F1CE's physics: underrated?

[Cultlife]

The more I've been playing with this game, slowly turning off all the driving aids, the more I realise that without Stability Control etc, the physics in this game are actually really, really good.

The cars are twitchy, the setups actually affect the cars as they should, and if you clip the grass or get your undertray on a curb, you have to struggle not to swap ends.

The force feedback isn't particularly great in feeling turn force, but gives a good feel of turning, and you get all the bumps and rattles from the tarmac through the wheel, as you probably do with such a stiff suspension open wheel setup in real life.


Anyone else slightly impressed by the physics in F1CE, or is it just me being silly?

 

[DaddyVDUB]

The more I play F1CE the more I'm inpressed with it all round. Only had it 2 months but have put in a lot of time on it. Online is great private rooms, make your own race,weather,damage,no RBE effect. Only thing is online with another live player seems if you get too close you wreck. But the physics are great,the grafics good its a more than suitable fill in for GT.👍

 

[Alltidxx]

I didn't know anyone questioned the physics.

 

[Cultlife]

A read through the Codemaster's suggestion board for F109 a couple of months ago gave me the impression that the game wasn't held in very high regard in terms of simulation, often being called very arcadey. Consequentially, when I started playing it again recently it made me study how the cars behave a bit more.

Perhaps I was mistaken, I just think it deserves praise for the fact that it's really very good as a sim racer.

 

[Nicksfix]

Just an awesome game , love the physics.
In our league , I use no aids whatsoever , and it's not that bad.

Dubs said something that is true , online , if you get to close to someone , there is this bubble effect , if ya want to call it that , but on your screen you have plenty of room for racing another person , but by the other persons screen it is as if you hit them , you really have to be carefull with this effect , it got me in trouble a couple of times.Other than that this game is very good.I twill be very interesting to see what codemasters does with this game , I feel it will be tough to top this game , as far as Formula one racing goes.

 

[Biggles]

Coming back to F1:CE after spending a lot of time with GT5P & more recently with Ferrari Challenge confirms for me how brilliantly designed F1:CE really is.

The graphics are excellent - not obsessively perfect like GT5P - just right to create a sense of detail & realism while you're racing. The light effects in Time Trail mode are particularly beautiful - it would be nice if they had a bit less extreme version of this for the actual racing.

Sound is superb - the scream of the F1 engines as the cars shoot past on the replays makes your hair stand-up on end.

AI is not perfect, but it's better than any other PS3 game, making the racing very challenging, but with reasonable gradations of difficulty so that you can work your way into the game. Every race unfolds in a unique & unpredictable way, which can't be said for GT5P offline.

Damage - well, it's not sophisticated damage modelling, but it works perfectly in terms of the gameplay, forcing you to drive carefully as well as fast which adds a degree of realism (& tension) that is totally absent from GT5P in spite of its super-realistic graphics.

Physics - I honestly can't say how "realistic" they are, as I've never had the opportunity to drive an F1 car IRL. The F1:CE cars are certainly challenging to drive & it always feels like there is a true correlation between how you drive through each section of the track & the resulting times. My one complaint is that I would like to feel more sense of "weight" in the FFB to simulate the effects of G forces as you push the car hard through the turns.

 

[Alltidxx]

AI is not perfect, but it's better than any other PS3 game, making the racing very challenging, but with reasonable gradations of difficulty so that you can work your way into the game. Every race unfolds in a unique & unpredictable way, which can't be said for GT5P offline.

I agree with you. I think the main issue with AI is when they are to lap you and during practice and qualification.
When lapping they tend to be too hesitant on the straights even if one goes offline and off throttle. But they can be quite aggressive and are happy to overtake during turns if you go offline (intentionally or not) and that is a serious riskfactor for incidents. For example, at Shanghai, I believe the best place to let AI past is turn 1. They will be happy to dive on the inside if given the slightest room. This goes for turn 4-5 as well but that is a riskier spot. On the straight, you better let them draft you early to overtake if it is to be done smoothly without you having to lose too much time.
The other thing is during practice where they can race you hard and even bump you but if they do get past they suddenly get off-throttle disrupting your lap for sure. That is some seriously weird behaviour. During qualification they can do their hotlap and then shut off (like they should) but two AI cars in close proximity can often go slowly side by side and do a pretty good job att preventing hotlapping cars from setting times.
Otherwise I think it’s pretty good. Yes they do bump me now and then but that is usually because I give them the space to actually attempt something. So long I guard the racingline perfectly or take a defensive line (whatever is the most appropriate), drive fast but smooth and know the hotspots for their overtaking inclinations, they will hold off (Monza chicane, Montreal chicane, Sepang turn 4 e t c). If I go a little wide, they will jump right in and that can often end in tears but hey, I wouldn’t want them not to press on. I’m pretty happy with the AI.

 

[rustymike2]

If this game had audio chat online and the graphics were tightened up, this would be the best sim racer for PS3

 

[DaddyVDUB]

The graphics are good at some tracks like Imola,& just awful at others like Indy. As much as I like all the online features & options, there are some gremlins as well. Like online scoring sometimes goes wacky,lap time scoring,the weird online "force feild" effect where on your screen it appears you have plenty of room but you actually crash other car. I look forward to new 08 version next year hopefully some of this will be corrected.

 

[Ardius]

The graphics are good at some tracks like Imola,& just awful at others like Indy. As much as I like all the online features & options, there are some gremlins as well. Like online scoring sometimes goes wacky,lap time scoring,the weird online "force feild" effect where on your screen it appears you have plenty of room but you actually crash other car. I look forward to new 08 version next year hopefully some of this will be corrected.

New 08 version? Don't you mean the 09 edition that Codemasters are making? I'd be impressed if Sony had decided to use their last year of the license.

I don't have much expectations for the Codemasters effort, I can say with some certainty it won't be as good as F1:CE, seeing as I fully expect them to take advantage of the fact everyone is watching the Hamilton/Raikkonen/Massa/Kubica battle from now on and F1 in general has seemed to greatly rise in popularity around the world again. It would actually be crazy for Codemasters to not take advantage of this and make it more accesible to the non-hardcore.

Anyway, there isn't much wrong with F1:CE really, there are a few bugs and glitches here and there and a couple of things that could have been tweaked but the game has been well designed and is definitely a worthy F1 game. I'd also like to add that the commentary for the game is done very well, its awesome to hear Brundle commenting on battles in the field and reporting their status over the laps or the pit crew informing you of your sector times to the .1 of a second.

 

[rustymike2]

As long as they keep Bob Varsha off of it, it'll be at least worth a look

 

[Biggles]

As far as the graphics are concerned, in general, the "natural" scenery - trees etc. - look great. For example, going around Monza, particularly in TT, is graphically really nice. The "architecture" scenery is less convincing, which is why a track like Indy doesn't look good. And of course, the spectators...

However, all-in-all, the graphics are very good - unlike the GT series, the focus is on the racing rather than the graphics, which is as it should be. PD's obsession with perfect graphics is why we are having to wait 5 or 6 years for GT5.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Yes of course, 09 version I beg your pardon.

 

[Kneedragger]

I think gt5p's physics are distorted-- its like they had to make the traction level really low to compensate for how slow the cars are. The end result is a slow motion feeling thats hard to master, all at the same time. I'm in the Top 3 of the standard physics gt5p leaderboards in London in almost evey car I've used (PSN = RaySirX). The sensation of driving those cars is nearly the same in kind, but just differs in strength.

I'm new to f1ce. With all the aids off it gives an interesting amount of challenge without the stupid need to make something hard just for its own sake. Just so they can claim its more realistic (because the tires lack grip.) F1ce gives a feeling of speed and of racing. I dont ecpect a hell of a lot more than that in a game.

You would ecpect gt5p to have technical advances over f1ce because it came out later. Codemasters version of F1 will have advances over both of those in certain areas, especially over f1ce. In my PC racing days I got lots of direct support from Codemasters for my TOCA2 website. That was a long time ago but Codemasters has the wherewithall to do great things.

 

[Lofasz]

I've been very pleased with the quality of F1CE. From the graphics, to the quality of the AI, to the physics. I agree that there are a few kinks here and there, but overall the game is a blast to play. Thanks to this game, I have a greater knowledge of the majority of current F1 circuits. I don't know many other ways, to get better acquanted with modern F1 tracks. As a result, the game has made watching the real F1 races on TV, much more enjoyable. I get a better idea of what the drivers are seeing, throughout the race.

I really hope the next F1 game, to be made by Codemasters, is as good as F1CE. There isn't any reason why they can't make it as good. They are quite capable, and have a great example to follow. Of course, Codemasters will have the opportunity, to make the game even better, if they choose. In an interview, with Codemasters president recently, he stated that they planned to include a good range of difficulty & realism, to cater to both novices and experienced sim racers alike. As long as he keeps his promise, the forthcoming game should be loads of fun. Especially since the drivers will be up to date, as well as the cars.

Which reminds me. . . does anybody know which F1 season, this next F1 game will be covering? '08 or '09? It would be awesome if they offered both, but unlikely. Between the two, I think I'd preffer '08, but maybe I'll feel different, once more of the '09 cars start to break cover. I'm not terribly enamored with the recent pics I've seen, of the BMW and Williams interim '09 test cars. The slick tires are definatly a plus though.

 

[Biggles]

I think gt5p's physics are distorted-- its like they had to make the traction level really low to compensate for how slow the cars are. The end result is a slow motion feeling thats hard to master, all at the same time. I'm in the Top 3 of the standard physics gt5p leaderboards in London in almost evey car I've used (PSN = RaySirX). The sensation of driving those cars is nearly the same in kind, but just differs in strength.

I'm new to f1ce. With all the aids off it gives an interesting amount of challenge without the stupid need to make something hard just for its own sake. Just so they can claim its more realistic (because the tires lack grip.) F1ce gives a feeling of speed and of racing. I dont ecpect a hell of a lot more than that in a game.

I don't think that's right: I think GT5P pretty accurately models what a car would do IRL if you were driving it that hard. The reason it feels like there is a lack of grip in GT5P is you are taking non-race cars & pushing them to the absolute limit in a way you would never do IRL out of fear of wrecking the car & yourself.

F1 cars, have an almost incomprehensible amount of grip in comparison to road cars. F1CE models this quite well, but I suspect driving an F1 car IRL requires considerably more & skill & finesse, not to mention cojones, than it does in F1CE. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

However, I agree that F1CE does a great job of conveying the speed & thrills of extreme high-speed racing without "dumbing it down" too much.

 

[Kneedragger]

That was a great link, I never saw that before. Wow! Puts a lot of perspective on things.

My gripe with grip in gt5p is simple. I can give you many specific examples you can try for yourself, but in a nutshell, its possible to have the back end come around on you when driving a medium power car at average revs and at lowish speeds going around average corners. Its as if the physics only make sense if you are trying to go fast. If you just slow down and observe the behavior as a test, in my experience the cars will still react with a cartoonish looseness from the rear end.

Beyond that theres a strong feeling of gliding, as if you were piloting a snowmobile rather than a car.
But my main issue is that a medium powered car has the back end coming around at average revs and speed around a normal corner. You can observe this if you stop trying to go fast and just experiment with cornering behavior. Driven at a non-race level the physics go all to hell. And that same character is just compounded as you DO go faster. So I question the central accuracy of the entire thing.

Normally when you have success with a game you tend to applaud its virtues. And I would be considered a really fast standard physics gt5p driver. But I still think the dynamics are artificial.

 

[Biggles]

That was a great link, I never saw that before. Wow! Puts a lot of perspective on things.

My gripe with grip in gt5p is simple. I can give you many specific examples you can try for yourself, but in a nutshell, its possible to have the back end come around on you when driving a medium power car at average revs and at lowish speeds going around average corners. Its as if the physics only make sense if you are trying to go fast. If you just slow down and observe the behavior as a test, in my experience the cars will still react with a cartoonish looseness from the rear end.

Beyond that theres a strong feeling of gliding, as if you were piloting a snowmobile rather than a car.
But my main issue is that a medium powered car has the back end coming around at average revs and speed around a normal corner. You can observe this if you stop trying to go fast and just experiment with cornering behavior. Driven at a non-race level the physics go all to hell. And that same character is just compounded as you DO go faster. So I question the central accuracy of the entire thing.

Normally when you have success with a game you tend to applaud its virtues. And I would be considered a really fast standard physics gt5p driver. But I still think the dynamics are artificial.

I don't know how to respond to this. If you're driving on "Standard" & you feel the physics are too twitchy, you're really going to be unhappy when you drive with "Simulation" physics (or "Professional" - I can't remember what it's called) & no aids! If you've become used to GT4 physics & see them as the "norm" this is understandable, but, in fact, GT4 physics were hopelessly simplified. (Try driving a powerful FR or MR car - the Cobra for example - in Enthusia, & then tell me if you still think GT5P is too "loose"!)

I think GT5P's physics are probably pretty true-to-life, but the "snowmobile" thing I agree with: there is absolutely no modelling of road textures, bumps or irregularities in GT5P (other than the rumble strips). Hopefully this will change with GT5.

 

[Ardius]

That was a great link, I never saw that before. Wow! Puts a lot of perspective on things.

My gripe with grip in gt5p is simple. I can give you many specific examples you can try for yourself, but in a nutshell, its possible to have the back end come around on you when driving a medium power car at average revs and at lowish speeds going around average corners. Its as if the physics only make sense if you are trying to go fast. If you just slow down and observe the behavior as a test, in my experience the cars will still react with a cartoonish looseness from the rear end.

Beyond that theres a strong feeling of gliding, as if you were piloting a snowmobile rather than a car.
But my main issue is that a medium powered car has the back end coming around at average revs and speed around a normal corner. You can observe this if you stop trying to go fast and just experiment with cornering behavior. Driven at a non-race level the physics go all to hell. And that same character is just compounded as you DO go faster. So I question the central accuracy of the entire thing.

Normally when you have success with a game you tend to applaud its virtues. And I would be considered a really fast standard physics gt5p driver. But I still think the dynamics are artificial.

Standard physics? How is that an accurate test of GT5's physics? You should be using Professional if you want to truly test its physics engine, and if you're complaining about a "cartoonish back-end" in standard physics, you have no idea what it gets like in Pro physics.
Overall, I'd say GT5's physics are the most realistic I've tried in any racing game with low speed cars. The game is perfect for any of the road cars, its when you get to the race cars it sort of feels a bit off, but seeing as most of us have never driven these race cars, its not something I can really comment on as being unrealistic or not.
I will agree though that the F2007 doesn't drive like I think it would compared to the F2006 in F1:CE, which is more what I'd think it would be like. However, I think that may be an issue with the scaling, because the actual models and tracks in F1:CE seem to be drawn to a larger scale compared to GT5, where it seems smaller and more dramatic.

 

[Kneedragger]

I'm not trying to win an argument here. But real cars do not slew around at slow speeds like they do in gt5p. And yes, thats even more true for so-called pro mode. But why you arent interested in seeing that for yourself is your deal.. its fine by me. Just hop in one of the true sports cars in London and watch the rear end come around at a steady 43mph, at low revs, just by cutting the wheel for a corner (and NOT trying to correct by counter steering.) The tires skid and the back just loops out. At 43mph in the dry. Its stupid.

Some guys just adore difficulty. Its why the Rubriks Cube was so popular. Its why some people will tune all the parameters of the Suzuki Cappucino in gt5p to make it less slow. They dont care! They just want and crave a challenge. And I'm not judging such people. Gt5p doesnt twitch; it slews and slides like mad. Is it a challenge? YES.

 

[Biggles]

I'm not trying to win an argument here. But real cars do not slew around at slow speeds like they do in gt5p. And yes, thats even more true for so-called pro mode. But why you arent interested in seeing that for yourself is your deal.. its fine by me. Just hop in one of the true sports cars in London and watch the rear end come around at a steady 43mph, at low revs, just by cutting the wheel for a corner (and NOT trying to correct by counter steering.) The tires skid and the back just loops out. At 43mph in the dry. Its stupid.

Some guys just adore difficulty. Its why the Rubriks Cube was so popular. Its why some people will tune all the parameters of the Suzuki Cappucino in gt5p to make it less slow. They dont care! They just want and crave a challenge. And I'm not judging such people. Gt5p doesnt twitch; it slews and slides like mad. Is it a challenge? YES.

It's not that GT5P makes it more difficult than IRL, I think the reality is that most games (including GT4) make it much easier than it is IRL & many gamers have got used to that standard.

If you don't believe anyone here, I have a simple suggestion: try taking a sharp corner at 43 mph IRL in your car & tell me how you get on...

 

[Kneedragger]

That first sentence is a good reply :-)

I'm going to abandon ship on this issue because, for one thing, gt5p has many great qualities. I especially like it that it conveys a real love of the car and sports driving. The displays of the current car are like car porn, and its great to see. Too many games neglect letting you admire the hardware. In fact imagine if some of the main menu displays showed the cars with the hood up and the doors open?? Wouldnt that be cool? Anyways Kazunori Yamauchi deserves gigantic credit for his vision, and seeing as he's probably stinking rich by now I guess he's gotten at least some of his credit !

I'll be preordering GT5 when the time comes just like millions of others, so dont get me wrong. If nothing else I'll be cutting a swath in standard just for kicks. And for the car porn.

 

[red7]

I'm not trying to win an argument here. But real cars do not slew around at slow speeds like they do in gt5p. And yes, thats even more true for so-called pro mode. But why you arent interested in seeing that for yourself is your deal.. its fine by me. Just hop in one of the true sports cars in London and watch the rear end come around at a steady 43mph, at low revs, just by cutting the wheel for a corner (and NOT trying to correct by counter steering.) The tires skid and the back just loops out. At 43mph in the dry. Its stupid.

Some guys just adore difficulty. Its why the Rubriks Cube was so popular. Its why some people will tune all the parameters of the Suzuki Cappucino in gt5p to make it less slow. They dont care! They just want and crave a challenge. And I'm not judging such people. Gt5p doesnt twitch; it slews and slides like mad. Is it a challenge? YES.

Sometimes, with some cars the physics feel pretty good, but more often I have to agree with you here that they can be pretty damn off. It's like they can't seem to get away from the gt4 DNA or something.


On topic, yes I would have to say that I underrated f1ce when first trying it out. It took me a week or so of play before I noticed subtle little twitches and weight transfers, I'm quite occupied with this game now. BTW the engine sounds at 17 or18,000 rpm is fantastic!

 

[Nicksfix]

BTW the engine sounds at 17 or18,000 rpm is fantastic!

Especially when you have a surround sound system , it's killer !!!

 

[Alltidxx]

Found an old 10-page interview linked in GTPformus during E3 in LA where F106 and F1:CE where showed off and talked about. We all know some of the things talked about never made it to the final game but it is really interesting to read about the thoughts the developers had at the time, how dedicated Studio Liverpool were and how well informed they really were about small features that matter. For example, your performance in careermode testdrivning has an effect on how the team performs. Who knew that? They aimed for as much sim as possible and I think they did really well in the end with the physics. I found it a great read!
http://www.f1gamers.com/f1/apanel/view_articles.php?id=130

 

[Obli]

Hey guys! I have always been tempted by this game but when I played the demo that was released at around the launch for the UK PS3, I was disappointed. Even turning off all aids, the handling felt very 'arcadey' to me. Not a patch on Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix 4.

Is anyone able to tell me if there are any differences between the demo of F1:CE and the full release? Are there any differences in handling between the games? Perhaps for some reason the demo was limited to an arcade style handling even though I set everything to Pro / aids off.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Were you using a pad or wheel when playing it? I believe the only thing missing is the good Force feedback thru the wheel. With the controller the physics are limited to begin with. Must remember at the time F1CE was developed F1 irl had so much TC on the cars it was either all the way on throttle or on brakes there was no physics in real cars except for G forces of course.

I dont think the game is easy by any means, it is well worth the $20 it would cost new,or get a used copy. The online is really good.

 

[Obli]

I was using a pad (with analogue).

I think I'm hoping that someone will say 'the physics in the full game are different to the demo, and more sim-like' because I was really disappointed with the feel of the handling in the demo (with pro settings / aids off). I know F1 cars have a lot of grip but the cars felt like they were on rails, and would spin out very suddenly. I think also as I couldn't light up the rear wheels (with TC off), that was something else I thought was poor.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Hmmm sounds like the demo is a little different because you really can light up the rears with TC off in the game. Come out of a turn and get all happy with the throttle and the smoke will roll and the revvs go wild.

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

I was using a pad (with analogue).

I think I'm hoping that someone will say 'the physics in the full game are different to the demo, and more sim-like' because I was really disappointed with the feel of the handling in the demo (with pro settings / aids off). I know F1 cars have a lot of grip but the cars felt like they were on rails, and would spin out very suddenly. I think also as I couldn't light up the rear wheels (with TC off), that was something else I thought was poor.

I'm not sure if the game will ever have the realism you're looking for. But i remember playing the demo and it felt different, kind of like playing online with all the cars being set up in the same way, very understeery. That said f1 cars being on rails and then being able to spin out very suddenly does sound quite realistic to me.