Enough with the optical
- Thread starter Nismo_GTR
- 78 comments
- 4,697 views
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
Honestly we can't decide anything yet, certainly not this early. The way most of you put it, appears to me like you are all affraid that something like what happened with the (once so very cool) Need For Speed Series, will happen to Gran Turismo. Before Underground, Need For Speed was a lovely race series. Then it switched completely to the Underground feel, and the whole game was lost like a bad extreme-makeover.
Like I'm trying to say, it depends on how they implement it. If they just put in the "ricer-bodykits", the other ricer stuff, and just leave it there then it's fine with me. If the game will loose it's focuss, or will be adjusted to fit to the "ricer" requirements, then I would be offended and I would reconcider buying the GT5.
And, the question was brought up: "Where to draw the line". Well, the freedom of developing games allows you to draw the line wherever you want. It's not like you are writing difficult laws or something. You can easily leave out the crazy-bodykits and just add some subtle bodykits that don't draw too much attention. That's the freedom of programming, and I'm sure that PD is capable of implementing this stuff in GT5 without ruining GT's original feel.
Like I'm trying to say, it depends on how they implement it. If they just put in the "ricer-bodykits", the other ricer stuff, and just leave it there then it's fine with me. If the game will loose it's focuss, or will be adjusted to fit to the "ricer" requirements, then I would be offended and I would reconcider buying the GT5.
And, the question was brought up: "Where to draw the line". Well, the freedom of developing games allows you to draw the line wherever you want. It's not like you are writing difficult laws or something. You can easily leave out the crazy-bodykits and just add some subtle bodykits that don't draw too much attention. That's the freedom of programming, and I'm sure that PD is capable of implementing this stuff in GT5 without ruining GT's original feel.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
The thing I hate to notice is that when someone thinks of a Paint Shop or body/aero kit deal, is that it should easily be interpreted as "rice." It probably wouldn't be "rice" if a Camaro SS in GT5 had this huge motor in the machine and had to cut pieces out the hood just to get the tall engine to fit now, would it? Fact of the matter is that ANY car can be customized. Didn't Midnight Club 3 and Midnight Club 3 Remix (neither of which I've played) teach you that? I'm sure an old-school Camaro owner in a GT game would want a tall motor with the engine about as all as to the driver's head. I'm sure he/she might want one about as much as making a Honda Accord (not bashing Honda) into another person's own touring car. Just because you mod a car with new paint and maybe some exterior modifications doesn't mean it's "rice." ANY car can be modified with aftermarket parts and fresh paint to be a stylin' machine. Don't believe me? Check out this Chevrolet Nova's gallery:
http://people.smu.edu/acambre/nova/novaeggertsson.html
You can't tell me for one moment that such cars can't be modded to such a degree. While this isn't as outlandish as most compact show cars, this remains a street car modified externally and internally. I was trying to look for a muscle car with maybe some racing graphics with a very tall engine. You know, like an engine build-up so major that you have to cut some big hole in the hood so that the engine can fit the car's hood. But this will suffice. ANYONE with imagination and a dream to mod to his/her content should have a field day with external modifications to cars. It doesn't always have to be "it is what's inside that matters." If you have a mean machine, at least look the part. And that's what we're here debating on.
http://people.smu.edu/acambre/nova/novaeggertsson.html
You can't tell me for one moment that such cars can't be modded to such a degree. While this isn't as outlandish as most compact show cars, this remains a street car modified externally and internally. I was trying to look for a muscle car with maybe some racing graphics with a very tall engine. You know, like an engine build-up so major that you have to cut some big hole in the hood so that the engine can fit the car's hood. But this will suffice. ANYONE with imagination and a dream to mod to his/her content should have a field day with external modifications to cars. It doesn't always have to be "it is what's inside that matters." If you have a mean machine, at least look the part. And that's what we're here debating on.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Well, hopefully in a few days we'll see what goodies Kazunori loaded into Gran Turismo for us, and if there's going to be anything of a GT Vision game at launch in the meantime.
And L4S, someday, you really need to make up your mind. One day, you say that Gran Turismo is a fine racing game with an involving driving experience. Another, and GT is boring, unrealistic crap.
The reasons I don't like games such as Enthusia and GTR is that in the case of GTR, a game in which you're flying around a track constantly at 200+kph without much sense of being connected to the car, and curves that are hard to approach is a major chore. I don't like chores. Not to leave out the extremely technical nature of the game with NO crew chief to manage things. Also, there's only the one F1A racecars in it. Plus, Starforce copy protection is a darn virus. I like the variety of games like Gran Turismo and Forza, which have a good driving experience and loads of variety, along with allowing me to become a car collector.
With Enthusia, the physics are a space distorted mess, as if the game was hacked by some kid playing with the parameters, and the tires are almost non-existent. They certainly don't tell you a darn thing about when you're loosing traction until you're on your way off the track. For people who howl endlessly about how awful Gran Turismo's tires are, I find it strange that there's not one peep from you guys about them.
Live For Speed is getting deleted from my PC too, because it wreaks havoc with my 6800GT video playback, and I'm quite sick of it. The driving experience of 18 fantasy cars - assuming you want to pay $35 for an incomplete game - just isn't worth the headache.
The only things these discussions indicate to me is that you guys will ignore any flaws with your games, and you prefer finicky, twitchy racers.
And L4S, someday, you really need to make up your mind. One day, you say that Gran Turismo is a fine racing game with an involving driving experience. Another, and GT is boring, unrealistic crap.
The reasons I don't like games such as Enthusia and GTR is that in the case of GTR, a game in which you're flying around a track constantly at 200+kph without much sense of being connected to the car, and curves that are hard to approach is a major chore. I don't like chores. Not to leave out the extremely technical nature of the game with NO crew chief to manage things. Also, there's only the one F1A racecars in it. Plus, Starforce copy protection is a darn virus. I like the variety of games like Gran Turismo and Forza, which have a good driving experience and loads of variety, along with allowing me to become a car collector.
With Enthusia, the physics are a space distorted mess, as if the game was hacked by some kid playing with the parameters, and the tires are almost non-existent. They certainly don't tell you a darn thing about when you're loosing traction until you're on your way off the track. For people who howl endlessly about how awful Gran Turismo's tires are, I find it strange that there's not one peep from you guys about them.
Live For Speed is getting deleted from my PC too, because it wreaks havoc with my 6800GT video playback, and I'm quite sick of it. The driving experience of 18 fantasy cars - assuming you want to pay $35 for an incomplete game - just isn't worth the headache.
The only things these discussions indicate to me is that you guys will ignore any flaws with your games, and you prefer finicky, twitchy racers.
- 30,026
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
No I don't, you missintepret me and I've never once, not once said GT4 is crap, so there you have it, that's you putting words into my mouth and twisting what I say. I like GT, I wouldn't have got GT1 through to GT4 if I didn't, but GT4 frustrates the hell out of me. It's a good game, and it's probably as realistic as it possibly could have been on the PS2, but when you or anyone else try's to say it's the most realistic sim around, that's proven to be untrue through telemetry data taken from game's, I **** you not, and I will state that GT4 isn't the most realistic game out there, does that mean I don't like it, no, it just means I see the game for what it is. Also itfrustrates me to think at what potential the game had, and how much of that potential was never used, it dissapoints me. GT4 is nothing new to the GT series, it's a bit mroe realistic than GT3 and it has more car's and track, but the entire formula is the same as it has been since GT1, do something about it PD, I don't want to replay GT again when I get GT5, I want a new experience, a better one. For me, GT4 got boring really fast.
Also, you keep going on about Starforce, hardly any people have had any problems with it, you can get problems with any and I mean any PC game if something in you computer conflicts with something in the game's installation. You say this discussion proves that we ingore flaw's in game's, yet your the only one putting words into people's mouths and praising GT4 as god's gift to driving physics. Every other game anyone has mentioned you either haven't played it, or it's crap. You seem to be the one who's biased.
Oh and regarding Enthusia, a Sony spokesman said, regarding Enthusia's physics when asked about them compared to GT4's, that Sony felt Enthusia was too realisitc for a console game. That's Sony, who said that, admitting EPR was more reaslitic than GT4, and plenty of people know that quote. To reiterate, I like EPR, I like GTR, I like GTL, I like LFS, I like RFactor, I like Forza, and I also like GT4, but it's GT4 that when switched on, holds my attention for the least ammount of time in any sitting. Now also I've noticed your stance seems to ave changed from a GT4 is more realstic to an, I don't like these mopre techcnical game's because.... No-one has said you can't like GT4 more than GTR, or LFS, that's your opinion, hell some people would prefer to play Burnout to any of thoes, but we're telling you, GT4 is not the most realistic in terms of physics, it offers the greatest variety, and to prefer it because of that is fine, me, I would prefer fewer car's but a more realistic experience, but again that's just me, I don't speak for everyone, but neither do you.
Also, you keep going on about Starforce, hardly any people have had any problems with it, you can get problems with any and I mean any PC game if something in you computer conflicts with something in the game's installation. You say this discussion proves that we ingore flaw's in game's, yet your the only one putting words into people's mouths and praising GT4 as god's gift to driving physics. Every other game anyone has mentioned you either haven't played it, or it's crap. You seem to be the one who's biased.
Oh and regarding Enthusia, a Sony spokesman said, regarding Enthusia's physics when asked about them compared to GT4's, that Sony felt Enthusia was too realisitc for a console game. That's Sony, who said that, admitting EPR was more reaslitic than GT4, and plenty of people know that quote. To reiterate, I like EPR, I like GTR, I like GTL, I like LFS, I like RFactor, I like Forza, and I also like GT4, but it's GT4 that when switched on, holds my attention for the least ammount of time in any sitting. Now also I've noticed your stance seems to ave changed from a GT4 is more realstic to an, I don't like these mopre techcnical game's because.... No-one has said you can't like GT4 more than GTR, or LFS, that's your opinion, hell some people would prefer to play Burnout to any of thoes, but we're telling you, GT4 is not the most realistic in terms of physics, it offers the greatest variety, and to prefer it because of that is fine, me, I would prefer fewer car's but a more realistic experience, but again that's just me, I don't speak for everyone, but neither do you.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Well, I was a little grouchy today because I was sick, and I kept banging my head against Forza's last race, the Nurburgring F1 endurance, and the God-cursed bots were flipping both me and B-Spec Bob off the track pretty mercilessly for almost three hours. Sorry about the rant.
But really, I'm not exaggerating what you and some of the others have said all that much.
Look, if you have a terribly realistic racing game based on cars with ridiculous amounts of horsepower and speed, throw in damage and overwhelming amount of technical ruffage, then the game had better not be too hard to get a grip on. Real life racecar drivers with years of experience still have to be on their toes or else someone could get killed, and that's even with a car that talks to them evocatively about what it's doing and how it feels about the drive every hundredth of a second.
If you take that all away in a videogame, then you're going to HAVE to do something to help me out, because those cars are just merciless if you don't know what you're doing. And to make matters worse, if you can't give me a good view of the road so I know how to drive it, then races are going to be nothing but exercizes in frustration. If you can't feel what the car is doing and can't see the road very well, all the perfect physics in the world is pretty worthless.
As for the Sony spokesman commenting on Enthusia, well, I'd expect them to say something like that myself. Especially if the spokesman was Japanese. They usually don't badmouth their competition nedlessly, especially when Konami is one of their key developers.
But seriously, what's so realistic about Enthusia, when you have tires that don't even complain until all traction is lost? Those little rubber rings are darn important to telling you when your car is loosing its footing. It's one of those things which a game designer can actually do fairly easily to help a driver out. And if you want a realistic driving experience and want to race, then those tires had better start to whine while you still have some useful traction. I was really starting to drool when I saw that Miata demo, thinking that EPR was going to be a seriously meaty drive, but then I started a game, turned off the muisic, and then found myself in in some bizarre, hostile dimension who's rules were written by the Devil.
Now, what I've been saying is that games like Gran Turismo and Forza may not be the most technically accurate games around, but I really don't think they have to be if they can, with their meager physics engines, give you almost all of what's happening on the roadway or the raceway. I know you poo-poo when I mentioned that Nissan's test driver got a lap time on the Nurburgring within six seconds of his own in GT4. But if GT4 really is little more than a glorified Hot Wheels game to you PC gamers, that wouldn't happen. I know some of you think doing donuts or burnouts is the definer of physics in a race game, but that's really a torture test, and don't have anything to do with how a car behaves taking a turn or drafting a car in front. But if you think that way, you think that way.
Maybe if you did an experiment like I did, and make a thread about it or something:
Comparisons between Forza and Gran Turismo 4
Note that I love Forza about as much as Gran Turismo, idiot Forza warbots aside. I'm playing it even as I type. Well, watching a replay anyhow, wanting to enjoy some time with my Ferraris and spend some of those HARD earned 11,000,000 credits on some nice cars. I'll work in some Sega GT and some sort of rally game too, but eventually I will come back home to Gran Turismo 4, because you can't deny a lass that lovely for long.
And thanks for putting words in my mouth too.
Anyway, I don't mean to give you or any of the others any more grief over the subject. Let's just kiss and make up... uhm, in a manly way if we can, and maybe I can get this fresh download of LFS to work. But really, I can't let that thing live on my PC if it's going to frook up my video player. Not only do I have a growing anime collection I like to pop into the DVD drive, but E3 is almost here!
Oh, and before I forget, Happy Birthday Forza!
But really, I'm not exaggerating what you and some of the others have said all that much.
Look, if you have a terribly realistic racing game based on cars with ridiculous amounts of horsepower and speed, throw in damage and overwhelming amount of technical ruffage, then the game had better not be too hard to get a grip on. Real life racecar drivers with years of experience still have to be on their toes or else someone could get killed, and that's even with a car that talks to them evocatively about what it's doing and how it feels about the drive every hundredth of a second.
If you take that all away in a videogame, then you're going to HAVE to do something to help me out, because those cars are just merciless if you don't know what you're doing. And to make matters worse, if you can't give me a good view of the road so I know how to drive it, then races are going to be nothing but exercizes in frustration. If you can't feel what the car is doing and can't see the road very well, all the perfect physics in the world is pretty worthless.
As for the Sony spokesman commenting on Enthusia, well, I'd expect them to say something like that myself. Especially if the spokesman was Japanese. They usually don't badmouth their competition nedlessly, especially when Konami is one of their key developers.
But seriously, what's so realistic about Enthusia, when you have tires that don't even complain until all traction is lost? Those little rubber rings are darn important to telling you when your car is loosing its footing. It's one of those things which a game designer can actually do fairly easily to help a driver out. And if you want a realistic driving experience and want to race, then those tires had better start to whine while you still have some useful traction. I was really starting to drool when I saw that Miata demo, thinking that EPR was going to be a seriously meaty drive, but then I started a game, turned off the muisic, and then found myself in in some bizarre, hostile dimension who's rules were written by the Devil.
Now, what I've been saying is that games like Gran Turismo and Forza may not be the most technically accurate games around, but I really don't think they have to be if they can, with their meager physics engines, give you almost all of what's happening on the roadway or the raceway. I know you poo-poo when I mentioned that Nissan's test driver got a lap time on the Nurburgring within six seconds of his own in GT4. But if GT4 really is little more than a glorified Hot Wheels game to you PC gamers, that wouldn't happen. I know some of you think doing donuts or burnouts is the definer of physics in a race game, but that's really a torture test, and don't have anything to do with how a car behaves taking a turn or drafting a car in front. But if you think that way, you think that way.
Maybe if you did an experiment like I did, and make a thread about it or something:
Comparisons between Forza and Gran Turismo 4
Note that I love Forza about as much as Gran Turismo, idiot Forza warbots aside. I'm playing it even as I type. Well, watching a replay anyhow, wanting to enjoy some time with my Ferraris and spend some of those HARD earned 11,000,000 credits on some nice cars. I'll work in some Sega GT and some sort of rally game too, but eventually I will come back home to Gran Turismo 4, because you can't deny a lass that lovely for long.
And thanks for putting words in my mouth too.
Anyway, I don't mean to give you or any of the others any more grief over the subject. Let's just kiss and make up... uhm, in a manly way if we can, and maybe I can get this fresh download of LFS to work. But really, I can't let that thing live on my PC if it's going to frook up my video player. Not only do I have a growing anime collection I like to pop into the DVD drive, but E3 is almost here!
Oh, and before I forget, Happy Birthday Forza!
Sorry to say that Tenacious, but it looks like you don't want realistic driving game, but wannabe-pseudo-realistic carreer game with many real cars and tracks. I get it from what you tell about driving view, every fan of car simulators want to drive them with cam inside, where is place for a driver.Thats ok, i don't judge your preferences, you can play whatever you like, but then don't give some fantasy explanations for every other game mentioned. I don't know **** about Enthusia, as i haven't played it yet. I know GTR and LFS (others like rFactor, Netkar or GTL i have played only once or two times) and things you say about this games, hurt me.
I understand GTR is little bit hardcore, still you got DFP, its much easier then without it (for ex. on keyboard its impossible to play). Why do you say you don't feel connected with the car ? I don't understand that at all, what exactly do you mean ? I don't give a **** about some spiritual feelings, tell me details, ok ? Don't tell me about cam position as this is sim not some arcade. Second thing - StarForce, i also hate it, but then you can download demo i think it's without SF or its turned off.
Next one - LFS, my favourite game as its only 300 mb on disk, very accessible, good network code, realistic, many different "fantasy" cars (EDITED: ok maybe not too many after all but still enough), but if you look close, they're all based on real cars, just they don't have licenses - thats all. If you don't have wheel you can play it succesfully on mouse, i have even met people on net that have played it on keyboard, and had times 5 seconds better then me on DFP. Thats maybe only sim game (don't count old GPL) that allows you to download demo and play online right away.
So what its still in alpha stage ?!? Thats just show how they care about quality as this game is lot better then many other "released" games. I think every fan of car sims will agree game at this stage is worth every penny.
As to your technical problems, i'll contact your privately as i have similar graphic card (GF6600 GT) and i don't have any problems with it.
BTW we're years away from main topic, and gettin back to it, i'm in for bodykits and optical tuning, just don't make GT another NFSU, its maybe not realistic as some other games, but still 1000 times better then arcadish NFSU. I still divide good arcade like SRS (my favourite arcade), Juiced and bad like all NFS:U and MW.
I understand GTR is little bit hardcore, still you got DFP, its much easier then without it (for ex. on keyboard its impossible to play). Why do you say you don't feel connected with the car ? I don't understand that at all, what exactly do you mean ? I don't give a **** about some spiritual feelings, tell me details, ok ? Don't tell me about cam position as this is sim not some arcade. Second thing - StarForce, i also hate it, but then you can download demo i think it's without SF or its turned off.
Next one - LFS, my favourite game as its only 300 mb on disk
, very accessible, good network code, realistic, many different "fantasy" cars (EDITED: ok maybe not too many after all but still enough), but if you look close, they're all based on real cars, just they don't have licenses - thats all. If you don't have wheel you can play it succesfully on mouse, i have even met people on net that have played it on keyboard, and had times 5 seconds better then me on DFP. Thats maybe only sim game (don't count old GPL) that allows you to download demo and play online right away.So what its still in alpha stage ?!? Thats just show how they care about quality as this game is lot better then many other "released" games. I think every fan of car sims will agree game at this stage is worth every penny.
As to your technical problems, i'll contact your privately as i have similar graphic card (GF6600 GT) and i don't have any problems with it.
BTW we're years away from main topic, and gettin back to it, i'm in for bodykits and optical tuning, just don't make GT another NFSU, its maybe not realistic as some other games, but still 1000 times better then arcadish NFSU. I still divide good arcade like SRS (my favourite arcade), Juiced and bad like all NFS:U and MW.
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
Look guys, Tenacious D isn't asking for perfect perfect realism.
Look at Live For Speed, it's cool to know how realistic it is, it's cool to know that you get flatspots on the tyres if you lock up the brakes, thats where Live For Speed's quality lies, the details. But I never noticed it while driving??
GT4 was just out to get the most realistic physics, without a huge developing time. They had cars and focussed on other things too, the visuals and the tuning aspects. PD did a great job at simulating the physics, with the limited amount of power from the PS2. PD knew that if they wanted to make Gran Turismo as realistic as possible, they would just have to wait till the PS3 is out. It wasn't their goal to outdo Live For Speed or other games on other gaming platforms with physics.
With the PS3 they will be back in the running again. And if some think the quality is found in flat spots on tyres when locking up the brakes...well that's your choice.
I like to drift in games, that's why GT4 bothered me, the physics in GT4 that prevent you from making donuts, also effect drifting and oversteer in general. But if you "use" GT4 for what it's meant to be used, racing, then it's a great simulator. On the other hand, the reason why GT4 doesn't keep me entertained for a long time as well, is because of it's huge size, it feels kinda dead. The gameplay is dead and all focussed on car choice. I don't know how they managed to do this but it sucks.
Aside from that though, you 2 just don't realise you are both right. You can't argue about 2 things that are both correct
GT4 is a great simulator and has awsome graphics. But there are games out there that are just a tad more realistic, and just got it all a bit more right on the physics area. Tenacious kinda says "so what?", liveforspeed cares about those details though. Does that mean that someone here is wrong? No, like I said, you are both right.
Look at Live For Speed, it's cool to know how realistic it is, it's cool to know that you get flatspots on the tyres if you lock up the brakes, thats where Live For Speed's quality lies, the details. But I never noticed it while driving??
GT4 was just out to get the most realistic physics, without a huge developing time. They had cars and focussed on other things too, the visuals and the tuning aspects. PD did a great job at simulating the physics, with the limited amount of power from the PS2. PD knew that if they wanted to make Gran Turismo as realistic as possible, they would just have to wait till the PS3 is out. It wasn't their goal to outdo Live For Speed or other games on other gaming platforms with physics.
With the PS3 they will be back in the running again. And if some think the quality is found in flat spots on tyres when locking up the brakes...well that's your choice.
I like to drift in games, that's why GT4 bothered me, the physics in GT4 that prevent you from making donuts, also effect drifting and oversteer in general. But if you "use" GT4 for what it's meant to be used, racing, then it's a great simulator. On the other hand, the reason why GT4 doesn't keep me entertained for a long time as well, is because of it's huge size, it feels kinda dead. The gameplay is dead and all focussed on car choice. I don't know how they managed to do this but it sucks.
Aside from that though, you 2 just don't realise you are both right. You can't argue about 2 things that are both correct
GT4 is a great simulator and has awsome graphics. But there are games out there that are just a tad more realistic, and just got it all a bit more right on the physics area. Tenacious kinda says "so what?", liveforspeed cares about those details though. Does that mean that someone here is wrong? No, like I said, you are both right.
- 30,026
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
No problem, we all have bad day's.Tenacious D
This comes down to prefereence, me I love speeding along feeling on the edge in GTR and LFS etc. I can't get enough of racing thoes games with my DFP and using the cockpit camera. Sure I respect the fact that it may not be ideal since a lot of people might struggle with it, but I did at first, I held out and now I'm pretty good at it, I can go 2 hour race's without smashing my car up and winning in my class, put it that way.
The idea is to provide enough feedback for you know what the car is doing, for me, it's the opposite. I crash in GT4 because I'm driving along, I expect the car to do something it should do in real life, and it doesn't do it, it catches me off guard and I make a mistake. In GTR I crash less, because what the car does in the game, is pretty damn close to what I expect it to, so I make the move, the car move's I carry on, in GT4 I make a certain move, the car does sometihng slightly different and I make a mistake.
Not really, Sony saying GT is very realistic, then saying that games too realistic isn't something you should expect to happen. Basically, they were admitting that GT4 wasn't as realistic.
I think EPR handles low speed driving in road car's a hell of alot better than GT4, but it handles the race car's worse. I use the DFP, I don't know about you, but that's my take on it, tyre phsics and all, it has it's faults, but so does GT4 and Forza. All console game's will be limited more than PC games in how much they can do.
Yet that's and exagerated view of how I look at GT4.
You were at first though, you were saying GT4 was more realistic at first. I don't mind you prefering GT4 at all, it's just to say it's more realistic than GTR or GTL or LFS in terms of physics is untrue.
It means nothing, it most certainly is not proof that the physics match thoes in real life. nd no, GT4 is more than a glorified hotwheel's game, though I like the expression. It's realistic, but it's not as realisitc as other sim's.
No, they don't define the physiscs, you can do donut's in Burnout, some people just use them as an example of if, you can do it in real life, why can't you do such a simple thing in the oh so realsitc GT4. It's simply used as an example of one of the many, many difference these game's may have.
http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11812
I can, and I do, I honestly find GT4 the lest attention holding of all my racing sim's, it's a great but flawed jewel imo.
No problem bud, all in day's workAnd thanks for putting words in my mouth too.
.If it screws up your PC I don't blame you, and that's unfortunate, but for the people that can play it, no problem, it's a different story. So at the end of all this, let's just say, it's our personal preferrences that are seperating our view's, and we're each just as entitled to them
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- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Arkanen, being "connected" to the car means having a sense of being inside a real vehicle, which Gran Turismo 4 does in a way that I have never experienced in a racing game before. Unlike L4S' experience, the cars in GT4 communicate to me in a very evocative way. Having a camera position that favors me is one big part of that, and another is having tire sounds that let me know when I'm approaching the edge of traction loss, and tell me how much traction I'm getting. Gran Turismo 4 puts that together in a way that no other game has. Maybe after playing Forza with its behind the car view for so long, I'd have a better time with GTR, but I'm not a big fan of ultra-performance cars. I prefer racing at 400hp or less. Give me a Ferrari, Supra, NSX or WRX over an F1 car any day. I have gotten pretty dialled into Forza, so we'll see on that, and I do still have the GTR demo on the PC. Hopefully LFS hasn't frooked with its graphics too.
And that's the other thing. I can see the road in Gran Turismo better than I've ever seen the road in any serious game I've ever played. I can approach turns and take them with precision as if I was driving my real life car around a track. So that's what I want in a racing game, to feel like I'm in the car, not watching it, and to be able to see the road well enough to take a turn properly. If you can't do those two things, it can be pretty hopeless.
As for the topic, I'm curious how many people will go to the bodykits if they're in GT5/Vision and give them a try, after making such faces at them. I had a similar experience in Forza, thinking that I'd taken a weird turn into NFSU, but... darn, I really like them. They make a sports car look meaner and add to the performance slightly as they should. And as John and some other have posted, you use those kits in Forza to create serious race cars. You guys should browse the Forzacentral galleries sometime. The cars they created are simply dazzling. I have no clue how they get some of those with the paintshop in the game, but you don't need Photoshop. I'll have to ask them to see if there's a tutorial somewhere.
And that's the other thing. I can see the road in Gran Turismo better than I've ever seen the road in any serious game I've ever played. I can approach turns and take them with precision as if I was driving my real life car around a track. So that's what I want in a racing game, to feel like I'm in the car, not watching it, and to be able to see the road well enough to take a turn properly. If you can't do those two things, it can be pretty hopeless.
As for the topic, I'm curious how many people will go to the bodykits if they're in GT5/Vision and give them a try, after making such faces at them. I had a similar experience in Forza, thinking that I'd taken a weird turn into NFSU, but... darn, I really like them. They make a sports car look meaner and add to the performance slightly as they should. And as John and some other have posted, you use those kits in Forza to create serious race cars. You guys should browse the Forzacentral galleries sometime. The cars they created are simply dazzling. I have no clue how they get some of those with the paintshop in the game, but you don't need Photoshop. I'll have to ask them to see if there's a tutorial somewhere.
Don't get me wrong i love japan cars, thats why i love GT4, i won't be original here as i love Skylines a lot and any other japan sport car 
Thats what i like about GT, i would love to see it gettin better and better in direction of even more realism. I'm also not a big fan of F1 (maybe more now as man from Poland - Kubica is now BMW test driver ) or FIA racing championship. I'm more into BMI or JGTC. BTW. You got Ferraris in GTR hehe if you like 
I like GT but i'm not a blind fanboy and i see some flaws in it.
Ok, lets all stop offtopic as this discussion don't belong here, there is another thread for it.
Thats what i like about GT, i would love to see it gettin better and better in direction of even more realism. I'm also not a big fan of F1 (maybe more now as man from Poland - Kubica is now BMW test driver ) or FIA racing championship. I'm more into BMI or JGTC. BTW. You got Ferraris in GTR hehe if you like I like GT but i'm not a blind fanboy and i see some flaws in it.
Ok, lets all stop offtopic as this discussion don't belong here, there is another thread for it.
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
On a realism note, I rediscovered GT4 when I began putting N3 tyres on every car I had (except for race cars, they got super hard race tyres). I had all aids off, plus I switched to the more boring looking in-car view. I previously used the roof-camera where you can see the bonnet, cause somehow it seemed more life like. But you can really see the car move in the official in-car view mode. And together with N3 tyres and without aids, I discovered every car in GT4 had a distinct way of handling!👍 Never knew they were so different.
- 30,026
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Different car's should have different N tyre's on for maximum realism, most car's are best with N2's. All of my opinion's on GT4 are based on driving road car's with the N tyre's on, unless otherwise specified, ie the LMP car's etc. Now I'm going to keep this on topic and tie that in with the opticals, how about being able to choose tyre's with different profile's, width's and tread's for each tyre type. So rather than just, sport's tyre, you'd have a selection of different sport's tyre's with different tread's, maybe some would benefit different car's a bit more, or differet driving style's etc. Then you could also have different sized wheel's, with wise as well as diameter, so your tyre's would be matched to your wheel's. It'd be cool if you could fit wider wheel's on the back of a car with a rear traction problem.
- 97
i think gt4 sould have aero kits just only for aerodynamical reasons' or more in the tuner villagesection it doesnt matter, but think.... all trueno's and silvia mm mm mmmmmm
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
There has been quite a call from both the GT and Forza camps for different sized tires and rims, so we'll have to see what news comes out of E3 next week.
And guys, I have to say that finally taking some time to explore the Forza paint shop, I'm seriously impressed. At first I was a little lost because you get three basic elements to trick up your car. There's the paint layer itself, "vinyls," which come in various patterns, some of which are just silly looking, and "decals" which are a list of decals from the licensed upgrades for the game. What you don't get is the ability to draw anything, which you'd expect if you're going to do anything very involved with your paint scheme! So, what the heck do you do with a "vinyl"??
Quite a lot actually. The vinyls are basic pattern elements you use to lay paint patterns on your rides. You only get a paltry 100 colors or so to work with, and you can't alter them, but the range of colors is good enough to do some serious artistry. You also use the vinyls to create text, which is quite tedious, but it's the only way to add a bit more character.
I'm no automotive Rembrandt by any stretch, but in just a few hours of futzing with a couple of cars, and no helps or FAQs, I'm addicted, and amazed at how easy it is to get some serious results. With just a few elements, I've given a basic blue Silvia a graphite hood and tail, and a gorgeous airbrushed midnight blue effect to the top and along the bottom edge for a carshow quality glow. And a CRX was a doddle, as L4S would say, to give a blue on dark blue checkerboard pattern across the entire body, racing numbers styled just right, and a smattering of decals to make it look ready to tackle any SCCA challenge. The basic building blocks combined with some flexible editing tools give you a lot of Photoshop-like capability. Of course if you want to go nuts, exporting the texturemap to your computer is the way to go, but someone somewhere did a scheme with a Sponge Bob Squarepants on the hood, done just with the Forza paint tools! So you don't need anything more to come up with some very sophisticated results.
Which of course brings me to the GT and Forza sequels which we'll be discussing to death in the coming months. Polyphony really needs to add something like this to Gran Turismo! But more powerful of course. Along with body kits and performance mods, this really is all you need to turn ANY car into a serious racing machine.
I'm going to be buying a lot of Forza cars in the coming months and painting my brains out!
And guys, I have to say that finally taking some time to explore the Forza paint shop, I'm seriously impressed. At first I was a little lost because you get three basic elements to trick up your car. There's the paint layer itself, "vinyls," which come in various patterns, some of which are just silly looking, and "decals" which are a list of decals from the licensed upgrades for the game. What you don't get is the ability to draw anything, which you'd expect if you're going to do anything very involved with your paint scheme! So, what the heck do you do with a "vinyl"??
Quite a lot actually. The vinyls are basic pattern elements you use to lay paint patterns on your rides. You only get a paltry 100 colors or so to work with, and you can't alter them, but the range of colors is good enough to do some serious artistry. You also use the vinyls to create text, which is quite tedious, but it's the only way to add a bit more character.
I'm no automotive Rembrandt by any stretch, but in just a few hours of futzing with a couple of cars, and no helps or FAQs, I'm addicted, and amazed at how easy it is to get some serious results. With just a few elements, I've given a basic blue Silvia a graphite hood and tail, and a gorgeous airbrushed midnight blue effect to the top and along the bottom edge for a carshow quality glow. And a CRX was a doddle, as L4S would say, to give a blue on dark blue checkerboard pattern across the entire body, racing numbers styled just right, and a smattering of decals to make it look ready to tackle any SCCA challenge. The basic building blocks combined with some flexible editing tools give you a lot of Photoshop-like capability. Of course if you want to go nuts, exporting the texturemap to your computer is the way to go, but someone somewhere did a scheme with a Sponge Bob Squarepants on the hood, done just with the Forza paint tools! So you don't need anything more to come up with some very sophisticated results.
Which of course brings me to the GT and Forza sequels which we'll be discussing to death in the coming months. Polyphony really needs to add something like this to Gran Turismo! But more powerful of course. Along with body kits and performance mods, this really is all you need to turn ANY car into a serious racing machine.
I'm going to be buying a lot of Forza cars in the coming months and painting my brains out!
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
You don't need to fret over things like this. The first thought in your mind shouldn't be "rice" when you think about this. Trust me that you will NOT see illegal street racing and evading police. There is SOME productive value outside of the stereotypical deal about "ricing out" cars. I think cars can be modified externally so that a tuned ride can actually LOOK like one instead of being a sleeper. That's especially for the ones modified to a degree to where a street car is better made for racing than street use. Don't think "rice" as soon as you imagine this deal. I sometimes think that I want to really turn my Corvette ZO6 in GT4 into a race car. It is still a shame that Racing Modifications haven't been in the series since GT2. I don't want the only "Racing Modification" to be adding a rear wing to a car. I still want to be able to give the car carbon fiber bodywork, an aggressive and functional body look, and basically just making a sports car a pure race car and a not-so powerful machine into resepectible touring cars or rally cars.
I just hate thinking about "rice" in talking about any of this. Since bodykits alone are a bad concept to many, I usually want to think of some sort of dual purpose. That's why I supported the idea of touge track ideas by talking about touge courses as tarmac rallies. I recently bought a three-pack of Anime books from the ever-popular "Initial D" series. So I'm pretty sure I have tanible touge proof. There's probably a little-known quality if you inspire your view of touge racing. You all like to tlak about this kind of stuff is for "ricers." Well, none of the cars (if any) in the "Initial D" series has things like extravagant bodykits, fancy paint jobs, or anything like that. So go easy on this fictional series in that respect. I believe NONE of the cars have anything to even denote or suggest "rice" or "fanboyism/fangirlism." I think a crossover could be made to keep things about racing while not being an illegal street racing deal. PD will have to screw up really bad in order for illegal street racing stuff to take over the GT series.
Honestly, I think we all want Racing Modifications to return. Will we get it back? Or will it be back in a piece-by-piece deal? Sega GT 2002 had a great idea- include driver plates to cars. That's ONE step to a Racing Mod deal since a car now has designation that it's a race car. GT4: Online Edition will feature this, so I wouldn't be surprised if this carries into GT5. I do think that racing plate numbers can be authentic to each car's age. You don't want NASCAR-style numbers on an oh-so-beautiful Mercedes-Benz 300SL, would you? So cars can have racing plate numbers like 1960s F1 cars if at all possible.
Enough with opticals? There are some great exceptions many people seem to overlook.
I just hate thinking about "rice" in talking about any of this. Since bodykits alone are a bad concept to many, I usually want to think of some sort of dual purpose. That's why I supported the idea of touge track ideas by talking about touge courses as tarmac rallies. I recently bought a three-pack of Anime books from the ever-popular "Initial D" series. So I'm pretty sure I have tanible touge proof. There's probably a little-known quality if you inspire your view of touge racing. You all like to tlak about this kind of stuff is for "ricers." Well, none of the cars (if any) in the "Initial D" series has things like extravagant bodykits, fancy paint jobs, or anything like that. So go easy on this fictional series in that respect. I believe NONE of the cars have anything to even denote or suggest "rice" or "fanboyism/fangirlism." I think a crossover could be made to keep things about racing while not being an illegal street racing deal. PD will have to screw up really bad in order for illegal street racing stuff to take over the GT series.
Honestly, I think we all want Racing Modifications to return. Will we get it back? Or will it be back in a piece-by-piece deal? Sega GT 2002 had a great idea- include driver plates to cars. That's ONE step to a Racing Mod deal since a car now has designation that it's a race car. GT4: Online Edition will feature this, so I wouldn't be surprised if this carries into GT5. I do think that racing plate numbers can be authentic to each car's age. You don't want NASCAR-style numbers on an oh-so-beautiful Mercedes-Benz 300SL, would you? So cars can have racing plate numbers like 1960s F1 cars if at all possible.
Enough with opticals? There are some great exceptions many people seem to overlook.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Dimitrov
Yep, intrests me to.. My latest infos told that GT: online has been ditched in favour of "other projects"..
BTW Dimitrov, you have forgotten The Biggest Boring Subject of GT games of all times in you respectfull signature - 3D rims in-game. That one will remain sacred forever in our hearts.
- 24,053
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
amar212
That sounds very PD
