Duke Racing Celica GT-Four Time Attack Racecar
- Thread starter Punknoodle
- 1,059 comments
- 146,405 views
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
Beautiful car, my favorite Celica body style too. I wish they had sold these in the USA.
I saw a white one with an all trac conversion sell for $9000 in my area last year, but a converison like that would make me very nervous unless I know who did the work.
I saw a white one with an all trac conversion sell for $9000 in my area last year, but a converison like that would make me very nervous unless I know who did the work.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
They did sell these in the US, it's just they were called the All-Trac and were spec'd differently.
And sorry Camaroboy but I don't like that idea..
And sorry Camaroboy but I don't like that idea..
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
The ST185 was not available with an All trac/GT Four option in the USA, perhaps you are thinking of the ST165 or the ST205?
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
It was only a suggestion but to be honest I like the black wheels with red Enkei letters you posted above in post #384 the best. I think those would look the best on your car.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
I'm not mistaken, mate. The ST205 wasn't available in the US but the ST185 was.
Edit: Quick wiki link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Trac
Edit: Quick wiki link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Trac
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- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
The only All trac Celica model I have seen in the USA is the ST165. I haven't seen any others. I have heard of people swapping the drivetrain out of the ST165's into a 90-93 Celica GT, but that is very risky even if you are the most skilled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Celica_GT-Four
ST185 (1989-1993)
"Out of 5000 units, 1800 were for Japanese market, 3000 were allocated to Europe, 150 were delivered to Australia, 25 for Singapore, and very few made a trip to New Zealand and general markets."
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- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
Please visit a forum called Alltrac.net 
It's an American forum, you will see plenty of domestic ST185 examples
It's an American forum, you will see plenty of domestic ST185 examples
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
Please visit a forum called Alltrac.net
Edited post, please see the above. They weren't available here in the US. People that have them here have converted or swapped to get it.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
That is for the Group A/RC/Carlos Sainz edition. If you go to the very top of that wiki page you will see a section that clearly states: Also known as Alltrac in Northern America
- 3,202
- Murcie LP710
https://www.google.com.au/#safe=off...cp.r_qf.&fp=4700427ed485b490&biw=1920&bih=993
Genuine ST185 All-Tracs were available in the US.
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
I found a site that said 1,605 models were indeed exported to North American, apparently 2500 were produced but the balance went to racing teams and were not available for public sale. Now, of the 1605 models that were exported to North America, I wonder how many were actually shipped to the USA and not Canada or Mexico? Like I said, I've never seen an ST185 All trac in the USA that wasn't a swapped or converted GT(s). Obviously they must exist but are extremely rare. Maybe I'll get lucky and find one someday.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
Glad we got that sorted
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
Just my opinion but I think on your car's color, Silver wheels would look better.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
I'll buy them in Silver and put them up against the car and if I don't quite like it I'll get them coated
- 331
- KUSHifornia
- MaliciousMD
- MaliciousMD
Silver or white I think would look best with your car color. Having owned white rims before, I can also recommend against them as they're a PITA to keep looking good and clean...
EDIT: Just saw the following post...
An ST, GT or GTS 5th Generation FWD model Celica does NOT have provisions in the unibody for the AWD drivetrain. So a conversion is not as simple as sourcing the drive train. In my Celica days it was deemed "foolishly impossible" for the average joe due to the amount of fabrication work required to make a FWD chassis fit the AWD drive train. Nor have I ever seen a successful conversion. A GTS model may look like it on the outside due to the shared hatchback only & wider fenders. I'd really have to see it to believe it, but I've been out of the Celica game for over 10 years. But I've laid my hands on enough 4th, 5th and 6th Gen's of varying trim levels and engine packages to know my way around them. Anything that was FWD you see with a 3SGTE swap is still FWD. Chassis codes speak for themselves as well (AT180, ST182, ST183 and ST184). Those are all FWD chassis with different engines depending on region. ST185 is exclusive to AWD and 3SGTE to all regions. Same goes for ST16x and ST20x generations...
Like the early USDM Mirage guys trying to do EVO III & EVO IV drive drain swaps, that ish doesn't just bolt up because theres nowhere to actually bolt anything to.
Sorry PunkNoodle, not hi-jacking, you know I have 5th Gen love!
EDIT: Just saw the following post...
DDastardly00
An ST, GT or GTS 5th Generation FWD model Celica does NOT have provisions in the unibody for the AWD drivetrain. So a conversion is not as simple as sourcing the drive train. In my Celica days it was deemed "foolishly impossible" for the average joe due to the amount of fabrication work required to make a FWD chassis fit the AWD drive train. Nor have I ever seen a successful conversion. A GTS model may look like it on the outside due to the shared hatchback only & wider fenders. I'd really have to see it to believe it, but I've been out of the Celica game for over 10 years. But I've laid my hands on enough 4th, 5th and 6th Gen's of varying trim levels and engine packages to know my way around them. Anything that was FWD you see with a 3SGTE swap is still FWD. Chassis codes speak for themselves as well (AT180, ST182, ST183 and ST184). Those are all FWD chassis with different engines depending on region. ST185 is exclusive to AWD and 3SGTE to all regions. Same goes for ST16x and ST20x generations...
Like the early USDM Mirage guys trying to do EVO III & EVO IV drive drain swaps, that ish doesn't just bolt up because theres nowhere to actually bolt anything to.
Sorry PunkNoodle, not hi-jacking, you know I have 5th Gen love!
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- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
Not a problem mate I'm more than happy for this thread to have relevant discussions in it, especially when people such as yourself provide good quality information 👍
So I ordered some parts today, as there was a group buy on for them on a forum I am a member of. They are pretty much a make to order item that don't come around very often (the demand for Gen 5 Celica after market parts isn't too great) so I thought it was a good opportunity.
New uprated rear subframe bushes, new uprated front diff mount bushes and a solid aluminium rear diff mount that replaces the rubber cushion. Even though you won't see it unless you are looking I'll get the mount anodised. I'm thinking I'll just have these sitting on the shelf for a while until I buy a Cusco limited slip centre and get it installed in the diff, and replace the driveshaft centre bearings while I'm at it. No rush in putting them in as my current set up is ok and it's a lot of work and a realignment to put them in.
So I ordered some parts today, as there was a group buy on for them on a forum I am a member of. They are pretty much a make to order item that don't come around very often (the demand for Gen 5 Celica after market parts isn't too great) so I thought it was a good opportunity.
New uprated rear subframe bushes, new uprated front diff mount bushes and a solid aluminium rear diff mount that replaces the rubber cushion. Even though you won't see it unless you are looking I'll get the mount anodised. I'm thinking I'll just have these sitting on the shelf for a while until I buy a Cusco limited slip centre and get it installed in the diff, and replace the driveshaft centre bearings while I'm at it. No rush in putting them in as my current set up is ok and it's a lot of work and a realignment to put them in.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
Nothing else really to report, Diff Mount/Subframe Bush Kit hasn't arrived yet, shouldn't be far away.
I'm planning on doing Time Attack at Queensland Raceway on Sept 12, which is 6 sessions of 6 laps each, only a few cars on the track at the same time, not racing each other, just smashing out laps to try and better your own time.
Did a cruise with some other Celica folk in the weekend - here is a shot of me behind the wheel on the cruise..
I'm planning on doing Time Attack at Queensland Raceway on Sept 12, which is 6 sessions of 6 laps each, only a few cars on the track at the same time, not racing each other, just smashing out laps to try and better your own time.
Did a cruise with some other Celica folk in the weekend - here is a shot of me behind the wheel on the cruise..
- 451
- Midwest
Very, very nice Celica in all aspects. 👍
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
Had a pretty good day today, albeit quite frustrating. I went out to a round of Time Attack at Queensland Raceway with the car, my aim isn't to be competitive, just to improve my driving and enjoy the car.
It was a blisteringly hot day out there today. The way the event rolls is you are split in to classes, then you go out on track with space between you, and just cut laps as fast as you can. No racing each other through corners - its time attack so its only supposed to be you vs the clock.
Some impressive machines out there today:
The event is divided into 6 sessions - 3 on the Sprint layout, and 3 on Clubman
In each session you get a warm up and then 5 flying laps. I really enjoyed both layouts, but I preferred Clubman, I just liked the middle sector a lot more.
Unfortunately, the car had some issues. Each time I took it on track, I would get one or two laps in, and then the ECU would go in to limp mode on Coolant Overtemp. I suspect the sensor isn't calibrated correctly, or its faulty as my heat gun read healthy numbers but regardless, it rendered my sessions a lot shorter than they should have been. It was really frustrating as my brakes were holding up fine and it was ruining my flow, its hard to improve lap times when you have to stop for 20-30 mins after only getting one good lap in..
So my first time ever on the Sprint layout I did a 1.07, which I was fairly happy with, and after that I was just getting consistent 1.08s. Its quite slow, and going off my on-board footage, I know where I can improve. I down-shifted unnecessarily in some places (Turn 2 in particular), slowed down far too much for Turn 1 and some of my lines were bollocks. Its just that in a car that you have put a lot of time and effort in to keeping it in good condition, I was probably a little more conservative than if it were, say, a pure competition car. Maybe I need to stop being so precious towards it if I'm going to keep tracking it. Still try to keep it in superb condition of course, but not sweat it too much if it goes off track. I mean, sports cars are supposed to be used, right? And it's not exactly in show room condition as it is.
By the time we got on to Clubman I was being quite gentle on the car to try and get it to stop overheating, and the ECU was pulling the timing quite a bit - I could feel it losing power on the straight. My best time on Clubman was a 1.12. Again, not fast but its a start, right?
Anyway, I now have a serious bug. I want to sell my rims and chuck on racing rims and semis. I want to revise my cooling systems. I want bigger brakes. I want to go racing all the time. Its not possible right now, but it's definitely something I am going to work towards. First step is the cooling systems, and ECU sensor to try and at least get the car to complete a session. I don't need more power, I enjoyed the power I had, its all about the endurance. I'll keep you posted.
I'll leave you with a little bit of on-board video..
It was a blisteringly hot day out there today. The way the event rolls is you are split in to classes, then you go out on track with space between you, and just cut laps as fast as you can. No racing each other through corners - its time attack so its only supposed to be you vs the clock.
Some impressive machines out there today:
The event is divided into 6 sessions - 3 on the Sprint layout, and 3 on Clubman
In each session you get a warm up and then 5 flying laps. I really enjoyed both layouts, but I preferred Clubman, I just liked the middle sector a lot more.
Unfortunately, the car had some issues. Each time I took it on track, I would get one or two laps in, and then the ECU would go in to limp mode on Coolant Overtemp. I suspect the sensor isn't calibrated correctly, or its faulty as my heat gun read healthy numbers but regardless, it rendered my sessions a lot shorter than they should have been. It was really frustrating as my brakes were holding up fine and it was ruining my flow, its hard to improve lap times when you have to stop for 20-30 mins after only getting one good lap in..
So my first time ever on the Sprint layout I did a 1.07, which I was fairly happy with, and after that I was just getting consistent 1.08s. Its quite slow, and going off my on-board footage, I know where I can improve. I down-shifted unnecessarily in some places (Turn 2 in particular), slowed down far too much for Turn 1 and some of my lines were bollocks. Its just that in a car that you have put a lot of time and effort in to keeping it in good condition, I was probably a little more conservative than if it were, say, a pure competition car. Maybe I need to stop being so precious towards it if I'm going to keep tracking it. Still try to keep it in superb condition of course, but not sweat it too much if it goes off track. I mean, sports cars are supposed to be used, right? And it's not exactly in show room condition as it is.
By the time we got on to Clubman I was being quite gentle on the car to try and get it to stop overheating, and the ECU was pulling the timing quite a bit - I could feel it losing power on the straight. My best time on Clubman was a 1.12. Again, not fast but its a start, right?
Anyway, I now have a serious bug. I want to sell my rims and chuck on racing rims and semis. I want to revise my cooling systems. I want bigger brakes. I want to go racing all the time. Its not possible right now, but it's definitely something I am going to work towards. First step is the cooling systems, and ECU sensor to try and at least get the car to complete a session. I don't need more power, I enjoyed the power I had, its all about the endurance. I'll keep you posted.
I'll leave you with a little bit of on-board video..
- 9,473
- QLD, Down Under
- GTP_Paulie
- Paulie LDP
Good quality onboard video.👍 It's a shame about the bugs but at the same time I'm glad to hear nothing worse went wrong. If you've got the bug you'd best invest in a HANS device. I read the other day that as of 2014, QLD Raceways will make them mandatory to compete. If you're a QR licence holder currently they're offering discounts for them apparently to help ease the transition for people.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
I heard that too, the problem is to use a HANS device you need a harness. Which means you need at minimum a racing seat but better yet a cage. Could get pricey and I think it's a little unrealistic for casual time attack people. It's where I want to head anyway but it's a big expense..
- 1,759
- NZ
Looks like a good day apart from the ECU throwing it's toys.
The HANS device is held to your shoulders by a racing harness, then the helmet is strapped to the HANS device restricting the helmet movement, in turn supporting your head and neck. So your head is strapped to your shoulders which is strapped to the car.
The HANS device is held to your shoulders by a racing harness, then the helmet is strapped to the HANS device restricting the helmet movement, in turn supporting your head and neck. So your head is strapped to your shoulders which is strapped to the car.
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- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
I had a little more time to look over the logs and from the looks of things, the car actually cut out because the air temp got too hot. It was about 30°C ambient, and my lowest intake air temp was 58°C and it cut out at 70°C!
The coolant temp rises with it, and while it is getting quite hot, it isn't what caused it to cut out. I'm thinking it's getting hot because of 2 things - the large heat exchanger mounted in front of the radiator and causing bad airflow to the radiator (although you see radiators mounted behind intercoolers all the time, I think the heat exchanger must have crap flow, hence the poor intake temps!) and because it is running on hot air.
So I have a plan I'm putting in to place, I'm going to buy a Group A bumper and support bars for it from Toyota, they are fairly pricey but it's the only way I can fit a decent size intercooler in there, plus they look great and have a large opening which will help cooling even more:
And of course to go with that I'll be buying a good front mount intercooler, clocking the turbo so it's outlet faces down and doing some nice piping.
Hopefully this solves my cooling issues..
The coolant temp rises with it, and while it is getting quite hot, it isn't what caused it to cut out. I'm thinking it's getting hot because of 2 things - the large heat exchanger mounted in front of the radiator and causing bad airflow to the radiator (although you see radiators mounted behind intercoolers all the time, I think the heat exchanger must have crap flow, hence the poor intake temps!) and because it is running on hot air.
So I have a plan I'm putting in to place, I'm going to buy a Group A bumper and support bars for it from Toyota, they are fairly pricey but it's the only way I can fit a decent size intercooler in there, plus they look great and have a large opening which will help cooling even more:
And of course to go with that I'll be buying a good front mount intercooler, clocking the turbo so it's outlet faces down and doing some nice piping.
Hopefully this solves my cooling issues..
- 4,213
- Puerto Rico
- motortrend
That's gonna look sweet 👍 hope you get that issue resolved
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
That seems like a clear solution.
Is there a downstream (other end of engine bay) cooling vent? Cool air in the front with the new bumper, hot air out the back with something similar to brake venting ducts behind the front wheels.
The turbo's on the end of the motor that won't get the fresh air from the new bumper. If there is a vent for the turbo/exhaust side, it might be worth it to try to get the vent working perfectly. Cool turbo is good, after all, right?
Is there a downstream (other end of engine bay) cooling vent? Cool air in the front with the new bumper, hot air out the back with something similar to brake venting ducts behind the front wheels.
The turbo's on the end of the motor that won't get the fresh air from the new bumper. If there is a vent for the turbo/exhaust side, it might be worth it to try to get the vent working perfectly. Cool turbo is good, after all, right?
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