FCA & PSA 50/50 Merger Agreement

[MOPARbarrett5]

As of about a day ago Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) and PSA Groupe have agreed on an equal merger of the companies worth around $50Billion. This makes the new alliance the fourth largest automotive group in the world.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29655638/fiat-chrysler-psa-peugeot-citroen-merger-cars/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...-looks-less-certain-after-initial-excitement/

To me this deal looks good on paper. Chrysler can farther expand in Europe and gain better technology for electric vehicles while Peugeot can come back to the North American market. Though given Fiat has not sold many units of late in the US, I don't see Peugeot doing much better. It might be more successful to bring Opel back to NA instead since they've been more successful with PSA than GM.
I also don't see this working overseas with Dodge because I can't help but think back to the merger with Mercedes and how once Chrysler and Dodge took sales away from Mercedes, Mercedes gave less resources to them. I don't see anything stopping Peugeot from doing the same thing.
Hopefully I'm wrong though, PSA helped revitalize Opel and Vauxhall so maybe working with a company that is quite successful from the start will bring even greater rewards.

 

[JohnBM01]

Originally, I was thinking this could mean America gets some of Peugeot's handsome automobiles. This is a pretty big deal no matter how you look at it. It could probably go MUCH more than simply electric vehicles and autonomous automobiles. We'll see what all this 50-50 merger has to offer in the coming years.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

It's hard to get excited about mergers when it pretty much always means further homogenization of the market.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Chrysler can farther expand in Europe and gain better technology for electric vehicles while Peugeot can come back to the North American market.

That's if they pitch it that way... it may be that each brand concentrates on its natural markets while avoiding competitive crossover, albeit using standardised platforms and powerplants.

 

[VXR]

PSA will rue they day when they get involved with Chrysler. What a pointless brand. Might as well keep Dodge and Jeep for sports and activities, but Chrysler is an absolute nothing to Europeans.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Chrysler build quality, Italian reliability, and French work ethic. My God, it's the Holy Trinity!

 

[homeforsummer]

It's hard to get excited about mergers when it pretty much always means further homogenization of the market.

I was going to write about this in the Alfa GTV thread, but it seems more appropriate here. The merger does make me wonder what might emerge from all those companies working together.

They're sure to spin more stuff off the Peugeot 208's EMP1 platform - it's fairly sophisticated and lightweight, and given small cars are difficult to make a profit from PSAFCA (or whatever they end up calling it) will want to utilise it as broadly as possible.

The most logical spin-off is a new Fiat Punto, since the outgoing one is absolutely ancient. The next most logical is either a new Alfa Romeo Mito or Lancia small car - the existing Ypsilon sells remarkably well in mainland Europe though the EMP1 platform is technically a class size above the current Ypsilon. Either way, it'd give either company a chance to dip back into the Euro B-segment with a new and competitive platform ready-made for electrification. And for crossovers - as well as the Peugeot 208, the Vauxhall/Opel Corsa and presumably the future Citroen C3, the DS3 Crossback already exists on this platform.

Then there's the EMP2 platform, which is also fairly sophisticated and lightweight for its class, used for cars like the current 308, 508, a bunch of vans... The vans would be a logical option for smaller vehicles in the RAM portfolio, and while it's difficult to see anyone needing a sedan like the 508, however nice it is (given that market is shrinking - though it'd make a Chrysler 200 or Avenger far better than those have ever been before...) that platform does also support a bunch of crossovers.

Would be an obvious choice for Fiat (next 500X), perhaps even for Alfa (as a crossover, but EMP2 would also suit a new Giulietta), probably for Jeep. Again, electrification is built into the platform, so anyone who uses it can instantly have access to a bunch of hybrids and EVs.

The curious thing is whether the group does anything with Alfa Romeo's Giorgio platform, on which the Giulia and Stelvio sit, other than the crossovers that are already coming. I'd have thought the Chrysler arm would already have done something with it, but given they haven't, where are the economies of scale in that? Peugeot/Citroen have no real rear-drive or AWD heritage that such a platform would be important, and for Vauxhall/Opel the PSA platforms make more sense from a volume perspective. A new Quadrifoglio-based Lotus Carlton would be fun, but it seems fairly unlikely...

Anyway, I'm not so worried about homogenisation as most of the brands now working together have such distinctly different images (whatever you think of FCA or PSA individually, brands like Alfa Romeo, Jeep and Citroen have pretty incredible heritage and diversity), and I'm more just intrigued to see what results.

 

[mustafur]

The mega merger of unreliable crap.

 

[Fastcarguy]

PSA will rue they day when they get involved with Chrysler. What a pointless brand. Might as well keep Dodge and Jeep for sports and activities, but Chrysler is an absolute nothing to Europeans.

To be fair, Chrysler doesnt really bring much to America either as a brand. Theres the 300 and 3 different versions of the same minivan. I think the only reason the name hasn't gone the way of Pontiac and Mercury is that those brands were divisions of GM and Ford, not the parent company. Unless they were going to rebrand to Fiat Dodge Automobiles and change dealership logos and signs across the country they have to keep the Chrysler name alive

 

[MIE1992]

To be fair, Chrysler doesnt really bring much to America either as a brand. Theres the 300 and 3 different versions of the same minivan. I think the only reason the name hasn't gone the way of Pontiac and Mercury is that those brands were divisions of GM and Ford, not the parent company. Unless they were going to rebrand to Fiat Dodge Automobiles and change dealership logos and signs across the country they have to keep the Chrysler name alive

I'd imagine there's something they can do to swap around Chrysler's and Dodge's respective positions within FCA, since I think the only Chrysler worth anyone's salt is the Crossfire, and maybe the 300C. I'd say that even Oldsmobile and Plymouth had more interesting models. I mean, it feels like Dodge has more covered niches than Chrysler, between the variety of their models. In comparison, Chrysler feels like it's vestigial.

 

[CTznOfTime]

PSA + FCA = Stellantis


Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep.


This is not for the faint of heart.

 

[mustafur]

PSA + FCA = Stellantis


Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep.




This is not for the faint of heart.

+Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Maserati, Opel/Vauxhall and Lancia(or what is left of it).

 

[CTznOfTime]

+Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Maserati, Opel/Vauxhall and Lancia(or what is left of it).

I though Ferrari got out of that ? Or did I misunderstand ?


Wow that's even more POS than I realized...

 

[05XR8]

Alright, I'm saying it... That's a straight up Gran Theft Auto name.

 

[TheCracker]

I though Ferrari got out of that ? Or did I misunderstand ?


Wow that's even more POS than I realized...

They were, in 2016. They still had ties with Maserati, building some of their engines, but i think that arrangement has finished now.

 

[Keef]

My buddy at Chrysler's wind tunnel was talking about this yesterday. Like, what the hell. He and coworkers already decided they're definitely putting "Jeep" on their resume lol. They won't be caught dead putting Stellaris on it.

 

[CTznOfTime]

My buddy at Chrysler's wind tunnel was talking about this yesterday. Like, what the hell. He and coworkers already decided they're definitely putting "Jeep" on their resume lol. They won't be caught dead putting Stellaris on it.

Depends what they want to do with their resumes...

It could work either way.

The general population won't know about Stellantis until much later well past 2021, heck, not many people even know about PSA or even FCA.


Furthermore, Stellantis is just a new name for either FCA and PSA, and if you belong to one of the sub-companies, you can still use those, especially if you are proud to work for FIAT.

 

[GranTurNismo]

"Do not take Stellantis if you are pregnant or have a pre-existing heart condition. Side effects include nausea, headache, aversion to Fords, Chevys and Toyotas . . . Ask your doctor if Stellantis is right for you."

It really does sound like one of those prescription medications you see in those commercials aimed at old people.

 

[EngieDiesel]

10 (active) marques? Oof. That's pre-bankruptcy GM levels of bloat right there. I wouldn't be surprised at least one of them wind up on the chopping block within a year or two.

 

[GranTurNismo]

10 (active) marques? Oof. That's pre-bankruptcy GM levels of bloat right there. I wouldn't be surprised at least one of them wind up on the chopping block within a year or two.

Chrysler and Lancia will definitely be chopped.

 

[EngieDiesel]

Chrysler and Lancia will definitely be chopped.

Well, Lancia has been effectively dead for the last decade or so. Chrysler is still somewhat viable, if only because of the super aggressive cost saving measures that Sergio Marchionne put in place while bringing FCA back to profitability.

I want to say that Vauxhall/Opel would be the most likely to get cut just because of how much of a huge mess it was when GM sold it off to PSA, but I haven't kept up with how they've been handling it since then so I can't be sure of that at the moment.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Well, Lancia has been effectively dead for the last decade or so. Chrysler is still somewhat viable, if only because of the super aggressive cost saving measures that Sergio Marchionne put in place while bringing FCA back to profitability.

I want to say that Vauxhall/Opel would be the most likely to get cut just because of how much of a huge mess it was when GM sold it off to PSA, but I haven't kept up with how they've been handling it since then so I can't be sure of that at the moment.

I thought that the Lancia Ypsilon still sells decently in Italy despite it's age. After 2020 (being that the Chrysler 300 will be dropped) Chrysler will be down to one model, the Town N Country Pacifica. I just don't see how a brand could survive in the long haul with just one model, especially when neither brand has any plans for another model to be added to the lineup. It almost makes more sense to slap a Dodge badge on the Pacifica and call it a Caravan, since it's still relatively new and sells decently, and get rid of Chrysler altogether.

 

[EngieDiesel]

I thought that the Lancia Ypsilon still sells decently in Italy despite it's age. After 2020 (being that the Chrysler 300 will be dropped) Chrysler will be down to one model, the Town N Country Pacifica. I just don't see how a brand could survive in the long haul with just one model, especially when neither brand has any plans for another model to be added to the lineup. It almost makes more sense to slap a Dodge badge on the Pacifica and call it a Caravan, since it's still relatively new and sells decently, and get rid of Chrysler altogether.

Eh, thinking on it you could be right. I feel that whatever plans were going to happen for the Chrysler brand got thrown into chaos with Marchionne's passing, as a lot of other things did, and there may have been something in the works before the merger talks happened. But I guess we'll never know for sure about that now.

Either way, this proves to be interesting, most likely in the not-so-positive sense of the word.

 

[VXR]

No way Opel/Vauxhall will be cut as they've been turned round to profitability already and they're on PSA architecture throughout the range.

 

[c172fccc]

I thought that the Lancia Ypsilon still sells decently in Italy despite it's age. After 2020 (being that the Chrysler 300 will be dropped) Chrysler will be down to one model, the Town N Country Pacifica. I just don't see how a brand could survive in the long haul with just one model, especially when neither brand has any plans for another model to be added to the lineup. It almost makes more sense to slap a Dodge badge on the Pacifica and call it a Caravan, since it's still relatively new and sells decently, and get rid of Chrysler altogether.

I don't they will. In the US, the Chrysler version was always a lot more popular than the Dodge version. The funny thing is that in Canada, it was the other way around, so much that Chrysler just announced that the Voyager will be called Grand Caravan in Canada.

 

[Frank McGank]

Chrysler and Lancia will definitely be chopped.

There’s still a market for Chrysler if FCA could be arsed to try and turn it around like GM is attempting to do with Cadillac and FoMoCo is attempting to do with Lincoln. That is, give it more prestige and more of a luxury position for a more executive clientele. Is the nameplate of things like the Imperial and the New Yorker, after all. They don’t HAVE to be the ‘oddly styled Dodges’ they’ve been since the 90s.

No way Opel/Vauxhall will be cut as they've been turned round to profitability already and they're on PSA architecture throughout the range.

God GM really ran those two (and Holden) into the ground, didn’t they. How can you possibly make the 3rd best selling marque in Europe operate at a loss? How can you run them so poorly that even FRENCH management is an improvement?

 

[Northstar]

There’s still a market for Chrysler if FCA could be arsed to try and turn it around like GM is attempting to do with Cadillac and FoMoCo is attempting to do with Lincoln. That is, give it more prestige and more of a luxury position for a more executive clientele. Is the nameplate of things like the Imperial and the New Yorker, after all. They don’t HAVE to be the ‘oddly styled Dodges’ they’ve been since the 90s.

Isn't that what they are trying to do with Alfa though? Chrysler is the Buick of FCA, no matter what segment they try putting it into they already have a brand more established there.

God GM really ran those two (and Holden) into the ground, didn’t they. How can you possibly make the 3rd best selling marque in Europe operate at a loss? How can you run them so poorly that even FRENCH management is an improvement?

That seems to be a specialty of GM, they had a golden opportunity to make a legitimate Jeep competitor with Hummer and blew it by making overpriced land yachts and Pontiac could have been a Mazda style brand where there is an increased focus on sportiness instead of a lazy-rebadge brand with a couple Aussie imports.

 

[GranTurNismo]

There’s still a market for Chrysler if FCA could be arsed to try and turn it around like GM is attempting to do with Cadillac and FoMoCo is attempting to do with Lincoln. That is, give it more prestige and more of a luxury position for a more executive clientele. Is the nameplate of things like the Imperial and the New Yorker, after all. They don’t HAVE to be the ‘oddly styled Dodges’ they’ve been since the 90s.

In an ideal world, yes, Chrysler would be re-established as a true American luxury car marque. But that's just not feasible, not even remotely at the moment. FCA already has Maserati and Alfa Romeo; though they may not be American brands, that's the luxury arc of the corporation and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Plus, the Imperial and New Yorker nameplates have been gone long enough that they've been forgotten by most. I just don't see how the Chrysler brand is going to stay afloat in the near future, especially when FCA is more interested in making a 707hp variant of an SUV that dates back to 2011 then crafting a genuinely competent SUV/CUV that isn't a Jeep.

 

[Frank McGank]

Isn't that what they are trying to do with Alfa though? Chrysler is the Buick of FCA, no matter what segment they try putting it into they already have a brand more established there.



That seems to be a specialty of GM, they had a golden opportunity to make a legitimate Jeep competitor with Hummer and blew it by making overpriced land yachts and Pontiac could have been a Mazda style brand where there is an increased focus on sportiness instead of a lazy-rebadge brand with a couple Aussie imports.

Alfa is less about luxury and more about BMW-style performance and price with an Italian flair. There’s a certain level of prestige inherent in it, sure. But it’s not the priority. Something like Mercedes or Lexus where the emphasis is more on comfort than driving dymanics would do well for it.

It’s been a GM problem since the 60s at least. Historically all the different nameplates were because each marque only made one car. You’d buy a Chevrolet, or a Buick, or an Olds, or etc. and that was it. Didn’t become an issue until the 50s when each brand started to branch out into different trim/equipment levels and didn’t become acute until the 60s when each badge started to have 3-4 different cars and a dozen engines for each platform. For example, Pontiac was originally created in 1926 to be ‘Chevrolet but with a 6 cylinder engine’. GM could hobble the different marques along back when they all had different engines so there was strong brand loyalty and reason enough to keep them distinct, but once the consolidation happened, they were all on borrowed time. All stepping on each other’s toes. Only way to make them viable again would be to go back to the 1920s-1950s strategy of one car per brand. Basically walk into a GM dealership and buy a GM Chevrolet or a GM Buick or whatever. Good luck selling such a total upheaval just for nostalgia’s sake to the GM top brass, though.

@GranTurNismo like I said, Alfa (and Maserati) are more about luxury performance rather than straight luxury. FCA doesn’t have a dedicated purebred luxury marque, in the vein of Maybach or Rolls Royce or top end Lexii. Making Chrysler focused more on comfort and class rather than performance COULD fill a gap in the FCA brand portfolio, but it would require undoing nearly 40 years of brand mismanagement. (It’ll take a helluva marketing effort to convince people within living memory of the Sebring and LeBaron to drop $100,000+ on something with a Chrysler badge). But hey, they somehow are doing it with Alfa. If any auto conglomerate has the bollocks to do something that brave, FCA probably are it.

 

[Populuxe]

(It’ll take a helluva marketing effort to convince people within living memory of the Sebring and LeBaron to drop $100,000+ on something with a Chrysler badge)

This is true, but all it takes is the right car. And by car, I mean crossover. Because no one is buying passenger cars any more. But getting back on point, one high-level pure luxury vehicle that generates excitement and is not a cynical badge-engineered stop-gap could do the trick. The anti-Cimmaron.

Also, the Stellantis name stinks.