Driving cars at full throttle

[Zenith]

There is no hard evidence in favor of the Italian Tuneup. Just some people on teh internetz talking about how it totally worked bro.

I see no way that it could do good on a modern fuel injected engine.

 

[Adamgp]

It done good in my ol' '97 Grand Prix.

But that had a GM OHV engine that would run on almost anything put in the tank.

 

[Slash]

Low compression engines will run on anything haha.

I can't recall what a GTP has though. Want to say almost 10:1.

 

[TouringBubble]

Sea foam will work just fine. The term in Harry's link is better suited for vehicles that are designed specifically to be ran at high RPMs (hence the name ), so that the car is still actually being used as intended.

I think RX-7 rotary engines follow the same mindset of needing to be driven hard every so often, but @Keef may be able to confirm that.

Rotary engines do like to be taken to redline on every drive to extend the engine life. Rotaries are known for carbon buildup on the apex seals that can cause compression loss over time. Revving helps prevent it. This is well documented as automatic equipped RX7s and RX8s have been known to fail with very low mileage due to the transmission shifting much earlier than most do with a manual trans. I personally know an RX8 that went through 2 engines in under 80k miles due to not driving hard enough.

And that's why rotaries are awesome.

I don't drive hard often, which most people don't believe when you daily an Evo. I only really drive hard (WOT pulls, to redline) when in a sanctioned racing event. I will occasionally rev the car above 5k ... maybe once per week. And that's just because I'm bored and want it to shoot flames for my amusement. I only got WOT when not racing about once a month, just to remind myself why I don't do it on the street, honestly.

Occasional full throttle and high revs is perfectly fine for about any car. The factory limits are generally set far below the tested points where terminal failure and excessive wear would occur. Extended high revs or high load (including towing) on the engine will cause more wear than less strenuous driving. It's just physics.

I noticed the mention of the "Italian tune-up" earlier. It is a real thing, but it only really works for engines built for super specific tolerances. On racing engines and high end supercars, etc, carbon buildup has a greater effect on performance than a passenger car. The high revs can help clean up the carbon, just like in the rotary mentioned earlier.

I use SeaFoam in the intake of the Evo and the GTI about once a year to help keep the top end clean, as they aren't race cars ... technically. However, in the Beetle, I drive it at full throttle pretty much any time it comes out, so I haven't worried about it. It's only got 250 miles on it currently though.

 

[JMoney]

Maximum throttle will increase wear on the parts of the engine that are designed to take the load. Bearings and piston rings will wear out more quickly necessitating an engine rebuild. Not too quickly though. In the grand scope of things, it won't make a huge difference to floor the car to merge onto the highway or have a bit of fun. Other parts are more likely to wear out and render the car unworthy of fixing before the engine does.

On the other hand, slamming the throttle, sidestepping the clutch, and hard launches are a great way to break really expensive parts.

Guilty... but my truck has lasted a year (around 12,000 miles w/ 190,000 total), and the only thing that's broken is the serpentine belt, costing $160 to fix. Might slow down a bit anyway.

 

[Slash]

It cost you $160 for a serpentine belt? You got ripped off hard! Should have only cost you $20 and 15 minutes of your time.

 

[kikie]

Not the same thing. You can go full throttle without going near the redline, and you can redline the engine without ever going full throttle.

Full throttle = pedal to the floor, throttle valve is wide open

Ofcourse you can floor the pedal to the floor in a higher gear or much higher gear without red lining the engine but that was probably not the question of the OP. It is obvious that you don't floor the pedal all the way in a very low rpm. Your car doesn't accelerate properly because of the lack of power (torque and hp, I'm talking about my gasoline car and not a turbo diesel). Flooring the pedal in a much too high gear won't rev up your engine much. The OP also asks about engine damage. You don't damage your engine revving up your engine full throttle and shift gear before the rpm reaches the red line. So, I guess he was talking about revving up the engine to the red line, otherwise why asking about engine damage.
I also said in traffic. If you floor the pedal without going very high in rpm, you sure are doing very dangerlous things (e.g. overtaking cars).

Read:

How many of you guys drive your cars at full throttle on a daily basis? How often? I'm wondering how much damage does that do? After the car is warmed up I mean. People always tell me that revving it up/full throttle will quickly wear out/break a car, but just how much extra wear does spirited driving do?

I would assume sports cars are "more made" for hard driving, so there would be a lesser negative effects than "normal" cars when driven hard. Is there any truth behind this? For example Camry/Ford Focus vs Mustang/BRZ. I would think that the non sports cars would overheat faster, so can't be driven hard as long. Car experts please explain. I get that there is less incentive to stand on the gas pedal with regular 100-150hp cars, but it still adds a kick of enjoyment when driving. Especially when merging onto the highway or wheelspin launches in the rain/snow

 

[Adamgp]

Low compression engines will run on anything haha.

I can't recall what a GTP has though. Want to say almost 10:1.

Supercharged L67's had 8.5:1, N/A L36's had 9.5:1.

 

[Keef]

Sea foam will work just fine. The term in Harry's link is better suited for vehicles that are designed specifically to be ran at high RPMs (hence the name ), so that the car is still actually being used as intended.

I think RX-7 rotary engines follow the same mindset of needing to be driven hard every so often, but @Keef may be able to confirm that.

Rotaries in general tend burn dirty and build up carbon internally, like some old carbureted engines did. Running the engine at higher rpm seems to make it run stronger and you can actually feel the difference.

That said, rotaries don't have to deal with the sort of forces a piston engine does so they're naturally happier at high rpm.

 

[Slash]

Supercharged L67's had 8.5:1, N/A L36's had 9.5:1.

I knew one of them had closer to 10:1. My friend has the supercharged one, he says running on premium feels stronger. Interesting with that low compression ratio. I've only been under the hood of his car a couple times.

 

[Adamgp]

I knew one of them had closer to 10:1. My friend has the supercharged one, he says running on premium feels stronger. Interesting with that low compression ratio. I've only been under the hood of his car a couple times.

L67's had lower compression because of the supercharger, and require premium to prevent knocking and premature detonation. Your friend should be running premium all the time.

 

[Slash]

He does now, but for a while he was running on 87 because it was cheaper. Seemed to run fine on 87. Has 200k miles on it.

 

[Adamgp]

It'll run just fine on 87 if not pushed hard. I ran mine on 87 a couple times but drove like a grandma when I did. Pushing it too hard with regular gas tends to make these engines go kablooey.

 

[Slash]

Usually he tends to be pretty easy on it but during the summer once a week he drag races it pretty heavily. He's since switched to premium, but when he bought the car, he didn't know it was supposed to run in it.

 

[Adamgp]

That's odd, my Grand Prix said "premium fuel only" on the gas cap and on the gas gauge.

 

[Slash]

His is an '01, but I don't think they would have changed it, but from what I'm finding, his cap doesn't say that. He said he was going through the manual for the hell of it one day and found it.

 

[Celicaas]

Just a question about Italian tuneup If i didnt rev up my car's engine Every now and then it will destroy it ? That,s odd because what i know revving up the engine a lot will ruin your engine

Please explain

 

[ildd]

Just a question about Italian tuneup If i didnt rev up my car's engine Every now and then it will destroy it ? That,s odd because what i know revving up the engine a lot will ruin your engine

Please explain

It basically blows out carbon buildup, improving air flow, Thus improving performance and efficiency

I think it's reccomended to do this every 6 months?

 

[phillgt2002]

It basically blows out carbon buildup, improving air flow, Thus improving performance and efficiency

I think it's reccomended to do this every 6 months?

I honestly thing it wouldn't make much of a difference as long as you drive the car regular. Note: this is the first time I've heard of this.

 

[oohhh yeah]

Ofcourse you can floor the pedal to the floor in a higher gear or much higher gear without red lining the engine but that was probably not the question of the OP. It is obvious that you don't floor the pedal all the way in a very low rpm. Your car doesn't accelerate properly because of the lack of power (torque and hp, I'm talking about my gasoline car and not a turbo diesel). Flooring the pedal in a much too high gear won't rev up your engine much. The OP also asks about engine damage. You don't damage your engine revving up your engine full throttle and shift gear before the rpm reaches the red line. So, I guess he was talking about revving up the engine to the red line, otherwise why asking about engine damage.
I also said in traffic. If you floor the pedal without going very high in rpm, you sure are doing very dangerlous things (e.g. overtaking cars).

Read:

Now that you mention it, isn't stepping on it in too high a gear very bad for the engine? I remember reading something about it putting a ton of stress on the motor. For example, city driving going up a hill. Too high a gear would mean you have to mash it to maintain speed. The alternative would be in a lower gear but higher rpm. Even though it's a higher rpm, it's doing the same job a lot easier than a too high gear with the gas pedal mashed. Driving with the gear too high will cause much more damage than at higher revs lower gear. Can anyone else elaborate?

 

[Bopop4]

Now that you mention it, isn't stepping on it in too high a gear very bad for the engine? I remember reading something about it putting a ton of stress on the motor. For example, city driving going up a hill. Too high a gear would mean you have to mash it to maintain speed. The alternative would be in a lower gear but higher rpm. Even though it's a higher rpm, it's doing the same job a lot easier than a too high gear with the gas pedal mashed. Driving with the gear too high will cause much more damage than at higher revs lower gear. Can anyone else elaborate?

You don't want to lug the engine, you'll feel it lugging when the engine starts shaking.

Flooring it at 2000rpm in 5th isn't really going to be bad for the motor, you just won't really go anywhere.

 

[TouringBubble]

It'll run just fine on 87 if not pushed hard. I ran mine on 87 a couple times but drove like a grandma when I did. Pushing it too hard with regular gas tends to make these engines go kablooey.

It's nice to see that someone else understands how fuel octane works!

 

[Slash]

It's nice to see that someone else understands how fuel octane works!

Regular isn't a low enough octane to cause a really serious issue like knocking or just plain old not running. Hence why it even runs.

 

[Lotus Exige S]

Maximum throttle will increase wear on the parts of the engine that are designed to take the load. Bearings and piston rings will wear out more quickly necessitating an engine rebuild. Not too quickly though. In the grand scope of things, it won't make a huge difference to floor the car to merge onto the highway or have a bit of fun. Other parts are more likely to wear out and render the car unworthy of fixing before the engine does.

On the other hand, slamming the throttle, sidestepping the clutch, and hard launches are a great way to break really expensive parts.

Also with the increased rate of engine wear that could mean more carbon build up on everything more rapidly, motor could start to lose compression sooner too..

 

[Aquarelle]

Eh, the way I see it if you're not pinging off the rev limiter for extended periods of time and you're not trying to climb a hill at 1000 RPM in 5th at full throttle you'll be alright - the worst that can happen is that your engine may give in sooner than if you baby it at all times.

But I'm a mechanic so it's not a big deal for me to rip a blown motor out and import a half cut from Japan so perhaps my view is rather distorted - I'm sure for someone that needs to pay a shop for that kind of work it would be a very different story.

 

[Adamgp]

Regular isn't a low enough octane to cause a really serious issue like knocking or just plain old not running. Hence why it even runs.

It'll knock pretty good when run hard on regular. Even more so if the car is modded.

Somewhere I have carnage pics of what happens to an L67 that knocks to badly.

 

[Slash]

It'll knock pretty good when run hard on regular. Even more so if the car is modded.

Somewhere I have carnage pics of what happens to an L67 that knocks to badly.

I find it interesting you say that because I've never noticed any knocking when run on regular and I've been with him just about every time he's gotten on it pretty hard. He romps on it when drag racing, and usually makes several passes.

 

[Adamgp]

I find it interesting you say that because I've never noticed any knocking when run on regular and I've been with him just about every time he's gotten on it pretty hard. He romps on it when drag racing, and usually makes several passes.

It's not exactly something that can be felt or heard. Also, GM equipped the L67 with knock sensors that will automatically retard the timing when it senses knocking. To actually see if it is knocking, a scanning tool is needed.

If your friend is running a stock sized (3.8") pulley, he should be ok. If he's running a 3.4" or lower without much else done he's risking it. 9 years of owning a GTP and frequenting the Grand Prix forums I don't recall ever seeing a stock pullied car chunk a piston.

Of course, he may be lucky and have what the Grand Prix community calls a "factory freak". A car that either runs faster than it should, or takes to mods a bit better than others. Or both, like my '97.

 

[Slash]

Yeah the car is 100% stock under the hood. He won't play with it, he'll get another Mustang before he screws around with the GTP.

His car at it's best with 200k miles on it ran a 9.8 in the 1/8th on 87. That's around a mid 15 in the 1/4.

 

[Adamgp]

That's too bad, these cars make great sleepers.

Mid 15's in the 1/4 for a stock car is kind of slow. Stock ones usually run 14.5-15 flat.

It's likely he is seeing a bit of kr. Knock sensors are pulling timing and as a result he is losing power. He should be running 91-93 all the time.