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- United Kingdom
Fanatec Load Cell is not what I expected
- Thread starter R55NA
- 80 comments
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- Deadlights with Pennywise and the Balloons
- naughty_teddy1
How did it go mate? Started setting up my stand, with gt Pro dd wheel/peddles last night. Also upgraded to the load cell, but wondering if worth using it or sticking with the standard brake pedal instead.
No muscle memory to detrain as such as this is my first setup in 10 years or so.
But first impressions are that tge load cell seems insanely stiff/resistant. But understand it reads pressure rather than distance.
In two minds if to bother using load cell??
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
- 1,361
- Deadlights with Pennywise and the Balloons
- naughty_teddy1
Cheers niknak (very amusing profile pic name BTW
).I'm pretty clueless/unhandy, so concerned I may break it doing that, or get stuck in 'no mans land' with both peddles not working correctly...
May give them both a go. Did you find standard brake pedal OK, or too floppy?
I'm not overly particularly in all honesty, so will probably be happy using standard peddle in its original form v risk of messing up both peddles and having to buy another one.
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
I found the first pedal too floppy, but I was able to modulate it better than the zero travel of the LC. I completely understand your reticence to mod it. I was exactly the same and was very anxious about it; I’m hopeless at that sort of thing. But it was a nothing to lose sort of thing after two days of frustration. I knew worst case I could easily put the old pedal back and returning the LC I knew was going to be more stressful than trying to fix it. Fanatec could barely send it to me without endless issues, sending it back with all the return fees and dealing with their hopeless communication I’d rather swallow the loss tbh.Cheers niknak (very amusing profile pic name BTW
I'm pretty clueless/unhandy, so concerned I may break it doing that, or get stuck in 'no mans land' with both peddles not working correctly...
May give them both a go. Did you find standard brake pedal OK, or too floppy?
I'm not overly particularly in all honesty, so will probably be happy using standard peddle in its original form v risk of messing up both peddles and having to buy another one.
The mod was incredibly easy honestly. I did it with just my hands. Getting it out was easy, getting it back in was harder but only because I didn’t know how to best do it, now I know I’d have no issue doing it again if needed. Let me know if you want to try and I’ll help you with a little step by step
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- 321
- Nantwich
- theiceman1
- 1,361
- Deadlights with Pennywise and the Balloons
- naughty_teddy1
Thanks mate, good of you to offer 👍
- 388
- England
- Abarth_71
The hybrid is 1 linear + 1 progressive elastomer. You can use one of them or both (hybrid) depending on preference.Which one out of interest... appears several options for this mod? Does it come with instructions and assume easy for non handy types
No instructions with them but I've linked a vid below, it's really easy to fit.
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Scaff
Moderator
- 29,438
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
OK a couple of things here that I think might need clearing up, as they seem to be getting mixed up.
The rating of your load cell and the distance you pedals travel are not the same.
My T-LCM pedals have a 100kg load cell and that's always going to be the maximum load it can detect, that's all in means. Thrustmaster actually then do a good job of supplying a wide range of springs of varying resistance to allow you to vary the degree of travel you get with the pedal, as well as metal spacers to gradually remove pre-load from the pedal:
Mod kits also allow you to swap these out with elastomer to make them even harder.
Now even with the two F30 springs and the pre-load spacers in place, I can fully compress the pedals and still have headroom on the loadcell (not a great deal), but even with zero travel left, pressing on the pedal more will still register, as the load cell works on load not travel distance. The software can then be used to either cap the braking to 100% at the end of pedal travel or at a point beyond that where no travel remains, just additional pressure.
If I go full hulk with elastomer mods I can quite literally eliminate all pedal travel, but the load cell will still register the pressure on it, how much is needed is then down to the software side of things.
If I wanted a 'road car' feel, then I'd go for zero pre-load spacers (so max preload) with a small deadzone in the software profile, and most likely mix the white and grey springs, but I would still set the max braking force beyond full pedal travel (as even in road cars your pedal is effectively solid at maximum braking pressure).
However I prefer a more 'race car' feel to my pedals and opt for a mix of the Red F30 with an elastomer (actually 88A Skateboard bushes) set-up and zero preload (all the spacers in) and zero software deadzone, which give me around 4cm of travel before pressure becomes the main factor, as I find I can modulate much better with pressure based on real world experience.
As such it important to remember that setting up a set of loadcell pedals is about the balance between pre-load, travel distance and total load applied, get all three right for yourself and it's great (and pretty damn accurate to reality), but if it's wrong for you, it feels very, very alien.
For reference an F1 car circa 2014 had travel in the region of 3 to 4 cm (it varied from driver to driver) and a total pressure to fully depress of around 140kgs
The rating of your load cell and the distance you pedals travel are not the same.
My T-LCM pedals have a 100kg load cell and that's always going to be the maximum load it can detect, that's all in means. Thrustmaster actually then do a good job of supplying a wide range of springs of varying resistance to allow you to vary the degree of travel you get with the pedal, as well as metal spacers to gradually remove pre-load from the pedal:
Mod kits also allow you to swap these out with elastomer to make them even harder.
Now even with the two F30 springs and the pre-load spacers in place, I can fully compress the pedals and still have headroom on the loadcell (not a great deal), but even with zero travel left, pressing on the pedal more will still register, as the load cell works on load not travel distance. The software can then be used to either cap the braking to 100% at the end of pedal travel or at a point beyond that where no travel remains, just additional pressure.
If I go full hulk with elastomer mods I can quite literally eliminate all pedal travel, but the load cell will still register the pressure on it, how much is needed is then down to the software side of things.
If I wanted a 'road car' feel, then I'd go for zero pre-load spacers (so max preload) with a small deadzone in the software profile, and most likely mix the white and grey springs, but I would still set the max braking force beyond full pedal travel (as even in road cars your pedal is effectively solid at maximum braking pressure).
However I prefer a more 'race car' feel to my pedals and opt for a mix of the Red F30 with an elastomer (actually 88A Skateboard bushes) set-up and zero preload (all the spacers in) and zero software deadzone, which give me around 4cm of travel before pressure becomes the main factor, as I find I can modulate much better with pressure based on real world experience.
As such it important to remember that setting up a set of loadcell pedals is about the balance between pre-load, travel distance and total load applied, get all three right for yourself and it's great (and pretty damn accurate to reality), but if it's wrong for you, it feels very, very alien.
For reference an F1 car circa 2014 had travel in the region of 3 to 4 cm (it varied from driver to driver) and a total pressure to fully depress of around 140kgs
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- 224
- United States
A few things about loadcell setup and rambling because I tend to on occasion. In between the words if any of it helps new users awesome.
Personaly I use V3 pedals and prefer something a little lighter because I spent too many years standing at trade shows and my feet aren't great. Yay for getting old.
Many people are fast with travel based pedals but the allure of load cells offer more consistency and control if set up correctly. In the end there is no blanket setting. Itcomes down to user preference and what works for you.
Your pedals need to be firmly mounted, brake pedal square to your hip so your pushing straight.
Depending on your rig you want the pedals angled as close to 90 degrees and as high as you can comfortably get. Also try to get high up on the pedal as possible using shoes and raising the pedal faces. Also the plastic CSL faces leave a bit to be desired. I prefer a flat surface to distribute load better.
The main idea is to push straight out as possible in order to maximize body mechanics and force. If your body raises, chassis flexes, or your back pushes back into the seat it will require more force to brake properly, you will be late on the brake, and you will waist energy.
Travel and sensitivity take some time but the benefits are there. If your coming from travel based pedals you are probably using your angle too much. Best results are using your whole legal and allow more precise modulation.
When braking I push with my thigh to max braking while holding it tense until the trail braking moment. At the point of lift off I relax my thigh muscle before I start to lift off with my ankle.
Initiating of the brake should be similar to a clutch and is very important. Think of it like your heel is the pivot point and your pushing your foot with your thigh and calf muscle. Shoes can also help. I wear a pair of Speedo water / climbing shoes I scored for 30 bucks that work very well.
Just pushing in and using your angle to modulate into trail braking will cause too much lift off. Relaxing my thigh puts me about 50 percent braking.
For fanatec users the BRF setting will set your upper travel limit as well as how fast brake is applied. 50 is pretty much 1 to 1 force applied. dropping this value will require less and also make max travel to 100 percent braking shorter.
When setting up mine I like my threshold to just about hit the ABS so i have to apply more than my typical pressure to hit 100 percent. Then I bring down the BRF to bring trailbraking pressures to an acceptable level.
With these methods in clean air and no mistakes my lap times differ between .1 to .3 until fatigue sets in.
Hope this helps.
Personaly I use V3 pedals and prefer something a little lighter because I spent too many years standing at trade shows and my feet aren't great. Yay for getting old.
Many people are fast with travel based pedals but the allure of load cells offer more consistency and control if set up correctly. In the end there is no blanket setting. Itcomes down to user preference and what works for you.
Your pedals need to be firmly mounted, brake pedal square to your hip so your pushing straight.
Depending on your rig you want the pedals angled as close to 90 degrees and as high as you can comfortably get. Also try to get high up on the pedal as possible using shoes and raising the pedal faces. Also the plastic CSL faces leave a bit to be desired. I prefer a flat surface to distribute load better.
The main idea is to push straight out as possible in order to maximize body mechanics and force. If your body raises, chassis flexes, or your back pushes back into the seat it will require more force to brake properly, you will be late on the brake, and you will waist energy.
Travel and sensitivity take some time but the benefits are there. If your coming from travel based pedals you are probably using your angle too much. Best results are using your whole legal and allow more precise modulation.
When braking I push with my thigh to max braking while holding it tense until the trail braking moment. At the point of lift off I relax my thigh muscle before I start to lift off with my ankle.
Initiating of the brake should be similar to a clutch and is very important. Think of it like your heel is the pivot point and your pushing your foot with your thigh and calf muscle. Shoes can also help. I wear a pair of Speedo water / climbing shoes I scored for 30 bucks that work very well.
Just pushing in and using your angle to modulate into trail braking will cause too much lift off. Relaxing my thigh puts me about 50 percent braking.
For fanatec users the BRF setting will set your upper travel limit as well as how fast brake is applied. 50 is pretty much 1 to 1 force applied. dropping this value will require less and also make max travel to 100 percent braking shorter.
When setting up mine I like my threshold to just about hit the ABS so i have to apply more than my typical pressure to hit 100 percent. Then I bring down the BRF to bring trailbraking pressures to an acceptable level.
With these methods in clean air and no mistakes my lap times differ between .1 to .3 until fatigue sets in.
Hope this helps.
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- United Kingdom
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- United States
That's about where you need to be. You can offset the throttle to the right if it's comfortable but brake square to hip.
I try to keep my butt level in the seat and pay attention to my lower spine ensuring I'm not leaning to one side. For as much time as we spend in seat it helps eliminate repetitious injuries. I even spaced my pedals with washers to tweak it more.
- 727
- San Jose, CA
- GTP_Strop
Understand that a pedal that has braking force proportional to travel is not how any real brake works. People are only used to that because that's how lower end sim racing setups work. If you understand how hydraulic disc brakes work, the rotors and pads are typically metal or ceramic and no amount of force is going to either compress the pad or push it further into the rotor. There is a small amount of travel to allow the pad to sit off the rotor when not braking but this is typically adjusted to a minimum to allow faster response to braking input. After that any further extension is going to be due to flex in the mounting and compression of fluid or trapped air in the hydraulic lines, all of which of which are considered highly undesirable in a performance car and is the reason people use braided brake hoses, expensive fluid and reinforced mounting.
I used a T500RS setup with a Ricmotech Load Cell for many years and it didn't really work that well for Gran Turismo because of the lack of adjustment. The problem is that GT sets the braking force based on what it sees from the pedal. This means that initially the brake force required to reach max braking is reasonable but gradually increases as the race goes on, making any calibration for braking points and forces incredibly difficult. The Ricmotech requires 100Kg of force to reach full braking (almost double the Fanatec at 100%) so even as a weightlifter with fairly big legs I found it hard to reach max force. I also never attached the pedal set to my rig, it was just pushed up against the backstop and that's a mistake, any load cell, even the Fanatec, needs to be securely mounted.
My Fanatec setup works much better. Firstly as I already do enough leg training I've set the braking force to 50% and attached the pedal base securely to my rig with 5 M6 Bolts. I also upgraded my rig to an NLR GTrack which is much stiffer than my old rig. The Fanatec is nicely engineered and has virtually zero dead travel, compared to the Ricmotech/Thrustmaster which had quite a lot. The fact that you can adjust the braking force either from the wheel or through a PC/USB connection is a huge benefit and what I really needed with the Ricmotech.
The last question is does it make you faster. In my case absolutely yes. Since my Thrustmaster didn't work with GT7 and Fanatec were waiting for the Load Cell to come in stock, I was using a Logitech G923 to go through the license tests. The rally car test at Fisherman's Wharf had me stumped and even after a couple of hours trying I couldn't seem to get any consistency and was barely beating the Bronze time. After setting up the Fanatec (CSL DD GT Pro Premium Bundle with Metal Faceplates) I decided to go back and have another go. First two tries I got high Silver times, third try I beat the Gold time by half a second. I felt so much more in control of the car, it's lines and the braking and was able to learn the handling of the car much more quickly.
I used a T500RS setup with a Ricmotech Load Cell for many years and it didn't really work that well for Gran Turismo because of the lack of adjustment. The problem is that GT sets the braking force based on what it sees from the pedal. This means that initially the brake force required to reach max braking is reasonable but gradually increases as the race goes on, making any calibration for braking points and forces incredibly difficult. The Ricmotech requires 100Kg of force to reach full braking (almost double the Fanatec at 100%) so even as a weightlifter with fairly big legs I found it hard to reach max force. I also never attached the pedal set to my rig, it was just pushed up against the backstop and that's a mistake, any load cell, even the Fanatec, needs to be securely mounted.
My Fanatec setup works much better. Firstly as I already do enough leg training I've set the braking force to 50% and attached the pedal base securely to my rig with 5 M6 Bolts. I also upgraded my rig to an NLR GTrack which is much stiffer than my old rig. The Fanatec is nicely engineered and has virtually zero dead travel, compared to the Ricmotech/Thrustmaster which had quite a lot. The fact that you can adjust the braking force either from the wheel or through a PC/USB connection is a huge benefit and what I really needed with the Ricmotech.
The last question is does it make you faster. In my case absolutely yes. Since my Thrustmaster didn't work with GT7 and Fanatec were waiting for the Load Cell to come in stock, I was using a Logitech G923 to go through the license tests. The rally car test at Fisherman's Wharf had me stumped and even after a couple of hours trying I couldn't seem to get any consistency and was barely beating the Bronze time. After setting up the Fanatec (CSL DD GT Pro Premium Bundle with Metal Faceplates) I decided to go back and have another go. First two tries I got high Silver times, third try I beat the Gold time by half a second. I felt so much more in control of the car, it's lines and the braking and was able to learn the handling of the car much more quickly.
- 1,361
- Deadlights with Pennywise and the Balloons
- naughty_teddy1
Well it's not working as expected for me, sadly. Set up the standard pedals earlier... worked perfectly.
I then removed the brake and installed the load cell. Load cell worked fine, but throttle not registering. Hooked it up to pc, updated pedals firmware. Noticed there was no response with the throttle under pedals -manual configuration mode.
Played around with cables, double, triple, quadruple and more confirming cables inserted correctly... zero response from throttle within the app and gt7.
Removed load cell and went back to original brake setup. Same issue, no response at all from throttle.
Googling around, appears a relatively common issue. Usually ends up with fanatec sending out new peddles.
Appears some weakness with potentiator in the throttle, that can be triggered/exposed by the load cell.
Really disappointing/frustrating, as was enjoying using the wheel and original pedal setup. I'll contact fanatec tomorrow, hopefully won't be too drawn out...
I then removed the brake and installed the load cell. Load cell worked fine, but throttle not registering. Hooked it up to pc, updated pedals firmware. Noticed there was no response with the throttle under pedals -manual configuration mode.
Played around with cables, double, triple, quadruple and more confirming cables inserted correctly... zero response from throttle within the app and gt7.
Removed load cell and went back to original brake setup. Same issue, no response at all from throttle.
Googling around, appears a relatively common issue. Usually ends up with fanatec sending out new peddles.
Appears some weakness with potentiator in the throttle, that can be triggered/exposed by the load cell.
Really disappointing/frustrating, as was enjoying using the wheel and original pedal setup. I'll contact fanatec tomorrow, hopefully won't be too drawn out...
PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,452
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
The Fanatec Load Cells are a great piece of Kit.
I‘d never want to go back to distance based Brake Pedals.
Yes, the accommodations Period time might take more or less time, but once it has clicked, you’ll never want to go back.
Like many others here already mentioned, it’s all about adapting.
Finding a comfortable Seating Position and therefore a Comfortable Brake Pedal Operation is crucial to get the most out of a Load Cell.
@FA_Hayes already explained it pretty much spot on.
In my opinion the most important thing is to find an optimal Seating Position to only use the Muscle that’s necessary to operate the Load Cell.
If you sit wrong, you’re not going to benefit from a Load Cell.
You‘re going to use the wrong Muscles, a cramped Braking Position and hence not feel the ultimate Benefits a load cell has to offer.
Before I made the switch to the CSL Load Cells, I used the Thrustmaster T-LCM Pedals.
They offered variable Travel Distance depending on your selected Springs/Washers to eliminate the Pre load.
They felt very good and somewhat more next to what an actual daily drive Street Car Brake Pedal feels like.
You had the best of two Worlds, Variable travel distance paired with the benefits of pressure based Brake Force.
On the other Hand, when I made the switch to the CSL Load Cells 2 weeks ago, it was a completely different experience.
Although I was used to the pressure based braking Method, it felt different.
Mainly because of its very short, very hard Brake Pedal Feel.
At first I thought no way, this thing is too firm, what the f…😅
But Boy was I wrong.
It’s so good that I wouldn’t go back to the TLCMs‘
It’s ALL about Muscle Memory.
Once you adapt, you’ll never go back
I‘d never want to go back to distance based Brake Pedals.
Yes, the accommodations Period time might take more or less time, but once it has clicked, you’ll never want to go back.
Like many others here already mentioned, it’s all about adapting.
Finding a comfortable Seating Position and therefore a Comfortable Brake Pedal Operation is crucial to get the most out of a Load Cell.
@FA_Hayes already explained it pretty much spot on.
In my opinion the most important thing is to find an optimal Seating Position to only use the Muscle that’s necessary to operate the Load Cell.
If you sit wrong, you’re not going to benefit from a Load Cell.
You‘re going to use the wrong Muscles, a cramped Braking Position and hence not feel the ultimate Benefits a load cell has to offer.
Before I made the switch to the CSL Load Cells, I used the Thrustmaster T-LCM Pedals.
They offered variable Travel Distance depending on your selected Springs/Washers to eliminate the Pre load.
They felt very good and somewhat more next to what an actual daily drive Street Car Brake Pedal feels like.
You had the best of two Worlds, Variable travel distance paired with the benefits of pressure based Brake Force.
On the other Hand, when I made the switch to the CSL Load Cells 2 weeks ago, it was a completely different experience.
Although I was used to the pressure based braking Method, it felt different.
Mainly because of its very short, very hard Brake Pedal Feel.
At first I thought no way, this thing is too firm, what the f…😅
But Boy was I wrong.
It’s so good that I wouldn’t go back to the TLCMs‘
It’s ALL about Muscle Memory.
Once you adapt, you’ll never go back
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- 224
- United States
@PirovacBoy
Good stuff. I actually have a CSL set as back up if my V3's fail and I'm thinking about grabbing the loadcell to try out.
The V3's are nice but as with the CSL set I'm not a fan of dual purpose geometry with sets designed to also work on the floor or saloon positions.
Later this year I'll be going with a set if HV pedals when I do the PC upgrade. Ugh, I can't wait. I'm all excited like a school girl for a new driving position and very proper geometry.
Good stuff. I actually have a CSL set as back up if my V3's fail and I'm thinking about grabbing the loadcell to try out.
The V3's are nice but as with the CSL set I'm not a fan of dual purpose geometry with sets designed to also work on the floor or saloon positions.
Later this year I'll be going with a set if HV pedals when I do the PC upgrade. Ugh, I can't wait. I'm all excited like a school girl for a new driving position and very proper geometry.
PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,452
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
I really celebrate this Guy.
What he’s saying is so true.
Fix your Body Position 😅
Best Man 🙌
What he’s saying is so true.
Fix your Body Position 😅
Best Man 🙌
- 125
- United Kingdom
Finally got to set mine up. (Dd pro CSL pedals) Didn't switch it on till needed to update all the drivers. Took some doing as had to restart laptop few times. Once everything updated had a play. No FFb on ACC but heard you need to start game up after switching wheel on. LC brake pedal wise. Cracking piece of kit. Was able to brake later than with my 3drap modded G29, which has a hard pedal. It is down to muscle memory rather than travel. I used to have to push really hard on G29 pedals to get full travel. But the Fanatec is so much better. Am considering trying the 3drap mod, just to see. But definitely miles better. People need give it time. Am impressed. Need to have more time on ACC and GTSport/7. Need a ok at the menu settings yet.
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
I think if I was right foot braking then having no travel might work but with left foot I just don’t have the dexterity. I can see why it can work for some but not others. Fanatec should include some adjustment
- 125
- United Kingdom
I left foot brake myself, it takes time to learn left foot braking. Wouldn't say could learn it in an hour or 2. It takes time to learn the feel of it. I'm no pro (B rating in GTSport) but the LC even less than an hour on it last night I could tell the difference. The resistance helps me know when I'm close to 100% on pedal where as the G29 I'd have to keep checking the brake data on screen. Thinking I'm 90-100% when I was more 70%. Some prefer a light pedal, but having the higher force helps me gauge how much I'm braking. (Muscle memory) but it is down to personal preference. But I must had left foot braking & trail braking has improved my lap times once I started to learn it.
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