Engines sounds are actually recorded!

M

Marundanation

6
Australia
NSW
Marundanation
Hello,

I just wanted to say that people seems to bash on Gran Turismo's engine sounds and that it sounded like heavy computer-generated notes. But that is only because the default sound settings is set to "Living Room" which decompresses dynamic sound range which is why many cars sounded like vacuum cleaners. If you set the audio to "Large Theatre" - It is the real sound that you might hear from those trailers!

Here is a very great example to support this:


As you can see, the sounds are truly great and almost as real. Most of the GT5 vs Forza sound comparisons on the internet (particularly Youtube) uses the default "Living Room" which is not a fair comparison. Also you DO NOT need a decent sound system, I use a cheap $30 SONY headset and it sounded what I expect from that video above.

From this video below, around 4:15 the sound from the actual car is recorded. Therefore it is not a vacuum cleaner that most people think it is:



Please try out "Large Theatre" and report your findings here. Be warned, at first the music at main menu gets quiet, but when you start a race the volume will pick up and might tear your ears so lower it down to a suitable volume before attempting.

Pretty much the sound frequency range drastically increases, bass increased and sound quality improved. It is the true sound from the Real Driving Simulator.

Lastly please do spread the word out!

EDIT:
PS: I DO NOT own the video!
 
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What your video's prove is that there is too much high frequency "whoosh" that just isn't there on the real ones. I can hear it on your video in all of the adjusted versions. Even on my 7.1 sound system when playing the game in large theatre mode. I shut my eyes and identified all GT5 footage because of that whoosh.

Some of the sounds in GT5 are great but there is a definite problem with the balance of the audio particularly in cockpit and bumper cam. Maybe it's the over dominance of the gear whine but it's too much. The exhaust note should be louder in many in car views.

Another problem is the whoosh as cars go past the camera in replay mode - it's too strong at the expense of the car. Also the sound gets much quieter far too quickly based on the distance of the car from the camera when in reality you can still hear cars very loud at a race venue. As they go past you, there is certainly not a whooshing wind sound that we get in replays. The doppler effect is plain wrong.

I love GT5 and appreciate your efforts. Using Large Theatre and a decent sound system does help and I can still get some good results on headphones too BUT there are definite improvements to be made for GT6.
 
The main problem with the engine sounds in GT5 are that they're "raw", as in not processed. Think about it; a sound engineer doesn't just record a drum kit, guitar, bass & vocal & put it out as a finished recording, the sound needs to be processed to make it sound right to our ears. It's the same with the sounds in GT5. They have always recorded them straight from cars, but the problem is they don't do a very good job of processing them to sound right afterwards. Think about it; the sound recorded from a mic up the exhaust, or in the engine bay, isn't what you'll hear in car when racing & with the engine under load!

Also, they think too much about engine sound & not about car sounds. Cars generate many sounds as they interact with their environment, I'd like to see some of them added too, like gravel in the wheel arches when off track for instance, & better wind noise. Better sound design is something they're working on for GT6, & I do hope they get it right.

However, I will try your tip out in the meantime. Cheers. 👍
 
JohnScoonsBeard
What your video's prove is that there is too much high frequency "whoosh" that just isn't there on the real ones. I can hear it on your video in all of the adjusted versions. Even on my 7.1 sound system when playing the game in large theatre mode. I shut my eyes and identified all GT5 footage because of that whoosh.

Some of the sounds in GT5 are great but there is a definite problem with the balance of the audio particularly in cockpit and bumper cam. Maybe it's the over dominance of the gear whine but it's too much. The exhaust note should be louder in many in car views.

Another problem is the whoosh as cars go past the camera in replay mode - it's too strong at the expense of the car. Also the sound gets much quieter far too quickly based on the distance of the car from the camera when in reality you can still hear cars very loud at a race venue. As they go past you, there is certainly not a whooshing wind sound that we get in replays. The doppler effect is plain wrong.

I love GT5 and appreciate your efforts. Using Large Theatre and a decent sound system does help and I can still get some good results on headphones too BUT there are definite improvements to be made for GT6.
Click to expand...

Thanks, All I just wanted to people to know that GT5 does have different audio settings, though I am really annoyed that the least "attractive" option is default and people seemed to believe that all the work PD has done on recording the sounds are just gimmicks, but in fact it was just hidden away behind menus. And now GT5 is represented to have the worst sound of all racing games which is not true at all.
 
VBR
The main problem with the engine sounds in GT5 are that they're "raw", as in not processed. Think about it; a sound engineer doesn't just record a drum kit, guitar, bass & vocal & put it out as a finished recording, the sound needs to be processed to make it sound right to our ears. It's the same with the sounds in GT5. They have always recorded them straight from cars, but the problem is they don't do a very good job of processing them to sound right afterwards. Think about it; the sound recorded from a mic up the exhaust, or in the engine bay, isn't what you'll hear in car when racing & with the engine under load!

Also, they think too much about engine sound & not about car sounds. Cars generate many sounds as they interact with their environment, I'd like to see some of them added too, like gravel in the wheel arches when off track for instance, & better wind noise. Better sound design is something they're working on for GT6, & I do hope they get it right.

However, I will try your tip out in the meantime. Cheers. 👍
Click to expand...

I agree with you, GT5 mostly record their audio from the engine (Kaz said it at E3, it is one of the articles Jordon wrote), Forza records their mostly from the exhaust and people seems to like the "roaring" of the car better. However I am concerned about the misrepresentation of GT5 over the internet, alot of videos posted up comparing GT5, Forza and Shift's audio and it is always in "Living Room" default. Usually it always ends up as Gran Turismo having "vacuum cars" which is false.
 
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Small theatre also gives better results to living room.

It is obvious to some but it's also important to set things appropiately in the sound output settings on the playstation xmb menu before entering GT5 (more so than any other game or for BluRay films)

If I use my turtle beach surround sound headphones fed by the optical out of the ps3 I only use Dolby 5.1 output as an option as I get problems if more than 1 option is selected.

If the family are out and I play with sound cranked up through my AV amp and 5.1 speakers then all high quality output formats (dolby/Dts/master etc) can be selected. The trick to real improvement is boosting the output of the rear speakers in the amp menu. I boost those to almost double the volume I'd normally use for playing blurays. That boosts the exhaust rumble. Certainly helps improve things although as mentioned earlier things still need improving.

Crossover (amp setting) between the sub woofer and satellite speakers I have at around 80Hz (from memory) but that's just my setup.

Never select multi sound output (both optical and hdmi) as it compromises the available number of channels.
 
Marundanation
I agree with you, GT5 mostly record their audio from the engine (Kaz said it at E3, it is one of the articles Jordon wrote), Forza records their mostly from the exhaust and people seems to like the "roaring" of the car better. However I am concerned about the misrepresentation of GT5 over the internet, alot of videos posted up comparing GT5, Forza and Shift's audio and it is always in "Living Room" default. Usually it always ends up as Gran Turismo having "vacuum cars" which is false.
Click to expand...

Stop it. I have had my setting on large theater since GT5 came out and it doesn't fix anything.

GT5 sounds are crap period. I almost shed a tear when i find something that sounds ok.

Forza sounds are way overdone sometimes to a comical level but it's still better then GT5.

Overdone sound > Not enough or wrong
 
I tried you suggestion on my 2.1 system, & have to say that the sound was worse on Large Theatre. That setting had much less bass, & GT5 doesn't have enough bass to start off with. Also, it didn't change the nature of the sound itself, still vacuum cleaners, it just changed the frequency response. Put it back to Living Room & sounded better imo.
 
Using a TurtleBeach PX21 setting my audio to "Large Theatre" did anything but improve the engine notes, even with my bass set to maximum to give it the best possible chance of working and using stock cars that I've known to have rather good samples.

Setting it to "Small Theatre" yielded better results, however it highlighted an awkward rumbling noise which sounds like it's trying to be the tyres moving across the tarmac but it just sounds wrong. Again doing nothing to improve the engine notes as the wheezy noise at high RPM not only remains intact - but is highlighted.

After trying these two modes - I actually have more respect for the "Living Room" setting, it sounds the most realistic of the three on my set up.
I don't know what kind of magic 30 dollar headset you have but on my 150 dollar ones the Theatre options just make the audio sound even further from reality.
 
VBR
I tried you suggestion on my 2.1 system, & have to say that the sound was worse on Large Theatre. That setting had much less bass, & GT5 doesn't have enough bass to start off with. Also, it didn't change the nature of the sound itself, still vacuum cleaners, it just changed the frequency response. Put it back to Living Room & sounded better imo.
Click to expand...

That's strange, I have mine on large theatre, 5.1 DTS, flat settings - no eq. It sounds great, cranked my AV to -30 or -20 dB and the chase cam gives even stock Mustang GT a nice exhaust rumble :D It seems with large theatre, the music and menu sounds are muffled, I need to have above -30 dB on my AV.
 
It doesnt change anything, how it could? The sound just gets fitted to the sound system. All the crappy samples and bad mixing doesn't change at all. It just gets enhanced.
They need completely new samples. Thats what it's about.
 
This is nothing new... I got mine set to small theatre with my appropriate stereo sound system since over a year now, I use the equalizer with most bass possible on it and I still say the sounds suck and there are many things wrong with the sounds.


Take the Gallardo you used as an example, yeah it has a pretty decent sample (when the exhaust is stock) but why did Polyphony use the exact same sound sample on the other modern Lamborghinis too? The Aventador and both Murciélago models have the sound of the Gallardo, their engines are V12 6.5 litres while the Gallardo has a V10 5.2 litre engine, it's obvious they have different sounds in real life and the cars are not that rare that PD could use the 'we had no opportunity to record the car' excuse. When you install the racing exhaust on the Murciélago or the Aventador they get the exact same sample that the LFA and R8 V10 racing exhaust have, similar to the Enzo's semi racing exhaust, to name just a few examples of the same sample being reused. The sample originates from the Zonda R and it's actually pretty close to that car's real sound up to mid RPM.

PD's lazyness and disrespect towards car manufacturers is ridiculous. I think it's a shame car manufacturers don't seem to be aware of this issue as I'm sure if PD put a Zonda or Ferrari brand on an Audi, a Lexus or the Lambos they would have quite a big problem with that.


So there's certainly a lot more wrong with GT5's and probably GT6's sound, this settings issue is just one example. Also, talking about settings, why can't we turn down the stupid background noises? The stupid track viewers' cheering is annoying as hell and I think the tyre, wind and transmission whine noises are way too loud, especially in hood roof view. 50 updates for GT5 and they still didn't have the idea to let us alter something this simple? It's easy to program as well, basically the background sample volume just needs to be turned lower.
 
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KiroKai
This is nothing new... I got mine set to small theatre with my appropriate stereo sound system since over a year now, I use the equalizer with most bass possible on it and I still say the sounds suck and there are many things wrong with the sounds.

Take the Gallardo you used as an example, yeah it has a pretty decent sample (when the exhaust is stock) but why did Polyphony use the exact same sound sample on the other modern Lamborghinis too? The Aventador and both Murciélago models have the sound of the Gallardo, their engines are V12 6.5 litres while the Gallardo has a V10 5.2 litre engine, it's obvious they have different sounds in real life and the cars are not that rare that PD could use the 'we had no opportunity to record the car' excuse. When you install the racing exhaust on the Murciélago or the Aventador they get the exact same sample that the LFA and R8 V10 racing exhaust have, similar to the Enzo's semi racing exhaust, to name just a few examples of the same sample being reused. The sample originates from the Zonda R and it's actually pretty close to that car's real sound up to mid RPM.

PD's lazyness and disrespect towards car manufacturers is ridiculous. I think it's a shame car manufacturers don't seem to be aware of this issue as I'm sure if PD put a Zonda or Ferrari brand on an Audi, a Lexus or the Lambos they would have quite a big problem with that.

So there's certainly a lot more wrong with GT5's and probably GT6's sound, this settings issue is just one example. Also, talking about settings, why can't we turn down the stupid background noises? The stupid track viewers' cheering is annoying as hell and I think the tyre, wind and transmission whine noises are way too loud, especially in hood roof view. 50 updates for GT5 and they still didn't have the idea to let us alter something this simple? It's easy to program as well, basically the background sample volume just needs to be turned lower.
Click to expand...

I know, I would like to see Ferrari's reaction to GT5 gameplay with one of their cars, especially the 330 P4 sounding like a washing machine or the Enzo sounding like a failed 458. They would probably deny their license for future GT titles.

How about the C9 (in my opinion the most glorious sounding V8 ever) sounding literally like a vaccum cleaner in GT5.

The lack of respect on PD's part is insane, it's also pretty obvious when you look at the cars they decided to make Premium.
 
Marundanation
Please try out "Large Theatre" and report your findings here. Be warned, at first the music at main menu gets quiet, but when you start a race the volume will pick up and might tear your ears so lower it down to a suitable volume before attempting.
Click to expand...

I had on small theatre and tried on large, there was difference what feels like pushing "loudness"-button OFF from ON position.
Sounds came clearer after that, had to change menu sounds/music to 100 from 60-70 values and everything is better. All Sounds now on 100 and it's good on it.
I'm using Sharkoon's X-tatic Digital 5.1 headset.

On Large Theatre balance between different type of sounds is now better.
 
VBR
I tried you suggestion on my 2.1 system, & have to say that the sound was worse on Large Theatre. That setting had much less bass, & GT5 doesn't have enough bass to start off with. Also, it didn't change the nature of the sound itself, still vacuum cleaners, it just changed the frequency response. Put it back to Living Room & sounded better imo.
Click to expand...
:scared::crazy:
UrieHusky
Using a TurtleBeach PX21 setting my audio to "Large Theatre" did anything but improve the engine notes, even with my bass set to maximum to give it the best possible chance of working and using stock cars that I've known to have rather good samples.

Setting it to "Small Theatre" yielded better results, however it highlighted an awkward rumbling noise which sounds like it's trying to be the tyres moving across the tarmac but it just sounds wrong. Again doing nothing to improve the engine notes as the wheezy noise at high RPM not only remains intact - but is highlighted.

After trying these two modes - I actually have more respect for the "Living Room" setting, it sounds the most realistic of the three on my set up.
I don't know what kind of magic 30 dollar headset you have but on my 150 dollar ones the Theatre options just make the audio sound even further from reality.
Click to expand...
:ill:

OdeFinn
I had on small theatre and tried on large, there was difference what feels like pushing "loudness"-button OFF from ON position.
Sounds came clearer after that, had to change menu sounds/music to 100 from 60-70 values and everything is better. All Sounds now on 100 and it's good on it.
I'm using Sharkoon's X-tatic Digital 5.1 headset.

On Large Theatre balance between different type of sounds is now better.
Click to expand...
Did you try without headphones or is this primarily for using with headphones?


Edit -
I've just tried it with a 4 speaker stereo setup. The PS3's Audio settings, I have only checked the "Dolby TrueHD" selection with the other two default settings obviously checked. In GT5, I listen to music so I have to have the Personal BGM level set to its highest at 200 with the Race BGM at around 110 (but it's adjustable during gameplay so that's convenient) and the Sound Effects level is at around 90 and conveniently adjustable during gameplay.
I think I'll be keeping the "Large Theater" selected. I only did a 20 minute "test", so I'm not sure it's my preference yet (coming from using the "Small Theater" selection ever since I can remember), but I do notice a good difference. I wouldn't know how to pinpoint and explain the difference, only that it IS a good difference from the other selections.

I can see why some people would go back to the "Small Theater" selection, but the "Living Room" one? It gives me the shivers :D. I can understand it if you're only using the TV's speakers, but...
 
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Small and Large, both destroy the dynamic range of the replays and both add more treble than bass. If you are not using a proper set up, using any of those will only make the sound even worse than it already is. Use Living room for better overall results (not that it matters with such a poor job on PD's part) but nothing will make GT sound good, there's no magical sound setup that makes it sound good, no equalizer will fix it.

The only way is to dich the current samples and restart from scratch.
 
PepeMickey
Small and Large, both destroy the dynamic range of the replays and both add more treble than bass. If you are not using a proper set up, using any of those will only make the sound even worse than it already is. Use Living room for better overall results (not that it matters with such a poor job on PD's part) but nothing will make GT sound good, there's no magical sound setup that makes it sound good, no equalizer will fix it.
Click to expand...

No to all, I have been using large, it does not add treble - it only change the sound mixing levels and dynamic range, I don't use eq - don't have one. My AV - Harman Kardon 5.1 with Mordaunt Short speakers + SUB - volume at least -30dB to -20dB when I want more sound pressure filling the room. Large is great with chase cam :)
 
I've done many comparisons between IRL and GT5 and GT5 is nothing similar.
 
Sounds are recorded but then poorly synthisized by the game. Some cars do sound quite good, but even the best sounding samples are still missing a lot of information/detail in them.

I personally have my PS3's audio plugged into my PC, where I then use software to tinker with the sound, it makes GT5 sound much, much better as you can imitate some of the rougher more aggressive noises a car produces with out inserting any distortion, but we shouldn't have to resort to this.

Like other's have said, I find that large theatre is actually worse than the living room setting, and I have an almighty, audiophile grade sound system. Pc race sims on this system are just wonderful, GT5 is not without making adjustments via external software.
 
UrieHusky
Using a TurtleBeach PX21 setting my audio to "Large Theatre" did anything but improve the engine notes, even with my bass set to maximum to give it the best possible chance of working and using stock cars that I've known to have rather good samples.

Setting it to "Small Theatre" yielded better results, however it highlighted an awkward rumbling noise which sounds like it's trying to be the tyres moving across the tarmac but it just sounds wrong. Again doing nothing to improve the engine notes as the wheezy noise at high RPM not only remains intact - but is highlighted.

After trying these two modes - I actually have more respect for the "Living Room" setting, it sounds the most realistic of the three on my set up.
I don't know what kind of magic 30 dollar headset you have but on my 150 dollar ones the Theatre options just make the audio sound even further from reality.
Click to expand...

The sound of Living Room compared to Large Theatre was the reason I wrote this in the first place. I am an audiophile and to me Living Room sounded so compressed that I barely can tell the difference between sound sources. My headphone is a SONY MDR-ZX100 which is desgined for comfort, not sound quality. I guess these options are mostly depended on your setup/headphones, but I'll take Large Theatre over Living Room anyday.
 
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I like large theatre as it gives better dynamic range when in chase cam + hood cam, engine - exhaust are loud, when in cockpit the rumble strip gets pretty loud and engine sound is okay - to get best result - experience the full dynamic range and have meaty engine/exhaust sound - crank the volume to at least -20dB ( DTS 5.1 - AVR Harman Kardon ). I often watch the replay with large theatre and high volume -15dB, and boy, when the car pass over the camera at high speed - I love it.

Large won't do good on tv speaker or headphone , but with proper surround + sub and high dB, even when the car is in idle, you'll feel the engine rumble :)
 
Marundanation
Also what do you guys think of the first video? In some ways cars do sound like IRL but like many of you said most are poorly synthisized.
Click to expand...

They're not even close, what you see on Youtube is different from what you hear in real life, comparing the engine sounds in GT5 with YT clips is the worst and most unrealistic thing you can do.

Why is thread still open? It's very clear and it's a known fact that GT sounds are crap no matter what you use, stop trying to excuse PD's bad decisions and lazyness, we should be telling them what to do instead of trying to cope with their crap and finding ways to make it a little less crappy.
 
Add to the fact that the sounds didn't really change from the 1st to the 5th.
If anything, 3 sounds the best. (It also looks the best but that's a different discussion.)



Forza did it better on their first try as well, and they are not nearly as big as PD and Sony.

And I agree about IRL cars not sounding like they do in videos.

You hear a 458 in a video and you think, "Yeah, that sounds nice.".
You hear one in real life at half throttle and it's one of the most beautiful sounds you've ever heard.
 

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