Do you want the UK to stay in the EU?

  • Thread starter Leo0308
  • 38 comments
  • 2,406 views

Should the UK stay in the EU

  • UK Resident - YES

    Votes: 18 34.0%
  • UK Resident - NO

    Votes: 9 17.0%
  • Wider EU Resident - YES

    Votes: 4 7.5%
  • Wider EU Resident - NO

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • Rest of World - YES

    Votes: 8 15.1%
  • Rest of World - NO

    Votes: 11 20.8%

  • Total voters
    53
Seems that Europe is once again ripping the Tory party in half so we might as well ask the question...

Even Obama put his 2c in this week.

With the options I'm also assuming any attempts at renegotiating will be fruitless - since they world be.
 
Yes.

But only if there is a serious reevaluation of what the European Union is. An economic community more than a suprastate.

Good Idea: Economic Co-operation.
Bad Idea: Total Economic Assimilation.

However, I fear that the referendum will simply be a 'Should we stay or should we go?' without the option for 'Stay, but renegotiate terms'.
 
I like the fact that the UK works with the EU to boost trade. We also have great flexibility in terms of immigration which helps to bring talented people to the UK.

However, I dislike the fact that the European courts are ruling over our British courts. I think that talk of leaving the EU has been pushed forward by people like Abu Qatada who have bypassed our courts. The fact that he then sits back and claims benefits from the British tax payers just rubs salt in to the wounds of the working people. This is why UKIP have been so popular recently.

Immigration seems to be the key factor. We're expected to have between 150,000 and 400,000 people enter the UK when Bulgaria and Romania have "free movement" into the UK in 2014. I'm in favour of immigration but I have to question why we're allowing so many in when we have so many hundreds of thousands already unemployed (especially in the youth category).

I feel that the UK has what it takes to stand on its own so I say we may as well take the leap now, leave the EU and then negotiate new terms which are in the interests of the British people.
 
Funnily enough, I was going to post a new thread earlier about how Scottish independence ties in with Europe.

My cousin is a rabid pro-Scottish independence supporter, but he also seems to be extremely pro-European.

What I don't understand is how one can be both - on the one hand, the Scottish independence movement is all about national identity and the repatriation of sovereignty and self determination for the Scottish people. Meanwhile, in Brussels, Mrs. Merkel is telling the rest of Europe to get ready to surrender sovereignty to make Europe work properly.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really see how these two things are compatible. Clearly, as things stand right now, they're not.
 
A European Union is really an excellent idea. The European Union is... not.
 
Funnily enough, I was going to post a new thread earlier about how Scottish independence ties in with Europe.

My cousin is a rabid pro-Scottish independence supporter, but he also seems to be extremely pro-European.

What I don't understand is how one can be both - on the one hand, the Scottish independence movement is all about national identity and the repatriation of sovereignty and self determination for the Scottish people. Meanwhile, in Brussels, Mrs. Merkel is telling the rest of Europe to get ready to surrender sovereignty to make Europe work properly.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really see how these two things are compatible. Clearly, as things stand right now, they're not.


similar points are being made about Plaid Cymru in Wales. They have no answer either.
 
Last edited:
Didn't they cause the money issues greece is now having?

Plaid Cymru have done alot of things but I don't think we can blame them for that! (/joke)

Oh, you mean the EU? It's a bit more complicated than a simple blame game - Greece should never have been allowed entry into the Eurozone in the first place, and they took advantage of extremely cheap credit available to them as members of the Eurozone, which they had/have no realistic way of paying back/servicing. So, there is blame on both sides - and Greece are not alone in their struggles.

Basically, as far as I can see it, the Eurozone can only really work properly if the same rules apply to everybody equally, and that goes for pretty much everything. Unfortunately, what that currently means is surrendering sovereignty to the European superstate.

Of course, for years we've been promised that this is NOT what being part of Europe would mean - and those who said it was were right-wing loonies and were openly mocked in the media for being so anti-European. The scary thing is, they don't look so stupid now - not when Angela Merkel herself is openly stating that Eurozone countries will have to cede sovereignty for the great Eurozone project to work.

And this is happening at a time where Scotland (and Wales) are debating leaving the UK in favour of becoming 'independent' - while in the same breath are demanding that leaving the UK doesn't mean leaving the EU - in other words, they want out of the UK and into a Eurozone that is about to strip sovereign states of all the most important powers they possess (like raising taxes etc.). This is a tad ironic given that these sovereign powers are precisely the reason for wanting to be independent/out of the UK in the first place.
 
Wild deduction: TM, you are against Scottish independence, if it means joining the Eurozone.

Am I right?
 
Wild deduction: TM, you are against Scottish independence, if it means joining the Eurozone.

Am I right?

I'm unconvinced about Scottish independence regardless of the European issue - but I'm even more unconvinced that signing up as full partners in the Eurozone project is such a great idea right now.
 
I don`t care. I totally lost illusions that politicians can handle the project "EU". Too many of them tend to make the best for their own situation. What counts is their own term of office (legislative period).

What if A. Merkel would say: "I want my money back!" - the EU would be deader than dead. If you want all the advantages you have to take all risks/responsibilities, too. Cherry-picking, not a good move.

Wow, I have to find the bathroom now.
 
Last edited:
It's interesting to note the Conservatives would have enough support in an independent England (by virtue of Scotland and Wales leaving the UK) to force a referendum on EU membership. Right now, Labour and the Lib Dems can block such a vote. Perhaps a future Conservatives/UKIP alliance could bring about such a referendum if the UK remains intact, but if it doesn't, then it becomes much, much more likely that England could face a vote about EU membership themselves.
 
A European Union is really an excellent idea. The European Union is... not.

Could not agree more. Ideals never turn out as were hoped. This kinda causes where I'm stuck on my viewpoint. Leaving the EU would give many advantages over being able to control our own country. However if we do leave I fear a backlash from the rest of the EU, thus making the situation instead worse for ourselves. The EU was a great idea when we joined it, however what it has turned into is the richer countries having to support the poorer, no matter whether that is dragging the larger countries down (and harming worldwide economy) or not.
 
Last edited:
I think my main problem with the EU is that every country within it has a very different kind of society and economy. Greece in particular has always been a tourist destination, that's what its economy was based on and that's how it would continue to prosper if it left the EU. There's no point trying to be a Germany, France or UK which has a very different infrastructure.

Germany seems to be the country pushing for an EU superstate. I guess this benefits them in the long run as they will probably hold power over the running of it. It's a dangerous path to take, as we have seen throughout history when a country starts being dominant it usually results in a backlash (war).

I think it has become too dominant especially with the currency which has been adopted. It now leaves member states in a really awkward position if they ever wanted to leave.
 
It now leaves member states in a really awkward position if they ever wanted to leave.
Welcome to the Hotel Eurofornia.

I've always been of the opinion that the UK (and/or it's individual members) need to be part of the European trading bloc - but the EU itself is becoming (or has already become) something that it was never intended to be (atleast I hope not anyway), which is hugely undemocratic, massively unbalanced and increasingly corrupt - not to mention the one-size-fits-all solutions that are/were never going to work in a bloc comprising so many different individual states.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to the Hotel Eurofornia.

I've always been of the opinion that the UK (and/or it's individual members) need to be part of the European trading bloc - but the EU itself is becoming (or has already become) something that it was never intended to be (atleast I hope not anyway), which is hugely undemocratic, massively unbalanced and increasingly corrupt - not to mention the one-size-fits-all solutions that are/were never going to work in a bloc comprising so many different individual states.

I agree. I think the UK will be a better place if we leave now. People are scared that we will somehow be distanced from Europe and that it will somehow have a negative impact on our economy. It may do, initially, but in the long term we're a talented bunch, I'm sure we'll work our way through it.

In my view the UK is going to be asked to surrender more and more of our control to the EU. I also fear that control will be passed in a way so that we (the citizens) don't even get a say in the matter.
 
I also fear that control will be passed in a way so that we (the citizens) don't even get a say in the matter.
It's already happening across Southern Europe - and it ain't going to end well. I think by the time any referendum happens in the UK, things in the Eurozone will probably not have improved much - if anything, it's likely to have gotten worse.
 
It's already happening across Southern Europe - and it ain't going to end well. I think by the time any referendum happens in the UK, things in the Eurozone will probably not have improved much - if anything, it's likely to have gotten worse.

For me that's the scariest part. It's already happening.
 
A few random thoughts ...


1 - I won't vote in the poll because I see good and bad in both decisions. I honestly think it won't make much difference if the UK belongs to the EU or not. It shouldn't be a problem for either side of the channel especially because the UK does not belong to the monetary union so whatever happens to the euro (currency) will have the same impact to the UK regardless of its status within the EU.

2 - If the UK leaves, that will simply mean Brits won't have a say (other than diplomatic) in whatever happens within the EU institutions, and of course the EU institutions won't have a say in whatever goes on in the UK (that is, from what I understand, what brits think is happening too much. Not sure if true but the truth is irrelevant in opinion polls)


3 - I suppose that if the UK - in isolation - hits trouble, the USA (if they can) and the EU (if at all possible) will come for the rescue, because that can't happen. So, the trading channels would never close and maybe the UK could even get better deals "from teh outside"? . If the EU hits (even more) serious trouble, who knows what will happen, but with the UK out, maybe (??) it will be easier for them (UK) to avoid such trouble within borders too.

4 - Politically, I do not fear what many do. I know the traditional sovereign states in Europe lack the size needed to remain globally relevant, if in isolation. So, even Germany or the UK or France (the 3 big guys in the current EU) need a "gang" to be respected in the global schoolyard. The EU, however, especially because it is formed entirely by democratic countries each with their own public opinion, is not a cohesive gang (and that I think is wonderful, I too don't want a "global player" speaking with only one voice in international affairs.

5 - The UK may, of course, by leaving the EU, find it easier to turn to the USA and "be the gang" of its bigger buddy, ignoring whatever happens within the EU. But ... we saw that happen even with the UK inside the EU (Azores meeting anyone? Portugal and Spain were there too) but if the people from Britain still think they can't do what they please in international politics because of the EU, well ... think away.

6 - In any case, just the fact that a big important country may consider leaving the EU is good. It will make people think a bit more. And being the UK, I'd say that's the only big EU country that won't destroy the EU by leaving. So, whatever happens will be interesting, and not too dramatic.
 
http://news.sky.com/story/1092569/eu-to-ban-olive-oil-bottles-from-restaurants

Traditional olive oil jugs are to be banned from restaurants across Europe following a decision in Brussels.

The European Commission has declared that only non-refillable, pre-packaged factory bottles with tamperproof lids can be used from 2014.

It will end the practice of restaurants sourcing their own artisan products to be used in bottles and dipping bowls.


You would have thought that the EU would have more pressing things to deal with. Apparently not.
 
The mindset of a bureaucracy that would come up with a regulation like that is ample reason to avoid it like the plague.

With regard to the poll, there should be an "I have no opinion" (or "I don't care", if you prefer :)) for each of the three groups, especially the third.
 
The mindset of a bureaucracy that would come up with a regulation like that is ample reason to avoid it like the plague.

With regard to the poll, there should be an "I have no opinion" (or "I don't care", if you prefer :)) for each of the three groups, especially the third.

Nah, no reason why someone of that view should waste everyone's time by voting.
 
3 - I suppose that if the UK - in isolation - hits trouble, the USA (if they can) and the EU (if at all possible) will come for the rescue, because that can't happen. So, the trading channels would never close and maybe the UK could even get better deals "from teh outside"? . If the EU hits (even more) serious trouble, who knows what will happen, but with the UK out, maybe (??) it will be easier for them (UK) to avoid such trouble within borders too.

It's obvious continental Europe is hitting terrible trouble. Why would the UK hitch its wagon to a dying horse? Or do you think the UK is dying faster than the EU, which would explain the clear majority of pro-union votes in the poll?
 
http://news.sky.com/story/1092569/eu-to-ban-olive-oil-bottles-from-restaurants




You would have thought that the EU would have more pressing things to deal with. Apparently not.

Here in the UK that doesn't really concern us. In countries like Italy, Spain and Greece, olive oil is big business, with huge brand labels. They're on the tables of every cafe and restaurant you go into, similar to tomato ketchup, or HP/brown sauce in the UK. That move by the EU is akin to a ban on refilling Heinz Tomato ketchup bottles with cheaper alternatives (Which IIRC is already illegal), or refilling bottles of Spirits in pubs with knock-off brands (Also illegal). All it does is help enforce existing laws about false advertisement, by preventing businesses from refilling the bottles with other brands to protect the consumer (Especially in terms of cost - if you pay a premium for a brand you expect to be given what you payed for).

I've read several articles on this today. All of the ones i've read in the British media have been 'Why are they wasting their time with something so trivial?'. I think they missed the part where the European Union essentially covers an entire continent.
 
This particular ban seems more akin to banning the refilling of an antique glass Heinz ketchup bottle with Heinz ketchup - requiring that the only bottles used are those opened new and then discarded once empty. And I don't think the glass ones have tamperproof seals, so plastic only.

Ultimately the consumer is at a mildly reduced risk of food poisoning through contaminated olive oil (transferring it from tub to antique bottle of course being an opening for contaminents) and being ripped off by having 15ml of cheaper olive oil in a dipping bowl than it says on the bottle, at the expense of a loss of character and massively increased waste. And the expense of expense, since you can't now buy a catering-sized tub of olive oil and put it into your old glass bottles...
 
At this moment, the Rest Of The World have voted 9-8 in favour of Britain leaving the EU.

As outsiders looking in, could those who have voted that way explain why they did so?
 
Here in the UK that doesn't really concern us. In countries like Italy, Spain and Greece, olive oil is big business, with huge brand labels. They're on the tables of every cafe and restaurant you go into, similar to tomato ketchup, or HP/brown sauce in the UK. That move by the EU is akin to a ban on refilling Heinz Tomato ketchup bottles with cheaper alternatives (Which IIRC is already illegal), or refilling bottles of Spirits in pubs with knock-off brands (Also illegal). All it does is help enforce existing laws about false advertisement, by preventing businesses from refilling the bottles with other brands to protect the consumer (Especially in terms of cost - if you pay a premium for a brand you expect to be given what you payed for).

I've read several articles on this today. All of the ones i've read in the British media have been 'Why are they wasting their time with something so trivial?'. I think they missed the part where the European Union essentially covers an entire continent.

👍
 
This particular ban seems more akin to banning the refilling of an antique glass Heinz ketchup bottle with Heinz ketchup - requiring that the only bottles used are those opened new and then discarded once empty. And I don't think the glass ones have tamperproof seals, so plastic only.

Ultimately the consumer is at a mildly reduced risk of food poisoning through contaminated olive oil (transferring it from tub to antique bottle of course being an opening for contaminents) and being ripped off by having 15ml of cheaper olive oil in a dipping bowl than it says on the bottle, at the expense of a loss of character and massively increased waste. And the expense of expense, since you can't now buy a catering-sized tub of olive oil and put it into your old glass bottles...

Oh by all means, there are huge flaws in the ban, it seems to be catered specifically towards large producers who already pre-package their Olive Oil, with little consideration for smaller producers who don't. I'm willing to bet it was lobbied by large producers of Olive Oil such as Hojiblanca.

I was just making the point that we in the UK barely consume any Olive Oil, so this ban really has very little effect on us. I just used the Heinz analogy to put it into perspective. The EU as a whole consumes 71% of the total Olive Oil produced worldwide, with the UK consuming an estimate of 1-2%. Spain and Italy alone consume 50% (Source: http://r0.unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/olive/market.htm). With Greece, France and Portugal making up most of the rest consumed within the EU.
 
Back