EgyptAir MS804 Incident

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CNN is speculating that weather has not played a factor. If it had, the plane would have crashed in the Alps, not in the middle of the Mediterranean.
 
Given the departure and destination the first thought has to be terrorism, unfortunately. It's a safe type and this one wasn't so old in A320 terms.

If so (and it isn't a given) it would most likely be a bomb. The plane didn't deviate and wasn't in range of ground launchers - it was still over sea and holding course at over 36,000 feet when the transponder stopped.

SUGCC.JPG
 
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I'm thinking the same. I'm also thinking they tried to detonate when it was close to Cairo, so people could see it..

I'm not so sure, not a lot of people would be watching a jet at FL3600 approaching over the Med. Unless you mean it was timed to go off in Cairo? I guess that's a possibility.

BBC now reporting that they believe a distress call was made, no details on that.

EDIT:

BBC
In a series of tweets, EgyptAir confirms a distress call was received from flight MS804 - it then despatched search teams at about 04:26 Cairo time.

Reuters have spoken to the Greek controller who was the last routine handler, he states that the flight reported no problems at that time.

EDIT 2: Authorities still deny reports of a distress signal.
 
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Eurocontrol doesn't think that the weather had anything to do with the crash.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's another terrorist bomb.
 
Suggestions that radar saw significant and unusual movement from the plane before the assumed loss. To caution; there are lots of rumours about which are being simultaneously confirmed and denied by various authorities.

Quentin Somerville
#MS804 "made swerves and a descent ..90 degrees left & then 360 degrees to the right," Greek Defence Minister Panos Kammenos via @Reuters

Quentin Somerville
EgyptAir plane fell 22,000 feet, spun sharply before disappearance: Greek defence minister via @AFP

More clarity (possibly) on the "distress signal" too, this from the Egyptians;

What we can say is that the communication stopped at a particular point, or in a particular area, and the search is currently under way. There is a statement from the armed forces saying that they received, not a distress call, but a signal. We are currently checking this.

In terms of a pilot's priorities in an emergency (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate), it seems they were barely able to achieve step one. The thinking at the moment has to be of a catastrophic airframe failure, an explosion caused by external means (bomb or missile) or a serious intervention in the cockpit itself.

I think a missile is the least likely scenario but I'm sure we'll hear more of that theory.
 
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A distress signal would be squawking 7700, it was done 2 times this past week due to medical issues on the plane

But squawking 7700 would show up on radar.
 
Strange to hear of sharp turns at what is essentially cruising altitude. :(

Hopefully the warmer weather and temps of the sea will yield some survivors.
 
A distress signal would be squawking 7700

Yes, but it could also be a number of other signals including the activation of emergency locators aboard the airframe, the recorders, and so on.

The BBC carry a statement from Cpt. Alan Carter who was commanding a 747 on the same route from Jeddah to Milan, he says the weather was good and the route was quiet.

BBC
The weather was perfect. I was captain of my Boeing 747 from Milan to Jeddah, flying on the same route. We were flying at 39,000 ft, EgyptAir at 37,000 ft. All air traffic communication systems were operating normally. It was a quiet time - I spoke to Athens radar and remarked how quiet it was, and was told there were only five aircraft in the airspace. Communications with Cairo radar were all normal too.

EDIT:

An Egyptian captain has posted photos of a lifejacket and part of an aircraft seat, all that's currently been found.

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Sounds like TWA 800 with the sudden uncontrolled descent, but at cruising altitude.

Awful news. Even more awful if this is a terrorist attack.
 
Unless you mean it was timed to go off in Cairo?
Yes, a type of fear tactic of the sorts.

A distress signal would be squawking 7700, it was done 2 times this past week due to medical issues on the plane

But squawking 7700 would show up on radar.
I believe there are quite a few more codes, some specific, per incidents on aircraft.

  • 7700 - Emergency this will be an indication on the controller's screen that your aircraft has experienced an emergency.
  • 7600 - Radio Failure
  • 7777 - Military Interceptor Operations
  • 7500 - Hijack
 
The wreckage has been located near Karpathia. Officials now describe their efforts as "search and recovery", there is no word of any survivors. BBC.
 
Confusion reigns over the earlier-reported wreckage. Egypt are, it seems, still reporting that the lifejackets et al were from the missing flight. Greece's lead air accident investigator states that they are categorically not from any aircraft.
 
Can we please include the nationalities of the people who were lost to the OP? According to the link that @TenEightyOne provided, they are:

30 Egyptians
15 French
2 Iraqis
1 from Britain, Canada, Belgium, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Sudan, Chad and Portugal.
 
Confusion reigns over the earlier-reported wreckage. Egypt are, it seems, still reporting that the lifejackets et al were from the missing flight. Greece's lead air accident investigator states that they are categorically not from any aircraft.

EgyptAir themselves now also state that the wreckage isn't from their airplane.
 
Can we please include the nationalities of the people who were lost to the OP? According to the link that @TenEightyOne provided, they are:

30 Egyptians
15 French
2 Iraqis
1 from Britain, Canada, Belgium, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Sudan, Chad and Portugal.

Including up to 4 air marshals, according to Fox news.

Of course they would, they don't want it to be their disaster.. If it's not prevalent with Malaysian already, being involved in terrorist attacks lately has been crippling airlines.

Not only could the (state) airline be crippled, the tourist industry and the entire Egyptian national economy, the criminal regime itself could be at stake.

This also could reflect very poorly on France, which has very recently claimed it has taken measures including arresting airport workers to improve airport security.

It's in no one's interest - except EU exiters, nationalists and Trumpists - that this be a terrorist incident.

So it's cold soup du jour, until the light of day.
 
If it "were" a bomb or some sort of issue that caused structural failure there would be debris floating all over the ocean.
Air France 447 crashed due to pilot error and there was few debris floating on the surface.

Hopefully this was not due to another pilot crashing the plane.
 
I don't know why we can't just put some CCTVs on every airplane for example:

1. one on the outside of the cockpit window (monitoring inside the pilot & copilot's activity)
2. a couple inside the passenger's cabin
3. and maybe one more at the tail or anything..

and stream those to the ground servers so that if anything happen (like this) we can easily find out what was causing the plane missing.
and it doesn't have to be HD quality, just standard 640x480 @30fps low bitrate will do.

how hard is it to provide some 5Mbps internet connection on an airplane? (I'm actually asking this)
 
Egyptian state tv now reports that debris has been found, 50 km north of Alexandria.
 
how hard is it to provide some 5Mbps internet connection on an airplane? (I'm actually asking this)

Quite.

Without any easy method to transmit an internet signal it is going to be a pain.
Some planes offer internet but it is slow as hell.

And you cant use satellites either.
VGA or SVGA at 30fps needs to be at least 2mbps for good quality to see what is happening and for any overhead for signal loss.
Now how many cameras on each plane?
How many planes will have these cameras.
On average there are 5000 planes in the air above the US.

Lets use math to work out what will be happening.
5000 planes X 2mbps =10gbps of bandwidth and that is just for one camera
10gbps X number of cameras = 20, 30gbps.

That is alot of throughput and where will all this data be stored?
Who will have access to it?
How secure will it really be?

Lets say Air Famine or Grayfox Airlines are actual companies
Do they want another country having audio-video of their pilots when the company is not from said country where the data is being stored?

I cant answer for any real company but i do not think so.
Plus when auto pilot is on the pilots private conversions will be viewable/heard on the stream which is an invasion of privacy as only the pilots in the cockpit to hear it(apart from the CVR(which doesn't matter unless something happened)).

If the pilots are just talking amongst themselves about the company pushing their workers too hard and making them work too many hours and the company was listening in they can get sacked.

Now in the event of total power loss, planes have the ability to generate power via a rat turbine which is used to power cockpit flight controls, this means internet and the CCTV will not be recording.

And IIRC the Airbus A380 has a camera mounted on the tail which feeds to the passenger cabin LCD screens so passengers can view the plane taking off.
 
How about an integrated system that sends a distress signal if the plane makes any unusual manoeuvres or deviates from its agreed flightpath by a certain amount? This would be fully automated and out of the flight crew's control, then the plane could be contacted externally to confirm with the crew if anything wrong or there was a legitimate reason for the movements/changes. This could also be linked to a video system which could kick in as soon as unusual movements or changes of direction were detected.
 
Plus when auto pilot is on the pilots private conversions will be viewable/heard on the stream which is an invasion of privacy as only the pilots in the cockpit to hear it(apart from the CVR(which doesn't matter unless something happened)).

That's correct, and even after an incident the recordings themselves remain private due to an action by pilots' unions. Transcripts of pertinent data are released, extraneous "chatter" isn't unless it has a casuative impact on sterile cockpit protocols.

And IIRC the Airbus A380 has a camera mounted on the tail which feeds to the passenger cabin LCD screens so passengers can view the plane taking off.

In the Qantas incident that led to a scenario where the passengers were able to see the damage but the aircraft commander wasn't. That's all changed now, of course.

I don't know why we can't just put some CCTVs on every airplane for example...and stream those to the ground servers...

As @Grayfox points out the bandwidth denies that. A better solution would be to have those recordings on the plane in another data recorder. The bandwidth should be given to a real-time GPS broadcast from the plane with a ghost power supply. The priority is finding the aircraft, I'm afraid, figuring out what happened comes second to recovery.

How about an integrated system that sends a distress signal if the plane makes any unusual manoeuvres or deviates from its agreed flightpath by a certain amount? This would be fully automated and out of the flight crew's control, then the plane could be contacted externally to confirm with the crew if anything wrong or there was a legitimate reason for the movements/changes. This could also be linked to a video system which could kick in as soon as unusual movements or changes of direction were detected.

That would be covered in my above proposition. I stand by the thought that knowing what happened doesn't help to find the plane, it's not important data in the first instance for anyone other than headline writers.
 
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