Does the concept of Gran Truismo still work?

[Johnnypenso]

PD just get stuck with thinking we need all versions of the one car. The Sting Ray: '14 Prototype, '14 pre production, '14 production model, '13 special aero package, '14 15th Anniv Ed.

BMW M4, etc...

I've never had a problem with this strategy in any game because I think it's an effective use of resources. Most of the modeling is done on a single car and the rest is trim and physics changes. Gives us the opportunity to drive several versions of the same car, even if the differences are slight or only cosmetic. Counting several different, near identical cars as separate cars in the car count on the other hand, is something I wish wasn't done by anyone.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I've never had a problem with this strategy in any game because I think it's an effective use of resources. Most of the modeling is done on a single car and the rest is trim and physics changes. Gives us the opportunity to drive several versions of the same car, even if the differences are slight or only cosmetic. Counting several different, near identical cars as separate cars in the car count on the other hand, is something I wish wasn't done by anyone.

This, so much. I think it'd be a bold move for either Forza or GT to stop focusing so much on the overall car count, but instead the model family count.

Imagine popping into the BMW dealership in GT(7), and selecting the 3-series range in much the same way you do on the official website. A car configurator loads up, and you're given all the usual options. Want the 2.0L turbo four with the smallest rims available? It's yours. Full-fat 340i with xDrive? That too.

Realistically, it'd not amount to much more work, as the basic model is largely the same across the range. Race cars can and should be treated separately, however: I know with the recent Blizzard Mountain expansion announcement for FH3, some folks are critical of the Stratos and Delta rally car being included versus having the body parts available for the road cars already in the game. Personally, I'd always rather have the "official" race car than something I've cobbled together to look roughly like the real thing.

One of my least-favourite aspects of Forza's otherwise unparalleled car list is that it almost always favours the highest-performing model only. GT has begun to follow that approach, and I think it's to the series' detriment.

 

[dacc10]

At this point, it's hard to get something more than just the performance version.

While on GT4 and previous games, they only moddeled exteriores properly and had no aesthetic tuning parts, it was much easier to raise the car count.

I mean, it would be really cool to have atleast one high performance version and one "normal" version, of the same car, and both performance versions of the same car, like it happens with the Focus range with the RS and ST.
But each version of the base car, changes a lot of things. Either being interior details, engine power output and power delivery, suspension stiffness, exterior details, and so on. While before they could add identical cars with slightly different performance figures and no one would complain because there were a ton of other different cars, today with a smaller car list that would feel like a rip off to many players. The overall idea that would come to their minds was that, PD wasted too much time moddeling cars with slightly different technical specs, instead of moddeling other cars.

On GT6 (and apparently GTS too), it's not always the case of the highest performance version being the game. Good examples are supercars that have higher performance version of base cars. No 458 Speciale, 599 GTO, SLS AMG Black Series, Gallardo Superleggera, R8 GT, any Lotur Evora other than the base version.

For now, they have to keep up with the new released cars since 2013 or so. We still miss the Ferrari F12 since the launch of GT6, and that's just one example of a car that turned heads in car magazines when it was driven for the first time. In 2016 we are missing some of the most iconic cars of the last 5 years, to have like 3 modern Toyota Hybrids. That must be hard to swallow for some people.

Everyday cars are cool, but never to replace high performance cars. For now, in a franchise so obsessed with details, it wouldn't be easy to bring sub-models of some cars without it affecting other cars.

 

[Jarmo]

Yes the GOTY version is the one I bought and was surprised how much content it has.

Okay, after playing the game for a couple of hours I do have some complaints.

The campaign starts with you thrown into a karting race. I think that is a bad idea as karting is totally different to all other cars. They snap into oversteer in a fraction of a second and after that it's very difficult to recover. It's not so bad on flat surfaces but one of the very first tracks you drive on is the Glencairn (or something like that) which has horrible mid-corner elevation changes making the track very difficult to drive. I mean what would have been wrong with a hot hatchback Sunday Cup? That would have been a lot more logical first step. And then after you have beaten the horrid initial karting races you get to drive in a normal car. IN THE POURING RAIN with very bad visibility on a totally unfamiliar track! The difficulty level in the beginning makes no sense. Of course you can turn the AI difficulty way down but that's not fun either being able to run off course in every corner and still win the race.

The second complaint is the way the races are presented in a calendar. I don't really like that. I much prefer to have the races in different categories clearly laid out so you can choose your races and racing classes.

The third complaint is that there is no feeling of car ownership. You just click an event and you appear in a car. You didn't pay for it, you didn't buy it, you just get it. Do you even get anything when you win a race? If you do, I haven't noticed. Again I much prefer the way GT does things giving you a bit of money that you can use to buy your first car. Then you earn more money and buy better cars and progress.

The gameplay and physics feel really nice but this game does not replace GT for me. I want GT!

 

[syntex123]

This, so much. I think it'd be a bold move for either Forza or GT to stop focusing so much on the overall car count, but instead the model family count.

Imagine popping into the BMW dealership in GT(7), and selecting the 3-series range in much the same way you do on the official website. A car configurator loads up, and you're given all the usual options. Want the 2.0L turbo four with the smallest rims available? It's yours. Full-fat 340i with xDrive? That too.

Realistically, it'd not amount to much more work, as the basic model is largely the same across the range. Race cars can and should be treated separately, however: I know with the recent Blizzard Mountain expansion announcement for FH3, some folks are critical of the Stratos and Delta rally car being included versus having the body parts available for the road cars already in the game. Personally, I'd always rather have the "official" race car than something I've cobbled together to look roughly like the real thing.

One of my least-favourite aspects of Forza's otherwise unparalleled car list is that it almost always favours the highest-performing model only. GT has begun to follow that approach, and I think it's to the series' detriment.

This, I can't stress it enough. I've wanted this and talked about this a lot over the years. It would not only make the most sense and be a smart move, but it'd look great too.

 

[05XR8]

I've never had a problem with this strategy in any game because I think it's an effective use of resources. Most of the modeling is done on a single car and the rest is trim and physics changes. Gives us the opportunity to drive several versions of the same car, even if the differences are slight or only cosmetic. Counting several different, near identical cars as separate cars in the car count on the other hand, is something I wish wasn't done by anyone.

The problem has always been modelling time. If modelling 4 of the same car with different trims takes time away from adding 3 different cars, that's a problem. We have seen the M4 with interior locked until the reveal. Then aero locked. The Pace car was probably locked as well, as those were yet add ons again.

Counting the cars is still not the problem, it has always been modelling time.

 

[s15specr]

I defo think PD need to step it up, they seem to be overly focused on making some things perfect but seem to never bother with other things too

 

[Imari]

The campaign starts with you thrown into a karting race.

You can actually start the campaign in any class you want. If you want to drive GT4 then just start in those.

But otherwise, yeah, what you said are legitimate problems. It's somewhat intentional, as the focus is more on being a race driver than owning cars. But in those ways the game will never compare to something like GT or FM.

 

[Jarmo]

You can actually start the campaign in any class you want. If you want to drive GT4 then just start in those.

Yeah I noticed that. I thought Go karts were the easiest to start with so I went with them.

 

[syntex123]

Me too. To get used to the game from the slowest to the fastest. Didn't end up exactly as I planned though.

 

[glassjaw]

This, I can't stress it enough. I've wanted this and talked about this a lot over the years. It would not only make the most sense and be a smart move, but it'd look great too.

Test Drive Unlimited got close to that. A flawed but really innovative game.

 

[CarBastard]

@Slurm Well, since I apparently sparked this discussion I may as well chime in! .

First of all, and this is gonna be a disgustingly philosophical trick on my behalf, you must ask yourself what is Gran Turismo's concept. To me, what defined Gran Turismo and what made me fall in love with the game was it's RPG-esque nature: taking a meager amount of credits, choosing carefully your first car, slowly improving your driving skills alongside your car as you earn license and credits for improved parts, working your way towards new leagues and increasingly faster drives. It was somehow a "car-owning" simulator, albeit a very early one. GTAuto with it's oil changes and car washes best represents this idea. Having an amazingly eclectic mix of cars is something that can be considered central to GT's concept but it's secondary, in my opinion, to the RPG-esque factor and even enhanced it. It was a game for auto otakus, and that worked for the die-hard fans and for the "casuals" that drove sales into the millions.

What has happened? Why doesn't the concept work anymore? Because PoDi has gotten sloppy. They don't seem to think things thoroughly, they just devout themselves to technological feats nobody asked for instead of focusing on a comprehensive game experience. Remember the Racing Modifications in GT1 and GT2? They were a very interesting way of increasing car count and added to the RPG-esque factor of the game allowing your car to race at a new level. What about the tuning stores in GT4? It was very fun taking your car to either HKS or Ralli Art and choosing the parts of your liking. Both things gone. And don't get me started on that :censored:y spin-off called "Gran Turismo: Sport" that, for all we know, could throw the entire career mode out of the window to focus on e-sports.

Now, it seems to me that what caught your attention of my comment is my critique of GT's mixture of cars. I don't think that has anything to do with the "concept" of GT but rather, again, with it's execution. Instead of taking a small sample of cars that can compete on the same level, say, "2013 Le Mans diesel Prototypes" and assuring a fair race, they just bundle up a bunch of cars that fall within a much wider category "Le Mans Protoypes" as if Group C cars and modern LMPs had something in common besides four wheels and a steering wheel. This could make for races with repeated cars, I admit, but that could be spiced up with a bit of customization and multi-class racing. But no, instead PoDi composes a car list with a bit of this and a bit of that instead of carefully thinking of groups of cars that can race together. A relatively slow LMP Audi made to a set of rules, a fast 908HDi made to an entirely different set of rules, another slow LMP Audi made to yet another set of entirely different rules, and a very fast Toyota that's on a class on it's own...because it was made to, you guessed it, another set of rules. "American Cup", "90s Japanese cars", "Rally cars", those categories are TOO wide and don't work. Add "Vision GT" and other fictional cars to the mix...yeah, that's not gonna work.

GT Sport is going to be critical for the franchise, in my opinion, because it's likely the last chance PoDi is gonna get to fix all these fundamental things fans and customers have asked for ages and they failed to deliver with GT5 and GT6. Fans are getting tired and customers have other options for their "Nawww dude, you're better at a shooting game but I'm better at a driving game" needs. If they rescue the concept of Gran Turismo, they may have a chance. If they focuse on pointless technological feats and step away from what made them different...well, it'd be a real shame .

 

[05XR8]

This doesn't have to save the series or reinvigorate people to buy a GT game. It just has to be fun.

I think about what GT1-GT5P feels like to me right now. Those games put a smile on my face.

Having the Cr. to buy an SN95 Mustang, fixing it up and converting it to the Saleen Mustang was an insane surprise.

Saving up for a Mandarin coloured Falcon GT, race suspension and slapping on the black centered SSR Professor wheels was my masterpiece.

Grinding using the DC5 Integra, shifting at 9000rpm around Daytona, so I could buy a white C6 RM in GT5P and then snapping photos in Germany was unreal.

PD just has to make the game fun. Make the sounds better. Challenging AI. Give us fun game play in each game mode. It's not just expected in GT. It's actually the norm in today's racing games.

Funny, GTPSP is a good game. It's GT4 in a handheld game. That's why it is so good. They even made grinding for points pay outs and game progression fun. They should actually apply that to GTS.