Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship 2012

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I wonder if Team Hard will run 2 of the VW's and sell the other 2 once made to AmD who were planning to go to NGTC.

Total speculation from me /Disclaimer

 

[Strawman Andy]

Lots of teams without cars, wsr still no news on what they'll be running, es racing might upgrade to ngtc, amd have no car, so many possibilitys

 

[Furinkazen]

Lots of teams without cars, wsr still no news on what they'll be running, es racing might upgrade to ngtc, amd have no car, so many possibilitys

Honda perhaps?

 

[Strawman Andy]

Honda perhaps?

For which team? So many teams looking for cars

 

[Furinkazen]

Wsr? Gilham surely would sell his Honda with the size of this new operation?

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Hopefully 2013 will get O'neill back behind the wheel, and not mincing about the place with a microphone lol.

That must have been absolute torture for him this year.

 

[Strawman Andy]

Wsr? Gilham surely would sell his Honda with the size of this new operation?

Possibly, but wsr haven't said much so they could turn up with anything or many stick with s2000 for one more year

 

[Diehardracer]

Possibly, but wsr haven't said much so they could turn up with anything or many stick with s2000 for one more year

The beemer has had it's day fo me. It was very good indeed. WSR/EbayMotors were never outside the top 3 in the Independent Teams Championship and was very competitive with Pirtek the whole way through. WSR took 2nd and 3rd in the Independent Drivers Championship with Rob Collard and Tom Onslow Cole who were also 5th and 6th in the Drivers Championship. Notable success at individual races was a common occurrence through 2012. But for me the team just needed that bit extra consistency and they would have done so much better.

I think a new car to replace the 7 year old 320si is needed. One they can work on and be successful in the future with. They won't be dominant straight away I shouldn't imagine but in about 2-3 years time I like to think they will be. Short term pain for long term gain if you will.

 

[Strawman Andy]

The beemer has had it's day fo me. It was very good indeed. WSR/EbayMotors were never outside the top 3 in the Independent Teams Championship and was very competitive with Pirtek the whole way through. WSR took 2nd and 3rd in the Independent Drivers Championship with Rob Collard and Tom Onslow Cole who were also 5th and 6th in the Drivers Championship. Notable success at individual races was a common occurrence through 2012. But for me the team just needed that bit extra consistency and they would have done so much better.

I think a new car to replace the 7 year old 320si is needed. One they can work on and be successful in the future with. They won't be dominant straight away I shouldn't imagine but in about 2-3 years time I like to think they will be. Short term pain for long term gain if you will.

WSR choice, I agree with that they do need a new car, they do need a NGTC to have any hope for the championship, and they know that, but I think it depends on funding and if they can make three NGTC cars or buy three, or will they have to cut down to two drivers?

Would be nice to see BMW on the grid, would be bad if only Austin was the only RWD team with the Audi

 

[Furinkazen]

Thing is BMW show no signs of changing their car in the WTCC either do they?

 

[MatskiMonk]

BMW have no plans for a factory F30 touring car as yet, which is a big shame, but there's nothing to stop an independent from building something... maybe other than maybe the cost and the risk.

Edit:

Thought I throw this in.. it's a 335, but it gives you an idea.

Personally I really miss having competitive BMW's to support in Touring cars.. the E90's been fantastic.. but it's long in the tooth, time for something new BMW!!

 

[Ardius]

WSR don't have to go with BMW of course, but they are capable of building their own cars. So I don't really see them buying Passats.

Also, BMW don't have to fully fund the development of an NGTC car, they can do what Toyota do (supply a bit of budget and the shells) or just provide the shells for free/cheap.

There was talk that Audi UK were following Rob Austin's progress too...

I'm sure WSR will be fielding NGTC-somethings as Dick Bennetts said as much when ITV interviewed all the championship-contending team principals at Silverstone.

Of course, WSR might run the S2000 BMWs again and have a run at the S2000 "Jack Sears" trophy. They would surely win it by miles.

Right now we don't have any teams confirming S2000 entries? Are we going to see those cars gone completely I wonder? Even though they are cheaper to run right now than NGTC, they don't offer much value in BTCC. I thought maybe Shaun Hollamby's AmD squad or ES Racing might run their S2000 cars for rookies to have a go at BTCC..but they're both talking about moving to NGTC now.

There are actually quite a few active NGTC cars active now, enough for a decent grid without the S2000 cars:
-2 MG6
-4 Honda Civics
-2 Audi A4s
-2(4?) VW Passats
-2 Vauxhall Insignias
-1(2?) Proton Gen-2
-2(3?) Ford Focus
-3(4?) Toyota Avensis

 

[MatskiMonk]

Also, BMW don't have to fully fund the development of an NGTC car, they can do what Toyota do (supply a bit of budget and the shells) or just provide the shells for free/cheap.

It would be easy enough for them to do I'm sure, but I don't think it's how they work, BMW Motorsport likes to sell customer cars (Z4 GT3, M3 GT4, 320TC). I don't think they'd want partial works involvement since it might yield poor results and reflect badly.

Best idea (IMHO) is for BMW UK or a BMW Dealer to fund a team like WSR, much like Mat Jacksons team did with BMW Dealer Team UK, and have WSR build an NGTC F30.

 

[Ardius]

Personally I think that the BTCC is currently benefitting from having only moderate manufacturer involvement because it means there isn't just 1 or 2 huge teams dominating with huge budgets.
Its impressive how many small independent teams are running their own models rather than everyone buying the same customer car. Perhaps a sign of many teams trying to court different manufacturers into giving them a bit of money - which seems to be working seeing as apparently even people from Proton have been guests with Welch for example.

Long may it continue as what I enjoy about watching BTCC is having around 10 different models of car on screen all at once, and all of them in with a shout of winning races. It gives such a variety that you only find really in GT racing or in lower categories - and even in those races you tend to get 1 or 2 models running away with it.

 

[Furinkazen]

There are actually quite a few active NGTC cars active now, enough for a decent grid without the S2000 cars:
-2 MG6
-4 Honda Civics
-2 Audi A4s
-2(4?) VW Passats
-2 Vauxhall Insignias
-1(2?) Proton Gen-2
-2(3?) Ford Focus
-3(4?) Toyota Avensis

4 Insignia's. Thorney are supposed to be running two of their own new improved next year with an announcement and launch at Autosport International...

Unless that Gilham's Team HARD are helping Thorney with the Vauxhall and they are the "second team" talked about in their statement with the 4 Passats in the other?

 

[Ardius]

Thorney has said he wants to run 2 Insignias himself or at least sell more to customers...but I made that list based on cars that we know definitely exist...I take stuff to do with Thorney with a pinch of salt.

Every year we get people talking about taking part and they don't appear. Several teams have talked about running extra cars if they can..but its unlikely all of them will be.
At this point I think Gilham is being optimistic about running 6 cars and the way he worded the press release makes it sound like he'll only be running 1 Passat at least from race 1.

 

[Furinkazen]

Thorney has said he wants to run 2 Insignias himself or at least sell more to customers...but I made that list based on cars that we know definitely exist...I take stuff to do with Thorney with a pinch of salt.

Every year we get people talking about taking part and they don't appear. Several teams have talked about running extra cars if they can..but its unlikely all of them will be.
At this point I think Gilham is being optimistic about running 6 cars and the way he worded the press release makes it sound like he'll only be running 1 Passat at least from race 1.

Gilham won't get to run 6 without a couple pay drivers ~cough Neate, James~, and of course... where did that Skoda Superb (incidentally similar car to the Passat) get to last year?

 

[Strawman Andy]

Yeah I think its great Gilham is growing his team, and giving more opportunities for other drivers, but I do think he might be going over his head with 6 cars, I reckon 4 would be a very successful for them.

But I think if they dont focus on developing the cars, they will have a large team but slow rubbish cars and end up with no one wanting to race for them or sponsor them - hopefully Gilham doesn't do that

 

[Furinkazen]

I think running two Passats and keeping two (even if they are race-ready) for spares would be a better option.

 

[Diehardracer]

Of course, WSR might run the S2000 BMWs again and have a run at the S2000 "Jack Sears" trophy. They would surely win it by miles.

All depends on how much importance all the teams place on the Jack Sears Trophy and where it will be in the scheme of things.

Dick could decide to run 2x NGTC cars and 1x S2000 for the Jack Sears Trophy which would allow him to keep a three car team and compete in the Jack Sears Trophy if the trophy is deemed important enough.

But I think Dick is more driven to be successful and be one of the best teams on the BTCC grid than that.

 

[Ardius]

Oh yeah, WSR should be up there fighting for the title, ideally with Turkington and Collard (and Onslow-Cole!).
But to me it seems like an easy and logical deal for teams like WSR or Motorbase to run cars on the side for paying rookies to try and fight for the S2000 Trophy. Win-win for both as there is the possibility for the team to take all the titles (except manufacturers I guess) and its a great opportunity for a rookie to make an impact and take home a trophy.

I mean, if Gilham is capable of running so many programmes at once, it makes you wonder why some of the other teams couldn't as long as they could get the budget to do it obviously.

I'm also trying to work out where the S2000 cars fit in, because so far it seems like no one is going to run them.

Maybe a good time to try and get a racing license and find a chunk of money .

 

[Tom]

There's a thought, I wonder if Turkington could come back with Team HARD. Especially if they've got a pay driver in one of their cars.

 

[MatskiMonk]

WSR to run NGTC BMW 125i's in 2013

Freakin' Sweet

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=8469

 

[Liquid]

125s?

Very. Interesting.

 

[Tom]

Indeed, very happy to hear that. It's nice to see some RWD's on the grid!

 

[Furinkazen]

Wow.

 

[Clark]

F30 3 Series is too big, 1 series is perfect size.

 

[MatskiMonk]

F30 3 Series is too big, 1 series is perfect size.

Yeah, thing is I hate hatchbacks, I would rather it be an F30, but the 2 litre 125i makes sense I guess... so long as it wins.

Either way, I shall be there... going to go an catch me some BTCC action now there is a BMW interest for me (as in, something different)

 

[Liquid]

Yeah, I kind of hate the fact that 'touring car' seemingly equals hatchback.

Saloons or possibly notchbacks are what I perceive as a touring car. But times change, unfortunately.

 

[Ardius]

Eh, I don't mind hatchback touring cars. I think some of them look fantastic (previous generation Ford Focus, Seat Leon, Honda Civic, VW Golf).

I like variety in touring cars so hatchbacks, saloons, coupes, whatever is welcome in my eyes.
In an ideal world, it should be more like the old days of Minis versus american muscles cars and Jags. That was true variety with wildly different strengths and weaknesses.

Not to mention a rear-wheel drive hatchback is going to be very interesting to see on the track. Should be fun seeing Collard hussle this!