some point. It's significantly less simple to be quick than you seem to think. It's absolutely arcade in that it's not based on real physics, but it has a large number of complex mechanics to learn and requires a high level of skill to execute well. Not unlike sims, really.

Did you actually try the app? If you did, you would realise what I mean, using a tablet made a lot of sense. Can't imagine using that on PS3 with the controller. Would be a nightmare.
You could borrow some days a tablet from someone.
How many cars and tracks did those games had? When you have so much less cars and tracks, the physics are more simple and so on, you have more resources left for creating other things like the track creator. It's impossible to do better than everybody at everything, you know...

 

[SU_Tempest]

Did you actually try the app? If you did, you would realise what I mean, using a tablet made a lot of sense. Can't imagine using that on PS3 with the controller. Would be a nightmare.
You could borrow some days a tablet from someone.
How many cars and tracks did those games had? When you have so much less cars and tracks, the physics are more simple and so on, you have more resources left for creating other things like the track creator. It's impossible to do better than everybody at everything, you know...

This was back during a point in time when many game developers were making companion mobile and tablet apps for their games. There's really no reason why a track editor for a PlayStation game has to be exclusively on Android or iOS no matter how well-designed or how much sense it made. If you can design a track editor with touch controls, you can design it for a controller. To me, it just seems like a novelty that has been exported to another platform because they just had to jump on the mobile train at some point.

But the biggest sticking point with these apps is that support has ended for them. I can't find it on either app store anymore, which means that's a feature that could have been integrated into the game that has simply been taken away.

 

[RacingFan1]

This was back during a point in time when many game developers were making companion mobile and tablet apps for their games. There's really no reason why a track editor for a PlayStation game has to be exclusively on Android or iOS no matter how well-designed or how much sense it made. If you can design a track editor with touch controls, you can design it for a controller. To me, it just seems like a novelty that has been exported to another platform because they just had to jump on the mobile train at some point.

But the biggest sticking point with these apps is that support has ended for them. I can't find it on either app store anymore, which means that's a feature that could have been integrated into the game that has simply been taken away.

I insist that on the PS3 and with the controller, it would be a nightmare to use. If you say that it should've been made for PC, then I agree completely.

You can still download the APK, google it.

 

[Theufcveteran]

I insist that on the PS3 and with the controller, it would be a nightmare to use. If you say that it should've been made for PC, then I agree completely.

You can still download the APK, google it.

I think you could use the motion control to create turns, and the buttons to, for example, produce road. So holding X and nothing else creates a straight line, hold it while turning the controller and you get corners. Twist it sharply to get hairpins and such. It’s not perfect but I think it’d be easier than using the sticks.

But I also think a similar setup would work for the sticks, in fact it might work better. You can create curves, tight corners and hairpins while using the buttons to create road in a direction.

EDIT: Or just using the left stick to create the track. Pushing it any direction produces road. Add a “smoothing/straightening” tool for straights, so if your straight is a bit wobbly due to the sticks, you can make it properly straight. Or only straighten specific sections, if you want a curve on your straight.

 

[SU_Tempest]

I insist that on the PS3 and with the controller, it would be a nightmare to use. If you say that it should've been made for PC, then I agree completely.

You can still download the APK, google it.

I'm saying that this should have been integrated into the game and made in such a way that building a track with a controller isn't too hard. Of course I don't think something built with touch controls in mind should just be moved to a platform that primarily uses a controller without some work to make it usable, I don't doubt it would be a nightmare to use otherwise.

A workaround PC application would have been nice as well, certainly. As for the APK being findable still, I don't doubt it is, I'm just not certain of the legality of looking those up when the authors took them off the official app stores, so I'm not gonna discuss that specific point much further.

 

[Samus]

I insist that on the PS3 and with the controller, it would be a nightmare to use. If you say that it should've been made for PC, then I agree completely.

You can still download the APK, google it.

Why? There is nothing you can do on a touch device that isn't easily replicated using joysticks and buttons.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

No. Better in many aspects with the notable exception of lacking in the game department compared to 5 and 6.

 

[05XR8]

GT7 have the E30 and Sierra. Of course it's better than GT5 & GT6.

 

[Imari]

Did you actually try the app? If you did, you would realise what I mean, using a tablet made a lot of sense. Can't imagine using that on PS3 with the controller. Would be a nightmare.

Yes, I tried it on my tiny phone and on Bluestacks on my non-touchscreen computer. It was clunky and difficult to use. That's why you would design an app that was easily usable with a controller.

Just because they made a touch screen app doesn't mean that was the only way to do it. Or even a good way. It turns out that a good UI designer can alter the design to suit the input device the user has.

You could borrow some days a tablet from someone.

Lol. That's your solution? Buy hardware or borrow someone else's? Congratulations on your wealth.

I had a PS3 already. Why couldn't I just use that?

How many cars and tracks did those games had? When you have so much less cars and tracks, the physics are more simple and so on, you have more resources left for creating other things like the track creator. It's impossible to do better than everybody at everything, you know...

Irrelevant. We're talking about the absolute quality of the track creator. Stop trying to move the goalposts.

You said the GT6 track creator was awesome. I pointed out that even by the standards of the time, it wasn't that great. And your comeback is "well you can't be good at everything"?

I know. That's the point. It wasn't that good. It was acceptable purely by comparison to GT5 and because there were so few other games out there doing anything even remotely comparable. But there were some, and they were much better. A pool of muddy water looks wonderful when you're dying of thirst in the desert, but it doesn't mean that it's a delicious refreshing beverage.

I think you could use the motion control to create turns, and the buttons to, for example, produce road. So holding X and nothing else creates a straight line, hold it while turning the controller and you get corners. Twist it sharply to get hairpins and such. It’s not perfect but I think it’d be easier than using the sticks.

But I also think a similar setup would work for the sticks, in fact it might work better. You can create curves, tight corners and hairpins while using the buttons to create road in a direction.

EDIT: Or just using the left stick to create the track. Pushing it any direction produces road. Add a “smoothing/straightening” tool for straights, so if your straight is a bit wobbly due to the sticks, you can make it properly straight. Or only straighten specific sections, if you want a curve on your straight.

Or...

 

[Boxster]

In general 'feel' of the driving I think GT7 is better, but it lacks single player content. So it's a toss up as long as they don't add more content.

 

[ToyGTone]

Depends really, I can't really be that objective about it due to heavy biasm.

Physics:
I honestly don't care much about how realistic physics are in GT (nor Forza for the matter). As long as it's fun and accessable to play with while maintaining some sort of realism then it's fine by my standards. If i want a pure focused simulation, i have iracing and countless other PC sims for that. I personally wish if the new FM game leans slightly more towards Horizon in terms of physics as controversial as that.

Anyway, i personally don't mind either game's physics so i give it a Draw.

Cars:
GT5/6 is the literal definition of quantity over quality. Lots of cars but most of which are cars ported from GT3/GT4/GTPSP and looked ridiculous in a 7th gen title. If we focused primarily on premium cars only then GT7 wins easily.

However, the PS2 era (i.e Standard cars) had a lot more varied or "quirky" cars than GT7, you know with its focus on VGT cars and high performance exotics from 5 years ago that every other AAA racing game already includes. Even if we ignore half of skylines, RX7s and Miata's, we still had everyday commuter cars, kei cars, race cars, actual interesting concept cars and more. A lot of which have yet to return to GT7.

But at the end of the day, GT7 wins this one due to what i stated initially (quality vs quantity) but it's a hollow win tbh.

Open lobbies:
For whatever, each GT title seemed to get worse when it comes to the Open Lobbies.

GT6 has lost the popular Shuffle racing thing.
GT Sport dropped the voice chat feature albeit, the servers were a bit more stable than GT6 based on personal experience.

GT7's open lobbies is effectively GT Sport's open lobbies but worse in almost everyway. Less features than Sport's one and somehow far less stable.

GT5 ironically wins on this one.

However, integrated community wise, GT Sport/GT7 is better overall even if we ignore car gifting (GT5), Community B Spec (GT5) and Club making (GT6).

So...draw again? I dunno.

Tracks:
GT7 wins easily in regards to real world tracks.

But fictional and city courses? I'm sorry but GT5/6 wins on that one. So many classic GT tracks are missing and those that are included in GT7 like Trial Mountain feels a bit... butchered.

Don't get me wrong, i love Lake Maggiore and Dragon Trail but other tracks? Not so much I'm afraid.

(Still editing the post)

 

[shenfrey]

In general 'feel' of the driving I think GT7 is better, but it lacks single player content. So it's a toss up as long as they don't add more content.

There’s actually more single player content now after all the updates than both GT5 and GT6, at least from an event point of view. Funny isn’t it? We wouldn’t notice because it’s been drip fed to us and we are finished with each update in under an hour each month.

My concern is Kaz will carry on the way their going instead of giving us a big update with lots of single player content.

 

[I-Runner]

There’s actually more single player content now after all the updates than both GT5 and GT6. Funny isn’t it? We wouldn’t notice because it’s been drip fed to us and we are finished each update in under an hour each month.

My concern is Kaz will carry on the way their going instead of giving us a big update with lots of single player content.

A championship of 5 races in the previous GT's worths also 5 separated races, because you can make any race of that championship in singular/alone with the same reward (important see (1))..
This is impossible in GT7, I'd like the 2 laps race on Nurburgring 24h in (the book 39) and I wish to make ONLY this race avery day but the only way I have to run it is making the entire championship.

(1) If I try to setup (ricreate) that race in the event creator the reward is way way way lower than the single (from champioship) race mentioned at the beginning of my post..

So GT7 has many events but theyr value and contribution to the PLAYER cause (buy cars) is very scarce ...

GT7 remains the saddest GT ever ....

 

[shenfrey]

Daily races in the single player would be pretty fun, gives us non-multiplayer racers another reason to log in every day.

 

[djs]

I would consider GT6 a better game if it had solid 60 fps like GT7. Sometimes, I burn my eyes with the screen tearing and the frame drops..

 

[Dave A]

There’s actually more single player content now after all the updates than both GT5 and GT6, at least from an event point of view. Funny isn’t it? We wouldn’t notice because it’s been drip fed to us and we are finished with each update in under an hour each month.

My concern is Kaz will carry on the way their going instead of giving us a big update with lots of single player content.

Do you have figures for that? Not saying you are wrong, but I wouldn't have expected that to be the case just yet.

However, I do agree with your logic, for people who have already completed GT7, the updates will never make it feel like a significantly bigger game as long on the updates are dripping through with the small number of new events they are currently adding each month.

Edit: GT6 had 191 races across 64 events (not counting licenses, missions, lunar, Goodwood, Senna, Red Bull and seasonal events.

GT7 by comparison currently has 168 races over 46 events, again not including missions and licenses.

 

[shenfrey]

Do you have figures for that? Not saying you are wrong, but I wouldn't have expected that to be the case just yet.

However, I do agree with your logic, for people who have already completed GT7, the updates will never make it feel like a significantly bigger game as long on the updates are dripping through with the small number of new events they are currently adding each month.

My guess is very loosely based on the GT wikis. If you look up GT5 events wiki, it details 33. GT6 I believe still under 40, and GT7 currently sits at 45.

 

[Dave A]

My guess is very loosely based on the GT wikis. If you look up GT5 events wiki, it details 33. GT6 I believe still under 40, and GT7 currently sits at 45.

I've just done the maths and GT6 had 191 races across 64 events not counting licenses, missions, lnar, Goodwood, Senna, Red Bull and seasonal events.

GT7 by comparison currently has 168 races over 46 events, again not including missions and licenses.

The gap is closing (GT7 launched with just 34 events), and I suppose it highlights the point you were actually making that it doesn't feel like it's closing because of the nature of the updates. One day it will likely surpass GT7 in the number of races, but how many people will notice?

 

[SG_86]

For Grapics, Car sounds, Costumization, handling i choose GT7

For the rest i choose GT6 and GT5

 

[Nebuc72]

I've just done the maths and GT6 had 191 races across 64 events not counting licenses, missions, lnar, Goodwood, Senna, Red Bull and seasonal events.

GT7 by comparison currently has 168 races over 46 events, again not including missions and licenses.

The gap is closing (GT7 launched with just 34 events), and I suppose it highlights the point you were actually making that it doesn't feel like it's closing because of the nature of the updates. One day it will likely surpass GT7 in the number of races, but how many people will notice?

I suppose the nature of the events is quite a big part of this. It doesn't feel like many of the events in GT7 are events that are worth something, or are different to the other events in the game. I just went through and counted 17 derivatives of the Sunday Cup in the game, which means 10% of offline races are the Sunday Cup. That's quite silly.

Including similar tier events like the FF and FR challenges probably means about 20-25% of these events are made up of what you do in the first 15 minutes of any other GT game.

I don't have a problem inherently with there being lots of variety for the Sunday Cup etc. But having that many Sunday Cups and yet having no Gr.2 events is insanity, and it makes sense as to why GT7 still feels like it has such a low amount of content.

 

[RacingFan1]

Yes, I tried it on my tiny phone and on Bluestacks on my non-touchscreen computer. It was clunky and difficult to use. That's why you would design an app that was easily usable with a controller.

Just because they made a touch screen app doesn't mean that was the only way to do it. Or even a good way. It turns out that a good UI designer can alter the design to suit the input device the user has.

Lol. That's your solution? Buy hardware or borrow someone else's? Congratulations on your wealth.

I had a PS3 already. Why couldn't I just use that?

Irrelevant. We're talking about the absolute quality of the track creator. Stop trying to move the goalposts.

You said the GT6 track creator was awesome. I pointed out that even by the standards of the time, it wasn't that great. And your comeback is "well you can't be good at everything"?

I know. That's the point. It wasn't that good. It was acceptable purely by comparison to GT5 and because there were so few other games out there doing anything even remotely comparable. But there were some, and they were much better. A pool of muddy water looks wonderful when you're dying of thirst in the desert, but it doesn't mean that it's a delicious refreshing beverage.

Or...

Not designed for a tiny phone screen or a PC emulator. So you really didnt get the chance to use it properly. Then you dont know by own experience if it was any good or not.
I tell you: yes it was good. Not perfect, but good. It only lacked custom elevation changes, that's about it. With very cool features like being able to draw tracks out of satellite shots of anywhere in the world.
And having a 200€ tablet doesn't mean being rich. lol
Now please stop replying with another "I'm right you're wrong" and dont try to tell me that I did not enjoy using it.

 

[Nightwing24]

And Now please stop replying now with another "I'm right you're wrong".

As an outside observer, please be the change you want to see and start ceasing replying yourself first.

Your opinion isn’t right or wrong, just as @Imari opinion isn’t right or wrong.

That’s the lovely thing about opinions, everyone has one and they all stink.

 

[RacingFan1]

As an outside observer, please be the change you want to see and start ceasing replying yourself first.

Your opinion isn’t right or wrong, just as @Imari opinion isn’t right or wrong.

That’s the lovely thing about opinions, everyone has one and they all stink.

Sure, but he admits he didnt properly use the app with a tablet so... I did and I know that the thing was good, no need for anyone to try and tell me otherwise.

 

[Nebuc72]

Sure, but he admits he didnt properly use the app with a tablet so... I did and I know that the thing was good, no need for anyone to try and tell me otherwise.

If you have to have a specific peripheral device to use an app thats a core feature of the game, its not a very well made or user friendly app.

It's like saying a car is good, but only if you drive it specifically on a straight road with no bumps because otherwise it falls apart. It's not a good car then.

They're not disputing that the app would be good in the specific scenario where its accessible and your device is suited for it, but that it's a poor choice to have it only suitable for such devices.

 

[Dave A]

Sure, but he admits he didnt properly use the app with a tablet so... I did and I know that the thing was good, no need for anyone to try and tell me otherwise.

I did use the app, on a tablet, and I agree with @Imari and the point he's making that it should have been designed to be used in-game, not requiring an external device to run.