Does this game auto-blip?

[Soullessvessel]

I screw up downshifts ALOT in this game, I think its because I am heel and toe downshifting as a force of habit, but when I havent I cant say I have noticed a major difference, just wanna confirm or not if its a built in aide and I should just avoid heel and toe.

 

[coryclifford]

Yes, it seems to. But not exactly. It doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Sick Cylinder]

I screw up downshifts ALOT in this game, I think its because I am heel and toe downshifting as a force of habit, but when I havent I cant say I have noticed a major difference, just wanna confirm or not if its a built in aide and I should just avoid heel and toe.

Make sure you brake enough - I find that if you are using the paddle shifters you hardly have to worry about your downshifts, but if I use H pattern I downshift later, after doing more braking. NB I am bad at heel toeing and this seems to help and stops the car being unsettled.

 

[Ettick]

With paddles it does.

With the h-shifter I don't think it auto-blips, but I haven't really driven in this game with the h-shifter to draw any conclusions about that.

 

[cjr3559]

With paddles it does.

This.

With the h-shifter I don't think it auto-blips.

And this. I've driven exclusively with the H-shifter for a more than a year on GT6 with cars that have the correct gearbox, and there's no autoblipping that I'm aware.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Yes, it seems to. But not exactly. It doesn't seem to matter.

In fact, the game auto clutches only. It doesn't seem to really rev match with throttle, because downshifting at turning point to help induce a bit of slide on entry is a pretty common technique used by the very top racers in this game, alongside heavy rear brake bias. I remember a training session for GT Fusion with GTNF, at the hairpin, you would brake very late and downshift into 1st gear a short moment to help get the car pointing towards a late apex, but you already had to put back 2nd in before even stepping on the gas again (and once you got a little amount of wheelspin you'd put 3rd shortly after, and then maintain some revs while keeping enough traction to floor it).

But the game itself kinda revs match, but not perfectly. And the MoTeC datas don't show throttle blips on downshifts if I recall correctly.

 

[eran0004]

Here is a MoTeC close-up on an upshift and a downshift with manual sequential transmission and no clutch pedal (DFGT wheel). Each dot on the horizontal axis is a physics frame (60 per second).

Upshift:

Downshift:

On upshift, the throttle is cut off until the engine RPM have dropped far enough (depending on the gap between the gears, I suppose). We can also see that the drive wheels (the rear ones in this example) increase in speed during the shift, probably indicating a partially engaged clutch.

On downshift it appears to be the same, only inverse. Instead of a cut throttle it's blipped, and instead of the drive wheels speeding up they are slowing down.

@cjr3559 Could you export an H-shifter GT6 replay to MoTeC, so we can compare the graphs?

Edit: Interestingly, it looks like the autothrottle might be linked to the clutch position during the shift. In the upshift graph there is a small bump in the throttle graph in the 4th frame of the shift, and in the same frame there is a corresponding drop in drive wheel speed. It appears to indicate that the clutch is slightly less engaged at that point, which would transfer less of the engine's momentum to the wheels and slowing them down a little (as their speed is slightly faster than the road speed).

In the downshift graph there is a similar pattern in the last frames of the shift, where the throttle drops slightly, and it looks like the drive wheel speed might be rising a little at that point, although it's harder to tell because it's a more turbulent line than in the upshift graph.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

What happens say if like I do, manually blip the throttle on downshift using stick controller ? Do the auto clutch works during this manual blip ?

On FR cars with stick, on straight line, pressing handbrake for more than a couple seconds will disengage the engine from the driven wheel ( depressing the clutch ), gear indicator greyed and engine rev drop to idle. Does this happens with a wheel ( with H shifter and not ) ?

 

[eran0004]

What happens say if like I do, manually blip the throttle on downshift using stick controller ? Do the auto clutch works during this manual blip ?

On FR cars with stick, on straight line, pressing handbrake for more than a couple seconds will disengage the engine from the driven wheel ( depressing the clutch ), gear indicator greyed and engine rev drop to idle. Does this happens with a wheel ( with H shifter and not ) ?

By stick controller, do you mean the DS3 controller?

I suspect that it's just the same, that the autothrottle overrides any manual throttle inputs until the revs are matched, and if so then manually blipping the throttle wouldn't have any effect.

The handbrake disengaging clutch technique works on the DFGT wheel. Not sure what would happen on a wheel with a clutch pedal though.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

In GT5P and GT5 you can clearly see the throttle indicator being blipped in downshifts, you can't see this in GT6. HOWEVER, I suspect there is still a bit of assist going on in the background, because the cars are not as unstable as they would be in real life if you don't manual blip (or even when compared to PC sims).

 

[cjr3559]

@cjr3559 Could you export an H-shifter GT6 replay to MoTeC, so we can compare the graphs?

I will once I get back home. Currently away on vacation!

 

[GT_Alex74]

@eran0004 Nice, my memories fooled me then. Your observations in your edit are very interesting as they match the feeling of the wheels having a barely noticeable locking kind of effect, very far from what a shift lock would do in real life (I use that a lot for hairpins ), but still there. You're definitely onto something.

 

[tarnheld]

Interestingly, it looks like the autothrottle might be linked to the clutch position during the shift. In the upshift graph there is a small bump in the throttle graph in the 4th frame of the shift, and in the same frame there is a corresponding drop in drive wheel speed. It appears to indicate that the clutch is slightly less engaged at that point, which would transfer less of the engine's momentum to the wheels and slowing them down a little (as their speed is slightly faster than the road speed).

In the downshift graph there is a similar pattern in the last frames of the shift, where the throttle drops slightly, and it looks like the drive wheel speed might be rising a little at that point, although it's harder to tell because it's a more turbulent line than in the upshift graph.

I did a little wheel slip testing back when the Motec export feature was new and there we found out that the wheel speeds for the driven wheels of FWD and RWD vehicles have to be corrected by this formula:

CorrectedWheelSpeed = WheelSpeed * (1 + ThrottlePos * K), where K=0.05

It seems like an artifact of the wheel speed export, i don't think the wheels speed discontinuities while shifting are real.

For details see here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/tire-analysis-with-motec-i2.325922/#post-10564851

As for the original question: the game does auto-blipping when paddle shifting, i.e. applying throttle to match revs between gears. You can see that quite nice in the Motec exports.

 

[eran0004]

It seems like an artifact of the wheel speed export, i don't think the wheels speed discontinuities while shifting are real

That the wheel speed is off can certainly be an artifact, or just a calibration error, but I don't think that the changes in wheel speed that occur when you're shifting is an artifact, that is probably happening in the game. I can't think of any reason why it would show up otherwise.

 

[tarnheld]

That the wheel speed is off can certainly be an artifact, or just a calibration error, but I don't think that the changes in wheel speed that occur when you're shifting is an artifact, that is probably happening in the game. I can't think of any reason why it would show up otherwise.

But why do the Data Logger logs in the game don't show these wheel speed spikes and consistent wheel speeds, i.e. faster than vehicle speed when accelerating? And if you look at logs from real life (for example the motec analysis primer here: http://www.motec.com/filedownload.php/FSAE Data Analysis Day 2 to print.pdf?docid=3694 see page 25: Reading a wheel speed trace) there are no spikes in wheel speed when apruptly applying or lifting throtttle. My best guess is that the wheel speeds are incorrectly exported to motec.

BTW and related to the original question: When comparing the different GT6 versions we found that there was no shift blipping in version 1.00 (see third diagram).

 

[Soullessvessel]

Hmm..I have to ask then why is the cluch simulation so bad then?? I dont have issues like this in Assetto corsa, FM, Project cars or anything else I can think of really... but I have a chronic issue in gt5/6 of shifting, particularly on the downshift where the car will just no go into gear and it can take me several attempts


Edit

While im here do we have a place for wheel settings? im terrible at my own and im not finding anything on my other game presets ive enjoyed using (CSR user)

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Hmm..I have to ask then why is the cluch simulation so bad then?? I dont have issues like this in Assetto corsa, FM, Project cars or anything else I can think of really... but I have a chronic issue in gt5/6 of shifting, particularly on the downshift where the car will just no go into gear and it can take me several attempts


Edit

While im here do we have a place for wheel settings? im terrible at my own and im not finding anything on my other game presets ive enjoyed using (CSR user)

In GT6, I find that the clutch has to be fully depressed with zero throttle to successfully shift up or down otherwise it will shift into neutral.

Alternatively you can leave the clutch alone and shift with just the lever - as if driving a car with a torque converter - such as the Chaparral 2D or 2J.

The clutch model in GT6 isn't realistic - one improvement would be for a failed shift to go into gear, but with a delay and an appropriate noise - that is what happens if you mess up a shift in real life, but the game just shifts into neutral. If there is any throttle and the clutch is not fully depressed when the shift is made it will just go into neutral - I find this is not a problem when you get used to it.

 

[Soullessvessel]

Snip

I have considered that but it feels dull as dishwater to not use it now that I have gotten comfortable with using a clutch and heel and toe.

My issue is (even in games with a clutch I like) I do alot of what I can "movie shifts" where I try and do super dramatic high speed shifting. But even then I tone it down alot in gt6 knowing of its "issues" and it still bites me in the rear.

 

[Sick Cylinder]

I have considered that but it feels dull as dishwater to not use it now that I have gotten comfortable with using a clutch and heel and toe.

My issue is (even in games with a clutch I like) I do alot of what I can "movie shifts" where I try and do super dramatic high speed shifting. But even then I tone it down alot in gt6 knowing of its "issues" and it still bites me in the rear.

How not to do it:



V How to do it in one eighth drag racing - 4 clean shifts in under 5 seconds!

 

[Soullessvessel]

How not to do it:

snip

I should rephrase what I said.

In game with a more "tolerable clutch" I can get away with how I shift (on occasion it does get me but not to an infuriating amount.)

Its just gt5/6 that are the major pains for me, thats why its a hard habit for me to break is normally i'm relatively okay with this process. Its just this 1 game.