Every time I come back to this game

[Jamie Bbbbb]

...I don't get how you guys do it.

Starting P14 in Race C... I'm A+ but I'm not bothering to use my wheel this time so I'm two seconds off the pace...

Make it up to sixth, got Medium runners closing up behind me when I'm on Hards, I have to keep them behind me on the track to the end...

And a kind gentleman gives me a nice punt up the rear end going into the right-hander before the tunnel, and it's over.

How am I supposed to take a game seriously where you can torpedo people off the track and get no penalty for it? SR does nothing; you can do this at least a couple of times a race and keep your S rating. (This was an SR S lobby, if I need mention that.) Am I supposed to be trying to make these people feel bad for their actions, or what? Because other than one's own morals, there's nothing to stop people doing this from what I can see whenever I come back to this game. A game that I played vehemently from 2017-19, back when doing this pretty much always gave a five- or ten-second penalty. YES, it was over-sensitive; but it seems to me that a strict law is better than none. I heard that the removal of contact penalties had something to do with the FIA not liking it...is this true? Is there any hope for GT7's Sport Mode that we can have some boundaries within which to work, or is it gonna be a Wild West scenario from Day One?

Do you people who still play regularly not have a similar experience?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Yes, very similar experience. I start on hards at the back at Suzuaka in mixed A/S, A+/S rooms. First the non qualifiers behind me bump me wide or off the get past. Then the A+ early pit stoppers bump me wide or off to get past on their fresh mediums while I'm still on hards until lap 5.

There are a few people that manage to get a red S in the race but most are all shiny blue, no penalties. No effort to make a real pass anymore, bump you wide to make a gap, dive in a gap that's not really a gap, not leaving room when side by side into a corner.

I resort to resetting my DR/SR now and then, at least I can then catch up with the trouble makers for some pay back. It's also so broken that the cleanest races were in SR.B on Sarthe last week. That race only netted 9 SR for a clean race while front to back contact (including draft bumping) costs SR, up to -10 for running into a stalled car or brake check.

The mentality in SR.S and higher DR is, driving dirty / full on contact is expected. If you lose a couple SR points, you get easier races to go pole to flag in a lower SR room, free victory, and back to the top split battlefield.

All I know so far from GT7 is, I saw a green SR up arrow in the footage. Hopefully that means SR Down is back as well and more.

 

[PirovacBoy]

@Jamie Bbbbb Same experience here, and therefore the Reason why I stopped doing Dailies.
It just doesn’t make sense anymore.
Btw, my last Daily Race that I did was in late 2018 or early 2019, I don’t remember exactly. Since then, I’ve sticked to FIA only.
I think it was sometime when Dailies became Weekly Races.
People had time to grind for a fast lap time and that was the big Problem imo.
When Dailies actually were Dailies, you did set your time and drove, the Penalty System was somehow good and clean races were possible.
But after the switch to Weekly Races and unnecessary changes to the Penalty System, the Driving Standards just went down the drain and completely spoiled the fun for me.
I‘m a Gentleman Driver and am not willing to ditch my personal Driving Standards just because the Game forces me to do, because honestly, if you’re nice, you’re going to be eaten alive.
Don’t expect mercy, People are going to do anything to overtake.
To sum it up, either you adapt to these “Rules" or stay away from Dailies.
My biggest hopes for GT7 are a working and super none forgiving Penalty System.
Otherwise it’s going to be the same Farce as it is right now.
And as you may imagine, I’m definitely not going to ditch my Integrity just for some meaningless DR.
I never understood why People care about it. But that’s the downside of playing competitive online Games in General. Adapt or leave…it’s your choice…I left

 

[BigSarj]

Suzuka was terrible today. I noticed that I am back down to B. I just hope I don't keep running into these monsters. Gonna try for one or two more.

 

[HarVee]

...I don't get how you guys do it.


Do you people who still play regularly not have a similar experience?

It's easy - don't play online. That's how I can return to the game and not have a similar experience.

 

[Ashthebash]

...I don't get how you guys do it.

Starting P14 in Race C... I'm A+ but I'm not bothering to use my wheel this time so I'm two seconds off the pace...

Make it up to sixth, got Medium runners closing up behind me when I'm on Hards, I have to keep them behind me on the track to the end...

And a kind gentleman gives me a nice punt up the rear end going into the right-hander before the tunnel, and it's over.

How am I supposed to take a game seriously where you can torpedo people off the track and get no penalty for it? SR does nothing; you can do this at least a couple of times a race and keep your S rating. (This was an SR S lobby, if I need mention that.) Am I supposed to be trying to make these people feel bad for their actions, or what? Because other than one's own morals, there's nothing to stop people doing this from what I can see whenever I come back to this game. A game that I played vehemently from 2017-19, back when doing this pretty much always gave a five- or ten-second penalty. YES, it was over-sensitive; but it seems to me that a strict law is better than none. I heard that the removal of contact penalties had something to do with the FIA not liking it...is this true? Is there any hope for GT7's Sport Mode that we can have some boundaries within which to work, or is it gonna be a Wild West scenario from Day One?

Do you people who still play regularly not have a similar experience?

Don't get wound up by it, that's all I can say. I did a few races on my NA account and had two ruined by the same guy, first race blocking and weaving whenever I had a run and the second race he straight up brake checked me, when that failed he just torpedoed me into the chicane. As such I went and did a qualy time to be away from him (and lo and behold - he wasn't in the next races!)

Some people are inherent arseholes and it doesn't matter where you meet them, their sole intention is to ruin your experience. If you're A+ I can tell you that most people you race with will be clean, and if we're honest, when this game is good (and people are behaving) it's very good - and worth sticking with.

As for GT7, I just hope we have a nice representative penalty system that punishes those who regularly crash

 

[s0cks]

I watch a lot of Super GT vids and he seems to do ok. I'm only C|S and for the most part my races seem relatively clean. Sometimes people do make mistakes, but that can be forgiven. The only time I drop loads of SR is in races with awkward cars like the Tuscan, where people inevitably lose control and literally can't avoid you.

I wonder if there is any difference between regions? I'm mostly up against Japanese and Aussies.

 

[soc123_au]

I watch a lot of Super GT vids and he seems to do ok. I'm only C|S and for the most part my races seem relatively clean. Sometimes people do make mistakes, but that can be forgiven. The only time I drop loads of SR is in races with awkward cars like the Tuscan, where people inevitably lose control and literally can't avoid you.

I wonder if there is any difference between regions? I'm mostly up against Japanese and Aussies.

I find the same. I usually fluctuate between B/S and C/S and for the most part people try to be clean. There is always a few idiots, but overall I think most people want to be fair. It has gotten more aggressive since the penalties got shelved though.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Zero tolerance contact penalties would be amazing for gt7. All the new players will know what’s expected of them.

 

[s0cks]

Zero tolerance contact penalties would be amazing for gt7. All the new players will know what’s expected of them.

I wonder how you work out who is at fault though. Cus if someone brakes too early, or maliciously brake checks you, or re-enters the track poorly after a crash, or pulls in front of you at the start of an overtake manoeuvre, and you hit them, will you be the one to get penalised?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I wonder how you work out who is at fault though. Cus if someone brakes too early, or maliciously brake checks you, or re-enters the track poorly after a crash, or pulls in front of you at the start of an overtake manoeuvre, and you hit them, will you be the one to get penalised?

Both.

It's unfair, but still better than giving the penalty to the wrong car, which will be abused as it has been in all iterations PD has tried.

When you can't get away with it, penalties start working. The reason you hardly see straight up punts in SR.E is, cars that try to punt, ie enter the braking zone too fast, get ghosted. It never works, so people stopped trying. No way to cheat the system and the dirty crap dies out.

Side swipes get ghosted as well but is still hit and miss. Thus people still try it in low SR. Hilarious when they ghost through you off the track or into a wall. But since it doesn't always ghost, people keep trying...

It would be great if PD can apply some real racing rules, so even if people avoid your dirty move you still end up with a penalty for trying. Hence I say, if the game deems your driving so dangerous you need to be ghosted, why not give them a penalty? Ghosting shouldn't be a free pass for attempted murder.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I wonder how you work out who is at fault though. Cus if someone brakes too early, or maliciously brake checks you, or re-enters the track poorly after a crash, or pulls in front of you at the start of an overtake manoeuvre, and you hit them, will you be the one to get penalised?

Both cars would get penalties. Yes, it‘s harsh and the YouTubers won‘t like it, but the YouTubers are in the very top splits where you may get one dirty move per race against them, and they make it the thumbnail for the video. We are getting dirty moves at basically every corner from half the field.
Other racers also know that they’re going to be on big community youtube channels when racing them, so they often race cleaner, and even just let them go straight through with no fight.
I wasn’t around before they got rid of penalties so I can’t speak from experience but it has to be better than the current state. As @Sven Jurgens said, the goal should be for real racing, contact can finish a race and the moves that people routinely try and pull off would result in multiple fatalities IRL.

 

[NevilleNobody]

The issue is the resets. There used to be quite a harsh penalty system and I try to be clean man but sometimes it was just hard to avoid a touch. I'd lose all my DR and have to build it again. Really frustrating.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The issue is the resets. There used to be quite a harsh penalty system and I try to be clean man but sometimes it was just hard to avoid a touch. I'd lose all my DR and have to build it again. Really frustrating.

The resets need to go. They don't punish the dirty drivers, they punish everyone else

Can't gain much DR from a fast driver recovering his DR, yet the recovering driver can get many easy pole to flag victories and ends up back in SR.S. Terrible system.

 

[s0cks]

Will that work though? Like if I intentionally punt someone off the track or into a spin, and we both get a 1sec penalty, who is better off there? It's still the aggressor who wins ultimately. And if you say the rear driver should get a much bigger penalty then you run the risk of people slowing down/brake checking to give the driver behind a penalty.

It's a difficult thing to get right imo. One reason iRacing uses actual people to resolve in-race altercations.

It kinda sucks, but I almost feel like no-collisions (or permanent ghosting) might almost be preferable in a lot of races. But obviously that's not what we want.

They should develop an AI for judging penalties lol. I'd be more impressed by that than Sophy! Haha.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Will that work though? Like if I intentionally punt someone off the track or into a spin, and we both get a 1sec penalty, who is better off there? It's still the aggressor who wins ultimately. And if you say the rear driver should get a much bigger penalty then you run the risk of people slowing down/brake checking to give the driver behind a penalty.

It's a difficult thing to get right imo. One reason iRacing uses actual people to resolve in-race altercations.

It kinda sucks, but I almost feel like no-collisions (or permanent ghosting) might almost be preferable in a lot of races. But obviously that's not what we want.

They should develop an AI for judging penalties lol. I'd be more impressed by that than Sophy! Haha.

Punts are easy though. If speed >>> suggested speed for section of track -> punt, 10 sec penalty
If it's a brake check you would not be exceeding the local speed limit.

Brake checks are harder to determine as the car ahead could have been braking for another car or even one of those pesky blocks bouncing over the track.

SR and penalties need to be separated. Penalties reserved for the worst behavior like punts or somebody ends up crashing. Yet safety points deducted for all contact. Then use a measure like number of contacts measured over time compared to everyone else to determine your SR.

I was hoping for Sophy to be a racing steward as well, but she's just as bad lol. I watched the whole video, very aggressive, contact happened, AI got a few penalties from the stewards (ran someone off road, plenty rubbing, bumped someone wide) and I guess the one move rule doesn't apply to GT Sport. Very aggressive movements on the straights, mirroring the car behind to block them. Nasty stuff for which I have punted people off

It's possible to make decent penalty decision by looking at steering inputs. The biggest issues atm are side swipes, pushing people off, not leaving room. Those are all easily detected by an algorithm, no AI needed.

The hard things are the small contacts, a rub in a corner, a little bump in a braking zone. No fault / shared fault is fine for that. But you can also bring the penalties back where if one car goes off the other gets a penalty. It worked pretty well, yet people figured out ways to abuse it, draft bump, then tap the wall to give the car ahead a penalty. Instead of fixing that exploit, PD could have simply looked at your steering input. If you deliberately drive off or into a wall, penalty for you instead of the car ahead...

That loophole is still used today. Hit car, take free short cut. Also there look at the input and result. If you take advantage of a collision, shortcut, gain time / position -> penalty. If uncertain just a warning and SR down. It's the cheaters you want to catch, tap a car at a chicane to skip the chicane.

Fix the easy stuff, SR down for both for all else. It doesn't need to be perfect, it simply needs to close the door on getting away with dirty driving. It's so bad now, I got 2.5 sec penalty for going slightly wide at race B to avoid contact with a car while going 2 wide through the corner. Had I steered into him to avoid stepping over the line, potentially causing one or both of us to crash, no penalty

PD knows the track limit penalties are crap, they turned them off for the pro vs AI races I saw plenty track limit penalties in the Sarthe race if they were on, from both the pros and the AI

 

[s0cks]

I like the speed limit idea. They could potentially send Sophy round to figure out maximum speed limits

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I like the speed limit idea. They could potentially send Sophy round to figure out maximum speed limits

Haha, don't need a cannon to kill a fly. There is a bit of a grey area where you still have a chance to make a corner, but otherwise, max possible deceleration is easy to determine for the car, max turn rate by speed is easy to determine, position on the track is known. It's an easily solvable equation, no AI needed.

It doesn't need to be exact, it simply needs a cut off between an accidental touch and flying into the corner to use another car to slow down.

Also it needs to look at your brake / throttle inputs. A lot of dirt happens at the end of the braking zone, lift early to bump the car ahead off or wide for a pass. But you need to distinguish that from brake checks on the apex. Tricky one with traffic around. Shared fault probably best until Sophy can figure it out First the AI needs to learn to drive clean (Much better already than your average player but still bumped and ran a car off not leaving room)

 

[O604]

If Sophy bumped you off would it wait for you and give the spot back?

Processing collective player data......... Accelerate

 

[Sven Jurgens]

If Sophy bumped you off would it wait for you and give the spot back?

Processing collective player data......... Accelerate

The way Sophy was dirty blocking on the straight, madly weaving to mirror the moves from the car coming from behind, I would have punted her off at Mulsanne The pro drivers did it too, and the commentator just called it "a few weaves", so much for my idea of clean racing lol. “All the time you have to leave a space!” unless you're a pro or Sony AI

That, bumping and not leaving room, kinda shows PD isn't too interested in fair racing. But to be fair Kazunori Yamauchi's is still wondering "what is sports" 🤣

Fascinating to watch, but not sure if I'll enjoy racing that kind of aggressive AI.

And no, Sophy didn't give the position back after bumping Kokubun off

(1:05:15 in case the timestamp doesn't work)

I'm watching round 2 atm, AI got faster and dirtier doh. Second lap into Maggiore, AI has 0.5 sec track cut penalty, a 3 sec and a 7 sec penalty for colliding, bumping the pro drivers off.


Track limits are on, but it's maggiore I guess haha

After watching the videos, I get it now. Instead of fixing the penalty system, PD created an unbeatable dirty AI

Cool stuff, comparing the behaviour. AI evolving into more and more aggressive moves. Basically discovering why Sports need rules.

 

[CBH]

Will that work though? Like if I intentionally punt someone off the track or into a spin, and we both get a 1sec penalty, who is better off there? It's still the aggressor who wins ultimately. And if you say the rear driver should get a much bigger penalty then you run the risk of people slowing down/brake checking to give the driver behind a penalty.

It's a difficult thing to get right imo. One reason iRacing uses actual people to resolve in-race altercations.

It kinda sucks, but I almost feel like no-collisions (or permanent ghosting) might almost be preferable in a lot of races. But obviously that's not what we want.

They should develop an AI for judging penalties lol. I'd be more impressed by that than Sophy! Haha.

On my other account last week I went on to do a couple of Daily races and both races, I got rammed and pushed of the track for no bloody reason. So I ended up quitting the second race midway through, to me this is not enjoyment in racing with other players.
Something needs to be done like permanent ghosting maybe the best option to stop these incident from happening, and if not where is the enjoyment if your getting rammed or punted of the track.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Penalty for both sides + realistic damage system + reduced pinball collision physics is the only way to go.

Clean racing is a shared responsibility. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong. You try to avoid contact no matter what. The other guy tries to avoid contact no matter what. Everyone tries to avoid contact and the culture propagates that way. As soon as one person initiates contact, finger pointing and blaming starts, the lines of what's acceptable or not gets blurred and it's all a slippery slope which ends with revenge punts and all that crap. You don't need to read texts on clean racing or watch videos on racing etiquette. The responsibility starts with yourself, and if you stick by it, others will notice and do the same to you

Of course you still get people who drive dirty no matter what, but they're beyond saving really. Just know to avoid engaging them. Usually I just let them pass and just pressure them into self destructing themselves or others

 

[s0cks]

Penalty for both sides + realistic damage system + reduced pinball collision physics is the only way to go.

Clean racing is a shared responsibility. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong. You try to avoid contact no matter what. The other guy tries to avoid contact no matter what. Everyone tries to avoid contact and the culture propagates that way. As soon as one person initiates contact, finger pointing and blaming starts, the lines of what's acceptable or not gets blurred and it's all a slippery slope which ends with revenge punts and all that crap. You don't need to read texts on clean racing or watch videos on racing etiquette. The responsibility starts with yourself, and if you stick by it, others will notice and do the same to you

Of course you still get people who drive dirty no matter what, but they're beyond saving really. Just know to avoid engaging them. Usually I just let them pass and just pressure them into self destructing themselves or others

Some good ethos there. I do notice the cleaner I try and race, the cleaner people are. My SR is 98, and I don't think I'd have got there and continued to stay there if it wasn't for people being generally clean. We all make mistakes though, and keeping a cool head when someone accidently hits you is important. Dirty players tend to be obviously dirty and will be driving in such a way that it's obvious to everyone. At S rank I find that's pretty rare, and most collisions are not intentional. Hell, just last night I made the mistake of going straight into a race with no warm up and picked the wrong damn car. I hit too many people for my liking and felt pretty guilty. Next race I got the right car and had obviously warmed up, kept it super clean and netted myself a win. I will even give back positions to people I accidently hit, which has cost me a fair bit, but I'd rather be that guy than not.

 

[CBH]

Some good ethos there. I do notice the cleaner I try and race, the cleaner people are. My SR is 98, and I don't think I'd have got there and continued to stay there if it wasn't for people being generally clean. We all make mistakes though, and keeping a cool head when someone accidently hits you is important. Dirty players tend to be obviously dirty and will be driving in such a way that it's obvious to everyone. At S rank I find that's pretty rare, and most collisions are not intentional. Hell, just last night I made the mistake of going straight into a race with no warm up and picked the wrong damn car. I hit too many people for my liking and felt pretty guilty. Next race I got the right car and had obviously warmed up, kept it super clean and netted myself a win. I will even give back positions to people I accidently hit, which has cost me a fair bit, but I'd rather be that guy than not.

I too give give up positions when I make mistakes and I had some nice races with players, but you always are going to get a few clowns on daily races. So I continue doing daily races but on my main account now, because I thought having two account would work for me but no. If you see my fordlaser777 name I am harmless out on the track.

 

[s0cks]

I too give give up positions when I make mistakes and I had some nice races with players, but you always are going to get a few clowns on daily races. So I continue doing daily races but on my main account now, because I thought having two account would work for me but no. If you see my fordlaser777 name I am harmless out on the track.

Mind if I add you? I see your SR is B. If you can get that up to S you'll likely have much better races. Just spend one evening keeping away from players and staying clean - finishing position be damned, just get your SR up.

 

[CBH]

Mind if I add you? I see your SR is B. If you can get that up to S you'll likely have much better races. Just spend one evening keeping away from players and staying clean - finishing position be damned, just get your SR up.

No problem.

 

[JDMKING13]

Any of you guys use clutch with a shifter when playing GTS? My favorite is 930 turbo, no abs with comfort hard tires driving around Tokyo staying in one lane! The shifting sound is extremely pleasing.

 

[05XR8]

To answer the OP, I’ve been A ranked most of my Sport Mode time. I just don’t fight it. If I have the pace to stay ahead, I run that pace. If I know a car on fresher tyres has caught me, If they continue to show pace, I give up the spot. Makes no sense to hold them up. If it’s one on one, maybe I’ll fight, but fighting in this game, slows us both up. Especially when there’s a train coming.

I rather drop a spot, than have the car behind get frustrated. Most of my racecraft come from (V8)Supercars. Those drivers know who they’re racing. Those of us that play often, know who is who. However, last year and now, it’s just been pot luck who I see in my races. The game has been pretty much over for me, once GT7 was announced. No biggies when GT7 opens. New cars, tracks, weather conditions and players. We’ll see what happens.

 

[xMAXIx79]

One Example.. Last Night, my Last "Race" I´ll start at 3 an the Race was good fast and Clean as i can see. The first Round Place 1 and 2 Driver was to fast with could Tyres and fly out from the Track. From behind on Driver comes and Overtake more and More Drivers, this one close behind me i was looking for and i see other "overtaker" Driver hit him hard out to the Sand. OK i see that and thinking about what i make if he near of my car. I was sure he also want to hits me out.
OK we ar on Round 5 of Race B, i dont want to risk that this unfair Driver knocks me out an an bad Situation. I was thinking a 2. Place are also good for me, so i slow down my speed an change the Line away from Ideal Line. So this other Drivers come and have much room to overtake me clean an get the 1. Position. What he makes? If we was Side by Side, he pushes me hard out of that Track.

What kind of ****king stupid Assholes are playing this Game? Thats only possible why we dont have a good penalty System for Side by Side Contakt ectr.

 

[Jamie Bbbbb]

To answer the OP, I’ve been A ranked most of my Sport Mode time. I just don’t fight it. If I have the pace to stay ahead, I run that pace. If I know a car on fresher tyres has caught me, If they continue to show pace, I give up the spot. Makes no sense to hold them up. If it’s one on one, maybe I’ll fight, but fighting in this game, slows us both up. Especially when there’s a train coming.

I rather drop a spot, than have the car behind get frustrated. Most of my racecraft come from (V8)Supercars. Those drivers know who they’re racing. Those of us that play often, know who is who. However, last year and now, it’s just been pot luck who I see in my races. The game has been pretty much over for me, once GT7 was announced. No biggies when GT7 opens. New cars, tracks, weather conditions and players. We’ll see what happens.

That's just sad though. Like, not to insult you personally, but for me you are giving up a whole element of racing - defensive driving to keep a quicker car behind. The reason I've always enjoyed Daily Race C the most is because it opens up strategic options, and that may involve getting ahead by running an aggressive first stint and then driving defensively after the stops to the end. And even in shorter races, such situations will always happen here and there. We might as well do time trials if we're not going to race wheel-to-wheel. I would prefer the penalty system of old, and of course any revisions that might upgrade it, over having to hop out of the way to protect myself and give up on proper racing.