Dr is stupid and exploitable

[Tristan Jones]

That's why it should be based on an average of your 3 best lap times for a track. You can't exploit that, unless you forfeit every race which has no gain for you. People need to be matched together based on actual race pace. DR is supposed to achieve that, yet fails miserably due to being hampered by SR rank determining how rooms are filled and by only looking at finish position to exchange points.

DR itself if biased towards hot lapping, not actually racing. Most races are too short and too chaotic. Starting in the top 3 is what gains you DR. Not qualifying and moving 12 places up in a race with clean race bonus, can still lose you DR.

I read in a GTPlaneet thread somewhere that the DR system seems like a zero-sum ELO system. I think this sounds right.

You say that DR is is "only looking at finish position to exchange points" - which I think is right, but others think getting pole/ increasing from qualifying spot along with a handful of other factors contribute to the point exchange. Do you know if these effect it?

 

[Steven Keeney]

Learn to drive, quit bitching because you don't win every race. I am done with you ego maniac gotta win SOBS. Poop

 

[BSDShoes]

FIA races often match DR properly, joined an FIA race a few days ago full of DR C's and it went well until I made a mistake ruining my 2nd place. Dailies it seems to be different, as OP said, getting matched against a bunch of A's and B's and then D's in the back of the field, DR D's has almost no chance in advancing when being matched this way.

 

[Nando deBem]

I think this situation will improve when the real FIA season comes and it’s not one race every day. People will go back to daily races.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

llll

you don't commit to working hard qualifying or playing the game but complain that the game doesn't reward you with DR for that tactic.

I see

P.s I also love running around at the back of the field seeing how many places I can make up, and as long as you cross the line ahead of a few drivers in a higher DR rank the game will reward you! NEVER QUIT!!!

Ofcourse I don't commit to working hard, I'm playing to relax!

I thought the point of the DR system was to match players of similar skill together. If that is what it was meant for, then it fails. I don't care how many DR points I have, but I started looking behind the curtain since matchmaking kept being so random after running hundreds of races.

If it were up to me I would opt to keep my SR at B for better matchmaking. I just can't get myself to run people off the road to get there! Nowadays when I get run into a couple times and I see a red S I get excited at the prospect of reaching better matchmaking grounds. The system is screwed up.

DR is pretty meaningless anyway, SR, time of day, random draw, all have a far greater influence on who you are matched with. It does keep things interesting. The starting grid appearing is never a dull moment. Perhaps that's why I'm playing so many races. If it was the same every time it would get boring I guess. I guess I got what I need to stay interested, not what I want

I read in a GTPlaneet thread somewhere that the DR system seems like a zero-sum ELO system. I think this sounds right.

You say that DR is is "only looking at finish position to exchange points" - which I think is right, but others think getting pole/ increasing from qualifying spot along with a handful of other factors contribute to the point exchange. Do you know if these effect it?

I don't think so. What I mean by qualifying having a big effect is that 3 lap races are easy to defend your position in and hard to work your way up from the back. You can be 2s faster per lap than pole yet if you start 10-15s behind first place those 3 laps are not going to do it. Plus getting through traffic kills your pace while pole simply runs at qualifying speed.

From what I've read about it, it only depends on who you finish in front and behind of. DR.S on pole losing connection, good news for the rest. Very bad for the DR.S player.

 

[Bruunz]

I read in a GTPlaneet thread somewhere that the DR system seems like a zero-sum ELO system. I think this sounds right.

You say that DR is is "only looking at finish position to exchange points" - which I think is right, but others think getting pole/ increasing from qualifying spot along with a handful of other factors contribute to the point exchange. Do you know if these effect it?

I believe SR is loosely based on a ELO system as everyone begins at B and that is the median. I don't think DR is ELO based as they way it looks, you would have to be able to go to negative if everyone starts at 0. Additionally, there aren't any caps to an ELO system. Both DR and SR have caps.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I thought the point of the DR system was to match players of similar skill together.

The problem comes from there are times when there are just not enough players of close enough rankings and times online wanting to race so the lobbies are filled with what is available.

There were several daily races I did tonight on Suzuka where the race was all SR S and 1 race there were 18 DR B and like 2 DR C racers with with about a 4 second time difference from pole to last place, There were a couple of races where there were all DR B racers, these races were in the middle of late evening prime time hours.

If people quit being worried about the rankings and just raced things would be better. Even a race that has racers across several rankings usually breaks into packs with each pack sort of having their own race within the actual race. Sure you may not be racing for first place but a what does first place actually give you but a few extra game credits and a virtual world stat for number of wins.

Starting 14th and finishing 8th can be a lot more fun than getting pole and running off lapping by yourself for the win while the guys in 2nd through 5th are having a lot more fun battling back and forth. You can always find a race within the race regardless of rank.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The problem comes from there are times when there are just not enough players of close enough rankings and times online wanting to race so the lobbies are filled with what is available.

There were several daily races I did tonight on Suzuka where the race was all SR S and 1 race there were 18 DR B and like 2 DR C racers with with about a 4 second time difference from pole to last place, There were a couple of races where there were all DR B racers, these races were in the middle of late evening prime time hours.

If people quit being worried about the rankings and just raced things would be better. Even a race that has racers across several rankings usually breaks into packs with each pack sort of having their own race within the actual race. Sure you may not be racing for first place but a what does first place actually give you but a few extra game credits and a virtual world stat for number of wins.

Starting 14th and finishing 8th can be a lot more fun than getting pole and running off lapping by yourself for the win while the guys in 2nd through 5th are having a lot more fun battling back and forth. You can always find a race within the race regardless of rank.

The longer races are usually better. I just had a race on Suzuka with half DR.A half DR.B (I'm kind of teetering on the edge, barely hanging on to DR.A). Qualified 12th after updating my time between races, worked my way up to 5th in the final lap. And coming up to the final chicane, disconnected from network. Quick check, lost 2000 DR, now 91% into DR.B again. There's no point worrying about ranking lol.

The only problem I have with longer races is the short time out. It's so rude to have the race suddenly end while you're still in a battle for 5th place in the last lap. Yet tonight it was behaving better and I got to finish the previous race in 9th before the timer ran out. Progress! Too many races only the top 3 get to the finish line in time.

One more race before the schedule changes, and I need to sleep anyway. Starting now!

 

[Manasseh257NSX]

I got disconnected earlier. Cost me 2022 DR points and 4 SR points.

Disconnects shouldn't count toward ones DR.. PD has been able to tell in the past if someone ended their server connection or if it was involuntarily ended.. Almost lost my A rating due to 3 DCs in a row one day.. (I just couldn't get my connection right) But @Voodoovaj I agree but at the same time sorta disagree..

Reason being is I do like going against Higher ranked drivers even though some S drivers aren't exactly overly fast. Not to mention I'm a mid-ranked A driver so I can be for the most part competitive.

Now here's where I agree, I haven't gotten a single win since I first became an A driver (Like 3 weeks ago.) I can manage podium or even 2nd place but first place is always a fast S driver from the leaderboard that I can't catch on a stock tune. Also, I know I complain about this a lot but it really frustrates me because I have an unorthodox driving style that makes me constantly on edge driving a stock tune..

But I feel you though, being in countless races without a dub in awhile is pretty frustrating when you feel like you have no chance.. I don't want easy wins but I don't want to rely on the first place pole guy to mess up just for me to have a shot at winning.. I'm fast but I'm nowhere near leaderboard fast..

 

[eran0004]

Drivers are actually mixed in real life racing. Platinum vs Gold and Silver is not unusual.

 

[bmxmitch]

Well, thats racing. there's always a guy faster than you

And personally, I (DR B) really enjoy to get matched with A and S drivers. It just adds more of a challenge and it drives me to become a better/faster racer

 

[Nando deBem]

Well, thats racing. there's always a guy faster than you

And personally, I (DR B) really enjoy to get matched with A and S drivers. It just adds more of a challenge and it drives me to become a better/faster racer

I feel like I’ve gained almost a second in this last month. I started watching more replays and paying more attention to people racing in front of me. I was usually starting in top 10 in A. Now I usually start in top 3. Got promoted to S, and I finish almost every race in the podium. Racing better drivers is difficult. Makes me anxious and worried that I might not be good enough. But that’s the feeling it takes for me to put some effort and better myself. Winning means nothing, or at least not so much - lol. From time to time, it happens to almost all of us. But the thrill I get when racing Z, Q, Windfire, NZ, RacingKing, Doodle, IOF, Orma (and the likes) ... that’s THE thing that keeps me going! I don’t always race them, but when I’m put side by side with them, being cheesy, is like being amongst the Olympians! I know I don’t belong there, but I’m gonna prove them that I have guts and heart.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Well, thats racing. there's always a guy faster than you

And personally, I (DR B) really enjoy to get matched with A and S drivers. It just adds more of a challenge and it drives me to become a better/faster racer

Exactly, and actually there are a lot of drivers faster than me, but that’s ok. I like it, otherwise there‘d be no challenge and it would be pretty boring.

 

[VanessaMagick]

Being matched up with better drivers means you'll gain more for a good placement, and lose less for a bad placement. The reverse is true when you're matched against worse drivers.

 

[bmxmitch]

Exactly, and actually there are a lot of drivers faster than me, but that’s ok. I like it, otherwise there‘d be no challenge and it would be pretty boring.

And thats why I always pick the "outsider" car. Beating all those M4 or 911 with my SLS, McLaren or Huracan even feels better! It just doesnt happen too often

 

[HellzFire]

The bad matchmaking is also a problem caused by the bad sales number by GT standards, theres simply not much people playing right now.

The FIA races have better matchmaking because there's only 5 slots to race rather than 24 hours on the dailies.

I think the system is not bad, can be improved of course, but it's not a disaster.

One thing that PD needs to resolve is lost of DR/SR on disconnections. The game has to identify when it is your fault or the game's fault. And also, i think they should have some kind of tolerance for disconnections. For example, im getting dcd/blue screened like once/twice per week in average. Why not implement a system that don't drop your ratings if you only had 1 dc in like 2 days? That way would prevent random dcs to affect your ratings but it would still prevent exploiting. The system could be more hard if a guy kept using his one dc tolerance too often and punish him as well.

A higher DR helps a lot on FIA races. The highest DR on the room generally is the first person to enter the track on qualify, which helps giving you a clear track.

 

[Vader86]

I'm in general agreement. I'm using a DS4, and have always used the controller for GT or any other racing game. Theres no way I can be consistent like the guys who have used a wheel for years, and I'm certainly not faster. Usually I'm between 5-10 seconds slower per lap than the aliens. If I race like I normally would, clean, then I get up to SR A pretty fast and could get S if I want, but I have zero shot at winning a race. I'm at the point now that I feel like if I want to win, I basically have to buy a rig and a G29.

Winning should be special yes, but I have no fun if I never win. You match me based on SR, well I'll be down in midpack, might move up one or two spots. That makes me want to set the game down. Why race if I have no hope of winning any? I'm at DR B/C and am supposed to beat 4 guys who all lap it 5 seconds faster?

I then tanked my ratings by a few rage quits and saw the lower echelons were basically bumper car races. So if youre not at the front, youre probably going to get taken out if you try to race clean.

I'm just at the point where i want to set it down.

 

[Iceman]

I'm in general agreement. I'm using a DS4, and have always used the controller for GT or any other racing game. Theres no way I can be consistent like the guys who have used a wheel for years, and I'm certainly not faster. Usually I'm between 5-10 seconds slower per lap than the aliens. If I race like I normally would, clean, then I get up to SR A pretty fast and could get S if I want, but I have zero shot at winning a race.

How can you expect to reach DR A, much less DR S being 5-10 seconds off pace? That's totally unreasonable.

I'm at the point now that I feel like if I want to win, I basically have to buy a rig and a G29.

There are plenty of guys racing at an extremely high level using a controller. I don't think it will let you reach the very top of the mountain (especially with high powered cars), but it is certainly capable enough to be highly competitive within the SR S ranks.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Usually I'm between 5-10 seconds slower per lap than the aliens. If I race like I normally would, clean, then I get up to SR A pretty fast and could get S if I want, but I have zero shot at winning a race.

First off if you are 5-10 seconds a lap slower than the aliens then getting to DR A will be difficult but regardless of what of what you think getting to level DR S at that pace is just a pipe dream and not realistic at all..

Why race if I have no hope of winning any? I'm at DR B/C and am supposed to beat 4 guys who all lap it 5 seconds faster?

If you are currently at the low B/ high C DR ranking and cannot win races then your claims of easily reaching A ranking and S ranking if "I want" are pretty much being a legend in your own mind and not in the real world.

Yes it is pretty easy if you have only played GT offline and easily beat everything at the hardest level and gold all the challenges to think you are really good and one of the best at the game.

But then you enter the on line aspect of racing other people and it does not take very long to understand you skills within the game were no where to the level you thought they were against real competition.

Don't worry, you are not the only one that has experienced this wake up and realization. Now it is time to practice to actually get your real world skills up to the level they are in your mind and perhaps one day you find yourself in the S rank who knows.

 

[Vader86]

How can you expect to reach DR A, much less DR S being 5-10 seconds off pace? That's totally unreasonable.

There are plenty of guys racing at an extremely high level using a controller. I don't think it will let you reach the very top of the mountain (especially with high powered cars), but it is certainly capable enough to be highly competitive within the SR S ranks.

I said SR A, S, not DR A, S.

First off if you are 5-10 seconds a lap slower than the aliens then getting to DR A will be difficult but regardless of what of what you think getting to level DR S at that pace is just a pipe dream and not realistic at all..

If you are currently at the low B/ high C DR ranking and cannot win races then your claims of easily reaching A ranking and S ranking if "I want" are pretty much being a legend in your own mind and not in the real world.

Yes it is pretty easy if you have only played GT offline and easily beat everything at the hardest level and gold all the challenges to think you are really good and one of the best at the game.

But then you enter the on line aspect of racing other people and it does not take very long to understand you skills within the game were no where to the level you thought they were against real competition.

Don't worry, you are not the only one that has experienced this wake up and realization. Now it is time to practice to actually get your real world skills up to the level they are in your mind and perhaps one day you find yourself in the S rank who knows.

So two people here cannot read then, SR A, not DR A.

 

[Veinz]

There's simply not enough evenly matched players looking for a race at that given time, that's why you see lobbies with varying DR ratings, it is what it is.

I know there a lots of people who only care about the trophies, but a player tanking his ratings to cheese their way to easy wins is a bit pathetic and sort of defeats the purpose of having a rating system like this.

 

[Sean Renon]

I'll chime in, as a high DR. A driver (idk how I got here though).
The last time I got a strong field (other than FIA races) was the night time Bathurst race where top 4 were DR. S and everyone else was DR.A - I was fine being the 11th or so qualifier as my best time was 1.5+ seconds faster than my qual time (only 1 lap to qualify) and the racing was great.

Personally, I'd rather qualify mid grid and race mid pack - when I get grouped with DR. D guys that's when I'm a little annoyed.

However, the daily races have been fine for the most part - and I'm OK being matched with slower people and faster people so long as I have somebody to race against. It's the odd time where NOBODY is even within a second of my qualifying time that the racing sucks, I'm gone after the first corner and it's basically a 10 lap time trial.

 

[TenderLoins]

I think DR and Q time should be the highest priority in matchmaking. Do we really need 16-20 racers in the field every race? I don’t think so. Matchmaking should be tighter at the expense of a full grid. I think most would rather have a field of 8-10 closely matched drivers than a grid of 16-20 with Q times separated by 10+ seconds.

Most of the guys who are DR/S focus on the FIA events anyway. They get nothing out of racing a field of much slower people who they see only if they are lapping them. In the dailies they are usually racing in a group of 2-5 anyway.

If DR groups have to be mixed they should never overlap more than one level.

S-A, A-B, B-C.....

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I said SR A, S, not DR A, S.



So two people here cannot read then, SR A, not DR A.

I do apologize as I did read it wrong.

In retrospect I think what put me on the DR path instead of the SR path was talking about having zero shot at winning a race and the SR ranking has nothing to do with the speed of the other drivers you are matched with only with their "frequency" of incidents as a percentage of their racing laps.

The matching with the higher ranked drivers is dependent on the number of racers of what rankings is available at the time of matchmaking. The only way that would matter if there were not enough DR rankings in the higher SR rankings available for the lobby. You will find fewer DR S and A ranked drivers in the lower SR rankings than in the higher rankings which could influence the lobby overall.

Again I apologize for my mistake in misreading your original post.

 

[NommyNom]

I'm confused, you want to quit so your Dr. goes down so you can win, in order to increase your Dr.? your win count might increase but your Dr. will probably not get past where you were originally, but whatever is important to you. What excites you about racing? Is winning uncontested considered fun for you? or does a 4 person battle for 7th sound like more fun? I personally prefer the latter, and I like getting placed mid pack. close enough to catch leader mistakes, but still a good amount of cars chasing you to keep up your pace. I feel like being placed in strong rooms helps improve my skill level. I may have single digit wins out of hundreds of sport races but you don't need to win to have fun.

 

[zocker_16]

Check out this guys stats, http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=2699458 308 wins from 322 races yet his DR is only 18,357, 7k less than mine and my meagre 16 wins. Look at the daily records as well, down to one numerous times. Something fishy going on for sure.

I know this guy. He´s on a german trophies forum and just wanted to get the platinum trophy.

His tactic was like this: Whenever he didn't qualified 1st he quitted the race.
If somebody crashed him during the race he took revenge and ragequitted afterwards.
That´s why his DR remains <5000 points most of the time.

It´s definitely not how this game should be played and shows the weakness of the current system.
PD missed to encourage players to get a high DR level. Yes you get more points in the FIA-Races but theres no other impact.
A solution would have been to increase the rewards for credits and XP on higher DR-Races.
For example multiply a fixed number with the points this daily race would have given if it was a FIA-Race.
Like winning a daily Race in class D gives you 100 Cr * 10 points and 10 XP * 10 points.
A race between A and S ranked drivers pays out: 100 Cr * 1000 points and 10 XP * 1000 points.
Better players with higher DR would progress much faster. ( Of course if there wasn't´ the pitlane glitch which made the level trophy obsolete).
With the current system it´s easier and faster to achieve the online trophys if you do it like the guy above.

 

[Foofer37]

I said SR A, S, not DR A, S.



So two people here cannot read then, SR A, not DR A.

I'm with you buddy. Everyone needs to look back at when this game was announced. I remember a lot of people were like, Gran Turismo Sport? Not GT7? What the? Online only? That's basically how the game was marketed. So a lot of us were totally turned off and not interested anymore. All I can say is, I'm on offline, race against the AI kind of person. I just want to have fun. And I am soooo glad there is an offline mode to this game. I really enjoy that part of it and pretty much avoid online racing. No matter what SIM it is. Because these problems are there no matter what game it is.

 

[Stotty]

I think DR and Q time should be the highest priority in matchmaking. Do we really need 16-20 racers in the field every race? I don’t think so. Matchmaking should be tighter at the expense of a full grid. I think most would rather have a field of 8-10 closely matched drivers than a grid of 16-20 with Q times separated by 10+ seconds.

Most of the guys who are DR/S focus on the FIA events anyway. They get nothing out of racing a field of much slower people who they see only if they are lapping them. In the dailies they are usually racing in a group of 2-5 anyway.

If DR groups have to be mixed they should never overlap more than one level.

S-A, A-B, B-C.....

Qualifying time cannot be used for matching as half the people who race don’t put the proper effort in - they thInk 5 laps are plenty.

If qualifying times were used, I’d just sandbag - set a rubbish time then annihilate the slower drivers I got matched against.

I’m DRS, and I’ve never run an FIA event. I only race dailies. I consistently get matched with fast, clean drivers, and have had many awesome races.

 

[Nando deBem]

A joke:

They should create a trophy for staying in DR S for 100 days.

 

[TenderLoins]

Qualifying time cannot be used for matching as half the people who race don’t put the proper effort in - they thInk 5 laps are plenty.

I don’t see how the number of laps put in matters in this context.

If qualifying times were used, I’d just sandbag - set a rubbish time then annihilate the slower drivers I got matched against.

But DR would be the first criteria and if the DR was only allowed to overlap one level, with your sandbagged Q time those slower drivers you’re going to annihilate would all be A or S drivers. I also find it hard to believe you personally would actually tank your times and DR to race scrubs.

I’m DRS, and I’ve never run an FIA event. I only race dailies. I consistently get matched with fast, clean drivers, and have had many awesome races.

I said most S drivers. Even if I’m overstating, this would make matchmaking more user friendly for the majority instead of the minority. It would also be more difficult to game. But no matter what, people will try to game whatever system is in place.

Edit: I am fine with the current system because I just like racing and don’t feel the need to win constantly. But, As a high B/S driver, I do get matched in races where I have little to no chance of winning or even getting podium 95% of time.