EMT Refuses to Help Dying Pregnant Woman

[dylansan]

@MW

Your first post was this:

This makes me want to shoot myself in the head. SMH America 👎.

So the fact that an EMT, who had no way of saving this person, called an ambulance but didn't stand by her to comfort her, makes you want to kill yourself?

Are you going to stick with that or admit that this isn't the most horrible thing that anyone's ever done?

 

[MisterWhiskers]

@MW

Your first post was this:



So the fact that an EMT, who had no way of saving this person, called an ambulance but didn't stand by her to comfort her, makes you want to kill yourself?

Are you going to stick with that or admit that this isn't the most horrible thing that anyone's ever done?

Since you are so smart, wouldn't you be able to guess I didn't read the article?

 

[Joel]

Who needs reading when you can just say america sux lolz.

 

[Daniel]

'Murica!

 

[disinfected]

Sometimes people just need to stick with one point to roll with, because it only gets more and more delusional from there.

Okay, so maybe you have an opinion, but when someone else disagrees, things start to come up such as...giving CPR for an asthma attack.

Bananas.

 

[Hyped]

I don't know if this is even a good analogy, but wouldn't CPR to someone having a severe asthma attack be about as helpful as force feeding someone who's choking?

 

[Naptown25rs]

I don't know if this is even a good analogy, but wouldn't CPR to someone having a severe asthma attack be about as helpful as force feeding someone who's choking?

Essentially (without giving a lengthy explanation), yes.

 

[Grayfox]

Did the lady have her inhaler on or near her?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

All I'm saying is, something is better than nothing.

Don't judge an article on its headline. This is obviously sensationalistic crap intended to make the EMT look like a pathetic human being for not doing more to help the victim.

No doubt the EMT did what she could to help the victim. But because the victim was pregnant and ultimately died, FOX News decided for character assassination because a headline that reads "Callous EMT refuses to help dying pregnant woman for selfish reasons" sells more newspapers than "EMT tries and fails to help dying pregnant woman".

 

[lbsf1]

Fox News, America's Daily Mail.

After a quick google it seems that if someone is having an athsma attack and doesn't have an inhaler doesn't seem to be much you can do without an inhaler or specialist equipment. All various websites advise you to do is to call and ambulance, keep talking to the person encouraging them to try and breath in through their nose and out through their mouth and then to try and help locate their inhaler.

So there wasn't much the EMT women could do without specialist equipment, no matter what her training was.

Feel almost sorry for the off duty EMT women as she probably did the best she could and now she has been set on by news sources who are looking for a story to sensationalize.

 

[Famine]

All I'm saying is, something is better than nothing.

No it isn't.

Unless it comes to reading, in which case reading some of the article before making idiotic sweeping statements is indeed better than reading none of it.

Your exile lasted a long time, didn't it?

 

[Snorevette]

Honestly, this is why I generally prefer to get information from multiple second-hand sources rather than a single source - the misinformation and bias in this article is so glaring that I'm tempted to print out the article and hang it in my room to simulate sunlight.

 

[Omnis]

Jo, nuk di qysh me fol Anglisht. But seriously, even if she didn't have equipment, she could do CPR to help.

You have no understanding of emergency medical care.

You do not know how CPR works or its limitations.

Kevin Spacey says "Wrong!"

For someone having an asthma attack?

If you ever happen to come across me as I lay dying, please just let me die. Thanks.

Yes

I know she called an ambulance but there must be something you can do while waiting for it. They don't exactly arrive in a minute or so (at least around here).

You're onto something here!

Here's the whole article: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...led-911-pregnant-woman-died-article-1.1381913

I don't think this lady should be charged criminally, but she shouldn't be allowed to work as an EMT ever again. Her incompetence likely lead to this lady's death. Calling 911 is not all you do as a medical professional or a person with any kind of medical training. It's the first thing you do when you encounter an unresponsive patient. However, she failed to remain with the patient, and the patient probably went into cardiac arrest and died.

You don't just call the ambulance and take off. You stay on the phone with 911-- they'll tell you what to do. In this case, you would probably administer whatever asthma medication the patient has on them at the time, and then to monitor the patient's breathing and pulse before EMS arrives. Again, 911 is supposed to be trained to remind you what to do. I wouldn't trust this lady in a dispatch position in the future. Would you?

If the patient ever loses pulse and stops breathing, you have to start CPR before they go into asystole. You'll be protected by the good samaritan law no matter what happens, but you gotta stay on the phone with 911 and tell them what's going on.

 

[Grayfox]

I don't know if she took the hippocratic oath, but if she did she failed it.

 

[dylansan]

Kevin Spacey says "Wrong!"

Yes

You're onto something here!

Here's the whole article: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/charges-dropped-emt-called-911-pregnant-woman-died-article-1.1381913

I don't think this lady should be charged criminally, but she shouldn't be allowed to work as an EMT ever again. Her incompetence likely lead to this lady's death. Calling 911 is not all you do as a medical professional or a person with any kind of medical training. It's the first thing you do when you encounter an unresponsive patient. However, she failed to remain with the patient, and the patient probably went into cardiac arrest and died.

You don't just call the ambulance and take off. You stay on the phone with 911-- they'll tell you what to do. In this case, you would probably administer whatever asthma medication the patient has on them at the time, and then to monitor the patient's breathing and pulse before EMS arrives. Again, 911 is supposed to be trained to remind you what to do. I wouldn't trust this lady in a dispatch position in the future. Would you?

If the patient ever loses pulse and stops breathing, you have to start CPR before they go into asystole. You'll be protected by the good samaritan law no matter what happens, but you gotta stay on the phone with 911 and tell them what's going on.

Definitely. The most important thing she should have done is check if she had an inhaler. I'm curious how the call went and when she hung up because, as you said, 911 should have told her what to do, so did they not tell her, or did she refuse?

 

[Naptown25rs]

Here's the whole article: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...led-911-pregnant-woman-died-article-1.1381913

I don't think this lady should be charged criminally, but she shouldn't be allowed to work as an EMT ever again. Her incompetence likely lead to this lady's death. Calling 911 is not all you do as a medical professional or a person with any kind of medical training. It's the first thing you do when you encounter an unresponsive patient. However, she failed to remain with the patient, and the patient probably went into cardiac arrest and died.

You don't just call the ambulance and take off. You stay on the phone with 911-- they'll tell you what to do. In this case, you would probably administer whatever asthma medication the patient has on them at the time, and then to monitor the patient's breathing and pulse before EMS arrives. Again, 911 is supposed to be trained to remind you what to do. I wouldn't trust this lady in a dispatch position in the future. Would you?

If the patient ever loses pulse and stops breathing, you have to start CPR before they go into asystole. You'll be protected by the good samaritan law no matter what happens, but you gotta stay on the phone with 911 and tell them what's going on.

While this lady is trained as an EMT, she works as a dispatcher... If you have ever worked in either of those capacities at all, you'd know that they are totally different worlds. Essentially, she sits behind a desk, answers a phone and talks on a radio... She likely has no real world experience functioning as an EMT therefore she probably isn't going to be any better help than the average bystander... So charge her for not holding the woman's hand if you feel the need to absolutely blame someone.

Unless this person stops breathing, there is little anyone can do for someone having an Asthma attack other than call 911 and assist with an inhaler, which correct me if I'm wrong, but I've not read anything that says there was one present at the scene. If this patient had a severe case of asthma, she would likely be prescribed some type of rescue inhaler and if she had attacks frequently, she would carry it with her at all times and already have it out and be using it at the first sign of distress.

Checking a pulse isn't going to do anything but tell you that the pulse will most likely be elevated, what's the EMT gonna do to correct that? And short of pulling an oxygen tank, a nebulizer, some corticosteroids and some IV equipment out of her 🤬 there's really nothing else that can be done either until the ambulance arrives. CPR can be initiated ONLY if the person stops breathing and becomes pulseless, but again, we don't know if that occurred prior to EMS arrival or not.

 

[Grayfox]

Definitely. The most important thing she should have done is check if she had an inhaler. I'm curious how the call went and when she hung up because, as you said, 911 should have told her what to do, so did they not tell her, or did she refuse?

Plus being a dispatcher she may know what to do already.

 

[Omnis]

Read my post again, Naptown. I'm not saying she should be charged criminally, and I already mentioned that she should have taken those steps if the lady went into cardiac arrest. In other words, you're not arguing anything that I haven't already considered in my post.

The question is whether she was DOA or if she died later. If it's the latter, then, yeah, there's nothing really to apologize for. If she croaked and went into Vfib in the restaurant, and flatlined before medics arrived, then this lady failed as a medically trained human being.

 

[Naptown25rs]

Read my post again, Naptown. I'm not saying she should be charged criminally, and I already mentioned that she should have taken those steps if the lady went into cardiac arrest. In other words, you're not arguing anything that I haven't already considered in my post.

The question is whether she was DOA or if she died later. If it's the latter, then, yeah, there's nothing really to apologize for. If she croaked and went into Vfib in the restaurant, and flatlined before medics arrived, then this lady failed as a medically trained human being.

I don't disagree with that... However, in your prior post, you label the EMT as incompetent and state that her incompetence likely lead to the death of the person having an asthma attack. I was merely trying to explain in a manner that might be understood by folks without any sort of medical training, that its not always as simple as it seems to just "help" someone.

The dispatcher does hold an EMT certification, but she works as a dispatcher... People automatically assume that just because you hold a certification in something or wear a uniform, you are automatically a competent and capable provider. Anyone can read a book, take a test and pass a class, but actually putting it to use in an emergency situation is a completely different scenario, especially if you've never had to do it before or it's been years since you've taken the initial training. I can imagine someone like this being thrown into a serious situation experiencing a lot of anxiety and hesitation about having to go help. I've seen it happen before with students and other folks that are in this line of work but aren't front line, everyday emergency responders.

If a person has never worked in a field where they are presented with emergency situations on a daily basis, it is common misconception that emergency medical providers should just be able to help anyone at any given time, despite the nature of the incident. That's not always the case... Short of a cardiac arrest (CPR), there is little that anyone can do to help someone having an asthma attack or many other medical problems without the proper tools to do the job.

I've experienced similar scenarios myself... Walk into a restaurant after shift (still in uniform) to have breakfast and I'm alerted to a person having chest pain. I call for an ambulance and go talk to the person to get a brief history while waiting for EMS to arrive. I got grief from more than one person because I wasn't "doing" anything to help this person having chest pain. I didn't have a blood pressure cuff/stethoscope, heart monitor, oxygen, aspirin or nitro pills with me, not that I can just go around giving that stuff to people off duty anyway, so what more am I supposed to do?

Point I'm trying to make is this: We don't have exact details about how long the asthma attack had been going on, if the patient had an inhaler or not, if the patient was conscious, breathing, had a pulse or not prior 911 being called and EMS arriving, so labeling the EMT as incompetent because she didn't act upon any of the unknown variables I just mentioned is wrong.

 

[Omnis]

People automatically assume that just because you hold a certification in something or wear a uniform, you are automatically a competent and capable provider.

Isn't that the point of being certified? What use is a certification if it's awarded to an incompetent person?

You're right, though. We are taking too many thing for granted when we don't know exactly what happened. But, at least I think people will have learned something now after reading this thread. 👍

 

[Naptown25rs]

Isn't that the point of being certified? What use is a certification if it's awarded to an incompetent person?

Likely a requirement of the job, which is a flaw in the system... Never understood why its required if it'll never be applied in the field? As with any other knowledge/skills; if you don't use it, you lose it.

 

[Omnis]

Certifying body failure.

 

[Pupik]

Isn't that the point of being certified? What use is a certification if it's awarded to an incompetent person?

I don't understand, don't we do it every two years, usually in early November?

 

[Lock2Lock]

So what she called an ambulance. Help her with what you got, and quick!

So let me get this straight, she is wrong for doing what she could by calling a ambulance?

she could do CPR to help.

Have you ever taken a CPR class? If yes, do you know the rules of when to use CPR?

Even if you know how to do CPR, if you for some reason you are not confident enough to do it at that moment, you don't do it. For whatever reason that person felt the best thing to do was to call for help. Sometimes it is better to call for help before acting in the spring of the moment. You can do more harm than good.

I don't know if you have ever been in a situation where someone is having a severe medical problem, but sometimes you can't do anything. Regardless if she really did stand there or not (which she didn't do), sometimes you can't do anything.

Comfort her, at least do something. When you see someone dying, do you just stare at them? Lets be honest.

Ok for example.
A few months ago I was at a Jack's restaurant ok.

Standing in line to order my food, I hear a lady screaming behind me. I turn around and this older gentleman behind me is falling straight backwards after falling on the counter. I try to catch him so he didn't hit his head on the floor, which I managed to do.

Now the guy's head is turning purple as he is laying on the floor, as a few people are calling 911. I have no idea what the person is going through. I have no idea if he is having a heart attack, seizure, or a asthma attack. So in other words I have no clue how to help him, all I can do is stand there keep a eye on him and wait for help to come.

Turned out to be he was a diabetic and his sugar bottomed out causing him to have some kind of seizure. Nothing else I or anyone could have done. The paramedics didn't even take the guy to the hospital because he refused, he drove home.

Basically, if you have no knowledge on what you are doing, don't act.

 

[Slash]

Kevin Spacey says "Wrong!"



Yes



You're onto something here!

Here's the whole article: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...led-911-pregnant-woman-died-article-1.1381913

I don't think this lady should be charged criminally, but she shouldn't be allowed to work as an EMT ever again. Her incompetence likely lead to this lady's death. Calling 911 is not all you do as a medical professional or a person with any kind of medical training. It's the first thing you do when you encounter an unresponsive patient. However, she failed to remain with the patient, and the patient probably went into cardiac arrest and died.

You don't just call the ambulance and take off. You stay on the phone with 911-- they'll tell you what to do. In this case, you would probably administer whatever asthma medication the patient has on them at the time, and then to monitor the patient's breathing and pulse before EMS arrives. Again, 911 is supposed to be trained to remind you what to do. I wouldn't trust this lady in a dispatch position in the future. Would you?

If the patient ever loses pulse and stops breathing, you have to start CPR before they go into asystole. You'll be protected by the good samaritan law no matter what happens, but you gotta stay on the phone with 911 and tell them what's going on.

This is basically what I was getting at. 👍

 

[Omnis]

I don't understand, don't we do it every two years, usually in early November?

 

[kk20]

the misinformation and bias in this article is so glaring that I'm tempted to print out the article and hang it in my room to simulate sunlight.

Comment of the day. I would shake your hand if I could.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

This is basically what I was getting at. 👍

No it wasn't, you took the article at face value and reacted. Now you've waited for someone to post something very roughly along the lines of what you'd posted, someone has done just that, and you've jumped aboard. Phew, that was close, eh?

What is with people not admitting to their mistakes? It is blatantly obvious, when you say one thing but insist that you meant something else entirely, that you are simply trying to avoid admitting that you might be wrong.

 

[Slash]

No it wasn't, you took the article at face value and reacted. Now you've waited for someone to post something very roughly along the lines of what you'd posted, someone has done just that, and you've jumped aboard. Phew, that was close, eh?

What is with people not admitting to their mistakes? It is blatantly obvious, when you say one thing but insist that you meant something else entirely, that you are simply trying to avoid admitting that you might be wrong.

I'll apologize for the fact I couldn't exactly word what I was getting at right, Omnis said it better than I can

I usually admit mistakes. I never made a mistake here lol

 

[MisterWhiskers]

...you took the article at face value

That's what I did, too.