Driver rating formula hell

[kjeldsen]

Really not a fan of this system as it actually punishes slower drivers who get grouped with faster drivers.
I got into an FIA race that had 16 DR.S guys and only 4 of us DR.A's (this was before my DR got reset to B...).
I was about 47000 DR points and was door # 18 (for what that matters).
I finished 16th, 1 spot up from where I qualified(and 2 spots up from my "expected" finish if you believe door #'s) - and the game docked me 600 DR for essentially finishing right where the matchmaking system expected me to.

Consider this, in that field if a few had messed up and you had gotten higher up you could have scored many points in that race.

 

[Outspacer]

Is it fair that Shottah lost points for winning, no it’s not should probably have just stayed at the same DR

As I read it, he didn't lose points for winning, just for not winning the other two races. In fact, if the SOF (strength of field = average DR of the other players) was about the same in each race he probably gained 100+ points for each win, since each place down costs 160 points:

50 = N + N + N + N -160 + N - 480
50 = 5 * N - 640
690 = 5 * N
690 / 5 = N
690 / 5 = 138, roughly, maybe

Anyway The system certainly has a limit built in which tries to make a win always score at least 1 point from each other player. It's slightly bugged, so sometimes it scores 0 instead (when the difference in DR is close to 40000), but that's still not losing points for winning.

 

[vvise]

Really not a fan of this system as it actually punishes slower drivers who get grouped with faster drivers.
I got into an FIA race that had 16 DR.S guys and only 4 of us DR.A's (this was before my DR got reset to B...).
I was about 47000 DR points and was door # 18 (for what that matters).
I finished 16th, 1 spot up from where I qualified(and 2 spots up from my "expected" finish if you believe door #'s) - and the game docked me 600 DR for essentially finishing right where the matchmaking system expected me to.

I get that this sucks, but I think it's good for the game in the grand scheme of things.

If you really feel like you had no chance of competing in that lobby, then losing points will actually put you into a closer race next time. Right?

Improving your DR isn't really the point of the game, and shouldn't really happen. Unless you're actually improving your driving skill.

But I totally get that this feels bad. I'm in about the same boat.

 

[danbojte]

Improving your DR isn't really the point of the game, and shouldn't really happen. Unless you're actually improving your driving skill.

Very well said! 👍

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Thanks for the reply and useful info guys! There are definitely some bugs to get fixed.

I still believe number of spots increased in a race should increase driver rating. I mean how can moving up 8 spots from 18-10th not add DR because in top half?? Score all racing with championship points formula for every position so even racing gives a point towards DR moving up. Add bonus for total number of spots moved up and make low multiple finishes start giving no points for or against so you maintain what DR you've earned. I mean it's like a freaking balancing act on a scale who's weight changes depending on how many people want to come touch it. You get wrecked AND avoid wrecking others in several races,
finishing bottom half ... and get an S SR but go down in DR!? It shouldn't move. Neutral. Especially if wrecked.

Also it's hard to say level of competition beaten should be rated when you're in a race with no one above your level. Like shottah072 noted in his... what 3 wins and lost points!? Coooome on GT.

Bottom line is GT sport is making it hard to enjoy online racing. You shouldn't ever race multiple races and work your ass off and drop a DR level. Neutral DR movement for bad finishes at worst should be new formula. You were good enough to get there to begin with, bad races don't make you a "lower level" driver.

There's a level of eccentricity with GT developers that shows it's face from time to time. Like their trying more to make a statement than a game consumers like. Like that you get a car but NOT a gold track logo for finishing all golds on all tracks in circuit experience. Why give silver and bronze but not just also gold!?

If that were the case no one would qualify

 

[phonix feuer]

Thanks for the reply and useful info guys! There are definitely some bugs to get fixed.
I still believe number of spots increased in a race should increase driver rating. Also it's hard to say level of competition beaten should be rated when you're in a race with no one above your level. Like shottah072 noted in his... what 3 wins and lost points!? Coooome on GT.

DR system can’t be based on positions gained, its right that it’s based on the strength of the other drivers you beat.

Everyone would just start at the back if that was the case, I agree sometimes the DR loss is very excessive for a bad result. But if your losing DR or only gaining a little bit you’ve probably reached the level you should be at.

Is it fair that Shottah lost points for winning, no it’s not should probably have just stayed at the same DR, but that’s the fault of the matchmaking system that you shouldn’t be put with those drivers in the first place. But on the same sentiment if you gain DR in a race like this then people would constantly game the system!

Sorry wrong on multiple counts.
If im faster I'll move forward regardless of placing. It doesn't matter where I start. I earn a finish as long as I'm not wrecking people. If I move up 12 spots (legit) to finish 4th there should be a bonus. This is a game. Even in real racing bonuses are given. OR it doesnt matter and we award points for pole positions and being top 6 before the race. For which I usually am.
Bottom line... It also should be graded points per position. ALL positions get some points in top half but no one ever LOSES points for any race. Pro racing doesn't take champ points away for poor finishes. You just get none or less. So it doesn't make wins or good finishes irrelevant. No one would race or watch that kind of programmer couch potatoe logic racing.
SR should also: be as easy to gain as loose, and never go down when someone cuts you off and hits YOU. I'm sick of seeing a blue S go to a red A because someone wrecks me and I don't trash my race by accepting the 4 second penalty for hitting a wall. Come on one bad wreck and some cars bump you and you touch a wall and your a lower level driver. So if michael phelps loosing a meet he's NOT a great swimmer!? When in life to you earn a title that's taken away because you have bad days!? It's ridiculous!
Real drivers also know exactly what to do to earn points. We still don't know how many are awarded for what ... officially. Which is BS.
Massive change needs to be made but they won't. They're stubborn and biased. I mean a non track proven Supra is now the fastest on an oval!? And mustangs can dominate a high speed course!? Mustangs don't win anything anywhere in racing. I mean driving simulator or the creators personal racing world we are all subject to exist and be rules within....

Final thoughts...
If im faster I'll move forward regardless of placing. It doesn't matter where I start. I earn a finish as long as I'm not wrecking people. If I move up 12 spots (legit) to finish 4th there should be a bonus. This is a game. Even in real racing bonuses are given. OR it doesnt matter and we award points for pole positions and being top 6 before the race. For which I usually am.
Bottom line... It also should be graded points per position. ALL positions get some points in top half but no one ever LOSES points for any race. Pro racing doesn't take champ points away for poor finishes. You just get none or less. So it doesn't make wins or good finishes irrelevant. No one would race or watch that kind of programmer couch potatoe logic racing.
SR should also: be as easy to gain as loose, and never go down when someone cuts you off and hits YOU. I'm sick of seeing a blue S go to a red A because someone wrecks me and I don't trash my race by accepting the 4 second penalty for hitting a wall. Come on one bad wreck and some cars bump you and you touch a wall and youre a lower level driver. So if michael phelps looses a meet he's NOT a great swimmer!? When in life to you earn a title that's taken away because you have bad days!? It's ridiculous!
Real drivers also know exactly what to do to earn points. We still don't know how many are awarded for what ... officially. Which is BS.
Massive change needs to be made but they won't. They're stubborn and biased. I mean a non track proven Supra is now the fastest on an oval!? And mustangs can dominate a high speed course!? Mustangs don't win anything anywhere in racing. I mean driving simulator or the creators personal racing world we are all subject to exist and be rules within....

If that were the case no one would qualify

What kind of logic is that? What would it matter? Faster goes forward dude. Doesn't mater where you quality. Just helps faster stay ahead of slower traffic. It's 10x harder to come from the back 16th to 4th than stay in front and run clean lines like your qualifying again. Battle 12 guys vs 1 or 2 up front?? No one wants to do that it's why you do qualify.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Final thoughts...
If im faster I'll move forward regardless of placing. It doesn't matter where I start. I earn a finish as long as I'm not wrecking people. If I move up 12 spots (legit) to finish 4th there should be a bonus. This is a game. Even in real racing bonuses are given. OR it doesnt matter and we award points for pole positions and being top 6 before the race. For which I usually am.
Bottom line... It also should be graded points per position. ALL positions get some points in top half but no one ever LOSES points for any race. Pro racing doesn't take champ points away for poor finishes. You just get none or less. So it doesn't make wins or good finishes irrelevant. No one would race or watch that kind of programmer couch potatoe logic racing.
SR should also: be as easy to gain as loose, and never go down when someone cuts you off and hits YOU. I'm sick of seeing a blue S go to a red A because someone wrecks me and I don't trash my race by accepting the 4 second penalty for hitting a wall. Come on one bad wreck and some cars bump you and you touch a wall and youre a lower level driver. So if michael phelps looses a meet he's NOT a great swimmer!? When in life to you earn a title that's taken away because you have bad days!? It's ridiculous!
Real drivers also know exactly what to do to earn points. We still don't know how many are awarded for what ... officially. Which is BS.
Massive change needs to be made but they won't. They're stubborn and biased. I mean a non track proven Supra is now the fastest on an oval!? And mustangs can dominate a high speed course!? Mustangs don't win anything anywhere in racing. I mean driving simulator or the creators personal racing world we are all subject to exist and be rules within....

Yeah... Not to brag, but I qualify within the top 3 90% of the time in daily races, so what merits would adding points per position would give me? If anything, I'm faster than everyone below me, so why would I get equal points when I finish 1st to say someone who started 12th and finish 4th? They're not faster than me, so what gives? If you're faster, then you should've qualified higher in the first place. End of story.

SR is too easy to gain as it is right now, really. It's easy to lose, but it's also easy to gain. One daily race C eitherat the back or at the front yields over 10 SR points in one race. If you're not gaining SR that quickly, it's your problem given the copious amounts the game gives for SR.

It's tiring to see this argument. All I see is someone whining because they can't qualify high enough in the first place.

What kind of logic is that? What would it matter? Faster goes forward dude. Doesn't mater where you quality. Just helps faster stay ahead of slower traffic. It's 10x harder to come from the back 16th to 4th than stay in front and run clean lines like your qualifying again. Battle 12 guys vs 1 or 2 up front?? No one wants to do that it's why you do qualify.

The logic is if I get more DR going up the field than qualifying and staying at first, of course I'll choose the option that gives me more DR. It doesn't matter if it's 10x harder. If I'm fast enough I can pull it off.

 

[danbojte]

Hot lapping (qualifying) and racing are two different "stories". If only being faster would count, then the races shouldn't exist - it would be enough to categorize the drivers as they are doing the fastest laps and that would be the "end of story". I love to race!

 

[Alpha Cipher]

We all do, but if I won't accept it if someone else gains the same or more DR than me even if I finish in a higher position just because they gained more positions than I did. It's unfair to those who qualify at the top

 

[fastone371]

Where do you find a alpha/numerical relationship chart for your SR??

 

[GTWelsh]

Really not a fan of this system as it actually punishes slower drivers who get grouped with faster drivers.

That's actually the whole point of it.

 

[suprajef]

That's actually the whole point of it.

It punishes everyone who does or doesn't race clean

 

[GTWelsh]

It punishes everyone who does or doesn't race clean

My comment was about DR being lowered when slower drivers get put in with faster drivers. Nothing to do with SR.

 

[chuyler1]

The formula is like this:
1) for someone finished before you, baseline is lost 80 DR points +/- the difference of DR/500.
2) for someone finished after you, baseline is gain 80 DR points +/- the difference of DR/500.
3) Minimal is 1 DR point if the result of 1) or 2) is less than 1.
4) repeat the above to get the sum of comparing you with all other players in that race.
5) if the result from 4) make you rank up the DR ranking, then +1500 on top. If de-rank, then -1500 on top.

For example, if you are S player with 60000 DR and play with a C player with 5000 DR.
If you finished before him, you gain 1 DR from him (80-(60000-5000)/500) <1).
If you finished after him, you lost 190 DR to him (80+(60000-5000)/500) = 190).

First off, is this still the formula for calculating DR?

Second, I'm trying to figure out how rating changes on those races where you get dropped into a lobby full of much higher rated drivers. In theory this should happen just as often as getting placed in a lobby full of lower rated drivers (which we have ascertained doesn't gain you many points for winning). Let's say you are the worst driver in the lobby and you come in last place...because you simply had no chance. In my case, this might be me at 35000 A-rated against drivers rated 40000 and above A+ and S-rated (this happened last night). The math says you lose 80+(35000-40000)/500 = 70 points x 19 drivers = 1,330 points lost for a race I had no chance of winning! How is that fair? I didn't choose to race against those drivers. Once placed on the grid I'm stuck, right? Can I back out before the race starts and not lose points?

It seems like the formula only breaks even with a 40,000 delta between a worse driver and better driver. In terms of classes, a D rated driver doesn't need to place ahead of A or A+ rated drivers. Finishing the race in any position would be fine. However a C or B driver NEEDS to place ahead of those drivers to not lose points to them. So if you are the only B driver in the lobby full of As, you better place top 10 just to maintain your rating...even though that is going to be difficult.

What this means is that when you get close to your true ability, you'll start jumping up and down between ratings depending on how the game places you in a lobby. Your rating no longer reflects your standing among peers, it is a random number with probably a 5-10k delta depending on how the game places you for each race. Some races you'll get dumped with bad drivers, other races you'll get dumped with aliens, but it won't really stabilize so you can race your peers every race.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

First off, is this still the formula for calculating DR?

Second, I'm trying to figure out how rating changes on those races where you get dropped into a lobby full of much higher rated drivers. In theory this should happen just as often as getting placed in a lobby full of lower rated drivers (which we have ascertained doesn't gain you many points for winning). Let's say you are the worst driver in the lobby and you come in last place...because you simply had no chance. In my case, this might be me at 35000 A-rated against drivers rated 40000 and above A+ and S-rated (this happened last night). The math says you lose 80+(35000-40000)/500 = 70 points x 19 drivers = 1,330 points lost for a race I had no chance of winning! How is that fair? I didn't choose to race against those drivers. Once placed on the grid I'm stuck, right? Can I back out before the race starts and not lose points?

It seems like the formula only breaks even with a 40,000 delta between a worse driver and better driver. In terms of classes, a D rated driver doesn't need to place ahead of A or A+ rated drivers. Finishing the race in any position would be fine. However a C or B driver NEEDS to place ahead of those drivers to not lose points to them. So if you are the only B driver in the lobby full of As, you better place top 10 just to maintain your rating...even though that is going to be difficult.

What this means is that when you get close to your true ability, you'll start jumping up and down between ratings depending on how the game places you in a lobby. Your rating no longer reflects your standing among peers, it is a random number with probably a 5-10k delta depending on how the game places you for each race. Some races you'll get dumped with bad drivers, other races you'll get dumped with aliens, but it won't really stabilize so you can race your peers every race.

What are you talking about, my DR is rock steady after 11K races
https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1495257

DR only really works for the top split, the fastest 1%. Those that always get in the top room (as long as they stay above 90 SR).
All the other rooms are just a matter of chance whether you're the top dog or have no chance.

Btw, you can cancel your entry during the "loading track" / "waiting for other players" screen by suspending GT Sport. (Or closing it, or logging out of psn). If you quit after you get in the lobby you will be counted as finishing last. Yet if you never make it into the lobby your ratings stay intact.