End of an Era: Shuttle program coming to a close

  • Thread starter CodeRedR51
  • 156 comments
  • 9,580 views

CodeRedR51

Premium
55,319
United States
United States
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110224/ap_on_sc/us_space_shuttle

Space Shuttle Discovery launched off it's pad for the last time today. It's delivering supplies to the Space Station and returning in 11 days. Shuttle Atlantis and Endeavour both have remaining missions this year and then they will be retired to "let private companies make trips to orbit".

On one hand I am glad to see we are moving on to something better, but I don't know about this whole "private companies" thing. I haven't seen anything where one of these companies has stepped forward with a plan on how they are going to achieve orbit, and in what time frame. Meanwhile, we're stuck going back to 60's technology and splashing down in the ocean again.

Thoughts?

13f94e25c23bf7a9420b57ee6b92cb05.jpeg
 
To put in perspective, my dad was asked to join the development of the Space Shuttle program back in 1965. The answer to President Kennedy's 'man on the moon' request.
 
I thought there were still a couple of missions scheduled after this one, or have they been canceled?

Atlantis and Endeavour both have missions yet to fly. Today's launch was the last for Shuttle Discovery, which will be sent to the Smithsonian after it returns.

Here's a fact I learned today while watching the launch video, a shuttle launch burns enough fuel to drain a standard size swimming pool in 25 seconds. :dopey:
 
Endeavour is tasked with STS-135 - the unofficial final mission - but that mission hasn't officially been funded yet, although NASA has said STS-135 will go ahead regardless of the funding situation. As it stands, Atlantis and STS-134 is the "official" final Shuttle mission. STS-134 is slated to launch exactly 30 years and one week after Columbia's maiden flight on April 12 1981 :)

Whichever mission ends up being the final one, it'll be sad to see the Shuttles go. Thirty years in service, over one hundred flights (with two, tragically, ending in disaster), three and a half years total time spent in orbit and over 20,000 orbits of the Earth made - and they're still the most reliable (and to date the only reusable spacecraft) manned spacecraft. As mentioned in the first post, it really does seem like NASA in particular is taking a step backwards when the Shuttles are officially decommissioned, especially now that the Constellation Program has been canned.

I've always had a great interest in spaceflight, and I have somewhat of a soft spot for the Shuttle program if you couldn't already tell :lol:
 
Well... we could possibly be renting space on cheaper Russian launches.

The Shuttle program was a great idea for its time... but at this point, it's too expensive and complex... the idea is that private companies, not burdened by the inertia, labrynthine quintriple-checks, redundancies and top-heavy bureaucracy of a big government organization can get it done faster and cheaper.
 
This sucks big time. I love those shuttles and in particular Discovery. It has travelled more miles than any other shuttle and was chosen for return to flight after the Challenger and Columbia disasters. I really have a soft spot for this amazing machine and would have prefered it if it was to make the final flight.
 
...the idea is that private companies, not burdened by the inertia, labrynthine quintriple-checks, redundancies and top-heavy bureaucracy of a big government organization can get it done faster and cheaper.

So if it's cheaper and can be done faster, where are these companies? I haven't seen anything in the news or posted on any blogs since they announced the shuttle program was ending. Or is it because the mainstream media doesn't care about space flight anymore? I only discovered yesterday's launch because it was on the Yahoo homepage, and only because it's a special occasion.

This sucks big time. I love those shuttles and in particular Discovery. It has travelled more miles than any other shuttle and was chosen for return to flight after the Challenger and Columbia disasters. I really have a soft spot for this amazing machine and would have prefered it if it was to make the final flight.

I agree, Discovery should have made the final flight. Would have been more fitting. 👍
 
I don't know why most of the media is writing like this was the last shuttle flight! It isnt an end of an era till Atlantis and Endeavour fly.

The space shuttle didnt really achieve what it set out to do from a cost cutting perspective, hopefully companies like Space X and the other private ones will take on the task. They were cool and iconic machines though, reminds me of the 80's!

Its a pity that space really has become a backseat priority with Western governments the way things are at the moment. The next manned missions to places will likely be from India and China etc. I think China is sending some men to the moon.

I hope someone walks on something new in my lifetime! :scared:

Robin.
 
It might not be the end of an era just yet but Discovery is the longest serving Shuttle still in the fleet and flying its last mission... very sad for that but pleased as punch that she launched Hubble into orbit and gave us such a fantastic view of the universe around us...
 
:nervous:



12:40 That is quite a hit. No reports of any problem on the NASA website. Hope the tiles are intact. :nervous:

*edit*

Apparently they did notice it but as it was in the upper atmosphere, it's not too much of an issue. A full check of the heat shield this morning will confirm.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I also saw that debris strike when I watched the video earlier, it was already very high up in the atmosphere but I hope Nasa check the area thoroughly before re-entry. :nervous:
 
They mentioned it in the Yahoo article and NASA said it wasn't anything to be worried about. Plus, they have a procedure now to check the Shuttle for damage before it docks with the Space Station.
 
For those interested, todays Shuttle launch can be viewed in streaming HD video on NASA's website HERE.

Edit: Launch has been canceled because of a problem with some heaters that are not working. The earliest they will be able to launch again is Sunday, although that is not set in stone yet.
 
Last edited:
With the final shuttle launch ever coming up in the next few days, I thought i'd bump this back up with a question:

Is anyone who lives in the general area of Florida planning to head on over to see the shuttle launch?
 
I hope NASA will have the new rockets ready to go in a few years.
Otherwise we have to rely on the Chinese or Russians to go to Mars. :lol:
 
Meanwhile, we're stuck going back to 60's technology and splashing down in the ocean again.

Thoughts?

The 60s solution was better. The 60s pods didn't burn up on re-entry because some foam hit an exposed heat shield. The 60s pods couldn't burn up on re-entry because of a failed thruster or bad guidance computer, they didn't need a guidance computer. The 60s pods didn't cost an arm and a leg to recondition and reuse because they were meant to be disposable (as it should be with something that goes through re-entry). Shuttle should have been yanked a long time ago but was heavily politicized. When you think about it's, it's absolutely insane to strap a big airplane on the side of a rocket and launch it into space. It's an enormous waste of propellant for every single mission that goes up. One shuttle launch could send up gargantuan telescopes or deep space probes, but instead they send up hardware that we pretend is cheaper because it's re-usable. Ridiculous.

Shuttle was a kind of temporary space station that we had to re-launch every time we wanted it up. The cheaper, far superior solution is to have a space station in orbit that we can simply send people and supplies to with much smaller vehicles.

Shuttle, in short, should have been discontinued a long time ago. It hasn't made any sense to anyone in a very long time. I'm very happy to see it go, and I'd feel better about it having ever existed in the first place if it was mothballed 20 years ago.
 
I'm not going to respond to that post other than to say, if you're not a true fan of the space program, you'll never "get it".

I, for one, am sad to see it go.
 
Would much rather see more probe missions myself. There's still so much we don't know about the Gas Giants and their moons. Still waiting for the ice-drilling Europa mission.
 
I'm gonna +1 Danoff on this one.

The shuttle program has not made much sense from a "risk/reward" standpoint for along time. If ever. But NASA being a government program got married to it and as a result the program has been bloat and money hemorrhage for decades now. Had cooler and more fiscally responsible heads prevailed, Challenger would have been the program's final mission.
 
I'm with you on this one, 1600. In an era where the norm was to fire things into space using a 100m tall multi-stage, single-use rocket, the United States/NASA had the balls to try something radically different to any spacecraft that had come before - the idea of a reusable spacecraft was something quite extraordinary at the time.

The Shuttle program was initiated in 1972, with the first Shuttle mission - STS-1, onboard Columbia - lifting off in 1981. A further 134 missions and thirty years later, the program comes to a close with STS-135 - if the whole project was as useless, pointless and expensive as you make it out to be, Danoff, NASA would've canned the whole thing after a year or two. But 30 years down the track?

Going from a system that ultimately proved to be very reliable, with only one failed launch (Challenger, 1986) and one failed re-entry (Columbia, 2003) in 134 missions, to a significantly more agricultural two-stage rocket that first launched in 1966 seems to me like NASA's going back in time 40 years. Yes, Soyuz launchers are (relatively) cheap by space flight standards and one of the more reliable rocket families, but space flight should be the forefront of innovation. It is in my opinion the greatest technological achievement of mankind, and as such as the years roll by we should be seeing more and more advanced methods for shooting people up into space. Instead, what do we get? 1960s Russian rockets and the Delta IV (maiden flight 2003, but its predecessors also date back to 1960 and have only launched satellites thus far)...

I'm not going to lie, I'll be watching the stream of the launch with a tear in my eye. Rhyme not intentional.
 
I'm with you on this one, 1600. In an era where the norm was to fire things into space using a 100m tall multi-stage, single-use rocket, the United States/NASA had the balls to try something radically different to any spacecraft that had come before - the idea of a reusable spacecraft was something quite extraordinary at the time.

The Shuttle program was initiated in 1972, with the first Shuttle mission - STS-1, onboard Columbia - lifting off in 1981. A further 134 missions and thirty years later, the program comes to a close with STS-135 - if the whole project was as useless, pointless and expensive as you make it out to be, Danoff, NASA would've canned the whole thing after a year or two. But 30 years down the track?

Going from a system that ultimately proved to be very reliable, with only one failed launch (Challenger, 1986) and one failed re-entry (Columbia, 2003) in 134 missions, to a significantly more agricultural two-stage rocket that first launched in 1966 seems to me like NASA's going back in time 40 years. Yes, Soyuz launchers are (relatively) cheap by space flight standards and one of the more reliable rocket families, but space flight should be the forefront of innovation. It is in my opinion the greatest technological achievement of mankind, and as such as the years roll by we should be seeing more and more advanced methods for shooting people up into space. Instead, what do we get? 1960s Russian rockets and the Delta IV (maiden flight 2003, but its predecessors also date back to 1960 and have only launched satellites thus far)...

I'm not going to lie, I'll be watching the stream of the launch with a tear in my eye. Rhyme not intentional.

You give the US government and NASA a little too much credit when you say that if it didn't make sense it would have been canned long ago. Shuttle is the single heaviest launch vehicle we have today. Saturn V (60s technology) was bigger and better. Going back to the 60s would be an improvement in technology, it would take us closer to your goal. The Saturn V was the pinnacle of the rocketry.

Think about what gets accomplished on a shuttle mission. A few low earth orbit experiments if we're lucky? Maybe take some supplies to the space station? Do you know how much real science we can do with something as expensive as a shuttle launch?

Each shuttle launch costs approximately $0.5 billion dollars. The Cassini-Huygens is one of the most expensive missions NASA has, and it only costs 6 times that. Cassini launched in 1997, has been discovering incredible things at saturn since 2004. Seven years of orbit at saturn, the discovery of sub-surface oceans on enceladus, piercing the shroud of Titan to study it's methane lakes and putting a friggin lander on the surface, the uncovering the bizarre and captivating two-tone Iapetus, and understanding how it got that way... Seven years of discovery and understanding of the outer portion of our solar system for the price of six shuttle launches.

The Dawn mission is an ion propulsion mission powered by massive solar arrays. The spacecraft uses the electricity from the sun to ionize and focus xenon flow to propel the spacecraft two two enormous asteroids in the main belt - Vesta and Ceres. Dawn will orbit both asteroids to better understand the formation of our solar system. Dawn launched in 2007 and will wrap up its prime mission in 2015. That entire mission is funded by the cost of a single shuttle launch. NASA will catalog two of the largest non-planetary bodies in our solar system and learn a great deal about the planetary formation for the cost of a single shuttle mission.

The Hubble space telescope originally cost only a single shuttle launch to build... and yet we launched the shuttle for the sole purpose of fixing it on orbit.... We spent half a billion dollars to repair a $400 billionmillion dollar telescope. And then.... we did it again! Another half billion dollars to service a $400 billionmillion dollar telescope. We launched Hubble inside the shuttle.... that's like launching two hubbles. So... just to keep track, we launched a shuttle to launch hubble (ridiculous), we launched another shuttle to repair hubble (ridiculous), and we did it a third time. We spent an extra 1.5 billion so that we could do it with shuttle.

Half a billion dollars is a ridiculous sum for what we do with our shuttle launches. It could fund real space exploration instead of messing around with weightlessness, so that we can capture images like this one:

enceladus-geysers.jpg


...which have real scientific value. Instead of conducting experiments that might be do-able on board a KC-135.

....and for those of you who think it's impressive that the shuttle is re-usable? Consider just how much of it gets rebuilt and reconditioned after each use. The term "re-usable" is used very loosely here. We spend a fortune rebuilding them after each use.
 
Last edited:
The Hubble space telescope originally cost only a single shuttle launch to build... and yet we launched the shuttle for the sole purpose of fixing it on orbit.... We spent half a billion dollars to repair a $400 billion dollar telescope. And then.... we did it again! Another half billion dollars to service a $400 billion dollar telescope. We launched Hubble inside the shuttle.... that's like launching two hubbles. So... just to keep track, we launched a shuttle to launch hubble (ridiculous), we launched another shuttle to repair hubble (ridiculous), and we did it a third time. We spent an extra 1.5 billion so that we could do it with shuttle.

^^ That's one of the things that is so great about the Shuttle, the fact that we could take a single vehicle out into space and do things like repair Hubble. You list positives for other programs (which are un-manned, by the way) but the Shuttle program has just as many, if not more positives about it as well.

What really is the point, besides the money spent, by pointing out probe missions when they are un-manned? We're talking space travel here where humans are along for the ride. Where WE do the work. Yes, I do agree that it could have been used less and for more important missions, but at the time we saw it as the future. I still do, but nobody has stepped up to the plate and made something better. So now we're stuck going back to 60's technology.

Sure, it works, but it's not the direction we should be going.
 
Back