Ferrari 70th Anniversary Car Pack - Now Available on PC

[Nielsen]

It must be because I absolutely love aerodynamics, but I can't believe some people really think the SF70H is that ugly. To me it's an incredible machine and a thing of beauty. It's certainly better looking than the F138 or SF15T, though both of those are beautiful cars in their own ways. Each to their own I guess

The SF70H does have the best looking profile in many years but up close there are a handful of aero parts dragging it down, no pun intended.

The Tatuus is no problem for me, I like it. The Lotus Exos isn't a problem either. I was having issues with the F1s on Imola, they're just so fast and steering with a controller is a bit too quick. I had another go last night with both Ferraris and was putting in better laps, I might try dialling in the controller for smoother inputs. Still dream about that 641 though.

The modern F1 cars do indeed require very subtle steering inputs. It takes a bit of getting used to but definitely manageable with reasonable controller settings.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I'm the opposite, I hate excessive aerodynamics and believe it's had a damaging effect on racing. Cars can't follow each other due to dirty air, drivers don't have to lift or brake for a lot of turns which means there's far fewer chances for mistakes and overtaking, more debris on the track after a crash, drives costs up to the point it's crippling teams and series. Just look at how happy the IndyCar drivers are with the new body kit for next year which removes 2,000 lbs of downforce and also moves a lot of the aero to underneath the car. The last two years of IndyCar racing with the aero kits has been pretty dreadful and boring, lots and lots of parades because they just can't overtake. I mean, when you don't have to lift around an oval and everyone is driving the same basic car, how are they supposed to overtake or produce exciting racing? Next year's IndyCar season should be great and exciting, other series should take note and remove downforce so the drivers are back in control and skill plays a more important part.

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/...and-thats-good-says-servia-at-sebring-958058/

Just my opinion of course, we all like different things. F1 will continue to be a parade for the next three years, if you want on-track excitement tune into some IndyCar races next season and watch the drivers muscles those cars around. 👍

Ok, first: If you want close, exciting racing, watch tin tops. Indycar is dull. Sure, the racing is sometimes close, but that's true of every spec series, and isn't something special to Indycar. Indycars are old, uninteresting, technologically decades behind the times, and the circuits they race on are mostly awful. Watch Supercars if you want close racing that is also exciting. Or watch F2 is you want close spec open wheel racing on good circuits with young up and coming superstars and not old has beens.

Indycar has been crap for a bunch of years now, and removing a heap of the downforce isn't going to make it better, it'll just make it slower. This year's Indycars are very close in ultimate lap time to the 2006 Champ Cars, which raced at a common circuit to F1 that year: The Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, which gives us a direct comparison. In 2006, the fastest Champ Car was 5.3 seconds slower than the fastest 2006 F1 car. Since this year's Indycars were setting pole laps within a couple of tenths of the old 2006 Champ Cars at the same circuits, we can safely say a current Indycar is over 5 seconds per lap slower than an 11 year old F1 car. This year's F1 pole time was 3.3 seconds faster than the 2006 pole, which means current Indycars would lap the Circuit GV close to 9 seconds per lap slower than current F1 cars.

Consider that this year is the first in a new formula for F1 which opened up a lot of avenues for development, and I'd be willing to bet F1 cars of 2018 will be at least 2 - 3 seconds per lap faster than this year's, while Indycars will be a few seconds per lap slower next year than they were this year, and we'll see a situation unfold where next year's Indycars will be approximately 13 - 15 seconds per lap slower than F1. That will put it squarely behind F2, LMP1, and Super Formula.

But more importantly, underfloor aero, contrary to popular belief among fans, is just as badly influenced by turbulence as wings are, so excuse me if I roll my eyes a little whenever I see someone claim that "ground effects" will solve everything. The fact of the matter, and one which many people don't know, is a Formula 1 car produces close to 80% of it's downforce from ground effect devices. A whopping 50%+ of the total downforce of an F1 car is produced by the floor and diffuser, with almost 30% being produced by the front wing. Both of those parts are ground effect devices, yet look at how much downforce an F1 car loses in turbulent air. Removing some downforce simply means you have less total downforce, so the net loss is less. But if you still have wings and venturis, which next year's Indycar has, then you are still driving a car which is at it's fastest in clean air, and will lose cornering performance in turbulent air. Even GP3 cars lose performance in dirty air, and they produce bugger all downforce.

As I said: I follow F1 for the technology and the innovation. I don't buy the argument that F1 needs to reduce the downforce to improve the racing, since they dramatically reduced downforce in 2014, and we saw one of the most boring seasons ever. F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of racing, the fastest, most advanced machines for pure speed. If I want to watch close races I'll watch F2, GP3, SF, Supercars, or any of the other many close spec series there are in the world. Indycar isn't a lot more interesting to me than NASCAR, the thought of which almost puts me to sleep.

Lastly, this point: "I mean, when you don't have to lift around an oval and everyone is driving the same basic car, how are they supposed to overtake or produce exciting racing?" is going to apply equally to next year's Indycar as well, since the oval spec cars have their wings trimmed to almost nothing already, so nothing will change on those circuits.

 

[BrandonW77]

Ok, first: If you want close, exciting racing, watch tin tops. Indycar is dull. Sure, the racing is sometimes close, but that's true of every spec series, and isn't something special to Indycar. Indycars are old, uninteresting, technologically decades behind the times, and the circuits they race on are mostly awful. Watch Supercars if you want close racing that is also exciting. Or watch F2 is you want close spec open wheel racing on good circuits with young up and coming superstars and not old has beens.

Indycar has been crap for a bunch of years now, and removing a heap of the downforce isn't going to make it better, it'll just make it slower. This year's Indycars are very close in ultimate lap time to the 2006 Champ Cars, which raced at a common circuit to F1 that year: The Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, which gives us a direct comparison. In 2006, the fastest Champ Car was 5.3 seconds slower than the fastest 2006 F1 car. Since this year's Indycars were setting pole laps within a couple of tenths of the old 2006 Champ Cars at the same circuits, we can safely say a current Indycar is over 5 seconds per lap slower than an 11 year old F1 car. This year's F1 pole time was 3.3 seconds faster than the 2006 pole, which means current Indycars would lap the Circuit GV close to 9 seconds per lap slower than current F1 cars.

Consider that this year is the first in a new formula for F1 which opened up a lot of avenues for development, and I'd be willing to bet F1 cars of 2018 will be at least 2 - 3 seconds per lap faster than this year's, while Indycars will be a few seconds per lap slower next year than they were this year, and we'll see a situation unfold where next year's Indycars will be approximately 13 - 15 seconds per lap slower than F1. That will put it squarely behind F2, LMP1, and Super Formula.

But more importantly, underfloor aero, contrary to popular belief among fans, is just as badly influenced by turbulence as wings are, so excuse me if I roll my eyes a little whenever I see someone claim that "ground effects" will solve everything. The fact of the matter, and one which many people don't know, is a Formula 1 car produces close to 80% of it's downforce from ground effect devices. A whopping 50%+ of the total downforce of an F1 car is produced by the floor and diffuser, with almost 30% being produced by the front wing. Both of those parts are ground effect devices, yet look at how much downforce an F1 car loses in turbulent air. Removing some downforce simply means you have less total downforce, so the net loss is less. But if you still have wings and venturis, which next year's Indycar has, then you are still driving a car which is at it's fastest in clean air, and will lose cornering performance in turbulent air. Even GP3 cars lose performance in dirty air, and they produce bugger all downforce.

As I said: I follow F1 for the technology and the innovation. I don't buy the argument that F1 needs to reduce the downforce to improve the racing, since they dramatically reduced downforce in 2014, and we saw one of the most boring seasons ever. F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of racing, the fastest, most advanced machines for pure speed. If I want to watch close races I'll watch F2, GP3, SF, Supercars, or any of the other many close spec series there are in the world. Indycar isn't a lot more interesting to me than NASCAR, the thought of which almost puts me to sleep.

Lastly, this point: "I mean, when you don't have to lift around an oval and everyone is driving the same basic car, how are they supposed to overtake or produce exciting racing?" is going to apply equally to next year's Indycar as well, since the oval spec cars have their wings trimmed to almost nothing already, so nothing will change on those circuits.

See, that's where we differ. I don't give a rat's ass about top speed or lap times, I care about close racing and hard battles. Is a 200mph parade more exciting than a 180mph parade? Not in my opinion. I've watched every IndyCar and F1 race for at least the last 10 years, if not 20, attended several of each in person, and far more times than not I find IndyCar races more entertaining than F1 races (even though F1 is and always will be my religion). The current F1 season is the worst and most boring one I can remember, there have been several races where P2 was mounting a serious charge and had plenty of time to catch P1 but he got within 5 car lengths and that was that, it was a parade for the rest of the race. If you want to see racing in F1 you have to watch the mid-pack. Even the drivers said before the season started that there was going to be far less overtaking this year due to the increased aero. How many on-track passes have we seen for the lead in F1 this year? You could probably count them on one hand. In IndyCar there was probably more on-track passes for the lead this season than in the last five seasons of F1 combined. I love F1 for the circus and soap opera but the races are freaking dull and just keep getting more boring. Hopefully Ross Brawn will fix that, he seems to want to and even says "So I think we should embrace aerodynamics, but in a different way. We should work out how we can make the aerodynamics as benign as possible so cars can still race each other.". Even Max Mosley says adding more aero this year was the wrong direction, and he knows a thing or two. Same with Rick Mears who also knows a thing or two and has repeatedly said the cars need more power and less aero.

As for next year's IndyCar, have you read any of the articles about the testing of the new bodywork? Every driver says the same thing, it's easier to follow, easier to overtake, faster top speeds, longer braking zones, and twitchy in the corners. That's a recipe for better racing, faster down the straights, more braking for the turns, less planted to the track, less affected by dirty air. Just read for yourself with the drivers saying things like

"I do like the longer brake zones. If you can build a better setup, there's more ability to overtake. It's opened up the brake zone to where you can fight for more depth and beat people."

"...now it's like going back to basics. You're going faster at the end of the straights, your braking zones are that little bit longer again, the cornering speeds are a little bit lower, but it feels like an Indy car."

"For sure it's going to be easier to make mistakes. You don't have the downforce to band-aid a handling imbalance of flat-out a mistake on the driver side, so it's going to place more emphasis on us."

Putting more emphasis on driver skill instead of car performance? Yes please, I'll take lots of that. Just my opinion, we all like and want different things but I'm quite positive I'll enjoy the racing in IndyCar a lot more than F1 for the next few years. F1 will always remain my true love, but IndyCar will be my feisty side piece that provides me with the excitement missing with my main love.

 

[pretend racer]

"I do like the longer brake zones. If you can build a better setup, there's more ability to overtake. It's opened up the brake zone to where you can fight for more depth and beat people."

"...now it's like going back to basics. You're going faster at the end of the straights, your braking zones are that little bit longer again, the cornering speeds are a little bit lower, but it feels like an Indy car."

"For sure it's going to be easier to make mistakes. You don't have the downforce to band-aid a handling imbalance of flat-out a mistake on the driver side, so it's going to place more emphasis on us."

Putting more emphasis on driver skill instead of car performance? Yes please, I'll take lots of that. Just my opinion, we all like and want different things but I'm quite positive I'll enjoy the racing in IndyCar a lot more than F1 for the next few years.

I read these quotes and thought that's exactly why I prefer to drive and race Street cars on street tires in AC (on the Street Fight servers ac-sf.net).

It somehow requires a different set of skills to be able to drive street cars fast vs race cars. Im much closer to the alien laptimes in street cars than race cars. When I drive race cars I have hard time actually pushing the car to its full potential, the aero downforce messes with my ability to sense how much mechanical grip the tires actually have.

When people who generally drive race cars come onto the street fight server I see more than a few comment on how 'tricky' street tires are, and that they need to adjust their driving style to the "lack of grip".

The most exciting, consistent, close, and rewarding racing comes from mastering mechanical grip. The more aero grip that is added simply makes the overall laptimes quicker, but it also seems that the more aero grip a racing series has, it will have less passing. So less aero grip = more passing.

Case in point, this is one of my closest and most exciting races I have ever had at 92% attack rate.

 

[BrandonW77]

I read these quotes and thought that's exactly why I prefer to drive and race Street cars on street tires in AC (on the Street Fight servers ac-sf.net).

It somehow requires a different set of skills to be able to drive street cars fast vs race cars. Im much closer to the alien laptimes in street cars than race cars. When I drive race cars I have hard time actually pushing the car to its full potential, the aero downforce messes with my ability to sense how much mechanical grip the tires actually have.

When people who generally drive race cars come onto the street fight server I see more than a few comment on how 'tricky' street tires are, and that they need to adjust their driving style to the "lack of grip".

The most exciting, consistent, close, and rewarding racing comes from mastering mechanical grip. The more aero grip that is added simply makes the overall laptimes quicker, but it also seems that the more aero grip a racing series has, it will have less passing. So less aero grip = more passing.

Case in point, this is one of my closest and most exciting races I have ever had at 92% attack rate.

Yep, and IndyCar is a good example. When they first brought on the DW12 chassis it didn't have a lot of aero and the racing was fantastic, lots of close battles and passing throughout the season. Then in 2015 they introduced aero kits which put wings/winglets all over the body and suddenly overtaking was quite reduced on every track except Indy. Instead of improving the product we got a Formula 1 style parade, increased costs, a bigger gap between the two manufacturers, and more debris on the track (just like the fans predicted). Michael Andretti says they were a waste of money and he's happy to toss the aero kits in the dumpster. Myself and a lot of other fans agree with Michael.

 

[Mike_grpA]

See, that's where we differ. I don't give a rat's ass about top speed or lap times, I care about close racing and hard battles. Is a 200mph parade more exciting than a 180mph parade? Not in my opinion. I've watched every IndyCar and F1 race for at least the last 10 years, if not 20, attended several of each in person, and far more times than not I find IndyCar races more entertaining than F1 races (even though F1 is and always will be my religion). The current F1 season is the worst and most boring one I can remember, there have been several races where P2 was mounting a serious charge and had plenty of time to catch P1 but he got within 5 car lengths and that was that, it was a parade for the rest of the race. If you want to see racing in F1 you have to watch the mid-pack. Even the drivers said before the season started that there was going to be far less overtaking this year due to the increased aero. How many on-track passes have we seen for the lead in F1 this year? You could probably count them on one hand. In IndyCar there was probably more on-track passes for the lead this season than in the last five seasons of F1 combined. I love F1 for the circus and soap opera but the races are freaking dull and just keep getting more boring. Hopefully Ross Brawn will fix that, he seems to want to and even says "So I think we should embrace aerodynamics, but in a different way. We should work out how we can make the aerodynamics as benign as possible so cars can still race each other.". Even Max Mosley says adding more aero this year was the wrong direction, and he knows a thing or two. Same with Rick Mears who also knows a thing or two and has repeatedly said the cars need more power and less aero.

As for next year's IndyCar, have you read any of the articles about the testing of the new bodywork? Every driver says the same thing, it's easier to follow, easier to overtake, faster top speeds, longer braking zones, and twitchy in the corners. That's a recipe for better racing, faster down the straights, more braking for the turns, less planted to the track, less affected by dirty air. Just read for yourself with the drivers saying things like

"I do like the longer brake zones. If you can build a better setup, there's more ability to overtake. It's opened up the brake zone to where you can fight for more depth and beat people."

"...now it's like going back to basics. You're going faster at the end of the straights, your braking zones are that little bit longer again, the cornering speeds are a little bit lower, but it feels like an Indy car."

"For sure it's going to be easier to make mistakes. You don't have the downforce to band-aid a handling imbalance of flat-out a mistake on the driver side, so it's going to place more emphasis on us."

Putting more emphasis on driver skill instead of car performance? Yes please, I'll take lots of that. Just my opinion, we all like and want different things but I'm quite positive I'll enjoy the racing in IndyCar a lot more than F1 for the next few years. F1 will always remain my true love, but IndyCar will be my feisty side piece that provides me with the excitement missing with my main love.

I think either you didn't read my post, or you missed it's point entirely. There's way better spec racing than Indycar, so I'm already spoilt for choice on that front. I don't watch F1 for the same reason I watch F2, for example. I don't watch F1 for the same reason I watch the WRC, or Supercars, or WEC. I watch them all for different reasons. Indycar is alright sometimes, but most of the races are increibly dull to me, mostly because the cars are in no way interesting, there's only about 3 good tracks they race on per year, the rest are crap, and most of the drivers are either old has beens, or drivers who failed to make it in F1 and other series. So because I don't care about any of the drivers, don't like most of the circuits, and don't find the cars interesting at all, and in fact find the DW12 to be one of the ugliest race cars of all time, Indycar just doesn't do it for me at all. They could have 1000 lead changes per race and I honestly wouldn't care.

F1 is interesting to me because of the technology and the engineering. You obviously aren't into engineering, and that's fine, so F1 doesn't appeal to you.

As I've said multiple times already: Each to their own.

 

[isamu]

Ok barring the modern F1 cars I've had a go in all of them on that new Goodwood, the cars drives great....250GTO is just fantastic to slide around, so is the 312/67. This pack is pretty great...

Can you drift the 312 around like you can in GPL?

 

[RacingManiac]

I've never actually played GPL with a wheel so I have no idea.....its pretty slidey in AC though...

 

[R3V]

I find it impossible to put in fast laps in the modern F1 cars, or anywhere close to a fast lap. I recon I'm at least 15-20 seconds off from a half decent lap time. I have no such problems with the older F1s, hence why its sad to me that the SF70H won out over the 641.

That's because of the controller, maybe. The only game where fast cars are driveable with a controller is Gran Turismo.

It is such a shame because driving the 2004 F1 car without traction control is the absolute most fun thing I have ever done in sim racing. I wish we had more cars from the V10 era.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I think either you didn't read my post, or you missed it's point entirely. There's way better spec racing than Indycar, so I'm already spoilt for choice on that front. I don't watch F1 for the same reason I watch F2, for example. I don't watch F1 for the same reason I watch the WRC, or Supercars, or WEC. I watch them all for different reasons. Indycar is alright sometimes, but most of the races are increibly dull to me, mostly because the cars are in no way interesting, there's only about 3 good tracks they race on per year, the rest are crap, and most of the drivers are either old has beens, or drivers who failed to make it in F1 and other series. So because I don't care about any of the drivers, don't like most of the circuits, and don't find the cars interesting at all, and in fact find the DW12 to be one of the ugliest race cars of all time, Indycar just doesn't do it for me at all. They could have 1000 lead changes per race and I honestly wouldn't care.

F1 is interesting to me because of the technology and the engineering. You obviously aren't into engineering, and that's fine, so F1 doesn't appeal to you.

As I've said multiple times already: Each to their own.

Brandon is a huge F1 fan. I am too, but F1 racing has been boring for years. Also agree indy cars are fugly.

Can you drift the 312 around like you can in GPL?

I've never actually played GPL with a wheel so I have no idea.....its pretty slidey in AC though...

Jackie Stewart said GPL was way harder than the real thing.

That's because of the controller, maybe. The only game where fast cars are driveable with a controller is Gran Turismo.

It is such a shame because driving the 2004 F1 car without traction control is the absolute most fun thing I have ever done in sim racing. I wish we had more cars from the V10 era.

I'm not sure that's strictly the issue, I can control the car but there is no way I can do consistent laps lap after lap ( unless I dr9ve really slow). I can with the lotus Exos and any other F1. I have got better after a bit more practice, but it's too much effort and hard to maintain or create any immersion. I think I have found a possible reason though as to why I struggle with this and not the other F1s, the latest F1s seam to have a longer wheel base and maybe narrower. So I'm not expecting problems with the F2004.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I agree with most people here, I'm kinda disappointed that the SF70-H won (although that's almost a given since F1 is by FAR the most popular and watched motorsports in the world, and online polls will naturally be biased to younger fans). I'm an F1 fan but there is already the RSS Formula Hybrid substitute. There are plenty of other more interesting and rare cars on that poll that could've won. Anyway, I hope Kunos still keeps the poll results and brings a Ferrari Pack 2 & 3 sometime down the line. If they did it with Porsche, why not Ferrari?

My short reviews of each car, in the order that I drive them (I always drive DLC cars from low grip to high grip, otherwise my perception of the older cars will be skewed after driving the modern cars):

250 GTO - so hard to drive this thing. Slides everywhere and you have to be really careful with the throttle. I'd say it's even harder than the bicycle tyre Maserati 250F, and that's saying something That's what makes it fun though and that sound is godly (youtube Petrolicious 250 GTO and you'll know what I mean).

312/67 - very hyperactive car this, but slightly easier to handle than the GTO. You still need to be patient with the throttle, but you can throw around the steering a lot more. So agile and light it's like a Caterham on steroids. Compared to this the Lotus 49 feels like a boat even. Probably my favourite car of the whole pack 👍

288 GTO - I've already tried a mod 288 GTO before, and I'm quite surprised how close that feels to the official version. Drives exactly like how I imagined it would. Can hold some really nice slides but a bit annoying if you want to go fast. Who cares though, with a set of sunglasses and 80's 'stache you have the most badass look in town

330 P4 - surprisingly stable and not as fast in a straight as I imagined. My point of reference is the 917 and this feels much more sedate compared to that. You would've thought aerodynamics wasn't that good back then but this feels too glued to the road.

812 Superfast - I know for a lot of people this is the 2nd most hated car in the pack after the SF70-H, but I personally love the 812 as soon as I saw its first pictures a few months ago. Modern Ferraris either look too soft or too tacky, but with the 812 I think they've struck a great medium. The name is as silly as the Ferrari TheFerrari, but it has historical significance so I can overlook that. Also, this is probably the last ever road going Ferrari with a pure NA V12, so enjoy it while it lasts. Driving performance is sublime for such a big car, it doesn't feel like a GT at all and I imagine can easily keep up with a 488 GTB. What surprised me most is the brakes though. Stops on a dime despite the weight.

F2004 - ah...the F2004. What can I say? I grew up idolising MSC and this is the magnum opus of that era. Fastest F1 car ever until this year (probably still faster if you give it slicks of similar width + DRS on straights). V10 scream is the soundtrack of many many of my childhood Sundays. Would've been my favourite car, but I have driven the ASR mod version before so it kinda takes away the shine a bit. Surprisingly the mod version drives pretty much identical to the Kunos version (only 0.5 sec difference around Silverstone for me), but the gearshift lights on the steering wheel is more accurate on the Kunos car. I still keep the ASR version because of the Marlboro livery though

SF70-H - everyone's kryptonite it seems, but it's here so might as well drive it. I'm mostly interested in how this compares to the RSS Formula Hybrid and the answer is...not well 👎 Low speed handling is ok, but at high speed corners it ALWAYS snap oversteers for no reason. I've tried increasing rear downforce, softening the rears, etc. I doubt the real car does that so it must be the base setting that is wrong and I don't have the patience to fix it when another option is already available. Downshift and off throttle sounds are also less detailed than the RSS (you don't hear the hybrid systems charging). The only good thing is upshift sounds are a perfect match to the real thing. If you watch onboards of the real car you can hear a short squeal/spinning sound during upshifts. I think it must be the torque fill from the hybrid system - only the SF70-H does that on this year's cars and it's very characteristic - good job from Kunos for getting that detail right 👍

All in all a pretty decent pack. Just needs a Part 2 & 3. You listening Kunos?

 

[R3V]

I doubt the real car does that

Been a prominent feature of all 2017 cars. It's the fat tyre syndrome.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Been a prominent feature of all 2017 cars. It's the fat tyre syndrome.

Any tips setting wise to remedy it? Because at the moment I don't trust this car in ANY high speed turns at all.

 

[R3V]

Any tips setting wise to remedy it? Because at the moment I don't trust this car in ANY high speed turns at all.

I didn't drive it enough to be able work around it completely. Tbh I didn't find it that bad. After a few laps at RBR, Brands Hatch and Spa I was able to predict when it's coming. Do you have videos of it happening?

 

[RacingManiac]

Jackie Stewart said GPL was way harder than the real thing.

Doug Milliken(of Milliken research http://www.millikenresearch.com/, and people who literally wrote the book on race car vehicle dynamics http://books.sae.org/r-146/) said when he initially supplied tire data to Papyrus, the data had some mistakes in them and that the tire model was extremely unforgiving. And that made the game drive the way it did....

 

[Kurei]

I'm a bit behind here, but @LeGeNd-1 what tire compounds have you tried? I've been having issues trusting the car at full-tilt as well, it's as if we can't drive them to the limit of adhesion like we see in the races. I've tried different compounds but am starting to suspect the issue/imbalance lies in the vehicle's hybrid-settings, and I wish we had differential-settings to play with as well (its on the wheel Kunos, c'mon now).

I only got to play briefly earlier today, but adjusting the engine-braking (Ctrl+4) seemed to adjust the balance to some degree, going to play with it some more tomorrow and see if I can figure out something.

 

[unv412]

I read these quotes and thought that's exactly why I prefer to drive and race Street cars on street tires in AC (on the Street Fight servers ac-sf.net).

It somehow requires a different set of skills to be able to drive street cars fast vs race cars. Im much closer to the alien laptimes in street cars than race cars. When I drive race cars I have hard time actually pushing the car to its full potential, the aero downforce messes with my ability to sense how much mechanical grip the tires actually have.

When people who generally drive race cars come onto the street fight server I see more than a few comment on how 'tricky' street tires are, and that they need to adjust their driving style to the "lack of grip".

The most exciting, consistent, close, and rewarding racing comes from mastering mechanical grip. The more aero grip that is added simply makes the overall laptimes quicker, but it also seems that the more aero grip a racing series has, it will have less passing. So less aero grip = more passing.

Case in point, this is one of my closest and most exciting races I have ever had at 92% attack rate.

I totally agree with you on the streetcar/road tires thing........i dont have the time to tune cars and all that, and to just jump in and race a standard car off the bat ,takes alot of skill as you have to drive around its bad handling traits.

Factor in tyres that seem to overheat more rapidly and the weight transfer from heavy and undersprung road cars....and you have a recipe for disaster around ever corner.

Ill have to visit these servers one day , (dependent on the ping as i'm in Australia)....great racing!

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Doug Milliken(of Milliken research http://www.millikenresearch.com/, and people who literally wrote the book on race car vehicle dynamics http://books.sae.org/r-146/) said when he initially supplied tire data to Papyrus, the data had some mistakes in them and that the tire model was extremely unforgiving. And that made the game drive the way it did....

GPL is hard because of a combination of factors:
- 1967 GP cars are difficult to drive for a start
- Old game which means physics and FFB tech isn't as detailed as it is currently (and/or mistakes as you said above)
- The default setups are atrocious and completely unrealistic for these cars. Mostly they are too stiff (which makes a huge difference in these cars as they rely only on mechanical grip and have ZERO aero grip) and the differential settings are too sensitive under power (disaster waiting to happen with 400 HP and 60's tyres).

Once you change the settings to something more reasonable and get used to the FFB, and learn to be patient with throttle and smooth with steering, it's more than playable. Still brutal if you make a mistake, but not the undrivable death traps it's famous for. Obviously due to limitations of old tech it still won't be as good or natural as AC.

I'm a bit behind here, but @LeGeNd-1 what tire compounds have you tried? I've been having issues trusting the car at full-tilt as well, it's as if we can't drive them to the limit of adhesion like we see in the races. I've tried different compounds but am starting to suspect the issue/imbalance lies in the vehicle's hybrid-settings, and I wish we had differential-settings to play with as well (its on the wheel Kunos, c'mon now).

I only got to play briefly earlier today, but adjusting the engine-braking (Ctrl+4) seemed to adjust the balance to some degree, going to play with it some more tomorrow and see if I can figure out something.

I've tried Ultrasoft, Soft and Hard. They all have the problem (Soft seems to be the best middle ground). It's a weird oversteer because the rear end of the car just wants to break away on the exit of high speed corners. Go to Silverstone - the exit of Woodcote and the last corner is the worst. I'm keeping constant throttle and unwinding the steering, and the rear end just snaps. Logically with downforce building up and weight transfer to the rear under acceleration you would not expect this to happen. It's not wheelspin either because I've tried shortshifting and it makes no difference.

I've tried softening the rears which makes things worse. Then I tried the opposite by stiffening the rears (something I learned from GT6 - all MR race cars tend to have this weird mid corner snap oversteer as well - turns out the rear end is bottoming out!) and it improves slightly. Now it's more a progressive slide rather than a violent snap. But it still doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I really doubt the real cars are like this - I'm not as good as Vettel and Kimi but I know a nervous car when I see it, and the real life SF70-H is pretty darn stable.

I don't think it's the engine braking setting, that would be more for corner entry instability. My money is on the missing differential settings as you said. I bet the Power setting is too high. Such a glaring omission - either Kunos didn't finish the physics in time or Ferrari don't want the data to be shared publicly before this season ends.

Anyway, my SF70-H will be gathering dust until this is fixed. The F2004 is better anyway

 

[sejtur]

Am I missing something or the Ferrari pack doesn't show up in the PSN store? (netherlands) I don't get it.

 

[Kurei]

@LeGeNd-1, Ok now I know we're experiencing the same issue, same track and corners too.

I've found Supersoft to be a good middle-ground, and I've done Ultra, Super & Softs (I usually tune on a lower-grip tire as to not let the extra-grip hide issues). However I do suspect it's somewhat down to wheelspin - not from our right foot on the throttle, but from the hybrid system side and the way it 'kicks-in' and provides torque through the rpm-band depending on what settings/mode are used. Have you tried adjusting those any to get a reaction? I've set it to 'charge' and that helps eliminate a fair amount - at the cost of a lot of speed. (I have yet to fiddle with other modes/settings)

I get what you mean from adjusting the rear stiffness, another thing I'm going to try are some dampner-adjustments and see what that does, but it is a shame we don't - for whatever reason - have differential settings, as that'd help eliminate a lot of guess work and allow us to better refine the darn thing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ferrari omitting it - "Oh no!, you can't let them know we use a 20% default of a value the spies would have to crack AC open for and search numerous strings of text to find" (It's the same story with the SF15T - 'something' still doesn't feel right about it either)

Agreed on the F2004, much simpler (and pretty ) - if you want another 'Ferrari' to thrash around in, grab the Williams FW31 mod and use the Ferrari-skin. 👍

 

[lancia delta hf]

Am I missing something or the Ferrari pack doesn't show up in the PSN store? (netherlands) I don't get it.

Isn't out on console yet. It's in submission. Wonder if will get wind adjustment too.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

@LeGeNd-1, Ok now I know we're experiencing the same issue, same track and corners too.

I've found Supersoft to be a good middle-ground, and I've done Ultra, Super & Softs (I usually tune on a lower-grip tire as to not let the extra-grip hide issues). However I do suspect it's somewhat down to wheelspin - not from our right foot on the throttle, but from the hybrid system side and the way it 'kicks-in' and provides torque through the rpm-band depending on what settings/mode are used. Have you tried adjusting those any to get a reaction? I've set it to 'charge' and that helps eliminate a fair amount - at the cost of a lot of speed. (I have yet to fiddle with other modes/settings)

I get what you mean from adjusting the rear stiffness, another thing I'm going to try are some dampner-adjustments and see what that does, but it is a shame we don't - for whatever reason - have differential settings, as that'd help eliminate a lot of guess work and allow us to better refine the darn thing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ferrari omitting it - "Oh no!, you can't let them know we use a 20% default of a value the spies would have to crack AC open for and search numerous strings of text to find" (It's the same story with the SF15T - 'something' still doesn't feel right about it either)

Agreed on the F2004, much simpler (and pretty ) - if you want another 'Ferrari' to thrash around in, grab the Williams FW31 mod and use the Ferrari-skin. 👍

Good to know I'm not the only one I'm far from the fastest driver out there, but I can generally adapt pretty quickly to bad handling traits. The SF70-H just feels wrong however. I give up trying to fix it until differential settings get unlocked. I have the hybrid settings in default (Balanced Low I believe and MGU-H to charge as well), I don't think that's the issue because the deployment bar in the tach is nowhere near full when this happens.

I tried damper/ARB/tyre pressure/camber/toe as well. None of them really cures the issue, just makes the oversteer less "snappy". But I still have to tiptoe around those two corners. Annoying, and completely ruins my enjoyment of this car. I'm tempted to open the physics files but I don't have much experience with the hardcore stuff so I'm afraid I'll just make it worse

 

[MIKEYJ73]

Good to know I'm not the only one I'm far from the fastest driver out there, but I can generally adapt pretty quickly to bad handling traits. The SF70-H just feels wrong however. I give up trying to fix it until differential settings get unlocked. I have the hybrid settings in default (Balanced Low I believe and MGU-H to charge as well), I don't think that's the issue because the deployment bar in the tach is nowhere near full when this happens.

I tried damper/ARB/tyre pressure/camber/toe as well. None of them really cures the issue, just makes the oversteer less "snappy". But I still have to tiptoe around those two corners. Annoying, and completely ruins my enjoyment of this car. I'm tempted to open the physics files but I don't have much experience with the hardcore stuff so I'm afraid I'll just make it worse

Hi chaps, with regards to the bottoming out issue. I have noticed that the real car appears to run quite a high rake setting from front to rear, much like the Red Bull car. So the rear of the car appears higher than the front.

What is the default ride height in AC and can it be adjusted? [not got the pack yet, am on PS4]. If this can be adjusted it would be worth a try.

 

[Kurei]

It can be adjusted, but I'm not sure what the default value is off the tip of my head.

I do know what 'rake' I ran when I last drove it, front height of 40mm and a rear of 80mm - if I'm remembering the right value, which basically gives the rear double the ground clearance and thus 'rake'. This combined with softer rear dampners helps, but as @LeGeNd-1 says it's more a band-aid fix than anything.

If we could get some info from Ferrari about how much rake they run and at what heights, I'd love to plug that into a setup & try it. 👍

Anyone got the # to Maranello?

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Hi chaps, with regards to the bottoming out issue. I have noticed that the real car appears to run quite a high rake setting from front to rear, much like the Red Bull car. So the rear of the car appears higher than the front.

What is the default ride height in AC and can it be adjusted? [not got the pack yet, am on PS4]. If this can be adjusted it would be worth a try.

The default setting is already raked to the rear. As Kurei said, it's around 45mm front and 90mm rear if I remember correctly. I tried increasing the rear height by 10mm which helps a bit, but any more and it risks compromising the low speed handling.

I find Kunos' setting screens to be quite odd as well - they never use the actual numbers in the settings values and you have to look at the live screen to know how much the adjustment is making a difference. Also the adjustment increments for front and rear goes up/down by different values. For the stuff that's presented in the live screen you can tell how much difference it makes, but for others (like aero) you don't know if increasing +1 front downforce is equivalent to increasing +1 rear downforce.

 

[RacingManiac]

After a couple of weeks of playing, I am still always enjoying whatever time I spent driving the F2004. The sound of the V10 era car was just great, and the car is just so rewarding to push.