GT7 unbearable on pad

[Lomic]

I did not want to launch an of topic subject (or fuel yours ). I have one PS5 and one TV, there is a couch in front of the screen and a coffee table between the couch and the screen. And no spare room to put a rig (DIY or 20k $ one)+other PS5+other 4k screen, regardless of budget.

I think we should focus on solving OP's issue with motion steering. He does seem to be interested in buying a wheel (maybe for reasons similar to mine, or not).

@Rivanov seems to appreciate motion steering on GT7. Wondering why they have different point of view as they both seem to enjoy that steering method.

 

[gkgamer]

facts

if the pad went lock to lock instantaneous on GT7

the car doesn't have instant lock-lock

it takes 1-3 whole seconds to reach the max steering

yeah facts lol

And no need to be concerned by what I think, you just need to realise how mistaken you are.
It looks like it's a bit out of your reach though, ain't it?

 

[Abarth_71]

It is not only a budget issue, to use a wheel you need a different setup than a controller (not a couch in front of your TV in your living room), or not only the budget to buy the wheel. You need a dedicated space, spare screen (4K if possible) and maybe a spare console (if you use it as a media center and other people in the house use it casually on the couch with a pad).

Why do you need a dedicated space, you're just overcomplicating it. I use a GT DD Pro wheel with L/C on a Playseat challenge. All I do is move the coffee table out of the way and set up in front of my 65" LG C1. When I'm done just move stuff back, it's not hard.

 

[Lomic]

Why do you need a dedicated space, you're just overcomplicating it. I use a GT DD Pro wheel with L/C on a Playseat challenge. All I do is move the coffee table out of the way and set up in front of my 65" LG C1. When I'm done just move stuff back, it's not hard.

Yeah sure... I need to move the coffee table (first unload the bottom shelve which is full of stuff), put it I don't now where, push back the couch so a playseat could fit in front of the TV, set up the wheel plug everything, add the time to set all back to initial state and it is already longer than the time I play on an average day (if I play). I just want to play to have fun and relax, not exercize by moving furniture around. And I don't mention that you need a spot to store the playseat and the wheel too.

 

[Batschisane52]

Why do you need a dedicated space, you're just overcomplicating it. I use a GT DD Pro wheel with L/C on a Playseat challenge. All I do is move the coffee table out of the way and set up in front of my 65" LG C1. When I'm done just move stuff back, it's not hard.

If you live in a small flat that is not an option...

 

[LSFDRX]

yeah facts lol

And no need to be concerned by what I think, you just need to realise how mistaken you are.
It looks like it's a bit out of your reach though, ain't it?

Out of my reach... how's that? What I said is 100% true, even factoring in what Hobson, a member that I 100% respect, says.

The ability to correct on a pad is 100% unrealistically faster than any wheel PERIOD. Even with "filtering", which only limits the steering from going to FULL LOCK, not OPPOSITE LOCK, which is what I meant by saying lock to lock. The filtering limits steering angle during cornering so that people with limited ability aren't throwing the wheels to full steering lock and pushing through a corner, or going to full lock during correction, that's it. It DOES NOT limit the speed at which you can go from steering into the corner, and catching oversteer with opposite lock. You can literally do it yourself, as I have, and see how it works, watch it in replay (not looking at the slow as hell steering wheel animation response) and see how quickly the steering jerks the car around. It's unnatural, faster, and easier to correct. PERIOD.

Pair that with 3rd person view, and fingers doing the throttle and braking instead of feet, and you have the recipe for attaining better than real life ability on a controller. And this thread about GT7 being "unbearable" on controller, when I play with a wheel 99% of the time, but had to resort to controller for two of the drift missions because IT'S EASIER TO CONTROL THE CAR WITH IT. Yeah, it's so unbearable to use.

Like I said... FACTS. You can resort to saying "I'm mistaken", but you've got nothing, and are 100% the one "out of your reach". No amount of poo emojis are gonna change that. 🤣

 

[Kean_1]

Yeah sure... I need to move the coffee table (first unload the bottom shelve which is full of stuff), put it I don't now where, push back the couch so a playseat could fit in front of the TV, set up the wheel plug everything, add the time to set all back to initial state and it is already longer than the time I play on an average day (if I play). I just want to play to have fun and relax, not exercize by moving furniture around. And I don't mention that you need a spot to store the playseat and the wheel too.

Agreed....

It's not an issue of affordability or even space in my case. I have no issues with either. However, for me at least, I just don't want to have this stuff in my living room, family room or even my home office for that matter. .....neither would my wife and I don't blame her. Even those that fold up, etc. would be an eyesore for us.

It far more convenient for me just to pick up a controller, sit on the couch and start playing. ....and to store that controller, headphones, etc. Also, I spend about as much time playing GT7 as I do other games so I'm not really that devoted to the genre to justify specific hardware to support it.

I can appreciate some of these rigs and even think it might be cool to try out, but I wouldn't want the headaches (for me) that would come along with it. The exception might be a PSVR2 when it comes out but again, that's more compact and easy to store, set-up, etc. ....its also something the family can enjoy together with different types of games / experiences and so on.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

I absolutely adore Motion Steering. I'm using this primarily from the first minute I started playing GT 7 on releaseday.
You can drive very precise.

I’m intrigued.

But beyond that I came in to say GT7 controls pretty flawlessly with DualSense imo. I’ve never been this clean in any driving game before, I think this controller is dope af and i can’t imagine complaining about using it unless you’re used to a wheel.

 

[gkgamer]

Out of my reach... how's that? What I said is 100% true, even factoring in what Hobson, a member that I 100% respect, says.

The ability to correct on a pad is 100% unrealistically faster than any wheel PERIOD. Even with "filtering", which only limits the steering from going to FULL LOCK, not OPPOSITE LOCK, which is what I meant by saying lock to lock. The filtering limits steering angle during cornering so that people with limited ability aren't throwing the wheels to full steering lock and pushing through a corner, or going to full lock during correction, that's it. It DOES NOT limit the speed at which you can go from steering into the corner, and catching oversteer with opposite lock. You can literally do it yourself, as I have, and see how it works, watch it in replay (not looking at the slow as hell steering wheel animation response) and see how quickly the steering jerks the car around. It's unnatural, faster, and easier to correct. PERIOD.

Pair that with 3rd person view, and fingers doing the throttle and braking instead of feet, and you have the recipe for attaining better than real life ability on a controller. And this thread about GT7 being "unbearable" on controller, when I play with a wheel 99% of the time, but had to resort to controller for two of the drift missions because IT'S EASIER TO CONTROL THE CAR WITH IT. Yeah, it's so unbearable to use.

Like I said... FACTS. You can resort to saying "I'm mistaken", but you've got nothing, and are 100% the one "out of your reach". No amount of poo emojis are gonna change that. 🤣

Is that you being not concerned here or what?

Ah the sweet and undebatable superiority of the fingered throttle and brake inputs only partly using the pad triggers angle course over multi-hundred dollars load cell pedals that mimic the physical threshold of real-life inputs...

I'm not even gonna try and contest what you claim as proof or evidence through your experiments, although I have serious doubts about the scientifc rigour of your experimental conditions, given that you're one of those people that throw percentages around like they don't understand **** to numbers...
I mean "The ability to correct on a pad is 100% unrealistically faster than any wheel PERIOD." that's some hi-level math here
"a member that I 100% respect" Insert GTA San Andreas synth lick here. Would have anything changed had you only had 73% respect for Hob? Serious question.

I've been friends with some top JP drivers since the GT5 days, and although most of them were kids back in the day, they all got from pad to wheel and guess what... entered the world tour afterwards.

Input method is obviously not the only factor here as they all got older, refined their racecraft, got more involved in the game; but nonetheless it cannot be discarded all at once.
Don't you think that if it were that much simpler to get top-times on a controller, there would be much more controller guys at the top of the rankings? I feel that there are many more players using a gamepad than a steering wheel overall in the total playerbase, yet the leaderboards are held in a large majority by steering wheel users.

Shouldn't it be the other way around if you were correct?
I mean larger playerbase and easier fast times should or would definitely result in an overwhelming majority of top times being made on a controller, wouldn't them?
Of course the argument of the pad/wheel ratio tilting towards the wheel in the higher ranks is surely true, as the players investing a sum that can reach several times that of their gaming console being incentivized to "try harder" may as well.

So I'll keep to what I've heard from Akagi, DW-Yuhki and many others over your expertise, no offense.
In the JP region there are a couple of guys hitting the top 10 regularly that use a pad with one notably using the d-pad to steer.
I know 5 at least in the top 50, there are maybe more. But there are still many more wheel users.

In the end, it just seems to me that you're a guy frustrated that the money you put in your wheel didn't give you an edge over those filthy casual pad users that get unfair advantages.
It's okay to whine and be lame, but it's also fair game to try and compose with your confirmation biases.

But overall I'm quite sure that it's definitely not a "100%" type of answer, and writing BS in caps is not making that BS true in any way,
<3
cheers

Oh yeah and poo again because poo is fun.

 

[ScottPuss20]

GT7 is fine on a controller for the most part.

 

[LSFDRX]

Is that you being not concerned here or what?

Ah the sweet and undebatable superiority of the fingered throttle and brake inputs only partly using the pad triggers angle course over multi-hundred dollars load cell pedals that mimic the physical threshold of real-life inputs...

I'm not even gonna try and contest what you claim as proof or evidence through your experiments, although I have serious doubts about the scientifc rigour of your experimental conditions, given that you're one of those people that throw percentages around like they don't understand **** to numbers...
I mean "The ability to correct on a pad is 100% unrealistically faster than any wheel PERIOD." that's some hi-level math here
"a member that I 100% respect" Insert GTA San Andreas synth lick here. Would have anything changed had you only had 73% respect for Hob? Serious question.

I've been friends with some top JP drivers since the GT5 days, and although most of them were kids back in the day, they all got from pad to wheel and guess what... entered the world tour afterwards.

Input method is obviously not the only factor here as they all got older, refined their racecraft, got more involved in the game; but nonetheless it cannot be discarded all at once.
Don't you think that if it were that much simpler to get top-times on a controller, there would be much more controller guys at the top of the rankings? I feel that there are many more players using a gamepad than a steering wheel overall in the total playerbase, yet the leaderboards are held in a large majority by steering wheel users.

Shouldn't it be the other way around if you were correct?
I mean larger playerbase and easier fast times should or would definitely result in an overwhelming majority of top times being made on a controller, wouldn't them?
Of course the argument of the pad/wheel ratio tilting towards the wheel in the higher ranks is surely true, as the players investing a sum that can reach several times that of their gaming console being incentivized to "try harder" may as well.

So I'll keep to what I've heard from Akagi, DW-Yuhki and many others over your expertise, no offense.
In the JP region there are a couple of guys hitting the top 10 regularly that use a pad with one notably using the d-pad to steer.
I know 5 at least in the top 50, there are maybe more. But there are still many more wheel users.

In the end, it just seems to me that you're a guy frustrated that the money you put in your wheel didn't give you an edge over those filthy casual pad users that get unfair advantages.
It's okay to whine and be lame, but it's also fair game to try and compose with your confirmation biases.

But overall I'm quite sure that it's definitely not a "100%" type of answer, and writing BS in caps is not making that BS true in any way,
<3
cheers

Oh yeah and poo again because poo is fun.

Ha ha ha, lovely.

100% means just that. It's binary. All or nothing. Fact or false. It's the one to the zero. Controller inputs are 100% capable of faster input than a wheel. It's undeniable, as much as you'd like to think all your fast friends being fast with either in any way refutes that.

Go 900 degrees on a wheel (full lock to lock) and time it, then do the same on a controller. It's seconds compared to fractions of a second. It's not even remotely close. And if you factor in "filtering" that only allows for the wheels to be turned until traction threshold (preventing turning too much into understeer or correcting too much in oversteer), the difference is still huge. When you're judging ability where fractions of a second separate the best from the okay, all those fractions matter a whole lot.

Yes, it would make a marked difference if I said anything less than 100% respect for anyone. Any less would call other variables into questions, no? 100% means no question, and I'm sorry those big bad numbers confused and hurt you.

Do you think that when playing a game if there is a more involving, and in this case mirror image of real life inputs, method to play it then that method wouldn't be the chosen way to play regardless of whether or not it gives you an "edge"? No, the experience matters much more than the outcome for most, and has nothing to do with which one is best for optimizing outcomes.

I don't know where you get a confirmation bias from, I'm not choosing a side, but you seem to want me to. It's pretty normal for someone to assign bias when they're on the wrong side of an argument and continually grasping at straws. I have no ire against anyone being fast on a pad or wheel, my gripe is that this thread is about the pad being worse, which its not. And that's still a fact no matter what anyone says, because it's observable to anyone that plays the game. Anyone that has open eyes and the ability to comprehend it that is... I have my doubts about you.

I also love my wheel, and am faster with it than I ever was on pad, but if I devoted as much time to either discipline it would invariably be the "fastest". I get much more out of the sensations available from sim racing with a wheel than topping a leader board. I'm fast, but I'm not the fastest by a long shot, and that doesn't matter to me in the least. It's not like I don't have a pad sitting right there to use if I felt it gave me an edge I needed. Sorry to take all your straws again.

The ability to be the fastest or top in anything is best attained with the quickest method to achieve it, which in this case is still the controller. This doesn't mean I have anything against either, that the controller is more fun, or worse, or better, or that anyone should be worried about their choice of peripheral.

And, no, I'm still not concerned at all. This is fun. Big difference.

Sorry bout yer bias, bro.

 

[sh33p]

Any sim-style racing game is going to be infinitely better on a wheel and not great in comparison with a controller.

I don't understand how people use the motion controls, I find them unbearable in general.
I am much slower using a controller and the game is much less fun. But I completed everything within the game and got gold on everything with a controller.

 

[gkgamer]

Ha ha ha, lovely.

100% means just that. It's binary. All or nothing. Fact or false. It's the one to the zero. Controller inputs are 100% capable of faster input than a wheel. It's undeniable, as much as you'd like to think all your fast friends being fast with either in any way refutes that.

Go 900 degrees on a wheel (full lock to lock) and time it, then do the same on a controller. It's seconds compared to fractions of a second. It's not even remotely close. And if you factor in "filtering" that only allows for the wheels to be turned until traction threshold (preventing turning too much into understeer or correcting too much in oversteer), the difference is still huge. When you're judging ability where fractions of a second separate the best from the okay, all those fractions matter a whole lot.

Yes, it would make a marked difference if I said anything less than 100% respect for anyone. Any less would call other variables into questions, no? 100% means no question, and I'm sorry those big bad numbers confused and hurt you.

Do you think that when playing a game if there is a more involving, and in this case mirror image of real life inputs, method to play it then that method wouldn't be the chosen way to play regardless of whether or not it gives you an "edge"? No, the experience matters much more than the outcome for most, and has nothing to do with which one is best for optimizing outcomes.

I don't know where you get a confirmation bias from, I'm not choosing a side, but you seem to want me to. It's pretty normal for someone to assign bias when they're on the wrong side of an argument and continually grasping at straws. I have no ire against anyone being fast on a pad or wheel, my gripe is that this thread is about the pad being worse, which its not. And that's still a fact no matter what anyone says, because it's observable to anyone that plays the game. Anyone that has open eyes and the ability to comprehend it that is... I have my doubts about you.

I also love my wheel, and am faster with it than I ever was on pad, but if I devoted as much time to either discipline it would invariably be the "fastest". I get much more out of the sensations available from sim racing with a wheel than topping a leader board. I'm fast, but I'm not the fastest by a long shot, and that doesn't matter to me in the least. It's not like I don't have a pad sitting right there to use if I felt it gave me an edge I needed. Sorry to take all your straws again.

The ability to be the fastest or top in anything is best attained with the quickest method to achieve it, which in this case is still the controller. This doesn't mean I have anything against either, that the controller is more fun, or worse, or better, or that anyone should be worried about their choice of peripheral.

And, no, I'm still not concerned at all. This is fun. Big difference.

Sorry bout yer bias, bro.

This is gold bruh, xD

First of all, I appreciate your efforts in refraining from using caps and trying to circumvent your ignorant use of irrelevant percentages. gg <3

I also bow to your noble standards in gaming and stand corrected about you being salty because you're slow, giving prevalence to the closer to real-life input method over performance level is surely a respectable approach.

That being said, and not even challenging your claims that the experience matters much more than the outcome for most, which I see as a complete fallacy and a result of a well-known mental process that bends overly self-centered people towards being unable to fathom that their peers can have different yet solid views on any given topic, I'd like you to consider for a minute the past races that allowed a substantial time gain by wall riding or corner cutting.

Do you remember what happened in the leaderboards of these events, races or TTs?
So it seems to me that even if the white knights of gaming ethics are the majority as you claim, the ruthless try-hards are still enough in numbers to stack the first couple hundred positions in the said events.
Is the controller/wheel ratio so different in these events? not really in GT Sport nor in the only wall-riding Daily we've had so far in GT7.

Why would the whole bunch of try-hards not even minding posting top-10 marks with shameless wall rides be refraining from using the pad sitting right there to use if they felt it gave them an edge ?
You've got a way too high opinion of the GT playerbase mindset I'd say.

I think the flaw in your thought process comes from the fact that you assume that since topping a leaderboard is secondary to you, it is the same for all wheel users but that's just a ridiculous assumption and it is not backed by any data.
Maybe it's just me but all my online gaming experience, racing or other, tends to back up the fact that any trick or exploit would quickly spread to become the standard even when it only gives a marginal advantage over the people not using it.

Lastly, I really can't follow how you can affirm with such aplomb this kind of nonsense : "The ability to be the fastest or top in anything is best attained with the quickest method to achieve it, which in this case is still the controller." when a large majority of the best TT and Daily Q times were set on steering controllers.

To balance things a bit, I'd like to add that I'm basing most of my reflexion on GT Sport data, and I clearly haven't played enough GT7 to have the same level of knowledge about the game, add that to the very small sample size that are the official races held so far in GT7 and I might be very wrong about this topic.

I admit that there may have been a surge in gamepad players in the leaderboards since 1.13 but we are still minoritary and to me it's what invalidates your take.

I understand that you have no interest in doing so but I'd really be interested in knowing how fast you can reach your steering performance level on the controller, and how long it would take for you to "invariably" beat your steering wheel times.

That would bring facts to the table, something that you have so far failed to do.

Cheers buddy,

edit: still love the poo, so poo-poo to you

 

[FOG-Smokebeer]

Even if they setup the game controls just for me and forced everybody to use my settings be it pad or wheel the moment online leader board's became active i'd be exactly average like always best not kid my self or look for silly excuses.