Enough with the optical

[Nismo_GTR]

Ooke, to stop those wasteless topics of inplementing NFSU stupid tuning abilities:

To stop argueing everybody, if come up with a solution which will sattisfy everyone.


1 Dont worry this will never be in GT series, since this is arcade style street racing scene physics. Which has nothing to do with actual circuit racing or simulation.

2Go and play NFSU and not GT if youre in to Flying saucers. ( indeed what i have extracted out of a alternative topic )

3 I may have a good idea for optical customization:

imagine you saved long and hard enough credits to buy a "LOL" Skyline R34 GT-R. by the time you bought one you overlooked the fact that the "Nismo Z-tune" conversion is a litteraly orgasm for you, and you rather would buy the Nismo tuned R34..But... unfortunetly this model is not availible in GT to buy............ HAVE NO GRIEF! Go down to the Nismo store at Nissan in GT and you'll see "Conversion Kits" mode
Cool! you can now buy the Nismo Z-tune bodykit, or an alternative nismo bodykit and also put a nismo decal here and there if you really like to.

also would appeal to Brabus, Alpina and other brand based home tuners. (Brabus not really home tuner, but it is a official licenced one. i guess....)

So the whole idea is to have the ability to purchase officialy made bodykits for some models. Like Nismo Z-tune, BMW AC Schnitscher, Brabus. The whole idea is to take your stock car and modify it at an Home tuner company. here you can have the choice to buy the whole kit or just parts of it. like only Wheels or front spoilers. air inlets name it.

what ya'll think?

 

[Dimitrov]

I think that that you created a difference into "NFSU stupid tuning abilities" and "officialy made bodykits for some models". These are the same.

Real tune = Torquimeters, revolution log functions, brake cooling, tires behavior, ballast, sodium into valves, things like that.

Fake idiotic tune = Vin Diesel, NFSU, Rap Music made for criminals, stickers, neon, Co0o00l BodyK33tz!11!!!!

 

[Jim Prower]

I still say the best Visual tune is the Racing Modification.

 

[Nismo_GTR]

I think that that you created a difference into "NFSU stupid tuning abilities" and "officialy made bodykits for some models". These are the same.

Real tune = Torquimeters, revolution log functions, brake cooling, tires behavior, ballast, sodium into valves, things like that.

Fake idiotic tune = Vin Diesel, NFSU, Rap Music made for criminals, stickers, neon, Co0o00l BodyK33tz!11!!!!

Its not the same, since i did not mention performance tuning, the topic was about optical tuning, and no , it is not the same. Officially released bodykits for certain models is not NFSU tuning

 

[Dave A]

No it's not, I completely agree with you. Too many people think bodykit = NFS, they forget, GT1 and GT2 had bodykit's you could add to the car's, GT4 has a whole car area devoted to modified car's with bodykit's. Performance enhancing bodyparts do have a place in a GT game. 10ft wide wings and neon's don't (though you could agrue neons could have a purpose in photomode for thoes that like them). I'm very open minded, the way I see it is that if it can be done in real life, why not in GT. Let's just say, GT has a big chunck of aero kit's, and then there's one of two less functional kit's, if the game is setup so that thoes part's act realistically, I coudn't care less if I end up on the starting grid next to some tool in a pimped up Civic, when I'm in a race kitted one. I'll past him, since his bodywork will probably create more drag than the original car. Now I'm not saying "I want non-fuctional kit's in GT", personally I don't, but some people do. GT will never be NFS, never, the core of the tow games is 100% different. Even if GT had street races in pimped out Escalades with spinners and Neon's, it wouldn't be NFS, again I'm not saying I want that, just that the two games are not split simply by car modifications. Open the game up, let me modify my car how I want to modify it.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I think heres a vitual interpretation on Dimitrovs post:

- REAL TUNE

- FAKE IDIOTIC TUNE (aka. Ricers)

(:

 

[Dimitrov]

Exactly what i meant, VB.
👍

 

[avenger]

So where do we draw the line between this:

this:

(Veilside)

and this:

Genuine performance and race cars often have huge bodykits - but each one is purpose designed to enhance performance. Widebody kits allow them to have wider wheeltracks. Carbon fibre kits reduce sprung weight. Aero kits increase downforce, while also attempting to reduce drag...
Race mods would be nice, but I'd like the option of picking out of two or three different styles for the one car - Even in racing, cars and their kits are often unique.

 

[Nismo_GTR]

exactly foks, were looking for Race Enhancement kits here, not a.k.a Pimp your ride modification to impress your girlfriend, keep it real, keep it racing....

 

[NismoR34Ztune]

I must say Nismo came up with a very bright idea lads!

 

[Nismo_GTR]

As for Performance tuning:

Racing brakes: Can choose diameters and caliper Size.
Would be great to have bigass Brembo brakediscs under your racing beast

Mufler modification: Can choose type of mufler + Power filter, with this i mean the looks and performance, since in the current gt series the exhaust remains the same. a tuned 700 PK tuned skyline doesnt look realistic with a standard mufler.

Wheels: can choose diameter + can choose more racing wheels brands(realistic, when choosing the wrong diameter de wheels will thouch the underbody at high speed and bumps, also when lowered to much.

body modifications: can remove body parts of a stock car, for example logos and other stuff

Alternative body and performance modification:
When purchasing a intercooler, why not make it visible on the front of the car? also can have the ability to slightly move it, maybe beter with a modified frontbumper, or a whole new one?

wouldnt this be a great thing? someone els any bright ideas?

 

[TheCracker]

So where do we draw the line between this:

(pix of JGTC cars)

this:

(pix of Veilside etc full body kits)

and this:

(pix of home grown rice)

Genuine performance and race cars often have huge bodykits - but each one is purpose designed to enhance performance. Widebody kits allow them to have wider wheeltracks. Carbon fibre kits reduce sprung weight. Aero kits increase downforce, while also attempting to reduce drag...
Race mods would be nice, but I'd like the option of picking out of two or three different styles for the one car - Even in racing, cars and their kits are often unique.

For starters, JGTC cars are a 'silhouette' formula - these cars have never been road cars, they have no body kits - only body work (which just happens to look a little bit like the car its ment to represent)

Body kits like Veilside have probably never been tested in a windtunnel and therefore probably have only a negative effect on the car its fitted to.

GT4 went someway towards improving GT3's shortcomings when it came to 'racing modifications' as seen in GT2. The 'chassis strengthening' by which i guess they are refering to a seem welded shell and comprehensive roll cage, and the 'wings' you can buy in the wheels and oil area, which although shows only the rear wing it lets you adjust an 'invisible' front wing too.

I've got nothing against GT5 having whatever bodykits people want if so many people who want them, as long as it doesn't take the place of something important that will actually make the driving experience better.

I would really welcome back the 'racing modifications' from GT2, it was something that really added to the game.

 

[amar212]

The drawback line here is very simple:

- Tuning and Racing Modifications should be available only from manufactor or manufactor-licenced companies - AKA/or - to have more new tuners in Tuner's Village, especialy for non-japanese brands which would sell finished licenced models (as Brabus, Arden or Schnitzer or whoever)

- Visual mods should stick in present GT Auto form: rear spoilers and rims, with only welcomed edition in front difussers, rear difussers, hood vent-openings when hard-tuned and rim-size option.

- Ricing and Pimping should be fogotten

 

[Nismo_GTR]

I agree with Amar, lets hope polyphony will pick this up ( dont count on that eather....)

 

[Nismo_GTR]

A easier look on things for people what we mean is this:

we have mines tuning in gt4 right?

why not take a individual car, and tune it there with there slightly body adjustments, paint, front difusor respray, mines decal, viewable intercooler in front bumper

looks is also important, aslong as it is in racing style and not ricer ofcourse, those slightly modifications makes it look a real hardcore modified racer.

which is also based on simulation (real-life) ofcourse

 

[Dave A]

Body kits like Veilside have probably never been tested in a windtunnel and therefore probably have only a negative effect on the car its fitted to

Just wanted to say, most veilside kit's are wind tunnel tested and do improve downforce, most of them still look very ugly though.

 

[Dimitrov]

This is the representation of everything that Gran Turismo should not be. Why do these people KEEP painting big tits, eagles, horses, murderers or whatever symbols in the car? Why just don't paint it all "Monterrey Red" or "Imperial Black"? No. They will keep g3771ng th3ir c4rzzzz co0o0o0oll3==r and start painting genitals on it.

Gran Turismo has its finesse, its glamour, its advanced taste on automobiles and its seriousness on choosing brands, models and etc. Note the difference into the soundtrack of NFSU and "An Old Bassman" from Andoh-San. THIS kind of bad-executed job with questionable sense of "art" shall never get into the game.

Analogy:
Gran Turismo = Monaco GP / Fifth Gear / Best Motorsports Intl
This picture = World's Most amazing Police Videos

 

[Nismo_GTR]

Stupid pimp cars to impress B*tches I'll impress you buy flying by with 280 km/p/h Skyline GT-R and blow your pimped out escalade away.

Ofcourse i cannot generalize, some people actually like those flying saucers so i'm not telling YOU MUST be in to race/sports cars. Everyone with there own perspective...

 

[TheCracker]

This picture = World's Most amazing Police Videos

But it's a Limited Edition Aliyah/Louis Vittone Mustang - in factory option Metallic Puke Green!

 

[Jim Prower]

To my knowledge, that thing's probably a V6 'stang. which means V8 guys blow his doors off.

 

[Ford 429 Hemi]

Not only do us v8 guys blow it's doors off, but it pisses us off to see a nice car like that ruined cuz some tard thinks it's cool.
But functional kits aren't all that bad of an idea.
Like if you have a mustang goto steeda or roush etc
You can get a front lip, wing, hood etc that all help.
Hood helps keep engine cooler with vents or scoops etc.
Granted Roush makes non-functional stuff, but it looks cool
and gives the cars an agressive look that has a factory quality finish job.
The problem is, msot of these ricers, don't have any extra performance stuff, and have jsut a mis-matched body kit. Now granted the cars in FNF looked like arse, but they where pushin some big numbers! The supra in the 1st one, Skyline, and EVO in the 2nd one. They had after market body parts but it looked okay and went like a raped ape!
But anyhow, some body mods would be okay, as long as it's from official parts makers and not just there like the wings in gt4.

Like ford guys can goto Fard racing to get rims, some body parts, engine, tranny etc
or they can goto saleen, steeda, Roush because they don't jsut do stangs, but most of ford's line-up. Atleast the Stangs, f-150, and Focus.

 

[HACKr]

To my knowledge, that thing's probably a V6 'stang. which means V8 guys blow his doors off.

Hehe. V6 suckers! All looks and no speed.

 

[droptopmazda]

I think the wheels should be done like Tokyo Extreme Racer Zero. And as far as body kits I think Tokyo Extreme Racer Zero did it the best of any game that is currently out. What I think would be really cool is if people could create there on and post them online for other to download.

 

[JohnBM01]

I've been more supportive of the idea since I've "grown up" with cars from the tuner realm. I've grown up with hip-hop music, so I'm not going to take the "music for criminals" comment (I like electronica more than most other music). I would really recommend seomthing like the Tokyo Xtreme Racer series in talking about "opticals." The only trouble is that many of them look really outlandish. I think I attacked the "Red Devil" Skyline in TXR0, and one person slammed me for it. I did think the R34 variant in TXR3 was a bit better. I think the common conception is that bodykits = "rice" = no belonging in a racing game. I see a few details about this. Pick a side.

FOR OPTICALS:
Well, it worked for Forza, so why not GT as well? The best PD can do with GT5 is to make the game accessible to many types of car fans. I think if they can avoid the downgrades a car can be given (for example: speaker systems, hydraulics, neon underlighting etc.), then it would be perfectly fine. That is because the GT series has pretty much evolved into a virtual automotive community all its own. People think GT should only be about sports cars and keep the "grocery getters" where they belong. That wasn't PD's logic now, was it? The series has ALWAYS been described as an encyclopedia of cars. That is what they believe even if people will be like "an encyclopedia of Nissan Skylines, Mitsubishi Lancers, and oh yeah, a few other cars from six different countries." The game will still be about collecting and racing cars. You have to establish the "something for everyone" concept, right? So why not live a little, man?

AGAINST OPTICALS:
I said it before and will say it again- Gran Turismo is FAR from being NFS:U, Juiced, Street Racing Syndicate, or whatever else. Their inclusion won't make GT a "ricer's" paradise. It will only be a "ricer's" paradise if a Suzuki Wagon R RR can outrun a Toyota GT-One. The inclusion of bodykits will only anger pure sports car fans. Many will feel that your average "grocery getter" is only good for that purpose. A game without bodykits will make people personalize their car by modifying it to be better than stock as opposed to modifying its physical appearance. That is what anti-tuner show "Sports Car Revolution" was about. Even they used the Mugen Integra giving it comments than "it sounds loud, but not 'ricer' loud." Many people will tell you that you can't just change up a car's appearance, give some here-and-there upgrades, and consider your FWD hatchback the fastest car in the world. In fact, just race with the car as it is and not worry about opticals.

NEUTRAL:
It's obvious that bodykits have been stereotypically linked to bad driving, below-average intelligence, "Fast and Furious" street racing, hip-hop music, and stuff like that. But do you really believe that optical tuning is the lowest class of the automobile culture? There are actually people who modify cars to the extent of being incredibly better than stock. Some companies even want to add more aggressive elements to the look of the modified automobile. Look at machines like the Lingenfelter Corvettes, the Roush Mustangs, and even the Tom's Chaser from 2000 (is this car still in production? I think it is, but want to know for sure). Just like the Paint Shop talk in this (and other) forum, we can not... I repeat... CAN NOT associate body kits with "ricers." It's only a problem when the body kit doesn't directly affect a car's performaance. There are probably some aero modifications which doesn't hurt performance at all. One of the advantages to this deal is lighter weight of the car in most instances. Some probably even add better airflow to the engine. I remember looking at some older Mustangs which these big engine bonnets like they are feeding mad air into the engine. Are THEY "ricers" too? Done right, some aero modifications will only enhance the car's looks and make it perform better in the wind. Many of us can agree that "cosmetics" to the car like speakers and such are only detrimental to the performance of cars in the game. Bodykits will only give the tuner/modding fans something to be excited about. That's not saying anything bad because again, they are as much of a worldwide automotive community as anyone who lusts after Ferraris or collector Corvettes. Let's make a compromise. We can all agree on not having Mom-and-Pop body kit designs or for completely ludicrous looks that don't amount to much improvement. The usual expression would be "don't like it? Don't use it." So we can compromise, can't we?

I've picked three sides. Which of my comments (for, against, or neutral) do you agree most with, and what are your comments to the side you've chosen?

 

[Tenacious D]

After spending some time in Forza, I've come around to the idea of giving us a range of proper bodykits to go along with all the other performance upgrades available in the respective games. They do look good, they do enhance the performance and handling of the car nicely, not too much, but enough to justify the money. And those parts are steps towards having a car upgraded to racing specification.

And as others have said, there are cars in GT4 which come in bodykit assembled complete versions. Do you turn your nose up at them, no matter how cool they are? Do you refrain from ever adding a spoiler to a car, but add every other performance upgrade in existence? If you do, you have to realize that you're simply ricing up a car in ways that don't show, and those body panels and fittings are just the visible aspect of what you're doing to a stock car. And keep in mind that racing modification involves adding a bunch of body panels and aerodynamic elements.

I guess it took some time in Forza to realize how silly it was to quibble about some upgrades and not others, and especially to realize that there wasn't much difference between ricing body kits and racing body kits. And by golly, I want to have racing mods done to a bunch of my cars.

 

[JohnBM01]

Again, I find nothing offensive in body kits except for those that are more for looks. I can think of drag racing and road racing cars that had some lightbulbs or complete headlight assemblies removed. This was probably to re-engineer things so that the extra air feeds the engine. More air = more power. I don't think we'll see hardcore modification to cars in Gran Turismo 5 unless PD and automakers can come together on a hellacious agreement to basically modify a car 1,000 times deeper than stock.

I love Tenacious D's approach to this. I've mentioned Forza the past few weeks. That's because the game featured its own bodykit deal. Every car that I made into my own race car in GT4 had a wing unless the car doesn't have a wing available. A rear wing setup basically "completes the look" for me. Someone bashed on the Mini Cooper for being able to have a rear wing fitted to it, but not some other car. I hope I'm not offending anybody in the next few sentences.

Maybe why some of us Americans don't like the rear wing or body modifications deal is we are not really about race cars for the street. We seem to prefer rather boxy or muscular machines with no fancy spoilers or GT wings. Other people will have their reasons. I'm okay with rear wings because they are just that- rear wings. I usually add them to make them proper race cars. But what really needs to be done is the return of Racing Modifications. A better option would be for you to have Racing Modification as its own menu in GT5. From the Racing Modification, a car with an available modification can be given a modification complete with rendered roll cages, functional aerodynamics, different colored head lights (fog lamps nonwithstanding), and basically a number of modifications from mild to insane. Or if you don't like the ones given, you can simply modify the parts with carbon fiber and choose to either paint it or keep it as is (TXR3 derived). Keeping Carbon Fiber shaves off weight, while extra paint can lighten it, like in TXR3. I can recall Tokyo Xtreme Racer Zero when I had an MKIV Toyota Supra and modified it with the best parts. I basically had a proper JGTC/Super GT race car for the street after aero modifications. Same goes for the Honda/Acura NSX in the same game. The Dodge Viper GTS had some nice mods to it, though I wished there was a Team Oreca-style Viper look. Couldn't create such a look in the game for what I know.

We can't stereotype body kits as being looks-only deals that don't amount to much. There are functional kits that need at least SOME consideration. Maybe not consideration... but really something to actually think about. So what do you say? Shall we review functional bodykits in GT5?

 

[Nismo_GTR]

the point it you cant have a 400pk civic with stock body work.
the airflow is incorrect that way, ofcourse you can all lower your car and fit bigger tires under it, but that wont cut it, not even the redicilous high spoilers in GT. SO WE NEED BODY MODIFICATIONS FOR RACING, like spoon or ther manufactures

 

[FWA2500]

you left out Ruf, they start life as Porsches......

 

[Dave A]

No they don't, well not all of them.

This has been covered a few million times before, but Ruf build their own car's from part's, not from Porsches', though a Porsche owner can take thier Porsche to Ruf and have it tuned by Ruf.

 

[JDM'er]

They sould add Bodykits it keeps the Ricers happy and if you don't like them don't fit them simple as that.