DSJ: Vol 9 - '97 Toyota Supra RZ

[Ske]

Well.. before I added downforce, the settings didn't work very good for me to be honest.. the wing might be alpha/omega as I didnt get convincing results from suspension tuning (as often happens for me in gt4 :shrug: )

I know this sounds weird, but the transformation was so huge I'm wondering if the stock "wing" has some built in rear downforce (that's what if felt like)... Anyway, I tweaked the settings a bit more:

Front camber to 1.5
Front downforce to 5
LSD Init to 10
LSD Accel to 30 (still not 100% happy with this)
LSD Decel to 8
.. and I jumped from N1 to N2. Both work, depends on what kinda drift you want.. I use N1 when I wanna go all gung ho, and N2 when I need to take tighter lines with less angle.
Power: About 380 HP (more than enough, obviously)

It's close to perfection for me now, but I'd like to make it a bit easier to increase the angle while drifting at high revs, if possible...

 

[Boundary Layer]

I just gave a high LSD Accel value a try (set to 45).

I can't describe my feelings in a particularly eloquent and concise manner. I hope you can piece together my thoughts from the ramblings to follow.


Although I like how the higher setting pushes you down the track during a drift letting you hold a tighter line for the duration of the turn, I disliked how much distance it took off of my entries relative to my earlier settings. Took me a few laps to find a new entry point where I wouldn't rub the nose (or rip it right off) on the corner apex.

The car's attitude exitting the corner was a bit more knife edged.
For starters, it seemed slightly less willing to pull out of a drift unless I lifted off. I suppose somewhat similar to AWD in this respect, but not nearly to the same degree.
Snapback would spring upon me with less advanced warning. But, once I managed to predict it with this new LSD setting, pulling out and heading straight down the track came easily. With the lower setting of 25 it was easier for me to tell when I might expect the snapback to come. But even then, it wasn't uncommon for me to zig zag a little bit down the track after a drift if my steering correction was a little bit off or delayed.
So, the higher setting is just a bit more stable - I might call it less sensitive, but I don't know if that term is a good fit.

During the drift I noticed a greater dependency upon wheelspin to alter the car's rotation than previously. I wouldn't say this was troubling, simply an observation I made. If I keep an eye on the RPM and select gears wisely it's doesn't hinder me.

I think my ideal setting is still somewhere between 25 and 45. Probably a little more towards the lower end of the spectrum - say 30 to 35. More testing still to do.

 

[Delphic Reason]

I just gave a high LSD Accel value a try (set to 45).

I can't describe my feelings in a particularly eloquent and concise manner. I hope you can piece together my thoughts from the ramblings to follow.


Although I like how the higher setting pushes you down the track during a drift letting you hold a tighter line for the duration of the turn, I disliked how much distance it took off of my entries relative to my earlier settings. Took me a few laps to find a new entry point where I wouldn't rub the nose (or rip it right off) on the corner apex.

Ahhh... Interesting... You haven't figured out the right line and speed for such a setup... With the higher setting, you can enter a drift at a much higher speed, and much sooner... It just takes a different approach.. A more realistic approach, if you will... Yet, I have struck a compromise between the higher LSD settings, and those of Ske's (see my settings)... I think my revised settings should work for just about everyone, regardless of your style...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2110043&postcount=24

Snapback would spring upon me with less advanced warning. But, once I managed to predict it with this new LSD setting, pulling out and heading straight down the track came easily. With the lower setting of 25 it was easier for me to tell when I might expect the snapback to come. But even then, it wasn't uncommon for me to zig zag a little bit down the track after a drift if my steering correction was a little bit off or delayed.
So, the higher setting is just a bit more stable - I might call it less sensitive, but I don't know if that term is a good fit.

I've never really had a problem with the dreaded "snapback" everyone talks about, so that's probably why can use a higher setting without losing controllability... Both the low and the high settings work fine, but the higher setting will allow much longer, faster, higher angle drifts with much more smoke... Not to mention the fact, the hairpins are ten times easier with a higher LSD Accel setting... I changed the LSD Accel to 32 (although, 35 feels just about perfect), so it should be a bit easier for those that have trouble with "snapback" and other such related problems...

During the drift I noticed a greater dependency upon wheelspin to alter the car's rotation than previously. I wouldn't say this was troubling, simply an observation I made. If I keep an eye on the RPM and select gears wisely it's doesn't hinder me.

The setting allows you to control whether you have tons of smoke, or none at all... It just depends on how far down you want to put the accelerator... For exhibition drifting (especially contests) this one is a winner...

I think my ideal setting is still somewhere between 25 and 45. Probably a little more towards the lower end of the spectrum - say 30 to 35. More testing still to do.

Sounds about right to me... You should try 42... I had a lot of fun with that setting...

BTW, do you think we could use this thread to start tuning the SZ-R?... They're basically the same car, so it seems silly to start a new DSJ for it...

 

[Boundary Layer]

ya, I've done a little more running with the RZ to try to find a more comfortable LSD Accel value. I stopped on 34, and upped my rear spring rate to 9.8 from 9.2.

My Revised Settings


I do certainly agree with your comments about drifts having greater speed, and hairpins being easier at with the high settings.

I still think if I were to up the power a little more I'd feel more comfortable on tighter LSD accel settings. But at stock power levels this latest change of mine is where I intend to leave it. It's a good comprimise for me on all types of corners - and I'm just inches away from doing the triple-apex link on Seattle with it.

BTW, do you think we could use this thread to start tuning the SZ-R?... They're basically the same car, so it seems silly to start a new DSJ for it...

hehe, just dying to talk about that car eh?

If you want to prepare SZ-R settings here and compare or contrast that car's handling to the RZ, then be my guest. I'm not going to change the topic car for this DSJ, but I might follow suit and also try my hand at that machine.

For now I'm gonna fiddle around a bit more with the RZ making clips for a short vid I want to fling together for this DSJ.
(recently I've been absolutely dying to make a vid, for some reason)


edit: had a look at your revised settings now. heheh, our settings keep inching closer and closer towards one another.

 

[Delphic Reason]

and I'm just inches away from doing the triple-apex link on Seattle with it.

The one Bustwave did in the IDM:VM Volume 1?... I've been trying to make that myself, but getting on the right line through the 2nd apex is really tough... You have so much speed through the first apex, you have to slow down quite a bit to stop from hitting the wall (just after the 2nd apex)... I'm still trying to get the right feel for that section... If and when you make it... Make a little vid with the chase cam, so others can see the right line... That's if I don't make it first ...

hehe, just dying to talk about that car eh?
If you want to prepare SZ-R settings here and compare or contrast that car's handling to the RZ, then be my guest. I'm not going to change the topic car for this DSJ, but I might follow suit and also try my hand at that machine.

You bet I am... It has more problems than the RZ... You think the RZ has understeer?... Try the SZ-R...

(recently I've been absolutely dying to make a vid, for some reason)

Me too... I haven't captured any clips yet, but I have at least 20 saved replays...

edit: had a look at your revised settings now. heheh, our settings keep inching closer and closer towards one another.

Great minds think alike, bud...

 

[Boundary Layer]

The one Bustwave did in the IDM:VM Volume 1?...

That's the one. Getting through the first 2 kinks cleanly isn't too tough - as you say the trick is to carry enough speed through there to get to the third apex. The torque this car produces is a huge help there.

I have a whole night ahead of me to devote to figuring this out, so wish me luck

 

[Delphic Reason]

That's the one. Getting through the first 2 kinks cleanly isn't too tough - as you say the trick is to carry enough speed through there to get to the third apex. The torque this car produces is a huge help there.

I have a whole night ahead of me to devote to figuring this out, so wish me luck

Good luck bud... I was working on it yesterday (for about an hour) until I just gave up and moved on to another troubling link... I finally was able to get a good looking link through Grand Valley Full (you know the section), with the Supra RZ... I have made the link plenty of times, but making it smooth with decent angle and a good line was the problem... I will probably be including that clip in the next IDM vid (whenever that hasppens)...

 

[RXGem]

Can you guys tell me what sections, on Seattle and Grand V, you are talking about?

 

[Boundary Layer]

look here:



btw - I've had no better luck with the triple-apex this evening than you've had recently, DR. I 've made the double quite a few times, but can't quite stretch the triple. Feels like I've only got worse at it the more I tried, too.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

If these forums were a bit more active I would buy a cheap cap card too, I have like 8 replays of single laps, all hot laps of my HKS Silvia drifting, mostly are one laps with everything in it. If you take Midfield Reverse I got the last long corner linked as well. It's just everything the track has to offer in one lap

Try it out, and the longer you try, the faster you need to drift next round cause you will need to save your hotlap It's fun.

 

[Delphic Reason]

btw - I've had no better luck with the triple-apex this evening than you've had recently, DR. I 've made the double quite a few times, but can't quite stretch the triple. Feels like I've only got worse at it the more I tried, too.

I'm going to jump on it after work today... I have been dying to make that link since GT3... I was able to make the link once in GT3... GT4 is a whole new ballgame... My Sileighty, Supra RZ, or RX7 GTX should be up for the job...

Wish me luck...

 

[identti]

Good luck with the linking. The Grand Valley Link isn't too difficult with time, but the seattle one looks extremely hard as you have to negotiate a corner at abour 30 degrees, and then one at 90.

 

[Ske]

I included that Grand Valley link in my "Altered State" video... in a Supra RZ

Haven't really drifted Seattle that much at all, especially not in that direction.. will give it a shot!

 

[Suzuki]

look here:



btw - I've had no better luck with the triple-apex this evening than you've had recently, DR. I 've made the double quite a few times, but can't quite stretch the triple. Feels like I've only got worse at it the more I tried, too.

ive gotten that one on GV once before with a stock M3 on N1's. not that hard, just have to have the right line.
havent drifted seattle much in gt4.
also on GV try linking turns 13,14,and 15 together.
i need to go see what i can do with the supra. too understeery. ill have to try BL and DR's settings and see what i can come up with.

 

[Ske]

also on GV try linking turns 13,14,and 15 together.

That one is easier imo, but getting the "correct" line through the tight S is a bit tricky. I tend to go too far out on turn 14 (15?) constantly.... I'd like to nail those GV links in reverse though, but that requires some neat throttle work and a fair amount of power.

Turn 2-5 (3-6 if you count the first right before the hairpin) is also doable. That is the high speed left-right-left, across the short straight and through the 2nd hairpin. I can drift all the way to the hairpin, but it's very hard to steer the drift into the hairpin (am I making sense here?)

 

[Suzuki]

That one is easier imo, but getting the "correct" line through the tight S is a bit tricky. I tend to go too far out on turn 14 (15?) constantly.... I'd like to nail those GV links in reverse though, but that requires some neat throttle work and a fair amount of power.

Turn 2-5 (3-6 if you count the first right before the hairpin) is also doable. That is the high speed left-right-left, across the short straight and through the 2nd hairpin. I can drift all the way to the hairpin, but it's very hard to steer the drift into the hairpin (am I making sense here?)

well true. but with stock cars it is harder (turns 13-15 i think...)
2-5 is easy, as is linking it into the hairpin. they(hairpins) become easy once you know how to tackle them.
now off to check out DR and BL's settings for this thing...

 

[Ske]

well true. but with stock cars it is harder (turns 13-15 i think...)
2-5 is easy, as is linking it into the hairpin. they(hairpins) become easy once you know how to tackle them.

I'm talking into the hairpin without manji here, now don't come and tell me that's easy...

Anyway, I've made some final adjustments for the Supra (I think)... Based on DR's suspension settings: Ride height to 105/115, LSD 12/48/10, downforce 10/0 (very noticeable) and 380hp on N2s (N1 still an option at least for me)... Controlled footwork is a necessity, but it steers beautifully and is very very forgiving. Oh, and I added the Viper rims for that low profile look

 

[Suzuki]

I'm talking into the hairpin without manji here, now don't come and tell me that's easy...

ah ok. gotcha.
ill try that sometime or another.

 

[Boundary Layer]

Made a quick highlight video. Well, 'highlight' is a term I would use loosely here. Most of it is just me messing around and trying out George Paris as a drift course for the first time. There's quite a few mistakes captured here, but I'm not to concerned (thats just how I drift on the DFP ). I really just needed something to satisfy this urge I had to make a vid.

BL-DSJ9.wmv - right click , save as.

I used the settings posted in Post 23 with a DFP for the entire video.

Oh, and DR, there no triple-apex link in the vid, if you were wondering.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Oh, and DR, there no triple-apex link in the vid, if you were wondering.

Although there was an attempt... You made it a gnats wing from my best attempt... It seems nearly impossible, although I have a plan to make it work, and it involves a lot of horsepower, stickier tires, and a lot of seat time... Oh, and probably a case of beer...

Nice little vid... It looks like you're still having some trouble with low speeds, and exiting drifts... You might want to just lay off the throttle a bit... Use more half and quarter throttle...

Since you put out a little vid... I'll follow suit, and make a short little vid...

 

[Suzuki]

Made a quick highlight video. Well, 'highlight' is a term I would use loosely here. Most of it is just me messing around and trying out George Paris as a drift course for the first time. There's quite a few mistakes captured here, but I'm not to concerned (thats just how I drift on the DFP ). I really just needed something to satisfy this urge I had to make a vid.

BL-DSJ9.wmv - right click , save as.

I used the settings posted in Post 23 with a DFP for the entire video.

Oh, and DR, there no triple-apex link in the vid, if you were wondering.

linky no worky

 

[Boundary Layer]

Although there was an attempt... You made it a gnats wing from my best attempt... It seems nearly impossible, although I have a plan to make it work, and it involves a lot of horsepower, stickier tires, and a lot of seat time... Oh, and probably a case of beer...

read my mind, right down to the case of beer.
I had a few attempts that got a bit further than that, but they didn't end well - more often than not I paid a visit to the guardrail.

Nice little vid... It looks like you're still having some trouble with low speeds, and exiting drifts... You might want to just lay off the throttle a bit... Use more half and quarter throttle...

If you're referring to anything from George Paris, the fugly looking exits is as much a product of having too little trackspace on the entry as it is a product of over-zealous throttle. I ws just palying around and discovering the course as a drifting option - it's quite fun once you get over that initial frustration.

But ya, things like the exit on the hairpin at Seattle, or the slight hickup with the black supra at Midfield have always plagued me on the wheel. That's evident in my GTPDC4 vid (the spirra), or from any of my xlinking.

linky no worky

Try again... I think my host may have had some scheduled downtime

 

[Delphic Reason]

read my mind, right down to the case of beer.
I had a few attempts that got a bit further than that, but they didn't end well - more often than not I paid a visit to the guardrail.

Me too, my friend... I have become very attached to that guardrail, through our dealings...

If you're referring to anything from George Paris, the fugly looking exits is as much a product of having too little trackspace on the entry as it is a product of over-zealous throttle. I ws just palying around and discovering the course as a drifting option - it's quite fun once you get over that initial frustration.

But ya, things like the exit on the hairpin at Seattle, or the slight hickup with the black supra at Midfield have always plagued me on the wheel. That's evident in my GTPDC4 vid (the spirra), or from any of my xlinking.

Actually, I was refering to every drift... Every drift was exited poorly... I don't know if it has to do with the settings, or the technique... You seem to apply too much throttle (as you said) towards the end, and burn through your tires instead of going anywhere... This was my main problem when I started drifting in GT4... Now I am typically never at full throttle at any point, unless I absolutely need to be... I'm sure you understand these things, but I thought I would point it out... The exit of a drift is the most important part of a drift... If you perform a perfect smooth drift with good angle, but you mess up the exit, the drift is for not, in my opinion...

I actually drift on George quite a bit... I will have some clips of that in my next vid... The only problem with the track is that no matter what you do, it doesn't look all that exciting... No high speed smoky drifts....

The big circle is a lot of fun... I spent quite a bit of time on that with my Fairlady 2000...

 

[identti]

I have the same problem when exiting corners, especially in high powered cars, I sometimes just keep the throttle pinned, and I can feel how the car snaps back into place.

 

[Delphic Reason]

I have the same problem when exiting corners, especially in high powered cars, I sometimes just keep the throttle pinned, and I can feel how the car snaps back into place.

It all comes down to balancing the tire choice with the power to weight ratio, and LSD settings... Something that is easier said than done...

 

[identti]

I'm improving a bit using a lightweight car for the GTPDC:6 tournament. I've also cracked all of the links after the esses, just not in one run yet.

 

[Boundary Layer]

You seem to apply too much throttle (as you said) towards the end, and burn through your tires instead of going anywhere...

Ah, I got what you're saying, and I'm guilty as charged. Must just be a knee-jerk reaction of mine that I've made a habit out of with the lower powered cars I more frequently drift. I'll keep that thought in mind in the future. 👍